It's funny how easily we get spoiled, but it's also cool that this hobby is so inclusive. From guys with entry level belt/gear driven wheels and pedals with rubber or foam resistance playing on a single screen to guys with extruded aluminum cockpits, DD wheels, hydraulic pedals and VR/triples. And we can all compete on a level playing field from the other side of the world. Pretty cool time to be alive.
@@VanniX_Mech g923 is the only wheel i have ever had so i dont know about others but tbh, imo it's decent wheel. Just dont set up FFB too high so it wont make a machine gun sound.
It will be. I have a G920 and ordered the regular pack. And gonna enjoy the massive upgrade to a dd wheelbase with more than double the torque I'm used to and gonna upgrade later on and enjoy a second massive upgrade. And for sure there gonna be much cheeper DIY 'boostkits' on the aftermarket.
@@MrMikap74 Just to warn you, Fanatec themselves said if you use any other power supply apart from their own one it might cause alot of damage to your wheel and your warranty will stop or something if im not wrong
Yeah, my Thrustmaster TX base is crapping out so I ordered this base (no boost). From what I've seen in all the reviews I've watched I think Im going to be quite happy.
I was talking to my wife about how much I want to get this. And she thought I was talking about the car(iracing f3)...What can I say, just love this women so much! Haha
As a CSL Elite owner, $700 USD for a slight upgrade doesn't seem worth it to me. I'd be better off just saving up to the $1,000 USD level and buying a full DD experience from somewhere else. Maybe even a DD1 at it's price would be more worth it for me. But for a Logitech or entry level Thrustmaster user, this is leaps and bounds better than any option at the price point. Especially if you are just looking at the wheelbase and wheel to pair with a pedal set you already have. And to sim noobs who think a DD wheel is necessary, there are guys dominating iRacing with old G27's. And Jarno Opmeer used a CSL Elite to set world record times in F1 2020. A sick setup is nice, but it won't turn you into an Esports Champion overnight. It's nice but not necessary.
I will echoe your sentiments exactly. I went from a G29 to the CSL Elite. Whilst it provides a much better experience it is no silver bullet to improving lap times. I very much doubt this new setup stands out much - if at all - over the Elite.
I agree. I am looking at upgrading, but I can tandem way better on my ancient G27 I've had since 2010 than some people can on direct drives. If you suck on a bad wheel, you're still going to suck on a good one haha.
What?!?!? Damn, glad I saw your comment. My ADHD ass was about to impulse order to upgrade my CSL elite. You just saved me some moneys. If we ever meet, I will buy you a beer, good sir!
I got mine yesterday and I was excited like a small kid at X-mas time, but after three hours with it I am honestly dissapointed. It is noticably weaker than my CLS Elite PS/4, even with the boost kit. If I press FFB test button in the Fanatec configuration software with the CLS ELite, it shakes the wheel so violently that I need two hands to hold it and I am litterally worried it will damage itself. But with the CLS DD I can easily hold the wheel with one hand when set to 100%. It feels like 50% of the CLS Elite. As for driving it the CLS DD feels slightly more precise and refined, but the overall feeling does not in any way impress me. Only thing is the absence of the FFB deadzone on the CLS Elite near the top position. That's nice. But on the other hand I get so much more power from the Elite that I litteraly have to fight the wheel when set to max FFB. I'll give anothe try today but if I cant get more power out of it, it's going back.
the most effective concise comparison ive seen. thanks.i agree with you btw. CSL elite is a MUST upgrade from logitech g920 and the equivalent lines from them and thrustmaster. however, the csl elite to the entry DD from fanatec is like you said, dissapointing. its a superior FF delivery system but the CSL elite is a full level better imo if you can drown out the noise it makes with headphones. more powerfull and more detailed imo. if you go to the next level DD then its worth the upgrade.
Thanks a lot for the review. This is exactly the video I needed to take my decision. I am not ready to spend almost 2000 Euro for the DD1 or DD2. I have an Elite Base and Wheel right now. But it seems to be that the DD with the Boost Kid is a very nice upgrade without spending 2000 Euro. The pedals I already upgraded to the V3 with even force feedback and the dumper kit for the brake.
that was actually a quality review. summed up direct drive perfectly and why power still plays a vital role. simucube 2 pro user myself but big fan of fanatec aswell (unusually for a simucube owner) so good to see they are pushing the market forward. have a subscribe.
