Fair warning to any healer that heals a tank in the 50-60s range that is down-synced is that you somtimes get someone that thinks he is invincible because of cds he no longer has. I think that healing is hardest with newer players in whateversburg lvl 50 (hard) dungeons because of this.
@@CaetsuChaijiCh That panic you feel in your gut when the buttons do nothing? That's the same feeling you feel when you know you are being hunted. It's some primal shit, to be a healer.
Something not mentioned during the GNB invuln is White Mages Benediction. The Bene-Superbolide meme is nearly as well known as the floor tank Dragoon, and that as a GNB, if you have a Whm heal, you -really- need to communicate if you're planning on using Superbolide, otherwise they will throw their cane at you after you superbolide right as they cast benediction.
@@azadalamiq Bene can be super-efficient, though. I don't normally bother trying to communicate things in roulettes, but when playing with a friend as WHM-tank combo it wasn't uncommon to plan Benes
@@Uwawa96I have seen WHM described as "playing How Low Can You Go with the tank's hp bar before casting Bene" which is absolutely 100% the best way to give tanks anxiety xD
As someone who plays healer a lot, there are 2 types of warriors: >Unkillable tanks that don't need no healer >They take everything raw, not even popping bloodwhetting/raw intuition and needing to be babysit the entire time Unfortunately, I find the latter is more common in roulettes.
I can kind of vouch for the 2nd type. I had a warrior not use ANY mitigation until I pointed it out, in which case they did actually started using RI. The warriors I tend to run into as a healer have been mostly decent( not unkillable, but I had no problems with healing them). I've been trying to get a healer glam from Azadaal's Legacy these past few days and gun breakers have been the hardest to heal and I can coast when it's a warrior.
I always just assume the healer knows I'm a warrior. But everytime they show that they don't by already spamming heals when I've only lost 20k HP, I go ahead and let them think they have to suffer. Your best bet as a healer is to NOT PANIC. Always assume they are the unkillable type. 😅
@@anjoumaakait's all fun and games to let the tank eat some damage until they're halfway down their HP so you start healing them and notice the damage is outpacing the heals+regen because they pulled w2w and WON'T MOVE AWAY OUT OF THE AOES!
Great video! you could probably do a "How Healers work But From a Tank's Perspective". Sometimes healers have certain quirks that make certain pulls sometimes weird, but interesting and fun in a way. WHMs have Holy that causes a stun to any pack in it's range which can be spammed (I consider Holy almost like another form of mitigation when you are not getting hit in a dungeon pack) with a bit of downsides to where you have to work around it and time things. For example, when a WHM spams Holy early on, I seen tanks unfortunately waste Bloodwhetting while the mobs are stunned, or a DRK's TBN didn't break because they are stunned and when the pack is finally immune to stun, the tanks go-to bits is on cooldown. I'm sure it's not a huge deal since most dungeon mob packs are not immensely dangerous and maybe the general tank population are probably used to just going standard approach, but still helps out in a way for anyone to take advantage of a healer's movekit on maximizing cooldowns and the output. I sometimes like to time Holy during it's diminishing returns for when the mobs are now immune to stun so that I can go to town with Bloodwhetting etc. There's also other ones like SCH's Excog or SGE's Haima where I like to see those pop first so that the rest of the tanks cooldowns flows smoothly.
I did consider the alternative combination video, but I felt most of the things to watch out for would be white mage quirks 😅(holy, asylum dome placement, benediction, and greeding extra on damage), but you're not the first to suggest this. I might see if I can make such a guide 😊 As a warrior player myself, I tend to use bloodwhetting despite white mage holy because I've seen white mages hold back on attacking to top me up first otherwise. I won't be missing the cooldown, since the holy stuns were extra mitigation I never planned for anyway, just to give a perspective! 😊 Considering the healers options is a great idea though as a tank!
Holy only stuns twice. Casting it more than that is worthless. Cast twice then prep to heal. Too many whites forget or don't pay attention to the fact stun immunity is a thing, as is stun reduction. SOME enemies you can stun 3 times with holy. The 3rd stun lasts like half a second.
@@Nempo13 just cause the stun is no longer effective doesn't mean its worthless. healer DPS is important in reducing the time it takes for a pull to end
It may be worth noting how depending on what healer you are, tanks will react differently. Particularly for AST; waiting to get the most out of ED often scares them, and they're often not aware of your Earthly Star cooking in the background.
This is true. Indeed, for both ast and whm, letting your tank drop really low to get the most out of Ed or bene can have a weird panic effect on the tank, which is basically the reverse of when the tank decides to use nothing so they drop low to invuln 😅
You also have to consider personal experience too, I've had many bad experiences with White Mages due to trying to let me get too low, and then, me going down before their benediction comes out, I don't think I've ever really experienced anything similar with any other healer class, it's only ever White Mage. It often leaves me being a bit more trigger happy with Superbolide around white mages, and then like, never having to touch it for any other of the healers. On the other hand I've teamed with so many good astros at this point that I just don't... Panic at low HP anymore with them due to how well those Astros were at keeping me standing.
