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i actually mean this unironically, there is even a creature at the end (the jojo red laser eyed mindcap) that kills you if you don't pick any key. there is some challenge in even passing the part, however the attacks of the boss are also skill based and you absolutely need to remember how each one feels to win, there is no way you can actually track the key, after playing it for long enough, the instinctual recognition you get from feeling the patterns and realizing how them going together makes the resulting key position go is what lets you win. technically you can ignore all that and just pick red every time but who actually wants to beat the rest of limbo that many times. the relatively large number of keys makes this perfect.
i've always found that jayuff did bossfights very well. they aren't super difficult or intimidating, but they're very fun and well-telegraphed without having to rely on spamming indicators. they also usually fit the level they're in very well--amorous in particular has a very cute bossfight
i think that high life's mini-boss is actually pretty well done, especially for how early on in 2.0 it was. the placement of the saws are entirely dependent on where you go, making it pretty interactive
I'm glad serpent's wrath is getting the recognition it deserves. I agree that it's definitely one of the most fun and well executed bossfights in the game, and it seems like most of the community doesn't know about its existence
The Tempest by Rafer isn't a very difficult boss fight level (9 stars?), but I like it a lot. The boss is very sightreadable as you're given arrows telling you how to dodge the attacks, similar to iSpyWithMyLittleEye, so what you have to appreciate are the visuals where the boss interacts with and destroys the environment as you whiz past it, throwing objects/rubble at you, or when the jump orbs you activate are thrown at the boss like projectiles.
For similar reasons you described when talking about ispy, I find Against the God to be one of the best boss fight levels. Its not only for the gameplay being pretty well telegraphed, but the overall vibe the level has that your fight against the god will be a legendary one.
With the additions of the random, song and end trigger,I think it will be possible to make a truly dynamic bossfight. For example, giving pickups/toggle orbs spread throughout the level, and when you collect enough, it allows the song to go to the next part and the boss will change attacks. It'd have multiple attacks picked at random, with a telegraph for each one.
i think dolphe is another great bossfight creator. i typically dont like bossfights either because the attacks are uninteresting or i have to memorize the bossfight when the rest of the level is sight readable. i think what dolphe does well is that the player interacts with the boss. though is dodges attacks, the player is also capable of attacking the boss. the bossfights also feel climactic as they are relatively harder than the rest of the level while still being fun. it was a joy to learn dolphes boss attacks and the gimmicks they use in their levels.
For another bossfight, I think High life's bossfight is quite nice, at one part there is a UFO part where saws are thrown at you, but those saws are following you on Y and are released one by one, this makes this bossfight interesting because there is high chances that you won't do the same click pattern every time you play the level.
Don't castlemania have a boss with random attacks? Plus one that gives you "status effects" (invisible player, flipped gravity, etc..). I would say that castlemania also nails the bossfights on the aesthetic alone
Once randomness is easier to implement, I think bosses will be much more interesting. I enjoy bossfights a bit not because they are good, but because they just look awesome.
My personal favorite bossfight is Ocellios. Although it doesn’t have randomness like in Serpants Wrath or The Sulphur Sea, it does have one of the most cinematic and fun bossfights I've played.
Have you tried Ocellios? While the attacks are the same each playthrough, like with most bossfights, the final boss (an NF89 based character) feels extremely dynamic and engaged. It's not too hard to learn what to do, but in raw difficulty its still much harder than most of the level. It's like you're actually fighting with NF and not just dodging attacks. Another thing that Dolphe does phenomenally is making sure each part is memorable and unique with a different way to win while still being fairly obvious. I think a large part of the reason why bosses in geometry dash don't feel engaging is because they normally repeatedly shoot lasers or fireballs, detaching you from them over time. Also the way you respond to them is just dodging them. Even if the creator tries to vary the attacks like sending rockets, you just dodge those too. Meanwhile in Ocellios, you're in the way of the projectile or sword; you can't just fly somewhere and let NF shoot 50 shots in a row at the ground below you. It doesn't feel like the boss is ignoring you, almost fighting someone else or something, YOU are it's target.
