GR86 Motor Problems 

Hell yeah brother!!

ironically enough you just described exactly what an accusump would do automatically on oil pressure loss, which at the moment seems to be the best fix outside of fitting a full fledged dry sump system

😂 thank you for still watching!!

Thank you!

Thank you for watching!

@@phelpsgarage4202 alway bro ! Good luck on the build !! Can’t wait to see more 💪💪

Thanks for watching! I’ll be running 5w-40 for further help

@@phelpsgarage4202 I need to get the oil done as well! Know that I feel the pain of the what if for such a beautiful fun car

I agree. I’ve seen a lot of data that is showing what they’re talking about. I just wanted to bring attention to what I’m doing to help prevent some of these issues and I know it’s not going to solve it 100% until we get a better baffle plate, design/pan.

@@phelpsgarage4202 the more attention the better. I'm sure we are in the same frame of mind. Apologies if I didn't articulate it well enough the first time around.

@@matthewwain9958 no worries here! Hopefully the aftermarket can help solve the issue

@@phelpsgarage4202seems like Subaru/ Toyota should offer some track friendly pans baffles especially for a vehicle that is this sporty and track oriented. But aftermarket as needed.

@@ScottoGrotto I agree

The easiest mod is to drain the oil and add 5w-30 with a tad bit over fill for safety. Once you start tracking if you not worried about the warranty do the baffle plate and oil cooler.

@phelpsgarage4202 I wish toyota were more clear about their warranty policy, but I guess that gives them a bigger CYOA if engine damage were to occur. I'll steer away from the baffle and cooler for now, but I'll definitely monitor oil pressure in spirited driving to see if even that is affected. Despite all of the FA24s shortcomings, I'm still excited for the car and I hope to enjoy the chassis for a very long time

Yes I agree. Thank you for sharing!

Again tracking a new car is fine. Serious tracking is asking for it. You will spend $$$$ to prevent blowing engine a new $32k car? Not smart money. Used cheaper cars are more fun. I pick my stripped, tuned, pro-transmission 2018 brz track car (84k) over my gr86 or Cayman s. It’s a raw go kart. Zero issues since it was born.

Kills me to hear it.. sounds like I need to get a C6Z. I love Sebring due to it’s character

What is the car you lost 2 engines? Is that a gen1 GT86 or a gen2 GR86? And what pan baffle did u use?

@@ZeroOmega 2012 FRS Don't remember what brand the baffled oil pan was but the built motor failure was due to a right side rocker arm failure. Entire valve train was aftermarket except for the rocker arms but severe lateral force pulled the oil away from the right side heads

@@RedC63AMG Thanks for sharing. IIRC, rocker arm failure is also one of the known issue on gen1 FA20 engines. I heard post 2015 engines have it addressed but i could be wrong. From my oil pressure data logs. GR86 FA24 engine suffers severe oil pressure drops at long/complex right hand corners and it will become even more severe when combined with elevation changes. FA20 seems to be slightly better in the same scenario but it has pressure drops as well. It may or may not related to your failure. But T17 at Sebring looks like a complex right turn that matches this pattern. IMO, Subaru powertrains sucks.

Sorry to hear you having to switch platforms dealing with this. I wondered whether this was engine layout specific and looked up whether Porsche had issues with this and ran into some Porsche threads on this being an issue. Seems like they’ve sorted it out and hopefully there’s an aftermarket fix for the BRZ. Learning to drive manual on this car and planning to track it, would hate to learn on it only to ruin it during future track use. These videos are helpful and informative though.

The tomei baffle plate is not 100% going to solve the problem but it does help. Having slightly thicker oil helps and having your oil temp stay cooler also helps. Killer Bee has something coming soon that should help also. If it was my car I wouldn’t track it with 0W 20.

@@phelpsgarage4202 I’ll definitely change the oil and have the oil temp stay cooler than! Can’t wait to see what you have next, thank you

@@_Capitancorrea_ we have a couple of things coming soon 😎

Would the Tomei oil pan put it out of warranty?

@@johnrooney507 that’s a question for the dealership. But I feel like they will try to use anything to deny a warranty claim.