Learning far too late that letting my health drop to half before hitting my Raw Int/Bloodwhetting is causing all kinds of panic. Even having leveled a few healers to max already, somehow my brain didn't think that there were healers who just weren't sure what I was doing when I was letting that happen. I've done it without thinking for so long! Thank you for the very necessary perspective my brain needed to hopefully cause less freakouts in the future. Healers have it hard enough already... orz
"To be a good healer you should play as tank too, and to be a good tank you should play as a healer too" while I think that advice still hold, this video is a really good subtitute for that since it's not feasible for everyone to play multiple jobs. Another great video!
Also great advice! I also realize probably many healers already have played a tank and so might not need this video. But hey, maybe this alternative perspective still adds something! 😊 Thank you!
@@CaetsuChaijiCh Haha It really does add something for me. I completely forgot how HoC heal work, since GNB is my least played tank. I somehow assumed it was a regen like Holy Sheltron. Hahaha.....
💯 My mains are WHM and WAR but I've leveled all of them. It gives you insights to the job if you're actually the type of person to try to understand their tool kits.
Thanks for this! I’m trying to unlearn some bad healing habits, and I’ve run into some unexpected situations where the tank just…magically healed themselves from my POV. If I could offer a suggestion, though (which might just be me): Because I’m so unfamiliar with other classes, when you say to keep an eye on the tank’s buffs, I’m not actually sure which buff icons I should be looking for. Thankfully you have other guides that go into tank abilities and show what it looks like on the party list when certain actions are taken, so I’ve been cross-referencing this with your other guides, but some kind of highlight around the buffs under discussion would have helped me to better understand what to look for. It’s a minor issue, though, since your other videos make it easy to find out that information elsewhere, so thanks for those as well!
Thank you! Yeah I sort of realized that later down the line, that obviously not everyone is aware of what the icons of each defensive cooldown is for each tank, and I was very focused on the invulnerabilities in that regard ^^ Thank you for the suggestion!
Today, for the first time ever, I had a tank stop and announce that they were using a cooldown on the next pull. NGL, I don't really know what I was meant to do because I don't know how the tank invulns wor exactly, I just got my benediction finger ready... they popped it too late, and I didn't bene them in time, and we wiped, but our second run worked out. As a white mage I'm just out there trying to keep you from hitting zero as you run away. I should maybe learn what all the invuln buffs look like on the party list, because it would probably be nice to know I worked well with the tank and their cooldowns. This video was exactly what I needed, thank you.
While we're sharing things most people probably don't know, something for the tanks reading this. Did you know that Arms Length is a defensive cooldown in mob pulls? It gives enemies slow, which doesn't work vs bosses, but reduces attacks by 20%, effectively another mitigation to add to your rotation.
@anteprs7908 are you talking about arms length? It says the slow effect in the second half of it. And while bosses are immune to it, most regular mobs get a generic slow debuff from it which Indeed makes them take 20% longer between each swing 😊
@@CaetsuChaijiCh it say but all effect show up in the name of npc at least effect over time like with most dots or mits you can see them on ,but arms length only show up on thr chr that uses it and show the knockback effect .
Imo tanking is the role with the most "unspoken rules" and is the most behavior/strategy heavy role. I recently found a guide about off-tanking where he explained how various tank/boss interactions work, and there was so much stuff I didnt know. For healers and dps, it's enough to just know how your kit works and interacts with itself, but for a tank there are so many more points about how you interact with bosses, enemies, other tanks and more to set everything up for your team. Tanking is the hardest role to learn because it's hard to find the information to teach yourself in the first place.
This is very true. Tanks also deal with a lot of less specific rules like positioning just to name one. And because the role is defensive in nature, it can be hard to even make a guide that applies for everything, since optimally you have to adjust to every fight case by case!
I half agree. The upfront learning curve is big, but once you get past that, it's probably the easiest role to play. On another hand, healing is a tossup because its difficulty depends on how many mistakes are made; teammates dying eats up your MP for reviving, and you dying makes your own healing weaker upon being revived. The hardest role, actually, is dps. You can't self-heal or raw hp/mit through mistakes, and your rotation is the hardest, so you are least able to focus on other players.
@iPlayOnSpica hahaha, now we're looping back to caiji's video on job difficulty for various types of players. That's how you know the man makes good content! At the time of writing this, it hasn't even been 24 hours since I finished the base end walker msq, and I haven't even started post-ew yet. 4 jobs are lvl 90 for me, so for someone well established in the raiding scene I can see how dps would be the hardest job to play once it's been learned.
Tbh Tank is mostly.. hard to learn but easy to master, sure many player also scared about tanking because _you are the leader of the group_ and not experience Tanks are also often the target for rude players, because many player dont care when you dont have a good dps rotation (in casual content) BUT.. when you fuck up something as tank _everyone sees it_ Its literally the opposite of a dps job.. dps is literally easy to learn because casual content has barely dps checks but when you go in the "Hardcore" Content?.. oh boi i hope you learn your rotation.
@@kohlicoide2258 tbh, as tank main... Yea. Most difficult part for me is to switch my muscle memory between WAR and DRK (as I've cleared the entirety of savage Anabaseios as DRK, and Abyssos as WAR), but the defensive part is quite standardised per se, with a couple of quirks like when is actually a good time to use Vengeance, or Dark Mind, etc.
