Some say that GW brought about End Times because Warhammer sales were low, but few know it was really to avoid having to give Bretonnia an army book that wasn't two editions out of date
Never mind 8th edition nerfing bretonnians hard, with just 3 infantry options, bowmen, men at arms and pilgrims and due to the save from having hand weaoin and shield changed in 8th efectivelly made pilgrims worse than they used to be. And the Elces got bloody extra percentage to their specials due to old rules giving them access to those, but no such privlidge to breton heroes.
@@spiffygonzales5160 Every this was an outrageous caricature of the absolute worst times of the middle ages... They tried to make it more "realistic" than the original Arthurian inspiration and just made it wrong again...
Personally my theory on how the Pilgrims get their weapons and armor is this: Grail Knights tend to kill big beasties, big beasties worth a Grail Knight's attention probably killed other people before that like lesser knights or men at arms. Thus the pilgrims probably loot anything usable from the Beast's lair after the Knight kills it and takes the good stuff.
It's probably half that and half like a major league baseball star who goes through way more equipment than they actually need to as they hand it off to their adoring fans to treasure.
I always imagined that the pilgrims would likely arm themselves with anything the knight (and by extension his equipment) has ever came into contact with. For example, weapons and armour of his defeated enemies that was at one point in time, graciously 'touched' by his sword. Therefore having a band of pilgrims armed and armoured in repainted ork, skaven or whoever's equipment simply because it had been struck by one of the knights saintly weapons. In my mind that would better explain how a large group of pilgrims could be quickly equipped and it would make for a really interesting looking army on the tabletop. Just an idea though.
there are also depictions of them holding broken swords etc too, which when you think about it makes sense. a Grail Knight is a superhuman warrior, and if his gear isn't also enchanted supernaturally I imagine it'd be quite easy for him to break stuff fighting beastmen, giant hydras, trolls etc. so it'd make sense why he carries a lot of gear, and why he'd discard it at times
Not really. Brokken sword need to be remelted into the the bar an then reforge. As well as all equipment ... Field repair is possible for mail but not for the swords and plate armor.
@@WarDogMadness without a smith it is impossible to repair armor. Forge welded swords were never used in a Middle Ages (blade). You have a good video how Narasil (tLotR) is remaded - look Aragon Narasil - Men at Arms video.
If the pilgrims are more armed it makes the knight look richer, more heroic, and more charismatic to attract better peasants. And nobody can blame them for it because it's an act of charity. Win-Win.
So I am not the only one that noticed that dropping knight class weapons or bits of plate mail was crazy? The gear of a living saint from the nobility would be some of the most valuable stuff on the continent. Unless of course he were to stop by somewhere and pick up then drop a bunch of old shields and weapons for the pilgrims as an investment in his shrine down the line.
I would say maybe the knight picked up a random enemy weapon to examine it before throwing it away, or touch something but they crazy Fanatical Pilgram see it as "That belong to the Grail Knight!".
@@Underworlddream Or discarding beat to shit peace of armor or weapon that cant be repaired to quality knight expect from it, so he throws it away to save in travel weight... Though knight would have their personal retinue of serfs and carriage or two to haul his nesceceties like bathtub, king size bed etc
Knight kills some empire mercenaries? Pilgrims loot. Some bandits? loot. Party of dark elves plunders the coast? Knight kills, pilgrims loot:D You propably can kitbash absolute crazy formations with them...
Pilgrims in actual history: Basically just a bunch of religious tourists Pilgrims in Warhammer Fantasy: A small army of yandere stalkers Warhammer Fantasy is such a gem of a setting
@@RomanvonUngernSternbergnrmfvus Wasn't there the "Peoples Crusade" wich was basically a bunch of pilgrimms being violent ant wanting to retake the holy land by themselves
@@RomanvonUngernSternbergnrmfvusIt took a bit more faith to embark on such an endeavor when you had to fuckin walk there. And, ya know, get a buncha really really religious people together, and they start hyping eachother up... It can get outta hand.