Thank you for watching!!

Hell yeah, thanks for sharing!!

I like to hear that!

Unless someone makes a bigger oil pan. The issue is that we can’t extend the oil pickup. And if someone makes a pan, it has to clear all the aftermarket headers which can be a pain. Wider oil cooler could fit but doesn’t help the oil starvation on right hand corner

I’m thinking maybe even a bigger oil cooler

Correct I don’t care how good your oil is if your motor isn’t supplying it to its needs.. That’s why I would recommend the baffle plate

Thanks for watching! I’m in chemical sales and I try to live below my means lol

Everything else is stock?

@@phelpsgarage4202 yep pretty much stock, camber bolts and rt660s, I’m in the northeast so I haven’t seen oil temps on stock cooler more than 240 deg F when ambient track temps are 60-80 deg F… I need to get something that measures oil pressure but my catalyst shows 1.27Gs consistently

I would probably just go with 5w30 and if temps over over 260 maybe a oil cooler but I doubt you’ll get them there

Great company

Thank you!

No not really but we did talk a little about it

@@phelpsgarage4202 Well I really appreciate you posting about the baffle. I lost my 13 FRS to this issue. I think this will be one of my first mods for my next 86

So if you’re not going to track the car you should be fine. It’s the high g forces on right hand corner that cause the issue. You’ll probably never see that on a stock car due to the limited amount of grip. A good quality 5w30 oil is what I would recommend.

Oil temp and viscosity only help if oil is present. I believe the problem to be slosh and the problem is created when the cars lateral performance is improved. I also believe the rtv issue (while unsettling) is not the root cause and at best a minor contributor. Toyoburu extensively tests these cars during design to protect their image and limit liability. Therefore I believe these cars to be extremely reliable is stock form. Fact is you improve the performance of the limiting factor in an engineered system, sometimes a new limiting factor emerges. This one just happens to really hurt. However, this is the nature of motor sports and design.

@@davidpotter8486 yep! The faster we go and harder we push we find new limits

Cheers 🍻 to that!

I’m not 100% sure but I know there is a way we can become people are doing it

Of course! Thanks for watching! Good luck and enjoy

Thank you! No I haven’t heard anything about the oil analysis yet.. I also had a 02 WRX and a 07 STi. The STi was super fun but never tracked it. It’s made 460 hp on race gas 😎😅

@@phelpsgarage4202 oh, cool! I have a friend that did well in auto-X with both an early WRX Wagon and maybe on ‘05 or ‘06 sti, I think he may have been a national champ in the sti. He went on to first gen BRZ, not sure how that worked out, but he loved the car :) I got to be part of the BRZ introduction brochure social media shoot for Subaru in 2012. I was an “Enthusiast”, and got to hustle it up some canyon road closed by the chp a number of times, and give impressions. All good, an amazing car!

Not that I know of. No, I would at least run 5w-30 if not tracking

I would use the 5w30 and keeping it stock for the warranty is probably the best thing if anything happens.

Thanks for the reply. Keep up the excellent content!

No but what we see is about 10 psi from 5w-30 to 5w-40

Yeah if I do it I would let it warm up before I did any hard driving

Race the firm, and Miami speedway. I’m home track is Sebring. Where are you located?

@@phelpsgarage4202 Orlando. Smack dab in the middle.

@@christopherfarish4965 sweet come out to Sebring September 30 and get some seat time

@@phelpsgarage4202 Awesome. Looking forward to it. In the process of locking down a 128i.

@@christopherfarish4965 I had a tuned 135i years ago

Good point I’ll find out. I mainly just track the car so the temps are high so hopefully 0w40 is not too much

Mine is 2016 and I always run 5w40 since it was 10k miles... now sets at 75k miles never had issues with avcs/vvti due to 5w40

@@ej254 good to know!

I would said yes once it’s up to temperature.

I’m about to add more aero.. Let’s see what the aftermarket comes out with.

