Gas Boilers No Longer Make Sense, Here Is Why. 

I'm not a plumber/ engineer but I find this channel a MUST watch. I love watching craftspeople working at the top of their game. We are just about to do a 4 metre extension to our house and I'm in the process of trying to find someone of the same class to sort out the heat calculations/ loss needed - wish me luck!

This video should be called "Gas boilers no longer make sense if installing an HP in a brand new, hugely insulated home with plenty of space for a plant room". Gas boilers still make a lot of sense for your average older home. Just my opinion.

That's all lovely, but the plant room alone looks about half the floor area of my entire house! I'd wish there was some integrated unit which reduced a lot of the external pipe work etc. and perhaps could sit outside, or in a garage. Even going back to having a water cylinder is problematic for those with small houses.

I just installed a new gas boiler. I cant afford a air source heat pump as it requires me to first insulate all my external walls from the outside, get new doors and windows and add floor insulation . It’s just not viable for most people here in the UK.

It all depends . We live in a rural area in a 1840's detached house that is not to big but has high ceilings . We have had 3 prices for air source heat pumps they range from £27 k to £32 k . before any insulation up grades . We have no spare internal space for the plant to go and the wall space available in most rooms do not have space for the upgraded radiators. All of the projected running costs are only just marginally below what we spend all ready and will likely be more as the tariffs they have used in the calculations are not available to use. The prices for replacing our 25 year old boiler are from £3.5k to £4.6 k . If you add on the the fact that the ASHP has to be paid up front and the government £5k is not available if your EPC is as lower as ours its just not worth bothering with . ASHP are an answer but the answer to the 1.4 million oil boilers .

I am very impressed by such professional work, the plumbing, knowledge and experience. Well done.

I'm prepaired to bet that this man has an extemely high IQ. I have never seen such proffesionalism in this field. His work looks so clean.

On our deep renovation the first thing I did was call the plumber to cap the gas, a month later the meter got removed. Easy for me then with a house full of dead pipework to rip out. Had our heat pump fitted last month partway through renovation, really appreciate all your insights watching your videos this past year.

That pipework and installation is a work of art. :)

your pipe layout is a work of art, great job as usual

On a large renovation like this you are absolutely right, if it's cost neutral then HP is a no brainer. Gas is only going to get more expensive and there is a strong impetus on government now to bring down the cost of electricity. The bigger issue is the replacement market where a new gas boiler is often a distress purchase (after failure) which householders are therefore looking to do quickly at the minimum cost. Sorting out radiators and insulation then becomes something they don't want to think about even if it makes sense in the long run. IMO the government therefore needs to put a strong focus on making all homes 'heat pump ready' and unfortunately the incessant lobbying for hydrogen by the gas industry has made this very difficult.

Thanks for the upload. Great video. Looking forward to your next one.

Another very impressive install. I’d love to see a follow up video to understand the real world efficiencies after the heating season.

Yet again watching your work with properly designed and installed system the case for going with a heat pump gets stronger, very interesting indeed, I already have PV on the FiT but upgrading this system as well with the heat pump makes good sense

Looks great. I agree about the cost on a big complete renovation like that, no brainer. But for the average home when the boiler is end of life its a more complicated question. Also for someone like myself thats a geeky DIYer (i'm doing a full house renovation, so far prob 95% on my own) that wants to do most of it themselves the grant and the vat thing is not much help :-/. Interested in the cooling idea the customer is going for, be interested to see what that looks like if the customer will let you film it. Anyway, great video. Thanks.

We have a Dimplex air to water heat pump for underfloor heating and then we ran a line up to our top floor attic for a water to air fan coil. It provides perfect air conditioning in the summer and is honestly one of the best reasons to use air to water heat pumps. They do perfect radiant heating and very good cooling, there are also smaller convector radiators from Jaga that are installed like radiators and provide decent room by room cooling. A technician like yourself should look into this as more people request aircon in your market.

I’ve watched a lot of your videos and you do a brilliant job, however there are not enough installers yet and certainly not many who fully understand the installation. My two bed property was going to cost 25k for HP, rads, solar and battery, at my age it was a no brainer to install a new combi and some rads for 2K. Now only if I was 25 years younger 👍

Great video, thanks as always 👍 Fully agree with what you say regarding the installation of gas boilers especially on a project like this one.