I remember seeing Bretonian Knights back in White Dwarf in 1990 or so and thought they were such a cool model and unit. Of course, I also collected Squats, so I was destined for disappointment.
Also around 1997 or 1998 White Dwarf had that issue with a full cardboard cutout jousting tournament and ruleset included. Definitely had some great Bretonnian fluff back in the day.
In case anyone wondered the what pilgrims did on the battlefield there is a great example in the knights of bretonnia book series. In the final battle of the first book the bretonnia surrounded buy Beastmen and they dig in on a hill creating ramps in the hill and firing positions for bowmen. In one of the ramps they put the battle pilgrims in with no knight support because they knew the pilgrims would die to a man holding that ramp. ( in case you were wondering why they built ramps. The knights where charging down these ramps and a ramp is a lot easier on a horse in armor to go up. And the men at arms would split ranks allowing the knights to charge through pull back and get refitted with fresh lances.)
I’m sure I’m not the only one to point this out but it’s very possible that these grail knights despite their Highborne sensibilities to see the necessity in a well armed group of fanatic followers. So occasionally they leave swords and armor and shields in accessible locations in order to better arm there, pseudo, private army, that they also have no technical responsibility for . It’s literally the best of both worlds have a mom of fanatical people who relatively are able to fight . And at the same time you have no responsibility for what they do so you can abandon them at the drop of a hat and leave them to their own devices, and nobody will see anything as reflecting on you or your honor.
Yes! The Monty Python bois! Glad Arch is covering is covering more fantasy, and of the faction left out for so long alongside the Chaos Dwarfs. Hope to see more with his one fantasy lore video a month thing he's got going on.
According to the Knights of the Grail rulebook for Warhammer roleplay second edition, while a peasant can very rarely officially become a knight, he has an unfortunate tendency to die in his first battle afterwards. With a lance wound in his back coincidentally. Thus, the ones that survive, do so by looting a dead knight's corpse and pretending to be a noble. The Lady of the Lake is also explicitly stated to see through any such deception, so a peasant becoming a grail knight, or even a questing knight, is exactly nil.
Everyone laughs at the Bretonnians until they charge, and the autoresolve meter which said they would gain a Pyrrhic Victory against them ends in a Close Defeat…
the fact that Bretonnia was super neglected has always baffled me, like there the fucking knight faction in you medieval fantasy war game, that shit should print money.
They are hard to monetize due to being generic. Can't sell a bunch of overpriced miniatures if every other manufacturer does knights cheaper (and often better)
Knight looks behind him. One peasant. He looks again. Two peasants. Once more he looks. Four of them. Another glance. Eight so far. Another turn of the head later. Sixteen and now they have a tree branch with them and one is lovingly petting it like it's a seat while another is looking you up and down and testing the branch it's strength. That feeling you usually get after drinking challenges starts to rise, that feeling you made some kind of mistake your not sure off and payment is approaching. Wait did one of them just rob their belly while staring at you? I'd give food to random fellow peasants too that probably found a knight piled on top of him, killed him, ate him, mounted his bones and are now asking what you have to offer
A Point about the discarded gear for pilgrims: I think the amount or ruined equipment is increased when so many foes have really strong attacks , acidic attacks, magick attacks etc that tend to break weapons and gear. I would think they would start geared with random farming tools and forest sticks. Then they get loot from fallen foes and allies.
I have to admit, before Arch clarified about the second source of pilgrim supplies and talked about pilgrims recognizing the weakness in other pilgrims I thought he was talking about cannibalism. I suppose if you can't find pork, "long pig" will have to do.
the pilgrims got their weapons through these possible scenarios: killing bandits and looting their stuff, going to a recent or old battlefield where weapons and armor lay in damaged condition, the bretonnian army discarding any of their weapons due to being outdated, rusting or badly conditioned weapons, and possibly donated by some cheap royal family to be viewed as a pious blessed family that demands respect. forgot to mention, they could've just simply gathered broken weapons and poorly rebuilt them.