I think the new 2.2 random trigger might help with the boss fights, like maybe there’s a set of moves the boss does and you have to memorize how to avoid each attack but you have to be ready for each attack because you won’t know which attack he’ll dish out
It's a bit sad that in serpent's wrath, the attacks are not actually really telegraphed, they just have an "artificial" indicator (that yellow line that appears on the player). That's not how bosses work in real games usually and I think it would be way cooler if you could actually just tell from their animation where you are supposed to go
to be fair, its not unheard of for other games to do this too, to have the general impact area light up before it actually happens. additionally, the coin route in serpents wrath does eliminate the indicator for the first boss. it does telegraph its attacks, the indicator just helps with that.
@@WHErwin i have not played the level yet, but if I would, i feel like i would only look at that yellow line and pretty much ignore the boss. Because, at least from just watching the level, it looked like you don't acrually need the boss itself to beat the level. Sure Indicators also exist in real bossfights but seldom to the degree that the Boss itself becomes obsolete. This would kinda fit into the problems you have with other bosses, namely the lack of interactivity. But idk maybe it's different if you actually play it, plus the fact that the coin route deactivates the line makes it a Player choice which is always good
I think overall Bossfight in 2.1 is just a very awkward genre to work upon, especially when GD is a “music platformer” game, most Gd’s work are leaning toward how to sync to the music rather then it’s bossfight development, which lead to most bossfights we seen today follow that “just shape and beats” methods. It is not impossible to make AI learning in gd, but biggest downside in gd is that it is a side scroller game with only 1 inputs. Perhaps in 2.2, people will be explore more into the bossfight territory in platformer mode, which imo it doesn’t feel like geometry dash anymore. As for 2.1 or side scroller side of GD, there are few things I wanted pointed out that may increase the enjoyment in bossfight today. 1. The boss attacks are way too fast/instant: I think most Gd’s bossfight biggest flaw is not only they are a memory based gameplay, they attacks has way too little time window for player to process what’s going on, this reinforce my statement that GD is more going toward the sync-based level, so attacks are mostly are just lazily done by shooing lasers across the screen. I encourage creator to study more into animation principles, give boss that anticipation feeling when launching an attack, let player absorb all the information that boss can gave rather then putting arrows and tell player where to go. 2. Randomized attack are unexplored territory, it is a very cool mechanic and it will be more accessible when 2.2 is out, however, it can get frustrating when combine with fast attack like I mentioned in part 1, I believe that randomized attack works the best as a “supporting” element in bossfight, rather then randomized every single attack pattern. All boss can have it’s own set of sequences of attack, randomizer should just help to makes the attack not as boring. I attempted this in the past in Castlemania boss, overall it’s very buggy but I was kinda proud of its interesting player tracking elements. However with proximity trigger being added in 2.2 I believe it can be a way better solution to make AI bossfight by knowing player’s active position. 3. GD’s bossfight are very unforgivable, you thought dark souls boss is hard because it can 2 shot your ass with a single swing? Almost every bossfight in GD will one shot you because let’s be honest that, making health system and stuffs is just too much works for a boss that only appear on the screen for mere 10 seconds or more. Like manix’s boss described in the video, player barely sees the UIs that creator put works into thinking that it could be a cool ideas. Making boss unforgivable blocks player’s learning and who give a damn about learning the boss when you have to go back to the very beginning of the level every time you died. 2.2’s platformer mode is a good solution but I have argued that it’s simple just not GD, You better off making games at that point. So overall, designing a boss in GD’s side scroller mode has many flaws, but it doesn’t means you couldn’t make them fun and exciting, limitation of GD’s editor has always been pushing its creators to explore more possibilities, creativities are endless among y’all.
Its not the bosses themselves that are the issue here, its the limitations of the 2.1 editor making randomization nearly impossible. Meaning diverse attack patterns, boss AI, heck, even just making each attempt different from the last is a HUGE deal to make. This should be fixed when 2.2 drops due to the Random Trigger, making RNG, and hence diversity, possible.
One bossfight that i’m surprised wasnt brought up was gammon from Mayday by Insendium. It’s really cool since the main mechanic is that you can drop under the platforms during the bossfight to dodge attacks, and for really early 2.0, it’s both a really technically impressive bossfight as well as being pretty fair as well.