Same here. I have an SC1 with a small mige (20 Nm) but I still like Fanatec. Before them, the only options were basically entry level Logitech/Thrustmaster wheels or high end DD's. They added a whole mid-range of options, not to mention some of the best pedals one can get for the money.
It doesn't look like there's much of an improvement over the CSL Elite.... if any! The 'power boost kit' sounds like a bit of a con and is something that should just come as standard. The whole idea of needing 'upgrades' for a brand new product - out of the box - doesn't sit well with me. And to be perfectly frank, any claimed feeling/driving improvements do come across as very placebo. Mix in those flimsy looking pedals in direct comparison and I would have to say, this is not a CSL Elite upgrade. It's a 'new' alternative for extra sales, a bit like the Logitech G29 over the G27.
It's more like it was designed to be 8 Nm originally, but they offered the lower end kit to hit the $350 price point. It gets people in the door where they will eventually spend more on rims, pedals, etc.
Listen guys if you think its weak turn it to peak! Take it off linear you will get peak ffb the entire time that way. People idk why dont undrrstand thats whag that setting is for lol. But yes it needs the 8nm boost kit. I dont think people undrrstand what smoothness does to weight lol the friction will be less and there isnt a belt pulling on it haha. This is why dd need more power. But this base was made for 8nm. Even when not havjng the boost kit on iracing it srts to 8nm automatically because the motor was made for that. It means you will never get the full expereince the hweelbaee was truely made for without the 8nm. Fanstec seems to hsve at the last minute went lets pull back and charge more.
I own a TGT II base and I can feel every bump on the road the FFB it’s pretty nice in many games! F1 projects cars AC GT. It’s just a matter of tweaking the settings the right way. Plus TLCM pedals amazing combo to enjoy sim racing 😎
The belt drive will likely have a gearing effect to increase the torque. A DD wheel has no gearing so you need a motor with more torque or a bigger power supply to provide more current (torque)
Did you tried the CSW mode on 5nm? I have the CSL DD 5nm and in the CSW mode the wheel felt a lot stronger in nearly every game. Even in iRacing the CSW mode felt better.
I have Thrustmaster TS-XW and on the F1 games the FFB is honestly bad, it just doesn’t have that intuitive weight to it but Iracing feels amazing. I’ve stopped playing F1, even though I love it, to play Iracing because the driving is just so much more realistic, especially driving the Williams on the limit. I use realistic as a term to describe how I imagine driving an F1 car would feel because I have never driven one but it’s honestly so good on iracing. I think the wheel I have will fall somewhere between the boost kit and no boost kit. If anyone wants a decent first wheel, TS-XW is fantastic. I had a t300 for about a week before I replaced it because, to get the weight I needed, caused it to over heat after about four laps. Avoid.
I have a G920 (best entry level wheelbase) and preordered the CLS DD with the 5nm. First of all, 350 + 200 for the McLaren GT3 wheel and 80 euro for the pedals still makes 630 euro. And to me its a lot of money to spend. Second of all, I am pretty sure even with the 5NM it will still be a night and day difference. Third of all, I can still upgrade to the 8NM boostkit, wich will be a new massive upgrade, Forth of all, there will be 8NM DIY powerpacks on the aftermarket for 40, 50 euro. And at last, the wheel you used is a lot heavier than the McLaren GT3 or WCR wheel with the simplified QR (1080 grams)
Careful doing the DIY upgrade for power, it will void warranty. So many saying they won’t know but I think they will know possibly as it may have memory for power, not worth the risk man....
