Ford EEC-IV No Spark Diagnostics 

Doing electrical part of my course, this helps so much thank you mang 🙏🏾

It's amazing how Caleb can now anticipate what you are going to say and point the camera where it needs to be without you even telling him. Great job guys!

Love watching you do what you do. Hope you and your brother and son and his baby is all well. Keep me in your prayers I'm having having heart problems again and I'll be going back to hospital for heartsergry again. God bless you all and keep up the good work

Aw hell, now you're in my early days. When I started in auto repair, there were more carbs on the road than there was fuel injection. Actually Gm went to TBI in the Silverados the year I started my career. This is the stuff I cut my teeth on. ;)

Man the good old days when we used to go to LaTours garage and you’d b out in the parking lot with your truck backed up to the car. Tripod for a lot of the vid. But we would get the shot of the burned O2 wire laying on the exhaust manifold. I love all those old vids!! And I go back and watch them regularly. There’s gold in them there vids!!

Paul, Great diagnosis/explanation on the good old EEC-IV - thank you! Those PIP units are such a pain to replace as you need to remove the distributor gear which is pinned and pressed on. Probably replacing the entire distributor is the most cost effective solution. Paul (in MA)

Great diagnostic video on a good old Ford.Never get tired of these diagnostics videos.Stay safe everyone.

Nice. I recently fixed an intermittent hesitation/no start in my 1988 Bronco II (that I bought new in 1987) by replacing the distributor. I used a break-out box and oscilloscope to monitor the PIP and SPOUT voltages, and the primary ignition current at the coil. When it died the PIP voltage decreased and took out the SPOUT and primary ignition completely. One of your earlier videos clued me in to the likelihood of the distributor Hall effect sensor being the likely culprit, so many thanks for that.

When I was 16 I used to have to start my 88 Ford ranger by jumping the solenoid connections with a screwdriver. It was a manual. one time I left it in gear and it drove into a telephone pole 🤦‍♂️

It's been awhile since I've seen you work/diag on one of these old trucks. Great stuff bro. Done many of those pick up coils..Had a feeling that's where this was going when you said a new coil and IGM already been shot at it. 😄 Surprisingly these PIPs are still available yet from Ford (E9TZ12A112A) I have found a few things that are getting hard to find tho. Thanks again Paul and of course..if she's still reading all the comments. "Hi Mom"... Hope your doing well. Wanna see you in another video again soon. take care. ☺

ah the ford module!!! was it a 7/32 socket or a 9/32 socket? and you had to grind it down all the way around to fit in the hole!!!!... never forget dy-electric grease between the module and the heat sink!!!

Truck sitting for 2 weeks, replaced all you mentioned, now distributor. Thanks so much!

I can't say thank you enough for this video!! I just had an 89 Bronco w a 5.8l that just flat died on me like you shut the ignition off. Using your method and your tests, quickly figured out it was a bad ICM and pick-up. Couldn't condemn the coil at 1st bc w icm unplugged, I had good pwr in and out of coil, BUT when I plugged icm in, the bright test light on the control side of coil went dim. Anyway (sorry for rambling), it wound up needing dist assy w module, and a coil. Once I had coil control restored, still no spark from it. New coil on, truck ran like a champ! How can I ever repay all the great information......thank you! God bless!

Having mechanic skills slim to none, I wish I had a mechanic this knowledgeable and trustworthy as this guy near where I live. Having an issue with my 96 f150 4.9. Turns on just fine when cooled then after some driving just shuts right off and won’t turn back on till it’s completely cooled down

Nice video. That fan without the shroud can ruin your day quickly. Specially for all the people wearing hoodies and draw strings swinging around. I worked with a guy that was putting a fuel filter on a crane and was holding on to the radiator shroud to support himself and the operator pushed the starter button. I was really impressed with the guy not choking the operator with his other good hand. His nick name was big Al and he was a hand to hand combat instructor in the Marine Corps. 😁😁

WoW amazing SD, you made it look so easy to fix, Superb as usual👍 I've never worked on these, bcuz when I started as a Tech most of these were probably parked permanently, but I've always wished to master these previous gen systems, they're fun to work on😉 Special Thanks to Caleb & James Danner👍 Stay Safe Guy's❤

Awesome video SD!!!!