@@phelpsgarage4202 i have the fa20DIT and see huge oil pressure drops. Goes from 80psi to 20psi in corners/braking and i’m stock aero on 100tw tires. Oil cooler, oil pickup and ported oil pump/galleys as well

I did twice and didn’t see anything the second time around

Build date would be good as reference

Yes, even in the owners manual, it says you can run 5w30

If you got high mileage it's time to swap to thicker oil. Your clearances get eaten up over time leaving space for oil to get by so if you go thicker it'll have a harder time getting through piston rings and whatnot which equals less blow by and less oil consumption

@@PovertyStudiosthought this was old school myth. Newer engines I thought used thinner oils to circulate faster and lubricate better. Hasn’t the viscosity got more to do with ambient temps and perhaps engines with lower(opposed to higher tolerances? Where are the molecular geniuses when u need em 😅

@@daintreetosea what's a myth? The fact that your clearances get worn out and need thicker oil?

It’s bad.. hopefully killer b and solve this issue

It’s better than 0w-20. Let’s see what 5w-40 looks like

Yeah I don’t recommend 0w20

Yes the 2.4 has been designed to rev freely and to get the most out of it GaZo racing put light weight pistons with low tension piston rings. If owned 3 BRZs and my current one was broken in for an extended time and find it uses less oil but still I find that when I drive it hard it seems to push oil past the rings. Not that much. On the interstate the same thing, long drives at elevated speeds gets the oil hotter and it uses oil but not that much. I check my oil daily before driving and always maintain full status. Less chance of oil pickup sucking air with high G forces in tight turns. My other very important safety measure is to set my rev limiter warning to 6800 rpms because the engine power peaks at 7000 rpms and I find that by the time the warning has sounded I’m already past 6800 rpms and at 7000 rpms. That to me is being safe. Oil viscosity is personal preference, I’m good with factory recommendations and changing the oil sooner. For me, I’d love to see someone design a larger capacity oil pan with baffles that could fit ?? OH ! One last remark, I have heard that engine computers have recorded over rev events, like 8000 rpms, THAT will run bears dry and it doesn’t take to many over rev events to wear out a bearing. I’m sure that’s why we hear of track cars with spun bearings !!!

@@Tonga2 with my E85 tune my cars redline is 7k not 7.5. I feel the aftermarket is have a better pan and baffle plate

I think that’s true of most boxer engines and any performance 4 cylinder that gets revved out or driven hard. Both my Miata’s that I had before consumed oil after a while, and my Honda definitely burned oil after a while… It’s wear and tear on the engine. If you’re gonna drive your car harder, you need to pay attention more and be more on top of maintenance is the bottom line. However imo the service interval on the FA24/20 for oil changes is way too long.

@@NapalmPineapple yeah, you definitely have to pay to play. That’s why I’m modifying the car to keep up with demand.

I think they do have some type of baffle plate

Thank you for the kind words! Most people probably don’t want to void their warranty. And even though what I’m doing is working, it’s still not 100% I believe the aftermarket is doing something, but it’s taking time to develop and then test and then put it out into the world.

@@phelpsgarage4202 I don't know, from what I have heard it seems like chances are slim that an oil starved motor failure will even be covered under warranty regardless. If you are going to track the car, I would much rather have the added insurance. And if you really want to try for a warranty claim, it is not all that hard to drop the pan and remove a baffle, is it? This issue has been on the radar for some time now (well over a year I believe), I have seen shops put together and then test and tune an entire turbo upgrade systems in a matter of weeks, you really think it takes this long to develop an oil pan baffle? Is there room to make an improved oil pan, perhaps something that might work even better with a baffle and increase volume?

@@ericmichel3857 I don’t think we knew how serious the problem was a year ago. But I do know there are companies testing products now I just don’t know how long it takes to be released to the public or the cost. It’s not to difficult to remove the pan for the second time around.

Syms Racing has a baffled oil pan and STI Japan offers one as well, along with just a baffle set. Trust, Tomei, and Cusco offer baffle plates as well. At least in the JDM market.

