First of all I love this car. But how could Toyota mess the seating postion up this much? They almost went full ham with everthing (manual gearbox, carbon and aluminium parts, aggressive AWD, wide body, etc) and then decided to put in those seats -.- As I said no hate to the car. It probably annoyes me this much because my love for the GR Yaris is over 9000 ^^
I think they just didn't think of TÜV, in most other countries these mods would be no problem at all. The seat is so high because otherwise you could see even less over the stupid infotainment screen lol
It´s a road car, not a race car! Yaris ruined by seating position, supra ruined by bump steer... Come on, thats bullsh...! If you have problems with Toyota cars, don´t buy it!
Lead the way, find a decent TUV approved method to remove the seat mount towers and lower them. You could even sell a solution for all of us who'd like to drop the seat and help to soften the blow if Toyota did decide to drop the seat in a future model.
Robert, with my GR Yaris I am going to build a seat console that lowers the level of mounting point for the seat itself. Idea is to keep the seat in between the free space of the pillars. The pillar fixation points or 450mm of distance, but for a race or PolePosition I need less distance to mount. So I will produce special brackets that will fix the seat rails at this 450mm distance and will have fixation points for the seat itself. The fixation points on these brackets towards the seat will be lower than the pillar hight. Hope I could explain it clear enough. If you want I can send you a STEP-file of the brackets.
This might need a picture to explain what you mean. There are two approaches that I can think of. Solution 1: use the existing (high) mounts and then somehow have a subframe that drops lower and attach the seat rails to that lower subframe. The seat would need to be narrow enough to drop between the mounting points. Solution 2: similar to the first in that the seat needs to be narrow enough, but build some new lower mounts and fix them to the chassis cross member. Another frame may be required to attach to the seat rails depending if the rails can be repositioned closer than the original ones. Yes, this is hard to explain! I'm 178cm tall and have driven a GR. The seat height was my only complaint. It does feel too high, like you are sitting on top of the seat rather than in it. Other than that a great fun car.
You are suppose to hold on to these types of issues until you’re ready to release a VERY thorough “5 Things I Hate About...” video. Come on, Robert. You’re throwing off the RU-vid cosmos.
Thank you for bringing this up. Had a test drive recently and my biggest complaint was the seating position/seating way too high. So if you find a solution to legally cut of those ridiculous pillars please and mount the seats directly on the crossbar do it and help other german Yaris GR drivers with how you have done it and how you got TÜV for it. I was considering buying one but the seating position ruined it for me (coming from an MK1 MX5, so I'm used to the absolute opposite) and even with no cage I would do this if it was allowed. And I think I'm not the only one who wants to do something like this.
You know what’s interesting? I’m quite small and have to hold myself up by the steering wheel in order to see over the bonnet of a McLaren, have more than 6inches between myself and the back of the seat and with the seat position all the way forward I’m tip-towing the brake. I guess it’s all relative ;)
@@tiffanymitchell4338 definitely all is relative! However don’t you agree a MAJOR car company like TOYOTA should be able to cater for both of us? My E92 M3 does! Seating position works for me and my better half (measuring 1.69m) 😀
Another great review from Robert! No influencer bulsh*t , just real talk on the car issues! As i see unfortunately some people giving ‘dislike’ cannot accept that people might have different opinion....
I think you should should lower the seat mounts and then patient the design you come up with, then sell it back to Toyota for the 2021 and 2022 GR Yaris!
Test drove the Yaris GR this morning, I'm 1m85, the seating position is unnacteptable.. :( I hope they change this soon because otherwise the car is very good !
engineers, as great as they are, they ALWAYS fuck up at least one thing, doesnt matter if its car, tools, electronics....there is always at least 1 thing that stands out as a flaw to the end user. Now ide be happy with a GR Yaris as I wouldnt use it as a cages track car, I have my RX7s for that, but as a safe, well handling, nippy frugal fun daily driver, hell yes!
Hi Robert, you're hitting such a critical point for me, as I'm 6'4". In Italy most often you need to drive in track days with a mandatory helmet, no chance for me to drive most cars with it. I believe driving position is a key factor in driving skills, most experienced drivers are just not sitting correctly in the car. In my case, finding the right position is my first choice factor when I choose a new car. So sad the Yaris can't make my next one.
I'm hoping Toyota Gazoo Racing HQ in Japan are aware of this high seating position issue for taller people and have this problem fixed before I take delivery of my GR Yaris in November 2021.
