0:11 Notice how the Harkonnen rebuilt the destroyed parts of Arrakeen with their own architecture (Duncan Idaho sends his regards). Also the Harkonnen have been on Dune for 80 years prior to the Atreides interlude but you couldn't see a piece of their architecture then. Shows how little they invest in the place unless they absolutely have to.
This movie is really filled with tiny little details that needed no explaining. They were just there, and it's really satisfying once you do find them.
why should the harkonnens, the very first few of the rulers expanded arrakeen and one of the later but more recent to harkonnen time rulers would have developed it to modern levels considering geography and such. Neither harkonnens nor atreides would change unless there is a need if it becomes outdated or damaged
If i'm recalling the book correctly, Arrakeen was not the Harkonnen's capital during their rule. Duke Leto specifically chooses Arrakeen as his capital because it had less Haarkonnen influence, and therefore less likely subject to sabotage.
Not considering air superiority: infantry against heavy armor is a foregone conclusion. Riding a sandworm into battle must be some kind of adrenaline high
Heavy armor backed with special forces infantry AND air support. Just like in our world, heavy armor alone is just a target-rich environment to properly trained infantry and air attack. But if your armor is *also* backed with elite infantry and fighter cover, the other side is well and truly hosed. As the Sardaukar and Harkonnen troops quickly discovered.
@@timothydavidcurpThat's the advantage of having someone trained by Duncan Idaho and Gurney Halleck commanding your side. And yes, the House atomics were used as artillery against the Shield Wall. That was technically a war crime but the LAST thing anyone would want to do is sterilize Arrakis in retaliation, and Paul was careful no HUMANS died in the atomic blast. Only in the battle that followed. Paul played them all and the tactics were a masterwork, worthy of a Duke and the Kwisatz Haderach.
The air support was Stilgar's job. The worms laden with fanatical rocket launcher wielding warriors to "Distract their defense network" took care of the air support. Sandstorm took care of the rest.
Makes me wonder how exactly a skirmish between Fremen and Harkonnen/Sardaukar warriors would play out if it was traditional shielded melee combat. I always thought that the Fremen won on that battle because every possible winning factor was on their favor.
@@Thraiel You kind of see it in Arakeen. The Harkonens were fighting with shields AND air support! There's no contest. Fremen are fanatical at this point as well as being veterans that have been micro dosing on spice their entire lives.
I mean he wasn’t expecting Paul to know when he was coming or to nuke the shields around the city. Has the shields not been destroyed the sand worms would never have been able to attack them
Everyone's missing the biggest factor Literally no one in the Corinno or the Harkonnen line expected Paul(Muad'dib) to have atomics, when Gurney mentioned the Atredies atomics to Paul, Paul assumed them all to be lost and was ecstatic to learn about it still being hidden and it is very likely that the emperor very much assumed the same with the Harkonnen and the Baron confirming it because they're too proud to actually say they don't have the Atredies atomics And not to mention the Emperor's arrogance as well, in the scene where he discusses Muad'dib with Irulan, he clearly holds his Sardaukar in very high regards which would lead him to assume that any traditional Fremen attack would be easily repelled by his soldiers
Paul Muad'Dib Atreides sees all future possibilities. He directed the Padishah Emperor to the future he wanted. As Gaius Helen Mohiam said, "The Kwisatz Haderach is a form of power that our world has not yet seen. The ultimate power!".
I hope that in one of edits of the movie to come out after the fact, there will be shots of the Sarduakar falling screaming into the maws of the worms.
"heading to their dead" is actually a felicitous slip - b/c they are not heading to "their deaths" - they are heading to the piles of corpses they are going to make as they cut down the great houses.
My wife learned over on the couch and whispered…”They held each other close…and turned their backs upon the end…the hills that split asunder and the black that ate the skies”…quoting GOT’s made me smile 😊…DUNE 2 was worth $30 on MAX!
TBH... You'd expect an army of the entire known universe to be pretty large. It's fleet alone could take up the entire airspace of a few planets. I still don't see how one planet could stand out against entire known universe
In dune, It mostly has to do with the way that space travel works, with the spacing guild holding an insanely tight grip on transport. Even the emperor, with his endless riches, can only afford to bring an army that size due to how much the guild prices mass transport. in the first movie, we see that the Baron, who had been sucking the arrakis dry fr 50+ years, all but used up his spice reserves in paying for such a large movement of troops. The spacing guild makes it incredibly expensive to move warriors and military equipment, and in that way conflicts are kept to a minimum. There may be millions of sarakacur on their home planet, but the emperor can only afford to bring his best.