As one of the Warriors that "don't need no healer" I can say with absolute certainty that if I wasn't "this stingy with said healing" then I would, in fact, be a warrior that needs a healer. A lot of the time the reason you hold out on using Bloodwhetting is to offset the cooldown so its up again when you need it, especially if its the 2nd pull when your Vengeance is on cooldown. This is less true if your in full BIS (or just generally overgeared for a dungeon) but even then it still holds water for some dungeons. And this is **always** true if your doing a 3dps 1tank dungeon run.
That is a fair point. In my experience, I typically have plenty of resources to work with when I am tanking as warrior, that I can spend Bloodwhetting quite early in a pull and still be fine regardless of what the healer chooses to do. The primary reason I advice against sitting on Bloodwhetting like this, is specifically because when it scares the healer, the healer is more likely to spend more resources rather than less, which is the exact opposite of what you intended to do. In a real situation, there is of course also a far greater chance that the logical time to use bloodwhetting is when youve lost a bit of HP. But there is also a massive difference between using Bloodwhetting at 100% (Which is technically sort of what I am suggesting in the video I will admit xD), 80%, 50%, and 20% (which tends to be where a lot of healers start panicking a lot, if they didn't already start panicking earlier than that) And when your healer starts panicking, they start wasting resources. Whether that resource is casting Cure 2, or tossing 2 or 3 oGCDs that you didn't actually want can vary from healer to healer. Problem being is that at 20%, if YOU don't do anything about it by then, then if the healer doesn't you die. And then they risk a tank blaming the healer for not healing them. So if you wait too long, and the healer has to act, they will ^^ In a 1 tank 3 DPS scenario, there is of course no healer watching your HP bar which also completely changes the situation, and there I would also say you are free to do whatever you'd need to do to make the healing last!
It is also worth noting that some Dark Knights will stop using any actions at all while Walking Dead is active, and only use an AoE towards the end of its duration if they expect that to top them up, simulating a Warrior's Holmgang + Bloodwhetting. Of course this does mean that they're doing practically no damage for 10 seconds, but free mitigation is free mitigation. The thing to look for here is to see if they have topped themselves early or not after Walking Dead triggers.
That is actually quite an interesting trick I never considered! Partly because I don't think I trust healers to just do nothing when you're at 1 hp which could compromise the trick!
One thing I rarely see other players do in dungeons that I do a lot is using WHM Benediction regularly. Without the Blood Lily, the first priority for healing is Regen uptime (if necessary), Divine Benison if the content is at a high enough level, then ogcd (primarily Tetragrammaton and Benediction) before finally resorting to gcd healing. Using Benediction in dungeons as often as possible allows for more dps uptime as WHM, but it is a little hilarious to occasionally freak out the tank. I generally use it at 25% tank hp, accounting for potential latency and snapshotting.
Indeed, a trick like that could sometimes warrant a warning of its own, because some tanks go into danger mode by that point and start spamming defensives, or start running away even, if they don't know the healer is planning benediction 😅 I believe the trick is less common because many white mages really like to save bene as a last resort, and others simply don't feel like they need it when they have lilies and things like tetra 😊 naturally using all of your toolkit is always more efficient than sitting on something!
When I play WHM and plan to bene, I don't even look at the tank's health bar. I just watch and wait for the "panic wiggle" that occurs when the tank thinks he's going to die. I'm not evil, I just like to make sure my fellow gamers get some healthy heart rate elevation into their gaming sessions.
As a healer main with all tanks at 90, i still have trouble predicting what the tank is gonna do in dungeons, not because i dont know thier kit but because it feels like they dont know their own lol. Dark knights who never use tbn in dungeons where you at?
As a mainly dps player, I also love to play Tank and always make sure my healer is good to go or if they need help to make sure my cooldowns line up with pulls. I do this because I cant play Healer because I get panic attacks if I cant do the job right. So I massively respect them haha
I think this is the single most important video i watched as a healer in the making. I was planning on leveling all tanks at some point to see what their abilities actually do, but this is immensely helpful until i get to investigate tank gameplay myself. Thanks for the great vid
I wish you were correct on GNB using Bolide. outside of a personal friend, I've never seen one in a roulette, let themselves get low first before using Bolide. They just pop it from 100% if they EVER use it. I'm sure there are others.. but I main heals :( it can't be that common if i don't see it much) maybe a Server behavior difference? I play on Jenova
I don't see gunbreakers use superbolide aggressively very much in general. However a *good* use of superbolide would be as described in the video at least 😂 i have seen it. But I have also seen your version, usually when a tank buster is coming. It's especially weird, when I know the tank buster does less than half their hp in damage 😂
As a gun breaker I do try to ensure that superbolide is typically the last resort clutch ability that appears when I realize two things: I'm about to die, and my healer has run out of fancy healing spells and has been reduced to using basic heals only while trying to weave in good heals quickly as they hit. I live for perfectly timed superbolides
This is so helpful!! I am reaching a level where big pulls are more common + I am more comfortable with my job and can actually pay attention to what abilities tanks are using, so this came at a perfect time. I just have difficulty remembering the icons for abilities, but I suppose that will just come with experience and a little bit of memorisation on my part.