Great to watch your videos, very interesting with the details you share. Please keep it up 👍

always a pleasure to see the level of craftsmanship, nice one again.

Now lets look at a normal 3 bed semi with an old boiler. These high end projects don’t reflect the majority UK housing stock.

Total install costs after grants may be still very high compared with a gas system. Maintenance and servicing costs also need to be compared as does the life expectancy of the main piece of kit. If a house is well ventilated and has heat recovery systems the actual heat input should be very little. In fact I remember an experimental house being constructed 45 years ago to a low budget. It had thick insulation, treble glazing and heat recovery. The only heat producing appliance was a gas fire in the living room which only needed to be switched on for a couple of hours a day!

Totally agree, why install gas when as you rightly say the difference is so small and the feel good of doing something towards cutting emissions. As for running cost I suspect with those cops it’s cheaper to run and way more comfortable.. As a retired plumber / Heating installer may I say your workmanship is first class.

That will be £30k please, how do you retro fit to a normal house with no space for a plant room.

Another quality install (and video) as usual Szymon. Much as I'm loathed to admit it, I agree, gas is mad, ASHPs are the future - for many, if not most properties. Prices will reduce over time, & due to cutting-edge installers like yourself, effeciencies are getting better and better ready for when old-timers like me eventually break into the renrewables arena. Looks like I'll have to change my name, planned ahead & already own LondonASHP domain.

Very nice install. Like yourself, I really hate the “what is the payback” question.

another great VIDEO Keeping external pipework as short as possible is a great design; as you can see from your video, insulate with quality insulation that is VU protected and weather protected and seal all the joints/seal to the heat pump so as not to let any heat/energy out and not let water/moisture in that if it did get in would increase the thermal conductivity so reducing the insulation, heat pump, system efficiency. Sealing through the wall, as you show, is also very important to stop moisture from bridging the cavity and stop all other critters getting in 👍

Amazing to see a real knowledgeable trades person. In Algave in Portugal they don't seem to exist. Let me know if you want a working holiday. 😂

I live in a semi-detached 3 bed house that is on an estate that was built in the early 1930s. So, any quote that includes a complete CH replacement, redecoration, storage of furniture ect, and accommodation for the duration of the project, and can be achieved for £5000, we're in.

That's going to be such a high performing system! Top work as always 👏. What's the KW rating of the unit you fitted? It looks like a 5kW unit? You should do a follow up video to document the performance and how well cooling works. I think the option for cooling could be a great selling point for a ASHP. What made you go for a Vaillant cylinder? It looks like the Telford HP cylinders have a larger coil and slightly lower cost.

I love your videos and learn so much from them, thank you so much for all your work on them. A couple of things: have you considered the ‘Vaillant Mono HP connect kit straight pipe’ kit, consisting of a pair of stainless steel corrugated pipes, which can go straight through the wall and which I used successfully on a recent job. I’d like to have one longer and one shorter one to accommodate the antifreeze valve, but that a refinement. Also.. for the isolator I have started taking the tail leading to the heat pump back through the wall and then down internally if possibly and then out at a point close to the pipes which keeps it neater and all cables invisible. Looking forward to learning why the flow rate was so low on your rescue job!

Plumber United ! Amsterdam, calling... Fantastic Job, well done

Any recommendations if you don’t have space for a “plant room”. Genuinely interested in one of these for our two-bed maisonette, but a combi boiler takes up no space at all, whereas it seems these need a lot more space (both inside and outside) for an equivalent system?

Im not a plumber but I haveworked on building sites, im prettysure that floor joists should not be notched to accomodate that pipework, will it not seriosly weaken the floor?

Really instructive: Thank you :-)

Another great video, thanks :)

You can also add solar and batteries to your house when you have a heat pump and run it on that energy instead of grid energy, can't do that with a gas boiler :)

Gas boilers are awesome, 50 years of usage is not wrong…….however I do like this installation, but it is a rich persons game.

Lovely job and you make a lot of good points in this video. But while it's a straightfoward job to install the system in a house that is practically stripped to the bricks for a renovation, it would be a right head-scratcher if someone didn't want to do that. Thinking about my own place (mid-size semi) frankly I would pretty much expect to move out for a month and put all the furniture in storage for the period, which would add a fair bit to costs. Still, I might one day just have to bite the bullet and do that, I guess.