Nice brother., Like you, I have worked on tons of the EEC IV systems. You can change the pickup on them, but the time involved to take apart the distributor isn't worth it. I think the puller kit is still someplace at the my shop for these.

I have an 89 F250 and 89 Lincoln Mark VII. I'm becoming an expert in these systems quickly.. both vehicles had a habit of just quitting unpredictably and then coming back to life after cooldown. Considering a remote mount kit for my ignition modules if they fail again.

I remember those days Paul. Flashbacks. The negative side of the coil should of flashed if the pickup was good. Right? Hello Caleb and Danner. 👍👍

I did a 92 f150 5.0 no spark 2 years ago no spark. The first thing I did was pull the distributor cap and the inside of the distributor was alot of rust inside so I replaced that it started and ran but with 200,000 miles on it I replaced module and coil so there wouldn't be any problems.

Thank you I'll check mine having same issue on foxbody I relocated ignition module behind strut tower but had my bolted down lol

ScannerDanner The god of troubleshooting

That's handy, a ratchet hammer. That electrical diagram brings back memories of when my son had an ignition problem with an old Ford Ranger 4-banger. It would not start with the SPOUT wire connected but it ran fine if you first started the engine and then connected the SPOUT wire. Never did figure it out he ran the truck like that until some lady fell asleep at the wheel on the DC beltway, t-boned his truck and totaled it.

Bro, I don't know jack about auto electrical but your changing that! Freakin love the videos!! Keep the amazing job!!

Hello, Thank you first of all for posting all these excellent videos. You are clearly an expert mechanic that is very hard to find these days as most mechanics these days don't have the knowledge of how things work and all what they do is change parts. I have a real good one for you. I have a 1991 F150 5.8L engine with 123k miles on it that I bought from a chief pilot at United Airline. Anyway, I drove the truck over 800 miles and drove like brand new. I parked it for a week and when I tried to start it, it wouldn't start. I watched your video and I said to myself I can follow your method to figure out the problem. Note that About 2 months ago, the ECM went bad and I took the ECM out and was able to fix it and it was the same issue with the capacitors going bad. Anyway, I followed your approach looking to decide whether I have spark at the coil. To my surprise, there was a spark at the coil but not much at the spark plugs so I replaced distributor cap and rotor but to my surprise, the engine still wouldn't start even though I have a spark at spark plugs end. So now I am thinking I have a fuel problem but giving that I have dual tank, it is highly unlikely that both pumps are bad. Hence, I replaced the fuel filter and again the truck failed to start no matter how much I cranked it. Next , using a new fuel pressure gauge, I measured the fuel pressure and it was around 41 PSI so fuel is no longer a possible problem and I am out of options till I disconnected the 2 hoses to air filter and noticed that intake is completely closed. So now I started to think that may be the fuel mixture and spark plugs are flooded giving all the attempts to start it for the last 7 days. To make the story short, I pressed on gas pedal all the way which forced intake to be wide open to outside air and not going through air filter and after few attempts, the truck finally started. It ran rough for the first 30 minutes of drivings and after that the truck is back now running like brand new, idles and drives beautifully. I am glad the truck is running again but have no idea what caused the no start problem in the first place. This only happened to me once before but the truck started back then after letting it sit for few hours but not this time. One thing to note is when the truck was sitting for a week outside we had very high humidity for few days but not sure if humidity is a factor. I would very much appreciate your input on what really was the problem. Again, thanks to you, not only i was able to get the truck going without having to wait 10 days for the dealer to look at but I am sure I also saved myself over $1000. The dealers in Chicago area charge extra 25% if your vehicle is old and many don't want to work on it. Look forward to your reply, ANJ P.S. Are your classes available online to take? If not why not? I would live to take your classes. Also, do you do remote consulting for a fee?