I am sure it will come with experience yes! 😊 You could also try and look up the actions of each tank, as the buffs often look similar to the actions themselves! 😁
I have never had a gunbreaker use superbolide on purpose...it's always an accident and it always gives me a heart attack. They all apologize for it after the fact though XD. I think the biggest thing I've noticed as a healer is that at or bellow 50 Dark Knights aren't particularly sturdy tanks a lot of the time, so if you have a really greedy one things might get a bit crazy. Once I got used to that it got much easier to heal for them, but for a while seeing them as my tank would make me sweat a little. The other thing that stuck in my head a bit later on was that some warriors will start pulling more and more if they realize they can get away with it, it's only really noticeable at lower levels since they haven't reached peek healer masquerading as a tank yet. When I start branching out to the other healers (started as a scholar) I found it a bit difficult at first to go from a shield healer to a pure healer, the mind set is a little bit different, cause you don't really want to be too reactive on either or you'll fall behind, but it also felt harder to be proactive as well. I ended up gravitating towards Astrologian, cause something just didn't gel with me with white mage. Some of the initial difficulty might have just been not yet having a feel for the heals yet. (I pickedup sage yesterday and am having the same issue, just don't have a feel for the class, so it feels really difficult to heal with so far...and for some reason the leveling que keeps dumping me in higher level dungeons so I'm probably going to have to use my grand company squad to get into lower levels to get myself more familiar with all the buttons) I still have to kind of change how I think about things when I switch between scholar or astro, and will usually not play both in the same play session cause my muscle memory and timing gets thrown off.
Regarding the sage problem, I would simply recommend specifically queueing for lower level dungeons if you want that, instead of queueing leveling roulette and praying! 😅
@@CaetsuChaijiCh I will try that, usually it always puts me in the really low level dungeons, so I didn't expect it to start putting me in 45+ two times in a row. (my parties did not suffer for it at least so there's that)
Good info, though I'd say that Warrior is closer to the shield healers than White Mage. White Mage features very minimal shields in exchange for flat healing while Warrior has shields as well as healing; better shielding than Paladin in most respects and appears more regularly than Dark Knight. Paladin I'd say is closer to White Mage as it has a good deal of healing but doesn't have many shields, just like White Mage.
Another point on DRK's TBN: it only lasts 7 seconds, and if they don't take enough damage for it to be completely depleted before it runs out, they both waste healing AND don't get the free use of their damage ability. That means if they're geared enough, they often won't use TBN alongside other mit because there's a chance it won't get fully used up. Also, Holy can be extremely frustrating, as the stun will sometimes waste an entire use of TBN, both negating their strongest mitigation tool and hurting their damage. PLD also has a strong low-level mitigation tool in Shield Bash, but like Clemency, it loses them damage. You sometimes see frightened PLDs rotating through targets with Shield Bash if they're scared their healer isn't healing them enough and they don't have Clemency yet.
I just discovered the “enmity gems” like a week ago when I was grinding up my squadron. (We did it, Flame Captain baby!) I sometimes find myself pressing my “engage” button when I’m on my white mage cause that’s what I used to level it to 50.
As a WHM I just regen and sometimes shield if need be. Gives me the most uptime for dps. Same thing when a player gets smacked by something, regen and move on. If they get smacked twice Ill thrown down some petal heals and move on. Focusing on just healing when learning is class is absolutely fine. Once you learn the ins and outs of your healing class you know your windows better for dps. Only tank I ever struggle to heal most times has been Dark Knights due to their higher magic damage mitigation over natural defense.
I have to note this, it's happened to me and some friends a few times in the past, Superbolide has an additional downside that if it is cast it just as something hits you or just before(i'm not sure on the exact timing but it is really rare) you die as the effect isn't on you in time. As far as I can tell the squence of the effects are lower to 1 hp then apply invuln.
I don't think that's quite it, but you might be right, although I think it might be something else! You see, if an attack was initiated before you pressed superbolide, so the damage snapshot already happened, then the damage will be dealt regardless of what you do. Superbolide sending you to 1 hp means of course that attack will kill you as a result. This kind of order of actions stuff happens a lot in pvp, where for example you can see a summoner cast bahamut, and use guard (so you take 90% less damage), but even though bahamuts attack lands a good full second later, it still deals full damage. It is the same problem in your superbolide case I imagine. Which is really weird actually! I haven't seen that happen before, and given how easily this could happen, I can't imagine how it doesn't happen more frequently!
Oh I've been in parties in which Superboilde didn't trigger when popped and the gunbreaker died. I think there's a slight delay from pressing it. Might be the server delay giving them the finger.
@@CaetsuChaijiCh you could be right there, the hp drop is imidiate after all, but again i'm not sure it doesn't happen often enough for me to have an accurate understanding of how it occurs.
@IKMcGwee it is not uncommon for these things to happen if you invuln just before you are about to die. I do believe superbolide actually occurs like half a second after the animation begins, now that I think about it. This isn't uncommon and could even be a latency thing. It's the same problem also, as when white mages use benediction, heal goes through, and the tank dies anyway! 😅
As a main tank I'll always in the first pull use Reprisal & Arm's Length and use that as a gauge to see how the healer reacts. This results in either 1. The healer will overheal because they didn't see me use mitigation (i.e. Rampart), or 2. They'll relax and notice that I have things under control.
As someone who just got into FFXIV, I'm glad I watched this before getting too far in. I'm starting as Warrior and would 100% be the kind of person to try and "optimize" my self healing, so hearing that I'd only end up making my healer's job harder by doing that is something I'll keep in mind when I get to raid content.