Oooh interesting dilemma.... from a business point of view ditch it....but from an engineering point of view it would make great content to change it.... cause #racecarlife 😂🤣
Toyota didn't expect to sell many GR Yaris worldwide. They will be releasing a basic 1.5 NA in JDM which they expect to make up the majority of sales and those sales will be to people who are mainly shorter than those in the West. Toyota wouldn't go the expense of homologating a GR-specific bodyshell with lower seat mounts.
CUT THE MOUNTS! As someone with a GR Yaris on order, I was also disappointed to see how high the seats are mounted! I would love to see those chunky pillars trimmed down to allow the stock seats +/ aftermarket buckets to be utilised properly!
My vote is to get the seats as low as possible, by the looks of it a fairly large amount of drivers may be brushing their hair with the headliner on the more flighty bits of the track. If this car is anything like my focus rs, the rain on a ps4s and an aggressive front end will let the car rotate on entry first, which you can then use the throttle and torque vectoring to pull through the corner. Obviously braking zones need respect like any other car, but I've found this style of setup to suit AWD well as you can trail brake deep and then power out hard which may actually be a way to prevent a newer driver from bumping a guard rail as the car does the work for you on power, or at least that's my hypothesis. With that in mind I would love to see it fully caged if it makes sense to do so, I think the car will give a truly unique driving experience!
To me those Yaris seats look almost identical to the seats used in the Supra. I wonder if they attempted to use the Supra seats only to find the Yaris was too narrow or the seat mounts were originally too far recessed into the floor pans for the Supra seat mounts. Doesn't make a lot of sense considering how much tooling they had to create for the rest of the car. Surprised they wouldn't have used FR-S or BRZ seats instead if they were attempting to reuse an existing design.
Seems like most would prefer it with a lower seating position. Your best compromise may be to remove the silly seat pillars, install the stock seats 8cm lower, keep the air bags and install the half cage you have now built. Then use stock seat belts and run it as an enhance stock car, not a race car with race harnesses. That way it is safer with or without a helmet, and a better driving position for average customers. The cage looks great.
Better than nothing or a fulltime filmcrew: its more about the story you're telling, good quality of the video is a bonus.... imho. But hey, imperfections in this world make it interesting :) Misha said the car inspires (maybe too much)confidence, a cage might strengthen that feeling and people might go overboard(?). The GR Yaris without a cage might then be more interesting for less experienced drivers..but then.. safety.. Thanks for the content! Love it
That was just a Joke Nasser. The thing is that the lower you sit, the better your center of gravity is, therefore the better balance you have of the car. Not to mention more comfortable.
@@brunom6153 I saw in one of the development videos that Tommi Mäkinen and many other rally drivers sit taller in the seat for better vision of the road surface
As some one that is 2 m tall I already find it very annoying that I don't fit in a lot of cars and especially small fun cars like a gt86 Audi TT. But when the manufacturers obviously does it on purpose and not for the lack of space it's almost offensive
I am tall - If I wanted Yaris, I would choppe the mounts and install racing seat on fixed mounts - to get the lowest possible seating position. Just like the rally teams are doing*
@@r129r16pfl Just sad that you have to modify a brand new car to make it usable, and this is not just a Toyota issue. Same thing goes for most medium sized cars and even crossovers and some suvs. And in those cases I have a hard time believing that it's an issue with the car size, it's just that they don't care.
@@Mr1Netrom Tall guy problems! When I buy a new or used car, I don't mind the oem seating position (90% will be compromised for a tall guy), because I know I will improve it anyway, because I am a sucker for perfect driving position :) It's a comfort and safety thing to feel comfortable at the wheel.
Seems like the kind of stuff you’d expect from a budget car cranked up to sports car/hot hatch. Kind of odd that someone at Toyota really thought that those seat pillars could stay from the budget base model.
i think you can go either way. 1. keep everything stock, road car, original seats but still, try and modify the mounting points, cut them or move them to make the original seat go lower 2. use aftermarket seats with airbags, like recaro sportster cs but still modify the mounting points and put clubsport rollcage 3. go full banana and make a nice fast and safe racecar. I understand your concern about the false confidence the car provides, but still.... you rent much faster cars in which it is "easier" to crash. I'm no expert but i would love to see the full potential of this little thing. cheers
Thought: 1. Recaro sportster CS with airbags. After cutting the seats' 9cm elevator shoes. 2. Half cage. Back brace to seat from half cage. Harnesses. Make the cage like a RUF install - hidden in the car and/or very padded....but hidden if you go up front. Or just only a half cage....done.