Here here on your return on investment rant! Great install and love the details. Thanks.

Just top ! I agree with everything, i’m 23 years install business and i constantly crash in people who calculate cash back of heat pump driving a 90.000,00€ car 😂😂😂😂

Yes that chilled water will be %100 air conditioning. You will simply need an Air handling unit to transfer the rooms heat back to the water for it to return to your outdoor unit where it will run in cooling mode (reverse cycle) to reject the heat to outside via refrigeration cycle. Then the chilled water heads back upstairs. HEATPUMP = reverse cycle air conditioning normally. Just another true advantage of replacing the old boiler

Why do you use copper instead of maybe the Geberit Flowfit system?

Interesting project. Love the torque wrench. Would rather have a professional do my plumbing, but want one anyway!

Great work and professional, but an install like that I’m guessing is about 10 - 20k. Well out of the price range for most people regardless of grant.

Hi Urban Plumbers, as always a really neat install and informative video. Please let us know what the installation cost is for this install, and also going forward the costing for your other installs please. I understand and agree we need to look forward regarding green energy measures to our homes ( which I have done with my existing 1950's property which is now EPC A) . Actually with no one in the property during the install ( luckily so when the tank is faulty and caused significant delay, which if you where installing in an existing property would be unacceptable for someone living in a property at the time) and with retrofit wall, floor and roof insulation it is possible to produce an energy efficient building. The problem comes with retrofit to existing housing stock in the UK, which is generally old and poorly insulated. The upgrade costs for a typical Victorian or Edwardian property are very high before the installation of an air source heat pump system. The typical install costs for an air heat source system including larger radiators etc is as per government figure £12K to £18K which is substantially more than a high efficiency boiler and Radiators. This figure plus any mitigation to the existing EPC value of a property make it very unlikely that those who could really do with benefiting the most would never be able to afford to install an air source heat pump.

I enjoy your videos. Would really like to install ASHP plus solar panels in the renovation property I am buying. Did your client dig out the concrete floor in the existing part of the house for the UFH?

Very impressive workmanship and women saw a young woman helping , sorry I digress, wow can’t think of anyone in my lifetime that I’ve been so impressed with , keep in mind that I was born that long ago rainbows was only in black and white, if you ever find yourself in Devon please pop in and give me a price no change that just come and do the job , very small house so would be your quickest install on record,

I also agree that ROI is a useless way of looking at it. What is the ROI in having a nice garden double glazing, a new roof, these are simply investments made into your property for comfort, security and aesthetics.

Great video but yet again, these heat pumps are only suitable in a new build situation where all of the insulation and pupework are built in to there latest standards Totally irrelevant to most of the existing housing stock in the UK unless major uplift is also included.

Thanks for making these videos and debunking all the myths that the media seems to be peddling.

Another excellent Video. Good to meet you in Fleet SF today!

With Solar Pv panels yes its a no brainer, without them.... electricity is 3x the cost of gas. I have anecdotal stories of high running costs I'm sure you'd disagree with but my point is the argument is a lot closer call. We need cheaper more efficient panels, more installers and cheaper electricty. The future has started but its not quite there yet. Same with electric cars and vans

There is ONE huge issue that is overlooked when talking about all this ASHP stuff. That is, electricity supply. We were threatened with rolling blackouts last winter which would mean a cold house if you did everything with electricity. Having a gas boiler gives you a backup option (called diversification redundancy in tech speak). So for that reason alone I wont ditch my gas boiler or cooker any time soon. Niec to have options.

Your pipework is a work of art. How easy will it be to maintain the system and will it need an annual service. Will fault finding be more difficult than in a gas combi boiler system?

I love your vids mate, im totally with you on this as well

Let me see, 2-3k for a gas boiler replacement, or 20k for a heat pump, for the vast majority it’s still a no brainier.

Yes here we have a typical normal home as usual funking unbelievable.

Always great to see one of your videos, especially a heat pump one! Given sufficient space to create a proper installation, there really is no reason at all to install a brand new gas boiler in new or heavily refurbished properties, it really is a shame to see it continue to be done. Even if the running costs are comparable right now, they will without a doubt decrease in the future. With so much misinformation currently circulating, do you find you have to suggest a heat pump yourself to customers and correct some of their misunderstandings or do potential clients come to you specifically requesting them?