Optimization is a lot about optimization! I am sure if your healer is aware of what you are doing, it is perfectly fine! I am glad you found this helpful!
Then there was me in Abyssos; a DPS main who had to learn the rotation/combination of tank mitigations to teach tanks how to make the healers not hate them long term, and then learning how healers properly worked for their healing to be more efficient for the tanks. While learning the fight and learning/figuring out how I wanted to do calls. Fun times.
Given all those brutal dots especially in the savage version, I could absolutely imagine this! Although I really hope this was on normal if they tanks and healers needed that much help 😅
@@CaetsuChaijiCh It was, in fact, my static for Savage. We did finish Abyssos past the growing pains and most stayed together for Anabaseios. 8 week clear of Anabaseios vs Abyssos' 16 weeks, so it was worth it learn the ins and outs of most relevant jobs and teaching a friend from scratch. It made me a significantly more knowledgeable and flexible player compared to me in Asphodelos.
I main as tank (pal and dk) so this was interesting to watch what it looks like from a healers perspective. I tried to play as a healer and found out that I dont like some tanks very much ;p
Playing a bit as a healer also helps you to understand what you would like to see from a tank which allows you to improve your tanking as well, so maybe seeing those bad tanks is a good thing in a way? 😅
The number of SCH's that heal for a DRK and forget about emergency tactics when the DRK doesn't get enough healing off their own attacks....or when GNB superbolides and the SCH suddenly needs to top them off... it converts the shield part of your next shield into healing.
Worth a mention that warrior's holmgang basically never sees use after level 54 in dungeons. What's the point of invulnv with a 240s cooldown when you have invuln on a 25c cooldown.
This is bad advice and just plain wrong. It has plenty of use, especially when used together with BW. If you can't see a use for 10 seconds of not dying, you should head back to tank school
As someone who changed jobs every expansion starting qs a tank doing all 3 dps and then ending on healer. I hated healing dark knights as a early lvl undergeared sage
Dark Knight tends to be the hard mode to heal because they need to work harder for the mitigation. That of course makes it even more tough if you are new to the healer you are playing! ^^'
i played white mage so i was always suprised when from nowhere tank hp dropped to 1 - taught me when i finally played tank to warn that i will use superbolide:D
When I play WAR in level 90 dungeon content, I just wish healers would stop healing me at all. (Unless it's some free crap like Kardia or oGCDs) Every level 90 dungeon is possible to do with 1 WAR and triple DPS with even just a mediocre tank. (Hell, I'd wish they'd stop spot-healing me when I'm playing SAM and I'm intentionally taking vuln stacks because it gives me uptime and I know I can un-fuck myself with Bloodbath and Second Wind at no extra cost to the healer) I have so much mitigation on WAR that I end up over-mitigating a bunch of pulls just to show the newbie healer "See? It's not so scary. This is a safe place. You can let go of the GCDs now" Or to at least goad them into DPSing because a lot of DF healers are allergic to letting tank HP drop below 70% and won't DPS if that HP bar looks even remotely scary to them. There's on average about 1 pull per level 90 dungeon that necessitates the use of a Holmgang if there's no healer or no healing from a healer. I'd go so far as to argue that Sprint is a form of mitigation because it reduces that time between you pulling the first pack of mobs and arriving at the wall for that trash pull. This time is useless time because the DPS, for the most part, don't get to do meaningful DPS (IE: Reducing the amount of GCDs it takes to kill the whole trash pull). The faster they get started on doing their work, the less damage the tank has to take overall. Really wished more people would just press sprint. It's one (1) button. Nice guide, though. Plenty of "good enough" information that gets the point across without cluttering with tonnes of details that would be difficult to process for new healers. Any more in-depth than this and we're getting into speedrun and raid territory, which a player should be going out of their way to do their own research on at that point. (Should probably mention somewhere that this guide pertains only to dungeons and not much else. Just for the convenience of people looking this up.)
Thank you! Indeed, to your point in the parenthesis, this guide focuses mainly on dungeon pulls specifically because many of these differences in tanks are much more prominent and clear in dungeons, where in other content, it tends to be less of an issue. Or if need be, theres time to explain things! Also, Sprint is absolutely mitigation. I feel like that would be weird to mention in this guide, simply because the healers also have that. Although in a guide to tanks, it might be handier! :D
Try telling your healers not to heal you or not to heal unless you drop to a certain level when you start the dungeon. For every great self healing warrior there are about two hundred that don't use their self heals at all, or pop their defensives all at the same time if they get below 50 and then get mad at the healer for "not doing their job". I have had warriors wall to wall pull with 0 mitigation while sprinting and using gap closers out of my range of healing, then refuse to pull less when asked after the party wipe, then rage quit the dungeon after the third party wipe. It is much safer to hedge your bets and assume your tank is not a good tank.
I main GNB, high level corrundum is by far my favorite cooldown, i use it on myself for defensive heals, and also to heal party memebers in savage to alleviate stress on healers
I'm a healer main but I never worry about any of these little intricacies. I never let my tank get so low that they freak out and using something like living dead. Also, no one ever complains about my healing management because I'm always helping with DPS whenever I'm not healing.
