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Sam Centeno It’s the curse of being The Interrupted One. Woolie knows the pain of being constantly cut off by Pat and others, and seeks to save others from that pain, even though they heap it upon him.
That phrase, in almost any context, unless it's spoken as a genuine observation of someone else's attitude; one worthwhile, better example is saying "they don't seem to care," and not the observer's own, which is the worse, very dubious "I don't care;" has the same status, energy, viability, category, tier, and legitimacy as *"I'm not a racist but...."*
If Billy steals all the footage for an entire lets play and uploads it to his own channel, technically Billy provides us with a better service than Pat.
That's exactly Pat's point, which I think is true. If the footage is out on Billy's channel then that's the better service, because at one there is and at the other there isn't. Don't forget to mention that in this analogy people are super mad at Billy for stealing. One of Pat's points also mentions that if you wanna be a pissbaby who's mad at Billy, you should also be mad at Pat for allowing the footage to be stolen and not doing anything at all to alleviate the situation with Billy. That's the only reasonable thing Pat has stated. The whole thing with releasing early to compete with the better service is just a bad method to alleviate the situation, it's selfish, it's morally wrong, it's unreasonable, but it's also understandable as a consumer and while I don't agree with him, I understand where he's coming from. In my own opinion Nintendo should try their best to minimize the damage by taking down leaks and such to try and alleviate the people who are super mad at leakers spoiling their stuff.
If people get angry at a situation like this, it's obviously because Billy's channel is blocked in their country and they're jealous since they won't see it before it's up on SBFP, rather than the idea that Billy broke integrity and is actively leeching views and content off the individuals that trusted him.
I know you are trying to relate this to what Gabe Newell said about piracy being a service problem, but he didn't mean that games being leaked early should cause companies to upend years of planning because some Mom and Pop store was careless. I mean Half-Life 2 had a huge leak problem, but they didn't solve it by releasing the game early. The got the thief/pirate arrested.
They also completely rebuilt the game so it did not resemble the leaked product whatsoever, which had its definite ups and downs and probably wasn't the best decision in the long run.
@@falguard Plus generally most game companies literally cant even afford to do that. I still have NO idea how in the world Valve never went bankrupt back then.
People might be misunderstanding what Pat means by saying the shit that he says and he's awful at wording it properly because he's Pat. Short version is Pat is giving shit to the people that are giving shit to the people that are just getting the game before it's out via leakers for doing the "immoral thing", because in his world if you paid for the game, you should totally be allowed to get it if it exists already, even if it's via shady means because you already bought it. Developers got your money? You got the game? Good, nothing to see here. That said he's not trying to start a revolution in the gaming industry or whatever. It's just old man yells at cloud, but it just so happens that a lot of people have a lot of emotions about the cloud in question, and he also has access to a platform that a lot of people listen to. Bees.
THANK YOU. I've been like. Yall are crazy. I understand the love for the game, but there really isnt' a huge deal as everyone blew this up to be. Money has been exchanged, services have been rendered. The only thing that changes is some arbitrary date and when people learn things about things.
Breaking street date *isn't* against the law; it does mean that the next time Nintendo releases a product, however, that the entire store chain will be intentionally overlooked--and, monetarily penalized--for breaking street date.
They should, but i have to say i kinda did this with brawl, i got it 3 days before release date but the retail worker was my friend that night we did a Smash party with 5 more friends we finished subspace unlocking everything we could and then played Versus but we didn't spoil people on the internet
How has Nintendo TAKEN your money for Smash? If you pre-ordered it, you made a conscious decision to spend your money while being well aware that the game comes out on the 7th. Some weirdo scheming his way into an early copy isn't the fault of Nintendo, but the fault of whichever store he got it from and the personnel involved.
I don't understand how a leaked copy is the "superior" one, they're the exact same game and if anything you probably won't even be able to play it online or get proper updates if Nintendo decides to act on it. Clearly the Mega Baby that is Pat is just screaming "Now! Now! Now!" even though he keeps saying that he "Doesn't care" just so he won't look like a complete crazy person (but he is)
Pat: "Pirates currently have a better version of the game and Nintendo have the power to remedy that." Matt: "But copyright strikes on RU-vid and also you think terrorists are good." Woolie: "I also have points that in no way relate to what Pat is (poorly) communicating but at least my own arguments are coherent and aren't just repeatedly pointing out that stealing is wrong." Viewer: "I am never getting these minutes of my life back and I'm going to send you 500 swords in the mail as retribution, fuckers."