You really don't need a roll cage ❌ And to lower the seats by 4 inches get the and fit rails that mont into the cross tracks with lever action to get you perfect ride persition , good luck god bless all 👍☘️🙏
I guess these videos provide inspiration to those that want to modify their cars but I’ve covered a fair few miles in my GRY and I can’t see what the fuss is about. I’m 6ft and can see perfectly well with the drivers seat as it is and it provides good support even when driving “enthusiastically”. Oh, and the other thing that amazes me is the criticism on the rear view mirror that apparently creates a blind spot. Yes, if you like watching birds in the trees I can see that would be the case but if you are concentrating on the road it isn’t an issue at all.
Those 9cm mounts are seriously ridiculous! It be interesting to see what direction you guys end up going with. However, for my money, I would certainly tend towards investing effort in lowering the mounting points. I guess the rally car is a great place to start and perhaps try and replicate their setup somehow. Of course we accept that it has to be done such that the original stiffness is maintained (at a minimum) relative to the original high mounts. In other words, if the experts are confident that they can lower the mounting points in a safe and reliable way then I'd certainly go for it. However, and very importantly, since so much effort will be put into it by this time, one has to install some sweet RECARO bucket seats or something awesome along those lines :) And that should also solve the harness mounting issue... Cheers!
The sad thing to keep in mind is that we have a bolt in cage (removable) and then we have permanently modified seat towers. Just doesn’t go together does it?!
I'm 181 and do not fit with a helmet unless I have a massive amount of seat recline. I'd love to keep the standard seats so modifying the towers is at the top of my list. Cannot believe this oversight!
Would be interesting to see what you can do with the seats. But perhaps making something like the rally guys use so you can return it to stock later might be an idea. Leave the mounts and make your own. Perhaps a frame that connects to the existing mounts but has mounting points lower in the car for the seats?
@@MT-eb2dx Understood. Recorded engine sounds pumped through speakers? Nutso. Why are engines, that are not meant to be loud, amplified to be loud? Leave the engine alone. What's wrong with rally driving while at the same time listening to Beethoven's Ninth?
Most of their sales for this bodyshell will be JDM-only 1.5L basic version. They wouldn't go to the expense of homologating a GR-specific bodyshell just to cater to 2 or 3 German owners who need to abide by TUV regulations when fitting a roll cage.
Robert, please don't do things by halves ;-) Change the seat brackets and please mount 2 Recaro SPG XL so that I can fit in with my 1.91 and long back, have test-driven the little Toyota power dwarf and my head was in the sky when I got one had a reasonable seating position ... so that there was room at all I had to tilt the backrest backwards. I'm looking forward to the result.
They may change the seats on a refresh but there’s no way they will change the BIW. The simple fact is that a normal Yaris is a city car so the seats are high to provide rear leg room, the curtain airbags are tailored to that position so from an engineering perspective you can’t just “lower the seat” and change the H-Point at this stage.
I am 6’ 3” 21 stone and while yes it is slightly higher it really isn’t an issue. I drive the car 90 miles every day and it hasn’t bothered me in the slightest. The most annoying part is lack of rear wiper
I remember the same complaints being made about the focus RS upon release. Ford answered the question as to why they’re so high. Crash safety. If they were to lower the seats, the hips of the occupants are put in danger and would require a total redesign of the safety “cell”. Maybe the case with the Yaris? I sure hope not!
A very valid point and definitely a disappointment. I ran into the same issue myself and if I put on a helmet for track my head will be touching the roof.
Yes, yes, yes, yes. Cut out those seat mounts. But, absolutely, after approval to keep it all street legal. But, Robert, I get the impression there still isn't enough room with a helmet. My gut feeling is you need a rectangular tube at the door and a carbon fibre roof to give you an extra centimeter each way. (Great modelling, by the way!)
Hi there, I think that you can think of changing the seats, as yuo said it's a must since they're not racing, and fix the new seats on the ground of the car rather than using the pillars. Of course you'll have to make sure the new seats are compatible with the modification.
Hi Robert, I would cut and lower the seat mounting points (if it is still TÜV compliant ofc), so you can still make it a Clubsport spec. I think that will work out nicely with the stock seats or take Recaro Sportster CS's.
The delema is intresting in regards to the ability to change out parts like the seats. Modified seat mount is 100% the move fowards, not so hot on the half cage from a street saftey perspective, but those are the rules. If that's the only thing that the car has wrong, then that's not bad.
This is the best technical analysis of GR yaris. All other RU-vidrs just drive laugh and tell to buy it blindly. Even in the showrooms, test driving is impossible right now because of the demand. I waited 4 months for a test drive and yesterday I got the opportunity and had the same feeling. The car becomes lively when riding faster and that is also when the safety aspect comes into play. In a rally car like this the safety is priority 1. The GR yaris is a failure in that just because of the high seating position. otherwise a great, fantastic machine simply ruined by one of the easiest designing factor , a seat!!!!!!!!!.