Love it when my notification has a blue dot glowing on SD 😎 Can we hope for a Saturday vid also?? 😉😎

IIRC, the spout connection was unplugged to allow the PIP signal to directly fire the ICM to set distributor timing. Disconnecting the spout was also a handy way to determine whether it was a PIP or PCM problem.

Hi ScannerDanner Is there any posibility I could get a link to buy Relay jump starter kit.I am living in uk.I tryied Amozon Ebay I couldn`t find the same stuff.I really like your videos.Great stuuff.

I would pull the fan belt for troubleshooting as it should not get hot in 3 to 5 minutes of running, and you can pull on wires and pound on modules safely. Of course, reinstall it once you are done!

Thanks Paul and cal for this Video. Very interessting Video. Thanks from germany. All good for you and your Family. LG.

I have a 1997 f350 dually 460, I’ve tested the wiring down the grey orange wire to ensure continuity to the computer from the ignition control module, I tested with a test light both sides of the coil -+ sides and have voltage there, i tried jumping the pip wire with the test light as shown in the video and using the coil wire and spark tester i get no spark, when i unplug the icm jumper plug i get spark, the icm has power to it and it is a black module not grey, originally i swapped a distributor out of my other truck that runs and still had no spark nor injector trigger, i did also swap out my eec with the same running truck and still at the same result. I’ve ensured all the fuses have power and the eec computer has power and ground. I’m sure I’m missing something obvious, I’m open for any questions

A very appropriate teaching with experience and safety. To augment (Naval Aviation Electronics Advanced Maintenance) working radar, experienced a common FAILURE caused by a weakening magnetic FAILURE! With an elderly motor, it's likely the same weakening of the magnetic field of the distributor rotor shaft is getting below the engineered limits of the HALL EFFECT (a semiconductor) to perform. That limit would be sensitive and influenced by a variety of varying influences, creating the "confusion" of intermittent! (Heat of varying mechanical spacing, heat effecting magnetic strength, heat effecting the sensitivity of the HALL EFFECT semiconductor AND the COMBINATIONS, etc.)

Awesome video, thanks man

the sad truth is the parts are still available and so cheap its almost worth it to shoot the parts cannon because most of todays techs never worked on these and the diag labor alone will be the same as the parts

Seems like we might see new 2020 Ford Bronco models on your channel guys as well, probably soon) Great video!

ignition module not cleanly mounted on heatsink(with thermal transfer grease) will overheat and die in mere seconds to minutes, depending on ambient temps. overzealous screw tightening, can warp the heatsink and module both, making them not have good contact except at the outer edges and yet again self kill in short order! been there done that, long ago. many of the GM setups had the same issue, with module on heatsink near coil and internal distributor mounted ones, both. after the factory module died, a "yinyang" often repaired and caused the replacement to fail quickly(did that once also), but being into electronics and most all mechanicals, I figured out my err real fast :)

Sometimes the connection to the ignition module, the Pip connection can be corroded... placing your tester in the connector sometimes scrapes just enough of the corrosion away to allow it to run... just a thought.

They don't make them like they used to. This truck shouldn't be in a junkyard. Not for another 30 years. The new 2021 Ford Broncos will be in the junkyard within 10 years. Great video Danner!

Great stuff fellas! Good to see you. I've been taking a breather from auto related stuff both here and on RU-vid. No fault of anyones - just needed to step back and breathe a bit. Modern cars still frustrate the crap out of me. Just when I think I've got a handle on it, 3 in a row will come in and mop my ass! I think I'm going to stick with what I'm good at, and that's carburetors, points, or old school electronic ignitions like this system here. Going to pick my battles with modern stuff much more carefully going forward. Still running this exact system in our '86 Grand Marquis. I had this same failure back in '07, but without troubleshooting knowledge or patience, I replaced both the EEC module and the pickup. I had a 50/50 shot of getting it, but I'm not a gamblin' man, LOL. Oh, I meant to mention that EEC module needs heat conducting compound on the back of it, wherever it's mounted - heat sink or distributor body, for anyone that's reading. I'm sure you already know this. She's still running great to this day, closing in on 290K miles. Getting ready to park her for the winter, whenever the first road salting happens (or if it even has the potential of happening). We'll be hitting 300k next summer more than likely. Still has the 100% original driveline. Transmission has only had fluid & filter changes. Even has the ORIGINAL in-tank electric fuel pump ... and I ran the ORIGINAL plugged up fuel filter for 14 years, since I had forgotten I had never changed it!! I couldn't hardly blow through it when I removed it! Try that with a modern fuel pump, lol. Anyone that thinks new cars are "better", I beg to differ. ;)