Here's a fun game: if you skip to any, ANY, random point in the video, it will be either Pat stuttering on a word, or making an exasperated noise. Go on, see for yourself
@@nobrainfluid He actually said he was prepared to entirely ignore pat's rant at the beginning of the podcast, and if you check his twitter you can see him real time shit posting about Pat's rant.
@@iller3I mean Pat gladly admit he had a friend sell him an extra Switch (Or a different Console) that was pre ordered for someone else way early in it's release date.
DoctaDaKing Nintendo shouldn’t feel bad because one of their ungrateful children opened their Christmas presents early and proceeded to rub them in the faces of their brothers and sisters’ faces.
So basically its be mad at companies that put their pies out on the windowsill ready to eat but smack ur hands away from said pie cause" Fuck you you'll eat the pie on the approved day".
My biggest issue, is that someone's gonna post a fat spoiler as a RU-vid thumbnail, and because of YTs algorithm I'm going to see that while skimming my recommended videos.
Oh, the best thing was people in one of the discord servers I'm at openly talking and sharing pics about it. Ended having to block both the people and the server because of that. Pissed me off so bad.
I think Pat explained himself pretty well. He still relies on a weird strawman argument though. Anytime anyone brings up a good counter-point he's just like "I understand that but the people I'm arguing for are going to refuse to understand that." Meanwhile, the people he claims to be representing are nowhere to be found.
That stuff about fucking over retail workers having a bad day and causing an actual legitimate break in street date past his own needs just because he felt like it really does make Pat sound like a sociopath
Well from the sounds of it retail work seems to actually have messed with him on some level judging from this post he made www.reddit.com/r/TwoBestFriendsPlay/comments/a0ral1/i_think_retail_may_have_damaged_my_brain/?
Jesus, you don't appreciate how much effort the guys put into their audio setup until they bring a guest on and he sounds like a dude with throat-cancer screaming at you from the other end of your submarine. It's legitimately painful to listen to.
@@LightningZerker they explicitly instructed him at the start of the podcast to interrupt them as much as possible, as they do with all recent guests (presumably so the guests arent constantly silent)
@@VideoGaku123 Woolie also advised this to Reggie and Billy during his Naruto LP because Woolie said that he learned from the guys that unless you cut them off, you are almost never gonna be able to say your piece. I'd rather the guest be more active in the discussion than just shutting up for 30 minutes and wondering if he's still in the podcast because he can't butt in.
Pat didn't show up on the podcast playing a pirated copy of Smash even though he paid/preloaded it and the legal version is sitting on his Switch. Because PAT IS A COWARD.
Ok I'm so confused because Pat acknowledges the company having obligations to a release date but says they should ignore those obligations because selfish and impatient people will force their way. He acknowledges that it is shitty to leak content but doesn't care. This is such a weird argument.
His argument isn't that they should release it and ignore the obligations, his argument is that if people are mad at leakers because of X reason, they should be as mad/madder at Nintendo for Y which caused X.
No, he just doesn't care as a consumer. He explained at a later time that his time on retail completely fucked his view of company vs. consumer, to the point where he thought the consumer's actual job is to fuck the company as hard as possible, while the company's job is to keep consumers at bay. So when he says he knows the company needs to adhere to a release date but he doesn't care, he's basically being a shithead consumer.
@@Nuke-China But this is an entertainment medium problem as a whole. Does that suggest that any time I feel that leakers are wrong i also must blame the company for allowing the possibility of the leak due to lack of omnipotence.
Also in this instance the Y is that they preloaded the game but have to respect release date for physical copies. Which means we should be mad that digital users don't get to ignore release dates because some people will access the game early. It's the same point.
Okay, I've thought it over and here's what I suspect happened: Pat could not figure out why people were angry over a leak, so he created a false motive in his head, jealousy. People were angry that others were playing Smash before them. Under this logic, consumers should be angry at Nintendo for "punishing" them by not giving them access to something that leakers already have. The logical fallacy is that the anger is not rooted in jealousy, but morality. They are mad that someone did something immoral, disrespected the people that developed Smash, and created a tidal wave of spoilers. Using this correct logic, it is reasonable to be angry (or mildly annoyed) at leakers and sympathetic towards Nintendo (or Sakurai and his fellow developers). In short, Pat made a false premise, tried to turn it into a hypothetical, and fell flat on his face. Or maybe I'm just overthinking it.
Its not the first time pat threw morally-related reasons to the side to prioritize a non-existent reason cause in his little sick head people acting on and execising their morals is bananas and nonsense Pat is a very morally-challenged person
Apparently sakurai is the only dev in the industry who works hard or deserves respect. Especially immediately after telltale and rockstar and every other company being revealed to be assholes who force people to work forever for no recognition. Pat’s point is totally correct despite his usual hyperbole.