My mom had a previous model Yaris and I hated driving that thing as my head touched the roof without a helmet, so it's not a new problem. That car was made for someone short, or a normal tall person with short legs and long arms.
"Club Sport" it. In Japan they have the "RS" which is the bare-stock variant, motorsports teams just hack everything out and only leave the dash, which incidentally also doesn't have the bulging center radio console bulging in the middle everyone is complaining about.
You can put Recaro Sports seat with airbags which allow harness passage with a half roll cage (back seats are really useless anyway). I think that may be your best bet. Otherwise, remove the mounts and bolt the seats straight to the cross bar as you said.
Hey there Robert! I just wanted to add some more thoughts about how this car could be set up. since the original idea for that car is something of a Rally Reject (homologation), why not go that route and make it a tarmac rally car. so complete suspension and brake upgrade really quality parts. lower the seats and strip the interior. may need to put some weights on the back axle to balance the front weight bias. put on a nice rally inspired wing to minimize drag without increasing the downforce over the rear axle. Engine: only intake exhaust and ECU tune. the engine will be making a bit more power but retune the ECU to make the engine even more smooth and nice to use. no BIG gains like HKS needed since I am feel a balanced approach to upgrading the car is nicer to use then going crazy. in the end it will be a sleeper looking car but with a lot of usable and safe performance ^^ upgrade the locking Diffs too but I will leave that to the experts for advice when needed. not familiar with those. GR yaris already has good diff setup from factory I believe. ohh yeah forgot about the roll cage but u got that covered already. thanks for reading and reacting to our comments. means the world when the company owner himself is active! ^^
I think toyota mostly designing the seat according to the average height of japanese people which is fine but it seems that the GR Yaris become way more popular in europe than what toyota initialy expected
You know what your problem is? You are not Chris Harris and by that I mean 4 foot 11 inches. You need a “you must be shorter than this height” sign for this car. Most Japanese cars are designed for an average Asian person that is 15cm shorter than an average American. I don’t fit properly in my Maxima which is designed for the North American Marker. I’m 6 inches to tall and 100lb to heavy. Put a short person in there they will fit better or drop the seats.
On the Japanese RC spec with the factory cage they run the cage bar you're referring to ABOVE the roof liner and it punches out in 2 holes along the A pillar. Wish I could share a photo.
Everyone is going to have a different opinion, of course, but I would ask some questions. How much will it cost to modify? How much will you rent it for after you sink all the money into it and will it rent for that? What kind of driver do you expect to rent the car based on what it is, or what you make it, and the price? My first thought after watching the video was that you should stop the work and put it back to stock. Rent it for the experience of driving what it is rather than trying to make it a dangerous racer. However, if your experience tells you that going all out and making it a killer racer will draw people to it and make it a popular rental no matter what you have to charge, then of course you should go for it.
I am on board. Pull out the spot welded towers and get creative with a new seat bracket design. This would even be a means to fab up and 'distribute' seat brackets for the GR Yaris. This project must be executed in a non destructive manor, but overall I think its a necessary step for track safety with a cage. Just means more content for the chan!
It would be interesting to see how the width of the Recaro CS compares to factory and if it's even possible to fit between the mounts. Also what are the tuv guidelines for fitting a different airbag seat into a car they weren't designed or engineered to be in? Whoever solves this problem will be the go to company.
@@RobertMitchell is the base width narrower on the CS vs stock seat? Could the CS sit lower between the rails with a custom mount? Sadly in Australia I don't believe we can engineer in a different airbag seat to pass the ADR here which is our TUV.
Driving one right now for one week. Yeah dat totally sucks with 187cm height. I thought its just a matter of seat but never new it is mounted so high. Another problem is rear view mirror which is huge. I do not use one in my press car. It's just tilted so I can see a little bit more, but my dream is to get rid of it totally.
I'm really2 considering buying this car at this point. Is theres any big drawbacks in this car for occasional track use and daily use? Do I need to absolutely change something in it ? Thanks in advance Robert. Keep on with great and insightful videos.