In our day an age, a world power has interests all over the world, which requires its forces to be spread all over the world. It can't dedicate all of its forces or even the majority of them to a specific location. A similar reality would probably apply to a power at larger scales (eg a solar system, galaxy, etc). In addition, Dune is a unique situation. In the Dune universe, the planet Dune is a strategically unique planet that is the only source of the most strategically important resource of that era, aka the Spice. Basically if this were to suddenly become unavailable, the economy of the Universe stops working. The trains stops working, Christmas and Netflix gets cancelled and everything collapses. Paul Atreides is basically telling everybody who would oppose him, keep away or Spice production stops.
@coltonsmith5997 On top of that, it was more of a bodyguard fleet anyway. An attack of this scale was never anticipated, they went here for the Harkonnens. It would be the equivalent of the president having the entire army behind them wherever they went. I'm sure the Sardaukar are waging war in multiple other places in the universe as this happens.
Paul threatened to destroy the Spice that all those armies, navigators, and nobles were addicted to. Plus a orbital bombardment likely destroys Spice production as well. Paul had them by the balls. Plus, the Houses that side early likely get favor. The Emperor and his Sardaukar lost, and all those Houses were scared shitless of the Emperor.
Unos años antes Rabban tenía de prisionero a Gunray y le hizo una marca en la cara para divertirse, años después sin barrotes y nada que lo pare el mismo tipo al que torturó y dio por muerto esta frente a él, es obvio que estaba temblando y su defensa fué con miedo de otro modo correría a enfrentarlo y no lo esperaría parado. Muy distinto a Gunray que en pijamas y con muchos enemigos frente a él esbozo una sonrisa y cargo a sus enemigos.
apparently the shield wall took the brunt of it, since use of atomics directly against humans is cause for planetary annihilation. In this context, atomics were used to blast the shield wall, not humans, so it was okay.
I noticed how the movie and the studio were so so careful not to mention the actual word that means holy war, which means jihad that’s because that word is loaded with political tensions from the early 2000s but that is the word that Frank Herbert uses to describe the holy war, the Jahad but considering in the 1960s, Iran and Iraq were up-and-coming, developmental first world countries I feel like it was a different meaning then.
It’s a loaded word that Western audiences are too delicate to handle it. The film took a lot of Arab cultural influences that are in the book out of the film. I am sure the studio heads had a lot to do with that. Islamophobia is what Hollywood loves to promote. Don’t get me wrong I love the film but the source material is so much deeper and meaningfully. But you gotta dumb it down for the masses!!!
why didn't the air support circle around the middle? get off a few shots, circle back. send a few ships forward , keep the rest circling instead they all go head first into the sandstorm........silly pilots
This point is actually explained very clearly in the book, and it disappoints me that it was left out. A couple of lines of dialogue/exposition and they could have included it. In the books, all the great houses honor an atomic agreement/treaty (has a specific name in the books, can't remember) that no house shall use atomic weapons against humans. And that any house to violate this treaty will be ganged up on and destroyed by the combined effort of the rest of the houses in the universe. It's like the number one rule all the houses in the universe agree to, else it would be complete chaos. Paul makes it clear that most of the great houses nuclear arsenals could wipe out life on dozens of planets, but that the houses honor the atomic agreement very strictly, and trying so would be suicide for that house. In the final showdown in the book, the emperor even tells Paul that he violated the treaty by using Atomics against his soldiers, and Paul clarifies and said he used them only against the rocks that were blocking his way, and not on any humans themselves. Though I'm not sure if the soldiers who got crushed by the giant boulders flung out by the nuclear explosion would count as violating the treaty lol, maybe that's why they left it out of the movie.
@@bweis47 If they were serious about just blowing up the emperor & screw the consequences then they could just laser the shields & let the resulting explosion kill them all.