I can say I rarely replaced PIP sensors. but I made sure there was good plugs, wires cap/rotor at first sign of anything amuck. high voltage fireworks inside the cap = PIP death! GM was more famous for secondary ignition issues killing the coils and that smacking the module, which was then self inflicted short life after from over-torque and bending.

Awesome!! Same problem with my 88 ford tbird..great video!!!

You are a great teacher

Scannerdanner I would love to be like you

Brilliant thought process as always

I had a crank crank no start 85 mustang. It blew me that the 5v reference was floating all over the place. Turned out the only ground for the computer was a single wire that had rotted off the battery terminal.

Thank you Dan .

To get to the " Distributor Ignition Pickup" you have to take the distributor completely apart. Believe it or not you can get the part online, really cheap. But I found it to be quicker if you just drop in a new distributor. That's why I love Fords, you can get practically any and every part online. Their parts are almost always cheaper than any other maker, for a comparable part.

The wiring diagram shows that the PCM can monitor the coil negative terminal through a 22K resistor. It would be interesting to see if it set a DTC. Also, given the high idle speed, I figure the base ignition timing is over advanced.

Great diagnostics, thank you, but… 92’ e350 5.8l, diagnostics pointed to bad ICM, replaced and same results. Read to pull PCM harness plug and test for spark, it did spark indicating bad PCM. Pulled and opened PCM and sure enough one of the blue transistors(?) corroded and came off when touched.

Help trouble shoot issue: 1994 Ford F-150 5.0 automatic. Issue: running rich, allot of black smog coming from the exhaust and strong smell of gas. Does not seem to be switching gears, RPM are almost hitting 4,000 running at 55 mph. Parts I’ve changed so far; - EGR Valve - cleaned out the Trottle body - TPS sensor - IAC sensor - O2 sensor - PCV Valve - MAF sensor - distributor - plugs - ignition coil - ICM - air filter - fuel pump front and rear - canister purge valve - vacuum lines - oil change - Temp Sensor - fuel pressure regulator

Now that was easy Awesome lesson video.

Thanks. And old cars are awesome 🥃

Scanner Dunner u are the man lov watching yo vids my man I wish if u were here in SA too was gona bring my Mercedes w203 c240 v6 giving me headeck with misfiring on cylinder 1,2 n 3

There is a section in the Ford service proceedure on those revolving around disconnecting the spout, jumping the spout and disconnecting the ECM. In my batch fire 5.0 we had an issue where the ecm advanced/ retarded the timing randomly (and) there are issues in those ECM's with dried out caps. If I recall those will throw spark with ECM disconnected asa the coil works off of a feedback between module and ECM. In my case we had spark, fuel, timing and compression and would not fire with ether.

Paul please please do more newer European cars for us people across the pond. Stay safe and thank-you

Some years ago I owned vaz 2109. It had ignition module generating square wave signals upon hall sensor pulses. It was mentioned in the manual to ensure the hull of module securely fastened to the car body. So I sometimes applied multimeter lead to the hull of module and the other to the car body. In case of poor contact with the body it showed some value. And the second, in case of bad contact with the battery the module unrecoverably damaged. So it was prohibited to unfasten the battery leads when engine is running. I remember I touched the insulation sheath of central wire with bare hand while engine running and have some discharge run through me, some moments engine was choking and then recovered. I was wondering that the sheath of a hot wire carries some high potential charge on its surface and could harm someone if exposed or touched.