Glad to see some Bretonia content, never played fantasy, but when AOS came around a friend of mine got me interested in trying it. Bretonia was by far the faction that appealed to me most. It was very much the medieval knights of legend army and it was so cool charging my lord into a bloodthirster and murdering it to my opponents horror.
12:56 I believe the proper name for detritus of saints, in most settings, is "relics". However, English not being my first language I could easily be mistaken. A severed finger is preferable than a broken spoon, I think, but when it comes to relics of saints people really take what they can get. Reminds me an interview I saw once, with a security guard of Vatican. Man said their major concern most the time are not terrorists but the good faithful people who wants a piece of the Catholic Patriarch's cloth, hair, or whatever they can get (for the magical properties in them, I presume. More good memories of the travel). They mean no harm to the head of their religion, that goes without saying, but they may bring scissors and in the confusion and emotional state their good intentions could end in unexpected accident.
As a red redhead, i can asure you, only those you WANT to notice you will fail to do so. All the bullyies in the area kinda seems to get a ping on their radar, instead!
When I hear 'Discarded Equipment' I think of gear from fallen adversaries. Then again, I suppose the fluff book would have specified it was gear from slain enemies, wouldn't it?
It's understated how much equipment is damaged in battle; medieval knights would have literal armories with the baggage train because in battles your stuff will break. Combine that all the dudes a grail knight kills you've got quite the arsenal
It's still just one knight. I just cannot see there being enough equipment for 30,40, maybe 100 peasants. And a sword doesn't break after one battle, neither would a cuirass be thrown away for a single scratch or dent. If there's a baggage train, there's a smith of some kind to be expected. It's really not going to be possible for an entire army to live off of the detritus of one man.
GAAAAAARrRrRrRr-etings and salutations. This is the only reason why I subscribe to you - your pontificating verbosity, while pestiferously long-winded is, at the same time, perfidiously delightful. Thank you Arch! ;)
im imagining grail knights like treasure goblins from diablo 3 now also, imagine these freaks following you, knowing they will parade around your dead body when you die lol
Perhaps the superhuman nature of the grail knight causes him to break arms and armor frequently. Not a huge problem for a living saint and a massive boon to the crazies following him.
Another plausible explanation as to why Grail Knights 'might' frequently discard weapons or possibly even armour, could be the fact that the immortal constitution of the Grail Knights - and the enemies they fight - far outweighs the durability of humble metal equipment, with the exception of magical arms and armour.
The real shame is Bretonia is it’s the perfect balance of grim dark with peasants but heroic fantasy in how a knight being good and honorable and foolishly brave makes it so you can deflect cannons with your face because HONOR.
Oh man, one day I will send you one of my most adored stories, only to sit and watch you butcher it with your iconic sarcasm while I am laughing my own guts out at the entire spectacle... I promise... it will be glorious 😅🙌
Thinking of the armor, or weapons. If they are pompous enough, killing a significantly disgusting enemy. Could potentially cause them to discard the 'tainted' equipment.
Reminds me when i was a child, and we played Warhammer, but the models were so damn expansive , so we gathered together that way we had almost all army books and then we just took paper scraps as models writing upon it what it is etc. it was fun :)
As someone who played Bretonia. Yes The lance Cheese is fun. It is the kind of stuff an army with no updates since 6e going against 8e BS monsters needed. But yeah 1 lord + 2 paladins in the front and a Damsel of Life to get the front the toughness of Greater daemons of Nurgle xD
You forgot the part where the knight needed not be actually dead before the pilgrims started collecting holy relics from the soon to be mobile shrine.. That ogre might have shattered your ribs, given you a concussion, and sent you flying off your horse by several meters, but what killed you can just as well be the mob of religious fanatics that suddenly rush you because you haven't gotten up fast enough.