@@sonamtashi7706 you need the shields down before the laser. Lasering without the shields would have killed everybody. The target and the gunman. Plus, he also needed the emperor alive so he could publicly recognize Paul as the newly appointed emperor simultaneously wedding his daughter so as to not come off as a conqueror to the other great houses to legitimize his usurp of the throne
2 small critiques I had for the worm riding....1- theres absolutely no way Stilgar would've heard Paul when he road past him in a separate scden 2- traveling on the worms back and shouting a war cry with your mouth open like that would be so impossible you'd choke on the sand
The shield wall is what they call the mountain range surrounding them, it shields them from worms and reduces the effect of the storms so it needed to be broken with nukes
Looking straight at an "atomic" explosion is a pretty bad idea. 😮 Sandworms move forward very fast but their body shape is static. They must have high speed treads on the bottom. 😝 Nothing like an old-fashioned melee sword battle to give your sci fi film a medieval vibe. 🥴 Love the ornithopters though. 😀
They do, but it's the age old problem: joints and unions. Look at where they strike. Necks, underarm, waist/chest union, back of knees... no one fighting an armoured opponent goes for chest.
I believe the books actually have a reason why the Fremen knives pierce the Sardaukar armor so easily It is said that each Crysknife made from a tooth of Shai-Hulud and due to that fact it's sharpness is unparalleled, and before you say anything Shai-Hulud aka the worms routinely eats gigantic spice harvesters Why didn't they discuss or show it in film? Because it wasn't necessary, some people like you are obviously going to nitpick but for most they probably won't care
@@magicalmagicmagician5223 I do remember the origins of the knife, but no recolection of the sharpness. Besides, look at the fights who don't involve Fremen. The fighters go mostly for slashing; Duncan's fight ends in stabings (on both sides) but they are not wearing armour.
@@jlvfr again knives from the teeth of an animal that routinely eats GIANT METAL HARVESTERS, I don't think sharpness is issue here With Gurney it makes sense he mostly stabs since he is probably still using Atredies standard issue or other imperial salvaged blades designed for that sort of work (stabbing, cutting, etc)
So they all just board the ships and take off to conquer the galaxy.. but no one considers logistics.. I mean.. is there food and water on those ships?
1) These are the same ships that brought the Sardaukar to Dune, they sure have accomodations. 2) Fremen are extremely frugal with their ressources. If anything they will face an overabundance.
Do you really expect people to sit through Paul discussing logistics lines, rations and whatever else? Not everything has to nitpicked my dude, you might enjoy that sort of content but most don't
In the book Sardaukar Attack a Fremen Place in which there are only women, elders and children They get slaughtered and the few Survivors Need flamethrowers to escape
From what I understand, the Sardaukar had been in decline for quite some time because of arrogance and overconfidence. Then add that the Fedaykin is supposed to be better than the sardaukar to start with, and you get this royal whooping.
I'm assuming because of the sandstorm that is fast approaching, the nukes, and the fact that he was in the pyramid/ziggurat like structure not in the ship above
Rabban's death sucked. Better in Dune 1984 where the emperor simply had Rabban beheaded for his incompetence. That was a suitably humiliating end for the beast Rabban.
Because he wanted to find out why the harkonnen were failing to keep up with the spice supplies, the fremen harassing them left and right. it was also a bit of plot to get the baron nephew in place. the space guild was pissed off, which made the emperor pissed off which made the gesserit on edge. it was a long play of who could embarrass who, never seeing that Paul was behind it all (or never believing that a bunch of sand people could trash the so called best warriors in the galaxy, and well they didn't think anyone would be crazy enough to ride a worm)
Because he's jealous and his daughter played him. Irulan deduced that Paul Atreides was Muad'Dib and was forging a powerbase that could overthrow her father's control. To make sure that she remained in power, she made sure to set up her father to be overthrown so she could become a valuable political marriage to Paul. To make sure the emperor went along with this, she argued that the Harkonnen's had let the Muad'Dib insurgency go on too long such that even if they killed Muad'Dib, he would become even more powerful in death as a martyr for his movement. The fighting would never stop and everyone would blame the emperor for the problems with spice production when the truth about the Atreides' demise and the emperor's involvement in it came out. The emperor, who is jealous and insecure, was swayed by the idea that he could swoop down on to Arrakis, punish the Harkonnens, and have the Sardaukar enforce a new peace. That way, the emperor has saved the spice flow, eliminates two major threats to his rule, and is popular with all those who threaten him. The emperor underestimates the power of faith and the potential might of the Fremen because he always follows the "cold calculus of power", so he sees the Harkonnens as his major concern, and the Fremen as a nuisance that his elite troops can easily put down. Irulan correctly figures out that Paul is anticipating the emperor acting like this, so her plan not only ousts her own father for his weakness but also makes sure she's at the right place at the right time. After all, Paul will want to marry the emperor's daughter to humiliate the man who killed his father and to give himself legitimacy as a new emperor.