@@seanmack9207 You're right and I will probably play it safe and order the boostkit by the time the loadcell brake pedal is coming out. Fanatec keeps track of all data, so they will find out wich powersupply I've used, but I could say I've bought the orinigal boostkit second hand. But better play it safe like you said.
by the way.. the boost is actually the PSU from the CSL Elite with a Molex plug on it so if you want to you could chop the end off or make an adapter for the old PSU, make sure to check the polarity etc on the molex plug using a voltmeter so you can 1:1 copy it if you're wiring it up yourself
even though you say the dd without boost kit isnt as strong as a csl elite..it seems from watching the side by side, the non boosted dd still has your arms shaking a bit more than the csl, which would seem to point to a little more torque. I have csl v2 and waiting for my dd to arrive.
Yeah I think the difference is the response time of the torque vs the peak torque. Seems like DD has a quicker output for the torque even though the maximum torque isn't as strong.
Think of power more as the range of potential feedback. It's headroom that allows the more minor sensations to be felt. FFB is comprised of outputs that are relative to the telemetry of the car in the sim. If the sim telemetry says the turning resistance through a given corner is 20 Nm at the steering shaft and a big bump causes a spike of 7 Nm then the FFB has to scale that for your wheel. If you have a 10 Nm peak wheel set at 100% then the turning resistance in the above corner will be 10 Nm and the bump spike will peak at 3.5 Nm. Now imagine that with more minor sensations that may only peak at, let's say .5 Nm in the telemetry. You can probably see how those sensations will get lost on a lower powered wheel. You can turn up the FFB to try to amplify those minor sensations, but then the wheel will clip under higher loads where it's being asked to put out more than it's capable. You will get the max resistance, but it will be clipped flat and feel dead right when you need the most info about what's going on with the car. I hope that helps.
I have the DD1 and the CSL DD and I would just go for the CSL DD for the money. I would want to upgrade to the QR2 as soon as it’s released though. At 8Nm I honestly couldn’t tell the difference and for the extra 2Nm you’d realistically use, it’s not worth the £700 difference
@@thio_2462 DD1 isn't really worth it when you can save so much money with CSL DD. you'll never use the 20nm of torque, you'll probably be using the same levels of torque as the CSL DD.
Wow, this is an incredible review. The side by side comparison is fantastic. Thanks so much. I have a Logitech G29 currently and am looking to upgrade. This video will be super helpful for making a decision. I'll likely go with the CSL DD with the boost kit.
I upgraded from the g923 yo the csl dd and yeah it's a massive upgrade. The detail that you get from this wheel is incredible. I can comtrol my car so much better now because I know exactly what's happening. As for the 8nm I personally think it's perfect and I can't see why anyone would want more. It's one of those purchases that I feel completely satisfied with. I honestly don't care now if I ever try a podium dd at this point.
I've been waiting for a review like this, as I currently have the CSL Elite and LC. I really appreciate the direct comparison videos! I've definitely noticed the delayed response from the wheel base from road feel/inputs and have been wondering about whether or not the CSL DD is responsive enough for a "side grade". Thank you for your thorough work!
Do you think it is worth going for the DD1 or even DD2 because of the power? Or does the CSL DD have enough, seeing as you used it at 100%?. I'm scared using the CSL DD at 100% all the time will kill the motor someday, so instead of using the CSL DD at 100% i'd rather go for a DD1 and turn it down. Does this sound reasonable or do i just want a reason to go for the DD1? :D And does anyone of you think there will be a "new DD1" sometime soon, seeing as it is new motor technology and the DD1 is quite old now?
Is it a upgrade..... less moving parts than CSL and V2.5 is always a good thing and it has the same encoder as the DD1. I went away from Fanatec but just on those points alone it’s worth it, so many saying absolutely no notching with CSL DD where is my CSL and V2.5 had slight notchy feeling.
I prefer more FFB, my DD1, because I have no other cue's, no G forces like IRL, and having 20nm of TQ, gives a nice replacement to the workout or feedback you would normally get from the seat of your pants
I purchased the Formula V2.5 PS4/PC for $559 AUD I think that much. Plus $20 shipping. So that was in June. It arrives maybe in a week for me so that’s a nice rim if anyone is interested. It’s a newer version to the formula V2. The next batch arrives in Feb 2022. It has leather grips and magnetic shifters and QR1. ( Quick release 1). It’s a bit cheaper in price too compared to the original one considering what you get. Worth a look guys and girls. And Alex.
i am coming from the Thrustmaster T300RS and consider this wheel without the boostkit as it will cost me with pedals and the mclaren gt3 wheel already around 630€ so i am not very keen on the boostkit. i get it that without the boostkit it might not be enough of a step up if you had the CSL Elite before, but what about the T300RS? i think it has 3nm tops.