Hey Paul, I noticed that when you dropped the paper on the ground at 2:10 - 2:20 the paper was still clean. That tells me the oil spill was dry from a different vehicle.

The TFI heatsink does not need to be grounded to the sheet metal for a ground return. However, it is usually mounted to sheet metal that is a cooler spot within the engine compartment to further reduce TFI temperatures. PIP = Profile Ignition Pickup output is usually pulled up to VBAT. I think I would have put a scope on PIP before trying to manually spark the coil. For the side mounted TFIs with the large heatsink mount I think the distributor pickup fails at about the same rate as the TFI, maybe even more. To be more specific the PIP output is a conditioned window hall effect circuit, which compared to a simple reluctor wheel like in a GM distributor circuitry is prone to failures.

Rudimentary electric knowledge is required for type IV systems. Great job waking up that old girl. Sure she'll be better than new after the Hall-effects is replaced.

I once had a distributor stator that would only fail after the engine warmed up, and then I'd have to sit on the side of the road for it to cool before it would start again. It took ages to track down.

I have a 96 F150 with a 1351 after replacing the icm. The icm doesnt need to be grounded but it definitely needs the heat sink so it won't burn up.

So what would the problem be if you've already replaced the pickup coil the ignition coil the ignition module and it still has no spark? I can induce spark with a pin stuck into the PIP wire and a test light off the negative side of the battery... I can also produce spark with the old ignition module plugged into the trucks wiring harness and the old pickup coil plugged into that and running my pocket knife blade through the pick-up coil.. but when I pulled the distributor out of the motor and plug that into the trucks wiring harness and ground the distributor to the battery using a jumper cable it gets no spark however I did notice that by touching the distributor housing with the grounded battery cable it creates park in the same way the test light create spark when touched against the PIP wire.

Hi Mr danner I have a ford in Australia 93 model using same ecu 4 in a 6.i done all in vid only thing with mine is spourt only 1.34 v at dizzy connector and at pin on ecu. Every thing else is in spec still won't fire but has spark from coil with lead and plug as soon as you hook it to distributor no spark.down test light on pip fired pump relay injectors but no spark.is it pick up ,ecu.just ask for your opion im trying not to be a part changer.peace

I live in Phoenix and I drive in 110°-115° and that ICM has never been an issue on mine

Yes, you can buy the pick-up and not the whole distributor. Just bought a Motorcraft pick-up a few months ago. Much better than any aftermarket parts.

I ran all these checks and it was extremely helpful. So glad there are people like you out there to provide this simple yet extremely effective information out there and to do it for free! But I do have one question, I’m testing on a 97 f250 5.8 and was checking with a test light on the coil positive and negative wires for that flicker you talk about, I have flicker on the negative side but not the positive. Does this indicate anything that you know of? Or is this normal? Again thanks for this I’ll definitely be subscribing and following and pass along to anyone else I know, cause this was very basic, the tools used are cheap and the basic knowledge like you said is invaluable and spreads across all makes, models and years. Greatly appreciated!

Love your videos. Thanks !

I just had a 98 Chevy 1500 5.7 come in with no spark after putting a motor in, they did cap, rotor, coil, and module. Control was missing, no crank signal(they had already replaced ckp also) the trigger wheel was missing. When whoever put the motor transfered covers and such they forgot the reluctor for the crank.

I have no power to cab no headlights nothing had smoke under dash ground wire for windshield wipers burnt down caused issue good battery any thoughts thanks

You should always pop the cap off the distributor and verify rotor rotation. It was not uncommon to see a broke or twisted distributor driveshaft or gear fail.

Also hooking up a battery charger on medium can uncover a defective hall effect. Charging system voltage versus battery.

On my 90 f150 4.9 liter the ice is mounted on the distributor. I should be able to connect my test light to the pos on the battery and probe to the pip wire(being the top wire?) and with a spark tester between the distributor and coil I should see a spark. Correct? I've been leaning toward the pickup coil being my no spark issue

I got a 96 7.5… new coil, solenoid, and ignition module. Starts once in a blue moon but wont run more than 5 mins then wont start again. The yellow/tan wire on the coil plug does not light up so its not getting power. Tested the resistance and the wire is fine. When i did the pip wire thing i got spark, then it started. Then after i turned off i tried the pip wire again and no spark. what am i missing?