Indeed, a very good point. Some people find it more helpful than others. I mainly only adjust my play as a healer around warriors simply because of how strong bloodwhetting is. But still, it is helpful to know how, say, living dead works, when something goes wrong, and you can't keep them topped for whatever reason 😊
I became a better healer when I started tanking, and became a better tank due to me being a healer main. It's super beneficial to play all the roles to understand what they all can and can't do.
And then there's me, giggling because I feinted the boss's attack so it didn't trigger TBN, knowing the Dark Night is kinda mad, but also can't get mad at me for using mitigation. :D
As DRK main, it's not too hard actually. Pop Living Dead if you want to not bother with mitigations during W2W is fine, especially at the start. For something spicier, Living Dead while you're near the source of the proximity AOE (though sometimes you can get away with less, depending on fight). Just remember that GCDs will heal, so just do your 1-2-3 or 1-2 AOE combo lol
Switched from dps main to try out scholar as first healing job about 2 wks ago. Dont tank bc it stresses me out, so this is great. TANK you :3 (pun intended)
Dumb question as someone not well versed on the balance philosophy of FFXIV: I just finished leveling DRK is there a reason abyssal drain has a cooldown 60 sec as apposed to 25-30? like I get TBN exist but you don't get that for a while when starting from 30 and having virtually no self sustain feels terrible. (sorry if this sounds like just complaints but I'm the type of person that finds it easier to deal with things when I have a rational to why something is the way it is.)
There isn't a particular reason for it. Dark knight happens to be the weakest of the tanks on self healing for some reason. I think the best explanation I can give is that as long as the tanks work okay in dungeons, and are somewhat equal in raids, then they are all fine. Which has led to dark knight being the hardest dungeon tank, and warrior being a demigod for some reason. I don't think there is a specific balance question to it, which makes it hard for me to give a clear or rational answer to you 😅
Thank you very much. Dark knight has been the most awkward for me when healing. I haven’t played Dark Knight yet and Living Dead always seemed confusing (should I heal? Should I not?). Now it makes more sense.
Paladin here, mostly play with my friends so comunication isn't really an issue, but when we're running 8mans or alliance i like to play off-tank so i can effectivly drop clemencies on people my healer friends rez, to save them mana for things like mitigation, dps, or emergency oh-shit buttons. It's saved us a number of wipes because the healers could focus on getting people up on a near wipe while I slap them with heals.
The amount of times I've pressed bene 3 frames before the GNB uses bolide is almost as many as the times I've seen a PLD using clem on himself at 75% health. Which is to say, a lot. Just saying "invuln this pull" is a gigantic help. I know a good tank when I can pop a regen or two on him and just DPS the rest of the pull.
I have leveled all the tanks and healers. But it has been over a year since i did so. Outside Gnb, the tank i play 95% of the time, i could not tell you the what the other tanks did. The plethora of cds gnb has explains why i feel the most relaxed it instead of the other 3.
using living dead at the beginning of the first w2w is the one that kills me when im whm. like HELLO?? holy has a stun first few seconds😭 i remember a tank w full hp use ld as i was holy spamming… did not end well.
as a DRK main, i can't imagine not using TBN at every possible opportunity, doing big pulls? TBN. little pulls? TBN. tank buster? TBN. people calling us too edgy? can't hear them over TBN. it's to the point where everytime i get pulled into a low level dungeon, i'm actively missing my ability to use the skill. it's just too good of a skill, that DRK barely feels like a class without it.
Unless it's savage raid then, for my case "I throw TBN- wait, fucker's casting something and my TBN is not broken! Goddammit!" (P11S is quite a pain in that regard lol, clearly I haven't done that for a while 😅)
As a paladin I use clemency on any target that drops below 50% genuinely as a safety measure. Especially if it's the healer. This comes as a result of how I heal though and isn't optimal. As a healer if the group drops in health my priorities are tank, DPS with rez/heal options, then back to myself. Because I trust myself to move out of mechanics more than people I don't know in duty finder. But when playing with a group I know. I usually only clemency the healer In a pinch, and myself if I'm below 60 ish percent and a tank buster is incoming.
Very few tanks I have run with in DF ever use Invuln except as a panic button. In some cases as a healer, I feel a bit offended like a slap in the face by an invuln use when it wasn't really necessary(More so than Celemency PLDs). Similarly, I'd rather keep the invuln for if I need it in most cases. Exceptions being specific pulls of various dungeons I know outright will be exceedingly tough, where wipes happen more often than usual. I also will use my invuln if I don't want to slow down, but just got through a pull where I used a lot of mits already, to keep the pace while waiting for the CDs to rotate out. As for while healing, I just use the first 2 pulls to get an idea of how much I need to care about the tank, regardless of the job. The only time I really start to even look at their defensive usage are when I am having to spam out Lustrate or something to keep them up. If the tank is even half decent, Excog, plus fairy AOE, and Soil typically are all I need. Maybe a lustrate if the fight is long. Otherwise, Green DPS it is. When I was leveling RDM a long time ago, I had no personal sense of how healing in 14 worked compared to WoW, and letting HPs get a little lower, and I would top off tanks with vercure a lot. I remember distinctly a tank getting miffed at the healer over me doing it, when realistically I was the one in the wrong overall, asking them why I was having to heal him instead of DPS. That WHM was actually fine, they had Bene primed, etc. I was just a paranoid DPS that liked to support a lot.