Why are the lights working on the elite but not on the csl DD. I have the elite 1.1 for my xbox and the leds never worked. i just assumed it was because i am on xbox x
I have a DD1 as well as the CSL DD now and it really is impressive for the money. Most people won’t use more than the 8Nm. The only annoying things that are better on the DD1 are: The shaft holds the wheels a lot more secure on the DD1 so there’s a lot less metal on metal noise. The screen is VERY useful on the DD1 and you only realise when it’s not there. Having to put it in comp mode for most games is a bit annoying but obviously that will change. The usb c port on the back on the CSL DD doesn’t feel particularly well designed. The CSL DD is much better value for money in my opinion, well worth the money!
Never used a DD1, but I have a CSL Elite. It doesn't have a screen either -- just rev lights. But the wheel that came with it has an LED readout, plus the Formula V2.5 has a small screen. Just putting that out there for any that might not know.
I've come straight from g29 in a playseat to fanatec dd pro in a omega rig . The difference is night and day . Both were cool the g29 did what it could and I loved it but the dd pro 8nm is another world
I had the g923 before I got the csl dd. I got the 8nm version and yeah it's an order of magnitude better than the logitec. I never tried the csl elite or the csl dd at 5nm but I would think the force would feel similar. Yhe csl elite is 6nm so pretty close. As for the g29 it only has 2nm so its not even close to the base csl dd.
I wished you tried rfactor2 or ACC, I saw some people cycling through these games on 5nm and they noticed iracing was very light and flimsy but the other 2 games felt way better (so probably better optimized). Like yourself I am coming of a CSL elite but seeing the power supply is exactly the same as the PSU of the elite, it just felt bad paying 130 euros for a PSU I already own... Only the connector is different. That said I hope Fanatec optimizes their drivers so the 5nm version doesn't feel like the handicapped little brother anymore.
@@MrJr1976 The 'boost kit' is indeed the very same PSU that was provided with the CSW and CSL elite, but they changed the plug/connector. So if you're handy with soldering and electrics you can modify it so it works on the DD.
Bought a 5nm CSL DD and while waiting for it I bought a CSL Elite base. The DD is absolutely useless in rF2. It's much much much lighter than the Elite and makes driving impossible.
Yeah. I'm a little annoyed with paying 50% more for the wheel, but 8NM will be MORE than enough. Especially since I just recently tried 100% FFB on AC with my CSL Elite and my arms were getting tired.
i wore out 2 sets of the older csl pedals, pretty quick. the plastic gears on the sensors would wear and give input spikes. very happy with v3's after 2 years.
Hi:) Great video! Im thinking of changing pedals and wheel, maybe even base… What I have: Base: CSL Elite (2021) Wheel: F1 Esport (2021) Pedals: CRS Elite w. loadcell (2010) What would you recomend: Pedals, CSL Elite or higher? Wheel, I would like an all around Clubsport wheel, for GT and Road cars? Base, Im not sure if Its too much to go CSL DD, or just stay on the CSL Elite? I play PS5 (GT7, F1 2022 and Assetto Corsa), sometimes also PC (Assetto Corsa +Comp., Raceroom, Project Cars 2…) And I do not have an unlimited budget :) Have a great day, and thanks again!
Excellent review, just what I was hoping to hear. I have a CSL Elite with a McLaren GT3 V2 and V3 pedals but have the CSL DD with boost kit "on the way". I ordered after hearing all the other reviews but wanted to hear a direct comparison like this. I would hate to review a G29 after owning an Elite for a year as you couldn't do it proper justice, which is the way I felt about the opinions reviewers from DD1's and the like had. Also, your analogies were perfect in describing what you felt. Technical terms, clever wording and trying to describe actual inputs are great, but terms like suggesting you correct and telling you to correct give a real understanding. Nice job and thanks for making me feel good about my purchase. Just wish it would hurry up.
like other reviewers have said this CSL DD is designed to be run with the boost kit, and without it gives other people coming from a crappier wheel a very good base wheel.