Pat: "The company should do this thing." Everyone: "But that would be damaging to the company and give them no real benefit." Pat: "I don't care about the company's well being, and neither should you." Everyone: 'Right, but the company does care about itself, and you're saying that it should do something that you agreed would be damaging to itself..."
I think a more coherent form of Pat's argument is "screw street dates."Brick and mortar stores are done for, once the game's done, just release it digitally and then ship out the physical copies later.
Nintendo was being a dumbass for even sending copy's out so damn early, causing it too leak early. Now explain succinctly how exactly this is NOT there fault?
@@Tensolin01 Hmm you could say the leak happened largely because of Nintendo, but I guess using the word "fault" makes it sound like there was some poor business decision on their part. There's a lot of demand for the game, and they can't just send out a fleet of trucks a day before release to meet that demand without other consequences.
@@AdmiralBetas That's what I thought too. Shipping early might be a standard practice for most if not all retail items to ensure every store is well stocked especially for preorders. Waiting until the day before the advertised release date to ship sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.
Pat's logic is akin to a child who argues why should they have to wait until Christmas day to open their presents when they are already under the tree and paid for and then blames the parents for letting that shit be available for them to potentially open early in the first place. It completely misses the point. No one other than the completely insane will think that Smash won't sell like tweezers in cactus land because of this. The number of legit copies will easily outnumber the pirated ones. How this does/doesn't effect sales isn't the issue. *Leaking the whole game two weeks before release was just a shitty thing to do*
If i bought my own presents, and then still couldnt open them until christmas, while watching other people open theirs whenever they liked and knowing the presents were full, i would be mad.
@@MrLego3160 But you wouldn't blame you fucking self for buying the presents early now would you? Just because someone else decided to ignore the tradition for their own benefit doesn't mean you have to right? And it still doesn't change the fact that far more people did wait until Christmas to open their presents than those who didn't. It's hardly a big deal in the long run, but it is a very notable "Did you really need to do that?" Because doing so misses the point.
I admire this podcast for being able to weather the storm and bring to the table controversial viewpoints, no matter how nonsensical they may be. I'd thank Pat directly but I don't want to reward bad behavior.
Honestly i think it was the last 10 minutes of Star Trek but this was definitely one of the seeds. Even before this Matt began appearing in less and less podcasts.
So are people are mad because the game got leaked and it's immoral or is because the game that got leaked is Smash? I don't condone the leaking, this is just the biggest backlash to a game getting leaked I've seen in some time.
I dont care about it leaking but my interest in the topic is the same as yours. Its just revealing who's a crazy brand loyalist or whose a smash player that is mad cuz they cant get good at ridley early before the next tournament.
I really have no idea where Pat is coming from here. People who pay for preloaded games do so with the understanding that they won't be able to play them until the release date set forth by the game's publisher. Nintendo isn't culpable for a retailer's wrongdoing, nor should they be expected to change their release plans due to piracy.
Only ever listening to the audio version of the podcast, you miss these disinterested motions from Matt whenever Pat is talking. In contrast Woolie looks like he's looking right at/intently paying attention whenever someone speaks. What a pro. (Are they all in the same room? Pat and Woolie have similar brick backgrounds, but not Matt. If Matt is remote it would better explain some of the disconnect) Oh the things you only ever notice after the fact :/ Never knew they weren't friendly.
Oh yeah they were in the same room. It was their studio. In fact the next room was basically where they would record all their videos sinve they got the place.
There are two sides of the argument... 1: Pat is wrong, I can't even tell what the hell he's talking about and it's making me angry! 2: Pat is wrong, I can't even tell what the hell he's talking about and it's funny
Also if games went up for sale digitally when they went gold. People who buy physical will forever get the short end. Some people can't go digital because of poor internet and stuff like that. Retailers would not be incentivized to even carry games or game consoles because they'd always get the stragglers when it came to game releases. Since more people will just get it digitally instead of waiting the months that it takes to get the game physically. It'd be a shit show from top to bottom.
I mean that's on you, you don't have to feel like you're being punished. Why should you care of the leakers have the game, you where getting it December 7th regardless of what they do. It's not like Nintendo suddenly decided to delay the game because of leaks
Raven Yeah. Your status as a paying customer is being invalidated because a bunch of ungrateful asshats think that they’re above waiting for the game to come out like everybody else.
Darkheart291 But it means that they, and people who have already had to buy the game, need to wait for the game to release legitimately while somewhere else some asshole decides that the rules don’t apply to him, and proceeds to make you as a paying customer invalid.