As a tank healer, I dont expect the healers to know my abilities, I just expect them to know what their own abilities are and when to use em. I'm a warrior main, UNGA BUNGA SOLO FINAL BOSS!!!
I think the issues healers have about not knowing how a tank plays is fixed by actually running dungeons. Doesn't take 10000 runs to figure out living dead if you see it once or 2wice and ask the tank what it is. Or that using regen pre-pull is bad versus shield pre-pull. You get one too many mob aggro and anyone who can work a computer should be able to figure it out lol
Tbh as a GNB main I feel like more of a hinderance in early content than I do a tank, but I enjoy playing the class to much to trade it in for the superior warrior class.
My biggest discrepancy with this video. It is made from the perspective of one type of player. I am 100% an instinctual player. I am someone who neither knows nor cares about optimal performance. I AM NOT saying this is a bad video. I actually kinda wish I had seen something like this when I started XIV. The advice I would personally add to this explanation (from the perspective of being instinctive) is, "Know what kind of healer you are using." White Mage is a reactive "specialist" healer that heals large amounts of damage. Specialist meaning that it is almost exclusively a healing class. Scholar and Sage are proactive healers that utilize barriers as well as healing. And Astrologian is a reactive support healer that is like a white mage with buff abilities and a tad bit less healing power. Reactive = heals in response to damage & Proactive = limiting damage and healing the difference. I have been a healer main for almost 4 years and I am confident when I say, "A healer that knows what they are doing is what you should strive to be." Know your class capabilities and be familiar with in-game mechanics for different content FIRST. Then learn about the tanks (in this case). “If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle” -Sun Tzu- In reverse order, this quote perfectly describes the learning process I went through as a healer.
Clemency.............. As a Scholar main... No one understands what I do AT ALL! You will never be above 80%hp. I am doing more for your damage reduction than I am for topping you off. Your hp is ALWAYS being stared at because I am paying very close attention to how fast or slow your hp drops. If you have 100/100 hp. A Scholar will give you 10% Mitigation, 30 BONUS hp, a heal that drops onto you after you get knocked below 50%hp. I can raise your maximum hp to 120/100, i can give 5% magic mit, 10% all mit/speed, regen every 60 seconds. Oh and a LOT of our healing is TIED to our DPS potential. The meme about "Sch" not healing is true because Sch is meant to work ALONGSIDE whitemage or Ast. Sage is built to NOT LIMIT your healing potency since addersgall cant be used on damage. The amount of players i see use clemency when i am sitting here trynna Weave my regens, mit and sheilds... If you ever play with a sch who is smart, know this. If you see them use Physick... you are on your own.
This is a great video! I’m a tank with 400+ hours of experience specifically as a tank and I just assumed healers already knew lmao. I main Warrior now and will be telling my healers not to worry about my aggressive play-style at the beginning of the dungeon as opposed to the end
As a healer main who knew nothing, the first time a tank used a macro to announce invul with a nifty countdown timer all I could think is "I know this is nice but what the heck does that mean? No heals until countdown is over? Save holy stuns for after? Are they going to need a lot of heals in a few seconds?" None of those were answered until I asked my fc later because dungeons aren't really the place for explanations. Same thing with walking dead, tank said they were going to use it and I had to ask if I needed to let them die lol.
My tank I play with is a Warrior and as I Scholar main when we do play together I give out the heads up im using Excogitation on them so they don't have to self heal till it pop
As a GNB main, I do not need any healing in Endwalker dungeons to recover from Superbolide, so just dont waste your Benes on me unless its con cooldown. Corundum + Aurora gives me 1700 potency of healing, + passive regen (yes, you do heal in combat. IIRC its 1% of max hp every 3 seconds, vs. out of combat's 10%/3s; In current gear I should be healing around 1,160 hp periodically, but know that each mobs autos hover around 7-9k and are more frequent than regen is) and another 200 pot heal after the invuln ends. And its worth noting that Catharsis can *crit*. Corundum does not trigger off of receiving *damage*, it only looks at your HP value, so if youre out of combat and missing 51-99% of your HP, casting Corundum will immediately trigger it; more relevantly, this means that having it when or using it after Superbolide will instantly pop the burst heal as I hit 1 HP. its for this reason I have Bolide, Corundum, and Aurora all going at the same time whenever Im using my invuln. As Aurora has multiple charges at high levels, it is beneficial to me to keep it running regularly so I dont overcap, and Corundum, Camoflauge, and Ramparts combined have short cooldowns and high uptime so I lose next to nothing this way, while also keeping my healers safe from cardiac arrest
Indeed! The only real reason for the healer to be concerned when the gnb superbolides is that not all gunbreakers actually remember to heal themselves afterwards! 😂
On the other hand, using corundum to heal in bolide means you're completely missing its mitigation aspect - IMO it's better to use it before bolide, to have more time before you drop yourself to 1 HP, and then it'll be soon off cooldown after your invuln ends
@@nospoilerit's true I lose mit if I heart after bolide but it's a 25 second cool down so I generally don't give it much thought since I'll probably follow up bolide with camo or rampart anyways
I don't queue as a healer anymore unless I'm with a tank I know. There's way too many tanks nowadays that use no mits whatsoever and get mad at me because they died. The ones that expect way too much and cry like babies always stay in my mind longer than the good ones.