Watching these videos is torture. I have a Formula v2.5x with the advanced paddle module and QR adapter sitting on my shelf and im just waiting on the CSL DD to arrive. i want it soooooo bad
I had to sell my Sc2 pro and all my racing gear ended up losing my Gt1 Evo because I couldn't afford to move it and had no space for it. Sold my brand new sparco seat my liquid cooled pc and other stuff. Really hurts. But atleast I know I can work hard and re purchase all of that stuff. Atleast I didn't lose any limbs or anything like that
So I don't know what the peak torque numbers are. But assuming they have the same torque, a more detailed base will tend to feel less powerful. This is because the slower, less detailed wheel will sit longer at the peak of the curve as it tries to sort the detail. The more detailed wheel will give you a more instantaneous application of that max torque and a quicker roll off. Therefore the power is gone almost before you've felt it. That's my theory anyway, it's a bit hard to explain.
my mum is against me getting a new fanatec setup that includes the csl dd but my dad is with my idea. It's not like we're in a financial situation but my mum is always ignoring my new facts and improvements I find about the csl dd. If you have any great improvements or facts that make the csl dd better than a logitech g29, please reply.
Hey, been a year, but do you know if they updated the game for the wheel? Having to go 100+ FFB for a direct drive wheel seems weird, like something must be wrong xd
Can you please tell Ben to take this co op career more seriously? It’s not fun watching his POV and it also ruins the idea of the series because all he does is complain, being slow and forcing safety cars.
Basically it comes down to Newton metres of torque 2 is no good 5 still not enough 10 is fine 8 is ok but not as good as 11 dd1 wheel producers up to 20 but it's not needed 11 is good like I said
Go for clubsport pedals I broke my load cell into two pieces after prolonged hardcore usage, got it replaced and they keep rocking They are good for at least 4K-10K hours..and u can rebuild them after
i have the csl elite and will be getting the csl dd , i have the same f1 rim as u , i notice the wheels led's are not working is that just in iracing or?
anyone else get the feeling that all these content creators have been asked by fanatec to push the boost kit? thats where they will make te most profit.
This review is pushing it a lot more compared to others I've seen. If anyone is unsure it wouldn't harm getting the 5nm then upgrading later if you wanted
@@Stupendous855 it’s much weaker than both. For example , gt sport max torque turned up to 10 on dd pro is far weaker than max torque 5 on a t300. There is zero ffb fade though and stays cool. Lots more detail obviously.
I’m planning to upgrade from a G29 to the CSL DD and a new 8040 aluminium profile cockpit, but I’ll need a longer cable (6 meters). Does anyone use a longer cable or will it work?
With your F1 game have you tried putting the DD in CSL mode push the start button to get the yellow bar ? The one thing I've noticed with my CSL DD is in ACC after assigning my CSW pedals you have to invert them otherwise their on full throttle when you get into the car 😀 but other than that they are a great upgrade from my G29 and now really pleased fanatec was out of stock of the CSL at the start of the year when I was look to upgrade 😀👍
I use a Trustmaster T300 (4 nm?) with default 75% FF strenght in control panel and 91% in F1 2021, so not very high forces...would you still suggest the boost kit or for people who use light forces it would be useless?
I appreciate your honest assessment. When you said Fanatec had sent it to you, I feared this was gonna be a sponsored review, and thus be quite biased. It wasn't. I never make snap decisions when it comes to spending hundreds of dollars, and try to do my due diligence. Your review has pushed me heavily toward pulling the trigger on this DD base. I'll be making the same step up from CSL Elite base -- which is starting to make the occasional faint popping during turns. I've put a lot of hours on it in the last 2 years. Well over 1200 last year alone between all the racing games I own. I also like that the DD bases don't need cooling fans. Fewer parts means fewer ways it can break.
Thank you for the review I had a Elite hub with Mclaren V2 since march and I was looking at reviews but as you said no one was really using an elite so you helped me alot thanks. But you get -points for driving In t-cam