Lovely install mate

Total Bollox I've been installing gas boilers for 40 years and they have never been so reliable and Efficient and gas at the moment is half the price of electricity,a modern gas boiler will heat your home and hot water far more efficiently than a heat pump and having worked on heat pumps on repairs both expensive to repair and loads of complaints from customers on efficiency,heat output and very expensive to run.

wait for electricity prices to jump 400% ... soon .... the idiocy of government ideas is never ending .. diesel cars ... etc DO the opposite of what government advises every time is my advice ... 👍

Yeah flexible connections, Yeah there is good reason why they use flexible connections. Perhaps compensate for termal expantions but predominantly dumpen the vibrations, then you dont have a noise conduction from heat pump. Also the distance of flow pipes 20cm to 50 cm would not have any thermal lost considering the velocity ( flow volume ) and pipe diameter. Excelent videos keep them comming its really good and educational.

Great video, just wondering what size is the circulator in the heat pump as in the standard size they supply, 6 meter head pump or larger. I see in past videos your calculations allow you to run the system on one circulating pump in the heat pump and remove the extra pumps on the system. This is very impressive and just highlights the importance of overall design and low flow temperature yet still reaching the correct flow rates through out the system. Well your videos and information have convinced me the Heat pumps in the right build are the way to go. Great work, Thanks for posting, I look forward to your future content

Id love to know more details about the cooling setup. Is the heat exchanger used for cooling running at the same temperature as the undefloor heating? I was looking at the Zehnder comfopost water to air heat exchanger attached to an MVHR , which can do 2.26kw of sensible cooling from 5.6kw cooling power from the heat pump. The rest is basically dehumidifying the air, ao is not totally wasted. That's based on feeding 7 degree water with 600m^3/hr of 27degree airflow. Can underfloor pipes be cooled that low? And if this system runs from 18 degree water, it must have a very high air flow. Im thinking that would take the edge off the heat in my 160sqm terrace, but I'd probably still need to supplement it with a couple of fan coils in the warmest rooms.

Great install as always. Be interesting to see the efficiency of the unit after winter. It should be a great number. You should get a Showersave Waste Water Heat recovery unit installed too. That would increase the hot water efficiency massively.

I've not understood the heat pump method at all. I frankly still don't. But, that whole system looks expensive, I guess care of GOV 5k grant, I'm paying for a piece of it, and I look at the luxury of ploughing under floor heating and the space taken up with all the gear. Saving the planet just leads to insanity. That aside, I want to say great video. I did learn more about it than I have from other sources, and the info and detail was really good.

Nice job 👏

Top notch mate 👏😎

At 5:33 you used plastic pipe holders. Are they a special brand? I only know the steel ones with a screw at the back.

I have a similar set up on underfloor heating but with out heat pump, i have hot water boiler, my undefloor heating doesnt warm properly, i have noticed the expansion is only at 1 bar, is that enough ?

I see you've installed quite a lot of these Valiant systems over the last year or so. It will be interesting to see how reliable they are and with that in mind, please make videos covering any significant faults you get over the coming years... If there are any.

I'd be interested in the cooling system too, although this summer we've had in the UK hasn't been that hot to give it a proper test.

I see on many projects UFH on ground floor and radiators upstairs. Is there any disadvantage of doing UFH upstairs as well?

im doing a renovation for myself and i wanted a heatpump for heating and a gasboiler for water. But i dont have the budget so now i will install a combi boiler and if i have the budget i will install a heatpump. I prefer a gasboiler for hot water bcs the high deltaT and no heat loss if u dont work with a cilinder. Als if the heatpump if broken, i have my gasboiler in reserve.

That's taking complexity to the next level.

The upstairs AC loop to the ducted system will also provide dehumidification. What outdoor design temperatures do you use for the heat loss and heat gain load calculations?

Great install happy with just minimum effeciency as have solar PV.

Great content as always S, what would you recommend installing in a new build 1 bed flat or Studio, with little storage space out of interest?

Just a question, are the manifolds going to condense when using the active cooling? I normally use the plastic manifolds because i was scared of having problems with that. But maybe you have had no problems with this?