Thank you for making this I completely agree Ive always thought while bossfights are visually cool theyre kind of lame and tedious and nothing like other bossfights I have an idea sort of growing in my head of a unique bossfight that could add something fresh to that area but its barely in the works
you could have a boss in the game with an actual health bar, instead of it losing health by itself, you could use the 2-player function where the level would act as a normal level, but during the bossfight clicking the secondary button would actually attack the boss and decrease its health (using the touch trigger or smth idk)
shame you didnt mention Against the God (please put this in your top 50 medium demons vid btw) because even after learning it the bosses still feel extremely satisfying to fight since it NAILS the use of movement imo. The fight still feels very dynamic because the core ship gameplay is fun and the big, swooping movements add to the spectacle of the fight and the intensity of the song.
I love memory levels so I always loved bossfights. I do agree they always felt like just fancy decoration rather than an actual bossfight. Still have fun with them
not only will the random trigger effect bosses but Platformer as well. Yeah I can agree to the fact that bossfights are currently awful in Gd whenever I play a level practice it if I see a boss I quit the level and move on. The best boss I have ever battled has to be the Plasm wraith it is just so good! uses all the Pikmin in the battle and the boss theme is amazing! Cant wait for the results of the creator contest unfortunately I was planning to make a level for the contest but had not motivation and it did look really ugly. Cant till January I will definitely watch some of the streams
Sorry wherwin but I feel as if this entire video is contrarian pointlessness. The level editor is not a game engine (unless ur spu7nix), and we can’t expect a “bossfight” to have a mind of its own. I think bossfights can be a very creative concept in gd levels. The main complaint is that “Oh it doesn’t test your skill because it does the same thing every time” - but this is a flawed argument because this can be said about any bossfight in any game, (as long as the boss has a specific move set). The only drawback is that this is GD, a side scroller, and not every one is Anubis and can code in a randomizing attack sequence for a bossfight. GD only has one button, and it’s just way too unfair to compare gd to Super Mario Galaxy… a 3D game with actual controls. Saying a bossfight is lame because of lack of interaction is strange because it’s literally the only type of interaction a player can get in gd. It’s a spark of life within a level other than just blocks and spikes. With this logic, if the bossfights aren’t entertaining enough then I can’t even imagine how lame the rest of the level is… (u see what I mean?) Also, the memorization complaint that I hear a lot should not be an attack on Bossfights, but rather on memorization in general (which will never go away). But no one would diss memory levels right? Tis a hypocritical conundrum. I guess it’s ok to dislike the learning or playing process of a bossfight, yes some of them suck, but the nature of gd bossfights can be extremely hype and necessary for the level. This video could be shortened down to “Some Bossfights are not made well, and I don’t like playing them”.
I feel like a good middle ground between sight readability and variety will come with the Advanace Follow Trigger, This allows bosses to adapt their attacks to whatever you're doing creating a back and forth dynamic, Currently bosses don't aim their attacks which makes them feel very disconected.
Ngl I thought you would do Castlevania as a good example, but I could see the issue as it being morw of an pick your path with encounters than a boss fight level.
i dont get why nearly every boss level places the boss in front of the player. having the boss chase you from behind is way cooler. it gives off a real sense of speed, and it has great synergy with gd's unique mechanic of constantly moving forward.
Do you fought against beast slayer snake in Serpents wrath? It is just the difficulty what is different but it would be cool to read ur thoughts about it too.
don't worry in 2.2 i will make the most epic and amazing level with an even epicer and amazinger bossfight and it's going to be better than every other bossfight level and everyone will love it and it's going to be epic and amazing and also epic and amazing
I actually wanted to mention these two levels, iirc they both are somewhat interactive with different paths every time. I've only played sulphur sea though which is basically the same as serpants wrath, but just a bit shorter.
bosses are not just memory levels most of the time... they are also art levels witch is something you completley failled to mention when your first example exists and i find that really funny. also where did you get idea that bosses are supposed to be hard?
the video isnt about art levels though, its about boss fight levels. art levels are their own thing. i dont think its strange to just talk about the mechanics of bossfights in gd in a video about bossfights. also, i generally think its good game design to make bosses harder than the game leading up to that point. if theyre too easy it kind of cheapens them i think. of course there are scenarios where easy bosses fit in just fine, too, i even give an example in this video
Damn, such a shame that almost noone tries to create a boss fight level, that contains an actual boss fight, because it can be done in 2.1 editor, probably with use of collision blocks, follow player Y triggers, a bit of randomisation like in limbo. I think it's enough in right hands to create a good feeling boss which adapts to your movements and acts different on each attempt and make it an entertaining level.