@@tvtime2644 Oh okay that makes a lot more sense, in fact I thought he said he used a homemade baffle plate, but I now realize what he really said was Tomei baffle plate, I see that now thanks. Okay so there are already a bunch of options. Obviously I know almost nothing about this car/engine. So if the older model and the WRX/STI use basically the same engine, why is this issue only mentioned with the new 2.4 liter engine? Or is this an issue with all versions, and I just never heard about it? You hear so much BS I don't know what to believe, some say this is a very reliable track platform (especially in NA form), then others claim it has a reputation... I am starting to suspect the problems might be more user induced. I mean you can't run slicks pulling 1.5 G's and expect a stock setup to handle all of that, is that what these chuckle heads are doing? And then jumping on the internet claiming the car has a design problem? Okay I think I get it now

I keep it just a tad above full

@@phelpsgarage4202 i recommended to add more than 500ml of oil from full Run with oil that is 5-10mm more the full level point As you know, it is considered advantageous to increase the amount of oil above the regulation because the problem of not coming down is greater than the problem of locking the oil in the oil pan

I don’t know much on the syms.. but killer b is working on something that might solve the problem.

@@phelpsgarage4202 That is the same conversation i just had with Ezikiel from CM autohaus. Thanks yeah i guess i wait a bit more. im just worried the damage is already done. I just did my 7th and 8th track days at sonoma this past weekend with 23K miles. High key was worried it was going to die either of those days.

@@GR_FOURRARIS what weight oil?

@@phelpsgarage4202 mostly motul 5w30 efe but this last oil change i went with liqui molly 5w30 instead. i have an oil cooler as well.

I haven’t put a whole lot of effort into looking at that. I’m hoping the aftermarket can solve these problems without having to add that.

About 4 of them that I know of. So not a lot but still makes me wonder.. I feel with the 3 mods I talk about we should be good.. let’s hope 🙏🏻

Thank you! It’s super fun on track

Thoughts on the FA20 and blowing if not tracked but driven hard? What oil brand and weight would you recommend?

@@stevef3521 it doesn’t look like the FA20 motors have the same issues as the FA24 motors with the low oil pressure on right hand turns. I would still recommend a high quality 5W 30.

@@phelpsgarage4202 I’ve been running Idemitsu 0w-20 as the previous owner only used that and swore by it. It’s been very well maintained as previous owner is a mechanic. I’m thinking about trying Motul when I change it next.

@@stevef3521 do you track it?

That would be nice! Do they even make one for this car?

@@phelpsgarage4202 nothing specific yet (I haven't had a good look yet), but the only thing that would need to fit specifically would be the shallow pan with grooves for easy pump pickup. I've currently got my second gen BRZ in workshop here in Perth, Western Australia. It's essentially an R&D project for Sprintex and Tokyo Motorsports. They are installing an S5 210 supercharger. There are fixture modifications that need doing.

@@phelpsgarage4202 GSpeed did a dry sump for the FA20. Maybe touch base with them and see if they have anything yet

@@OzzyJackal72 I would love to boost this car but need to make sure we solve the oil issue

@@phelpsgarage4202 I'll let you know how it goes with the SC. I'm starting out modest with the boost until a few other support mods are in and more info on the engine limits. My car isn't for Track world just Street and car shows.

I don’t know of anyone but I would like to believe it would

Hopefully the aftermarket will have a really good solution for the fix 🙏🏻

@@phelpsgarage4202 One of the vids I stumbled upon a video after this one, indicating that somebody is currently testing a prototype baffle for the oil pan that should assist with the oil psi drop around right hand corners and elevation drops. If I pull the trigger on the purchase, I'll just have to deny myself the joy of right hand cloverleaf entrance ramps until the issue is sorted😢. (Probably wouldn't do any track days either 😭)

@@phelpsgarage4202 ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-4Jk5WTWoqt4.html

@@apexchaser6187 thicker and cooler oil until then..

@@phelpsgarage4202 yeah, multiple people as well as you have offered up that suggestion. Happily take a small decrease in fuel economy, for longevity overall 👍

Done!

@@phelpsgarage4202 Thanks 👍

Im at 6 quarts because of the oil cooler.. I’ll probably push a little bit more.