I usually don't seeing pipes or cables. I prefer to hide them away. But this pipe work needs to be on display. Very nicely done, very professional, great job. I do have one question. Ar around 8:15 of the video you have you left hand on the controls, right under that control I see some strange looking 4 way valve system. Can you please explain what that is and what its for? Is it some kind of automatic refill for the system?

Looks amazing! Love your content. What size HP for this project?

I'd wondered about possibly doing cooling with a heatpump by putting in some fancoil units in the rooms - for heating stick with the underfloor and radiators as they are quiet, but when needing cooling use a zone valve to change over to running the water through the more noisy fancoil units. Hadn't considered using a single heat exchanger and ducting cool air to the rooms.

I put Flexi hoses through the wall all the time, it looks neat, well insulated and it's less fittings, win win if you ask me

So i have similar plan to do in my new house now since i still didn't do any consultation with Vaillant i was wondering how the system will work with solar panels, so heat pump, solar panels i was thinking to put massive buffer tank probably 1000L one twin coil and everything feed from that, since we have plenty of sun here where i live but very cold winters - 15c

I love your videos. Is possible to do a video about the appendages that are placed in a system? Perhaps this can be helpful for some people.

Is that a new-look Vaillant? Great work as usual

Thanks for the video, we are about to do a renovation of a similar size and want a heat pump installed but am trying to work out where we would put it. How much space would I need on the side of my house. I would like it to go next to our garage without disturbing the neighbours!

Can the heat pump be installed in a 1st floor flat that has a boiler cupboard large enough for a tank? Can the external unit be suspended by bracket on wall?

Can you please share how you do mass flow rate calculations for an underfloor heating install to calculate pipe size? Thanks for sharing!

Just one point. I recommend that you carry out an air test on your pipework before filling with water, I did this for years and it saved me a lot of time having to drain down and repair leaks. Air test, then water on.

Here's where heat pumps are set to be a major fail. My 16kw is happy in the 35° c bracket, I agree with proper insulation and underfloor it is well possible. Now, when I ask for 50°c hot water, on economic, its drawing over 6kw and gets to 47.5°c. Seeing that electricity is 4 times the price of gas it is hopeless at CoP 2.5. What's going to happen is; we're going to be offered very cheap electricity when there is a glut from wind and solar. I have a 4,000 litre buffer with this in mind, in reality I could do with another 4,000 litres. Heat pumps just grind away 24/7 irrespective of the Grid, no use at all for Grid balancing! Available phase change heat stores need sort of 65°c to operate so they are out the picture. You might as well use an immersion heater to make use of pcm's. When I first had my 16kw ashp I pressed the " instantaneous power function " and it showed something like 9.4 kw and it made me wet my knickers, I contacted the manufacturer and to be fair they advised me to stick to "economic" but 6.4 kw is still a hefty chunk at nearly £2.00 an hour. The next major problem I faced was the warranty, for the sake of efficiency I was running pure water. According to the manufacturer, to avail of the warranty it is necessary to use glycol. The next blow was the £300/ year maintenance charge they wanted to drop on me to get to 7 years cover, that's a quarter of a gas bill. Even then they'll do their utmost to wriggle out. So the plan is the boiler I removed is being serviced and will go back in to service to be used as a sort of hybrid system for when the cold winds strike or the ashp breaks down, which it will no doubt. And before anyone mentions it, I was not able to claim BUS and on reflection I'm glad I didn't.

Is it alot more expensive to use that matting . Have you done the calls and do you fit close coupled tees .at the manifold .

I have been told by some of my former colleagues that under 5% of the UK housing stock are suitable for ASHP . And half of that figure are new build houses

@6:30 would be great to see how you did all this pipe work and thought process

Excellent - as always. Are you going to follow up for SCOP and user experiences?

would be interesting for you to go in to the cooling part of that some more, sounds very interesting

Hello again Szymon, can I ask what make your floor trays are? I have used the Wunda trays for years but they have redesigned them and you can no longer get 100mm centres. Is that possible with these? Smart work as always buddy, keeping up.

I’m looking for a career change and have considered trying to get into heat pump installation. Would you recommend retraining in heat pump installations and as someone with no experience in plumbing, where is the best place to start ? I was thinking of attending evening college courses to learn the basics of plumbing first. Thanks 👍

Just curious about anti freeze valves without glycol. If the anti freeze valves open they won’t empty the heat exchanger completely, there’s still a risk it could burst.