I had a returner warrior in Akadaemia Anyder that used Holmgang once, shake it off like 3 times, and Vengeance once immediately after they popped Holmgang... My DPS was in the hole because I couldn't cast holy more that once or twice a pull. I've tanked that as Warrior, and I usually start pulls with vengeance and either Arm's Length or Reprisal, then I pop the other with Rampart. Usually my combo healing and MAYBE Thrill of Battle or Raw Intuition with those CDs.
That random warrior certainly was doing it weird. However I can recommend to you: just start with raw intuition. It alone should keep you alive on aoe. After it runs out, you should consider other cooldowns like vengeance 😊 which then will last long enough to use raw intuition shortly after again! 😁 Of course how much you need between raw intuitions can vary, but raw intuition itself heals for so much, that it is on the verge of being equivalent to an invulnerability, on aoe! 😊
@@CaetsuChaijiCh the frustration with that warrior was that wasn’t per pull. That was the whole dungeon. But thanks for the tip! I’ll try it next time I run Warrior.
When I’m playing White Mage, if a GunBreaker uses superbollide, I will just throw Benediction on them and ignore them for a bit. White Mage DPS time lol.
I use long def CD then short Because by using long, I start by CD sooner. So by next pull both long and short would be back by time I’ve used my second long CD expires. Follow me?
4:30 NO! Listen, I agree that the healer should be warned and I do that when tanking on warrior. I have a macro explaining that I let my HP dip VERY low before healing that I spam at the start of every four man dungeon that encourage healers DPS instead of heal me. Also you left out a chunk of warrior healing on trash pulls why? It's not just about nascent flash. I cannot stress the absurdity of warrior healing when used correctly. I can and have gone the whole dungeon without healing in any dungeon post lv58 once you get Equilibrium. It looks something like this. Pull last trash pack. Pop defense cool down like vengeance. Wait for HP to dip low then pop nascent flash. Wait for HP to dip low again before hitting it with that thrill of battle/equilibrium combo or just equilibrium. By the time my HP dips low a third time most of the pack should be dead which means less damage being taken and long enough for nascent flash to come off cool down. This goes on the assumption the healer actually payed attention to my macro at the start explaining all of this. I. JUST. DON'T. NEED. HEALING. i need dps..please? I wanna also stress that I understand there are some trash warriors out there that don't understand their tool kit. I know because I ran into them as a healer. WHAT DO YOU MEAN I HAVE TO STOP HOLYING TO HEAL YOU?!
As a rule I only rescue in a few specific situations: 1. player is actively trying to get out of the aoe but they won't make it in time. 2. Player is a sprout and has been hit by the mechanic before but doesn't seem to know what to do to be safe for whatever reason. 3. You personally know the player and that they get tunnel vision sometimes and they don't mind you rescuing them 4. Player healer who is not a whm with the bell out and you don't have swiftcast or a RDM 5. Trolling friends in a good natured way. Or revenge on tank that deliberately moved to be on top of me with a tank buster.😅 If people want to greed don't rescue them unless you are on your 3rd attempt and think you will wipe again if they take the hit. Most classes have jump back or gap closers they can use to dash away from danger. Getting hit by aoes is how players learn mechanics and what they can and can't get away with. Addendum only rescue a BLM if they are already in motion and need it. NEVER interrupt a BLM cast. Especially not if they are in their lines. Just pop a shield on them if you want or let them die.
as someone who plays healer more than tanks, I try to maximize my tools and thus hold bloodwhetting until my HP is at 50%. but then my healer heals me all the way back up to 100% and I just die on the inside as they waste valuable heals on my unmitigated damage. edit: I just got to that one point in the video nyo! >:( but i will take your advice and warn them in advance
I'm assuming the parts with the menu in the top middle? Yeah the footage was decent, but originally was recorded for a short, so I placed it there to make it look nicer. But in retrospect, I don't recommend placing it THAT central 😊
youhad tanks actually TELL you that they use living dead?!?!?! Wow.. I wish I had that. I main healer and often the tank just . .drops in health to almost nohealth without a warning
I have a theory. A tank that started as a healer, usually go for either PLD or WAR but a player starting as a DPS go DRK and GNB. This is what i noticed when i queue as healer and examining he tank. Whenever I party with a PLD or WAR, i often times forget that they are taking damage. But with DRK and GNB, i have to be alert for sudden spike. Also, PLDs using Clemency. Thank you.
Hmm that could be. I can say for certain i know at least one healer who picked up tank who started with and stuck with gunbreaker and dark knight so it isn't entirely accurate, but I see what you mean by how some tanks are more likely to prioritize healing themselves 😊
@@CaetsuChaijiCh there will always be outliers. But that is what i mostly noticed when doing roulettes. Also, to add to this, a healer first tank knows how to rotate defensive cooldowns than the other... but the dps first tanks have balls of steel. XD
@PunkFiddler add to that, I also think a healer first tank is far more willing to let their rotation break for defensive reasons, compared to a dps first tank. But as you said, outliers!
If Clemency still got the potency buff from Requiescat, and instant heal on a DPS could keep them in the game while also keeping me topped off. If they’re casting it raw consistently, then you may have a problem.
![[FFXIV] How Tanks Work But From a Healer's Perspective](/img/logo.svg){kind=logo}