How? Dune was never gory or overtly sexual (at least until god emperor and beyond). Making it R rated wouldnt add anything to it. Hell I dont even remember swearing in the books
@@oroboros88 what are you thinking of? Like Deadpool or the walking dead levels of gore? No. Having gore doesnt mean it can’t be done masterfully. pg13 is holding it back from what it could be. You dont think the fighting choreography could be improved let alone enhanced with mature, not unnecessary levels of gore? It’s already exploring mature themes like cannibalism. You can’t show more brutality in the fighting? It looks more like dancing. Like the stakes arent high. These are supposed to be the most fiercest and brutal fighting forces in a universe And dont get me wrong. Part one is my favorite movie since it came out.
@@andrewstanley the fighting is pretty much how melee fighting looks and is IRL between skilled fighters, watch HEMA fights to get an idea. This is like 1000s of years of blade fighting/h2h knowledge compressed into the first few books. The fedaykin, bg and sarduakar especially. You wont see drawn out gritty fights, that's not how frank wrote them logically. Its quick and concise. Not much blood either, you wont see alot irl unless you hit a major vessel. I dont expect walking dead levels of gore either. It's probably more realistic than anything.
@@oroboros88 also not to mention how the revelation of Lady Jessica being The Barrons daughter and how Paul is half Harkonnen fell COMPLETELY short. Because they didn’t expound enough about the supposed BRUTAL centuries long feud between the two houses; which some more explicit R-rating couldve helped convey. Overall, from what was displayed on screen, the Harkonnen felt like they were retarded
@@oroboros88 the line between realism and stylization I think detracts from what I would prioritize as maximizing the most impact out of the scenes. I mean, it’s already a grandiose science-fiction; many elements are arguably hardly realistic (e.g. is traversing through the radiation left behind 3x atomic bombs really a great idea? Is it really realistic to jump, roll and tumble a lot during fights? And risking all the many things that could go wrong by going to the ground unnecessarily. This is the fight for one’s life, not parkour.) If I wanted to watch realistic melee combat, I’d watch those Russian Medieval fighting videos. This is a movie. An Epic. But in terms of the fighting... I was thinking moreso along the lines of the film Gladiator for how they made the fights so dramatic and theatrical, while giving the ‘impression’ of realism. Key word ‘impression’. I dont see why they couldnt pull inspiration from that. There was rolling and tumbling there too, but it felt more realistic and as if more was at stake. It’s not like there were heads being chopped off and waterfalls of blood all over the place. In dune, all the jumping, rolling and tumbling were style choices anyways. Might as well make it look good. I think an R-Rating could’ve also helped IMMENSELY with showing the ‘supposed’ brutality of the Harkonnen. This would’ve given more context as to why Gurney hated Rabban so much. Not to mention create more impact with the revelation of Jessica being Barron’s daughter and Paul being half-harkonnen and why they were supposed to hate each other so much. This was also due to the fact that they didn’t expound on the centuries-long feud between the two houses. Much of their [Harkonnen’s] on-screen time conveyed that they were opportunistic and incompetent, e.g. needing help from the Sardaukar to defeat The Atreides. THE SARDAUKAR, even with their limited screen-time gave off more an impression of brutality than the Harkonnen. Other things I’d criticize include the casting of Christopher Walken and the feyd ratha guy. They did such a fantastic job with casting the likes of Lady Jessica and The Reverend Mother and The Barron… so casting those two just made the whole thing feel like a joke (not to mention the Emperor's regalia). I’d imagine the emperor of the known universe having more presence like Anthony Hopkins rendition of Odin in Thor. If they wanted a serious maniacal d-bag… maybe pull inspiration from Michael Shannon’s General Zod in Man of Steel… but more immature and youthful. I was very disappointed with Part 2 since I loved Part 1 so much. This was the only movie I was looking forward to and the only movie Ive seen all year. And I think partly why I loved Part 1 so much, was because there wasn’t as much of an emphasis on the fighting, so I let it go, even though I felt the same way about it, as I do with Part 2.
That's only natural when you adapt such a massive multi-layered story into a few movies. A multi-season series with days worth of screentime like Game of Thrones (before it become bad) would be more fitting to cover all themes and subplots.