@@phelpsgarage4202 you probably could. I didn't really see anything that shouldn't be lubricated above the oil pan especially if you have baffles to prevent most of the oil from creeping upwards out of the pan. Once I get my oil cooler, its time to add even more.

@@phelpsgarage4202FA20 is 5.7 quarts with the filter.

I agree, but how do we extend the oil pickup

I have two catch cans and they don’t have any to do with the oiling system. They manly stop the oil from getting into the intakes system so your car doesn’t burn the oil.

@@phelpsgarage4202 Right so for extra protection/reliability then. But isn’t an air-oil-separator more effective and/or easier to own since it doesn’t require any maintenance like a catch can does?

Thanks for sharing

@@phelpsgarage4202 no problem. Once we pull out our FA24 we're going to do a comparison with the FA20

Whatever they use should be replaced with a higher quality oil. I’m always checking my oil at the track and I never have to add anything..

My GR86 has about 9,500 miles now. With these engines, after an oil change, crank over the engine w/o starting (push the gas all the way down and the clutch). Then start the car and let it run for a short time. Turn it off and wait about 10 minutes before checking the oil. You will probably see that the oil is low, so top it up. When my new GR was delivered it was about a half quart low. When the Toyota dealer did the first oil change, I checked it at home after letting it sit for 15 minutes and it was a half quart low. My car has never used any oil between oil changes.

I’m just waiting for the aftermarket to build it

Just curling jelly donuts!

@@phelpsgarage4202 I’m jealous

That’s the million dollar question

I believe a new oil pan is in the works that should solve the problem but yes a dry sump is best!

As a daily driver, nope! Not at all.. it’s something to consider if you’re going to heavily track and modify

​​​@@phelpsgarage4202thank you so much for the response! PLEASE ADDRESS TWO MORE QUESTIONS- I am seriously concerned about highway on/off ramps and have you ever noticed random misfires using an OBD2 scanner?... What are your thoughts on this?

@@RAY_FILETfor the highway, I never worry. Misfires ? I haven’t even heard of that.

Yeah, and now Toyota has teamed up with Bmw for all of their cars I believe.

Let’s see what the aftermarket can do to help us

I agree with you on that. FA24 has a offset pickup and I believe that’s why we’re having this issue on hard right hand corners

@@phelpsgarage4202 FA20 is a weird design as well. Killer bee has a straight angle and larger ID

You can play with it at Sebring

Amen!!

Yeah, but I think the aftermarket can solve this issue without having to buy a dry sump.. or get close enough 🤞🏻

Yeah I feel ya.. hopefully the aftermarket can fix it

Hell no

@@phelpsgarage4202 What can be done? Is there a way to dry sump an 86? If not, maybe a smartly designed, baffled pan??

@@bliglum the aftermarket is working on on a better baffle plate and timing hold cover right now. Time will tell if it works. The way the oil pickup is designed is making it hard.

Yeah I don’t recommend it

I agree

That would make this car so much more fun!!

It doesn’t solve the low oil pressure 100% but it does help.. I think a better oil pickup with a better plate and larger pan could be the ticket! 🙏🏻

Nope!

If I cut the mustache, I lose my powers..

@phelpsgarage4202 haha yeah shes got some street cred too 🫡

I agree.

Yeah I agree.. it’s kinda silly

Lol thanks

We have one.. next would a front timing hole cover

It’s what I used

2170lbs?!? I’m 2850

I feel ya!

Not a bad idea

That would be gangster!!

Yeah it’s annoying

😅

Technically, engine. Motor is electric. In Porsche forums, we coin the phrase “what do you expect, it’s a Porsche”. Is your point it’s only Subarus that have engine issues? All performance cars have engine issues. BMW, Porsche, Audi. Why are Japan model performance cars any different.

@@michaeljohn1160 motor is both gas and electric

I wish it wasn’t so.. it’s a good track car

Yep!

They should start testing on the track too

K24.....but yes.

@@wayward03 too big

@@williamcricket7931 k20 would be a downgrade in performance.... People have put an LS under the hood, so I imagine the 24 would fit with some cutting

Sr20 swap

High center of gravity