I am 189cm too and I had problem in my first car with seat position. I just bought a chair and have to send it back since lower support is just too low and it really makes me mad. I cant uderstand why cars keep seats so high that you cant comfortably drive anything if you are over 180cm. I loved Yaris GR but now I see it could be another pain for me. My parents have problems with car because I have brothers and new cars, even though they are bigger, are getting not much more space in the back. They bought Kia Soul few years ago because they cant get a van (it is used as daily drive to work) but sometimes they have to get us to other town etc and even new Volvo SUV do not have enough head space in the back. Even worse, XC60 had more room than XC90, I really didnt get it. Really the cube little thing is one of very few options on the market and it drives me crazy
Maybe you should work at TUV Robert, to get rid of these weird rules and prevent them in the future. For now, lowering the seat mounting points and getting that TUV approved is the fastest way I think. I read in the comments that there are Recaros with side air-bags, maybe also worth considering.
I‘ve been working at Toyota in the End of 90s. Those 4wd Celicas used for Rallye (ST185 & ST205) had exactly the same problem. Since thats >20 years ago and they didnt change it, they wont now. I would cut it out. Its annoying to sit on a car instead of in.
My thoughts are custom seat rails, in a 'U' shape, that are wide enough to cover and sit on top or traces the original shape of the post. The ends of your 'U' would bolt at the original points. As for the cage, I wouldn't do a cage at all. I've owned a short wheel base 2dr Yaris, and they are very nimble. My friend, owned a similar car and all he did was under chassis bracing, sway bar upgrades and strut tower bracing, which made the car even better. You have JRZ suspension, which is better than his Tein suspension. Again, I honestly don't think any type of cage is necessary
Get a second one for rental, and build this one for people who can actually drive and have the experience on the track with the approval of the instructors. Financially not the best idea but I think that this car would be a really fun build as a clubsport.
I would be very suprised if toyota does change the seating position due to crash tests that have already been done. I hope recaro bring to market an inovative seat rail! Interesting to see the options you guys take.
Couldn't agree more about the driving position, I sat in one at the dealership ... It didn't stop me from buying one though, that was the tiny size ... Not good for a small family.
It's not just about lowering the seat. The geometry between seat, pedals and steering wheel changes. To fit in your legs you then need to sit further back. But then you need to lean forward. Wouldn't go that way. Half cage, harness and Recaro CS, thats it.
This one is hard to judge, but if because how the car is built a cage will not make is safer in all situations maybe it doesn't worth doing it and it's better of with the cabin space/head room it has now, even if it's not much. If currently the chassis is soft enough (I don't believe it is, but if) to wobble too much because how much mechanical grip the car has then this is something that can be addressed with only a few braces and bars here and there, and that should not make the car illegal in any way. If your only fear is about the car not being safe enough if it flips in a high speed situation then you need to think how such a situation should look like (170Kmph entry speed in a 120kmph corner and bouncing off the barriers or things like that) and what is the probability of this happening based on how often this happens on the ring, and then determining how often the roof gets crushed to/past the point where it endangers the driver and passengers in modern cars (>2004-ish) that have been in such situations on the ring. With such a tight cabin and full cage, without a helmet you can be in serious trouble even if a motorcycle hits the car on a side with like 15Kmph when the car is stationary. To be honest I'd to a clubsport setup with a half cage AND see what are the legal implications of relocating the seat mounting points, because cage or no cage it would be nice (and safer) for the car to be able to accommodate taller people with helmets on. Having a helmet on is not safer than not having one if the driver keeps on hitting the roof and shatter a vertebra or a disk in between before even completing a lap.
I'm only 5'10 but with short legs and a massive turnip head and I almost cancelled my order when I finally got to drive one. Looking forward to your solution to this problem. I'd like to be able to wear a lid but I won't be fitting a cage or harnesses.
Focus RS has a similar issue, I am 1,85m and can hardly fit in one. When it comes to a rental, I think safety first is the way to go, so lower the seats and full cage
Cool vid Robert 👍👍seems strange to put the mounts so high 😉😉😉when you pointed out the solid crossmember just below 👌that would seem like the most sensible mounting point 😉😉😉😉loving the vids 🙌🙌🙌👍😎
I completely agree. I was very excited before testing this beast. But the experience was very different because of this seating position where it is hard to feel the car. At this point im not so sure i still want the car because of this. I got plenty of room in my Audi S1 and i'm able to seat very low.
Easier solution would be going for a clubsport spec. I agree the seating position is pretty weird for a car of this class. If i was in the position i would go with half cage and hoping there is a suitable seat with airbag which is lower then the stock one.
With no disrespect to anyone that layout in the front would suit my wife 4ft 11in and my sons partner who is about 5ft 0in and many other ladies I know, I think most men would struggle with the seat height and many wouldn't be able to get a lid on and drive it. I would look at lowering the mounts or as you said remove them but it is a shame to have to go so far with what is sold as a "road legal race car".