What I am really learning here is that your Brother needs to take your class!? I am sure he would be your top student! lol jk. Dude is awesome. Wish you did more work on these old Fords because I am always working on my Dad's 1988 F-150 I6 4.9L.

That’s the stuff I learned on. Oh, good times. Peace

You are indeed a pro

Loving these videos. mad respect 🙏🏻

Hi I’ve taken the relay out of my discovery 2 for the air compressor Will there still be power and ground to the compressor

Hi Paul. I'M A HUGE FAN! LOL. As I was watching I thought of another variable for a no signal. Wouldn't a broken timing chain or sheard distributor gear pin also cause a no signal from the pickup. PLEASE LET ME KNOW. Thanks 👍

I have a question and need some guidance. When the key is on, engine off, the back side of the ICM where the thermal paste is applied gets so hot within seconds that you’ll burn yourself. 95 ford f150 302, 5.0 Any ideas?

I think back in the day if the TFI module was deemed bad Ford recommended changing the pick up coil in the distributor as well. I don't remember why, maybe if one fails it takes out the other or something, not sure exactly. At least this one is over near the fender and not mounted to the distributor. Ford had a huge recall on those because of heat failures making them conk out. I think in later years it was moved to where this one is. Those pickups are replaceable but you have to pull the distributor, take the roll pin out that holds the gear on and take the old one off and install new. I can't remember if the gear was a press fit or not.

Hello, Paul. Do you think that an ignition coil can be cooked by an oil leak from a leaky tube seal? If yes. could you please explain how that happens?

Hi Paul, I'm jumping in a little from left field, but I've got a 2009 2.3L Ford Mondeo/Fusion that's a crank no start with no ECM codes and an ABS module Yaw Sensor code, lost comm with Steering Angle Sensor and Invalid data from ECM. I'm only interested in the no start and I don't think any ABS codes will cause a no start. But I have a vague memory of you saying some Fords with faulty CKPs will not set any CKP or CMP code? Is my memory right? But a 2009 model?? Just keen on your thoughts to help direction.

The ignition module in my 87 T-Bird is on the distributor and over the years I've had two of them fail while driving. Are there kits for remote-mounting them?

I've got a 7.5 that has voltage to injectors but no ground at injector connector. replaced control module on distributor. Any suggestion would be appreciated I'm stumped.

I have a coil spark to ground, enough to stop your heart, but nothing to distributor , hence no spark at plugs. Any help? And of course, ty

Hey I have a question, I was recalibration my tps, when I noticed my top wire(blk/w) was acting as my signal wire. So I tested the ACT and ECT to find they were acting as my signal wire. This is on a 1990 ford bronco II 2.9l. Do you have any suggestions?

my 89 f250 is having the same issue, i havent tested it but vvould it be a distribuator?

just one(1) thing,u should have put the old mod that was inside truck on,just to see if it ran with it or not.was it a parts chaner or a part on the problem???that's all thank you...

Great video.

lovely video. smart man

Great info!!

Pull the Spout connector see if it starts

Go Danner!!!!

I'm helping a friend who has the same problem he has changed everything pick up coal Ignation module and coil and still no spark but you can hear the fuel pump run what would you do

Hey scanner, question I'm dealing with a 90 f150 5.0 . Starter shorted internal . Whipped out starter and solenoid. Replaced both. Now i have crank with no fuel or spark . I have run some quick voltage tests most all this checked out good no broken or burnt wires that I can see . could this potentially be a cause for my issue? Any suggestions or common things you've seen on these?

Hi Paul and everyone, I know question is not related to video. Can by any chance a scan tool(cheap) damage pcm I've heard so saying it does any info on that

Great info.

Hey Paul, real quick. How do we find out if the hall effect signal is a pull up or pull down? As always appreciate your time and your videos filled with knowledge and humor. :)