9:19 - Saying so much while saying so little. Matt looks frustrated to be sharing a room with Pat's rants. I'm no expert but he is doing alot of moving in his seat and rubbing of the head while Pat talks about nothing. It's not anyone's fault. I'm guessing somewhere in this channels 8 year history personalities shifted and became incompatible. I mean I fucking hate that it happened, but this channel ending is better than the shambling angst corpse it would have been if they all faked liking one another.
Habadashery Jones let's not also forget that they started off as not being friends. Actual disliking each other for a short while. It's sad and beautiful that this wonderful thing is ending the same way.
@@atticusrex9468 That early Machinima stuff was gold for their ability to push each other's buttons and rant about trivial videogame bullshit. While they don't like each other now, the chemistry has faded. It's just tension and angst between them. Similar to how they started and yet very different. What would be poetic would be the two getting together and just full on hating each other through a RE2 Remake LP. It would never happen but it would close the loop on this channel perfectly.
So pats argument is that you should be as mad at Nintendo for not releasing Smash when it has been leaked and illegally distributed when you are mad at the leakers, but you should take no action and Nintendo should not release it early. You should just be mad at Nintendo for making a reasonable business decision and because they let you preload the game (which I think is legally considered “in delivery”). Also Pat, not every one who pirates a game bought it. The percentage of people who pirate a game and also buy a physical copy/digital copy is not known, it would be very hard to know because people lie. The person on the Internet yelling about how DRM sucks because he just wants to try the game, probably does not represent the majority of people who pirate games. I’ve known people who pirated everything, some of them didn’t have money, others were just cunts. Also illegally distributing a game online for free is not offering a service, as the people who made the game and actually distributed it do not get any money. Piracy is not a service problem, service is a means to fight piracy.
"Also illegally distributing a game online for free is not offering a service, as the people who made the game and actually distributed it do not get any money." It could be. It being a service isn't dependent on the original creator getting money. What are you trying to argue there?
Adam There point isn’t that the leakers aren’t “making a better offer” like they’re some sort of competing business. What they are doing is stealing something, and making it possible for other people to steal that same something because they thought that they were above NOT stealing it.
Adam, I did word that weirdly. I would say that it should not be seen as a viable alternative if one can afford it. Now I agree with pat that since you bought it, it’s fine to download it (as long as you don’t distribute it). I was more so awkwardly commenting on Gabe Newell‘s “piracy as a service” problem quote being take out of context as a means to justify piracy.
Pat revealing he only thinks about what he says as he says it instead...before saying it surprises nobody but explains so much. Also his realization of how fucked he is when it came to retail posted on the sub-reddit is so funny.
After reading Pat's reddit post about his thought process: www.reddit.com/r/TwoBestFriendsPlay/comments/a0ral1/i_think_retail_may_have_damaged_my_brain/ It's interesting to see how years of retail can change one's perception of reality to "everyone is trying to hustle eachother" and with that lens, his argument makes a lot more sense.
As a retailer worker, I also tend to think of customers as evil crime gremlins, but that just makes me more conscious as a customer myself and I would never try to hustle another retail worker. There's an unspoken code.
I once preordered a game on Amazon, and it showed up a day early. Know what I did? I played it and stayed away from social media for the rest of the day. I didn't spoil shit. I choose to be adult and not be a childish toolbag just for the lawls. It was suuuuuper easy too.
Pat the pirated version isn't superior due to the fact you can't do anything online, even if the servers were up if you attempted to play Nintendo can revoke your switch's cert effectively banning it from online services aside from updating your firmware.
I swear Matt is looking longingly at that ticket to taking pat to the old persons home every time he goes on these rants where he just yells at clouds and would feel bad if told to just stop talking
There are already people on Craigslist who are selling the Smash Bros Switch console with the digital version of the game since like the beginning of November. Sadly this was bound to happen eventually I'm just shocked this has not happened sooner.
Glad to see pat being the voice of reason yet again. Matt is usually sensible, but in this he seemed obsessed with the opening line and didn't listen afterwards
Watching Matt and Pat argue like this, I can see why they couldn't keep this channel going.... Still wish they could patch things up tho.... Even if they don't come back to this channel, I'd like to think they would still talk from time to time..
when Matt started talking about the "I'm totally remaking this game i don't have the rights for." I immediately thought about the KOTOR remake mod that those guys were working on. I kept saying to people, stop talking about it, stop mentioning the parent company, stop doing reviews on a MOD, no one listened of course, I mean im only in the comment section, and boom they get the hammer.
If I was making a remake of a game I didn't have the rights for, I wouldn't even tell people I was working on it until it was done. Not only would I not have randos demanding I work on it faster, when the company C&Ds me, I will have already stopped working.