Discarded armour pieces would be pieces broken beyond repair which need to be replaced. Same with weapons. If a sword’s blade breaks, then you discard the broken blade. Also lances break all the time…and there is usually a sharp metal tip at the end of it. So digging that out of whatever the knight broke it in, well there is a shiny spear point for you.
Ok.... There IS a logical reason why the Grail knight would throw away perfectly good equipment away. "Welp.... If these munchkins arent GOING TO TAKE THE HINT i dont want them here.... I guess i should give them SOMETHING.... But i dont want the responsibility over them.... What to do....."
arch i got to imagine as a noble you wouldn't be using your prized battle sword (or any inherited relics) for training or even a minor engagement on the road hence when a minor duel or battle kicks off i imagine a noble may not use their primary sword if their opponent or the battle itself is unworthy perhaps then inevitable the inferior sword buckles break chips or any matter of issues that a noble may consider the sword unusable for where a peasant may still see pointy metal
Tbh if I were a peasant I'd go down that path too maybe...especially in the world of warhammer...here's hoping that somewheres along the chaos(even chaos) could fix my eardrums.
Left after 5th edition. There equipment simple battlefields full of it . My brettonia i made using there rules extra units like crossbowmen, and something i think they need and fits, fanatical sisters ,battle nuns 😊
If I’m not allowed to arm peasants, fine then, I’m an obedient and honorable knight. Oops! I dropped this pile of high quality weapons and armor in front of all these peasants devoutly following me! Oh well, nothing I can do about it and it’s not like a lucky find is illegal.
In real life, the cost of arms and armour was cheap. It will be second-hand, but it may be in decent condition and cost a week to a few weeks' pay, and you could ask the blacksmith to modify it to your body or repair it and sharpen it. So a typical man at arms as they would br called would be armed with minium a helmet, a shield an arming sword and spear, and a bow. They would wear padded gambasin, which did protect against strikes as the padding absorbs the impact and cut. They would scavenge equipment after battles, so near the end of a campaign, they would be very well armed and armoured. As far as I know, this became more common and cheaper when standardised munitions grade arms and armour was manufactured.
You may say Grail Pilgrims aren't servants, but they are for a Bretonnian commander. No other peasant unit does such a fine job when you give them an enemy unit and say "Here. Hold this." They're pretty good at lasting long enough for a nice lance formation to hit that unit in the flank or rear. Unchivalrous? Perish the thought! Bretonnia is not responsible for opponents refusing to face its glorious knights.
I rather stay home, practicing with my billhook, doing arm, back and leg days with pleasantly rotund ladies that cook me turnip stew that having two Orks argue about if my leg taste better with rosemary or sage, or listening to shaven children playing some weird dice game with my underberries as their father makes a bet that I will die from the effects of Warpstone before blood loss from my new surgery, or having a angry Chaos Dwarf yelling at me that my squirming around is making him mess up the skinning process. Yeah, I am staying home thank you very much🤣😅😂
I think my favorite description of when the grail knight is gravely wounded in battle was someone pointing out that the pilgrims may in fact strip off his armor and start taking his things before he's even unconscious. So I always imagined in cases like that a mob of murderhobos pulling some knight off his horse the MOMENT he takes a grievous wound and him fighting his "followers" off in a blind panic before he meets his end probably from the aggressive looting making his wound worse then anything else Edit: also I just noticed you failed to mention one thing, some of these guys do this because they believe that in their "next life" they might be born a noble if they help the grail knight enough... don't exactly remember where I heard that though
I imagine that they might also take the arms of the Knight's fallen foes, as a way to redeem them, or as their knight fights other knights, like an Empire knight or another non-grail knight who is deemed unworthy, seeing their items as in need of redemption. Or, I can definitely see a Grail Knight arrogantly throwing his stuff around to the Pilgrims to have them be presentable, all as his own troupe. Maybe even deciding who gets what from the items with the excuse that he doesn't want them to fight, but really because he has a sense of fashion that peasants will never understand, because if he ever admits anything about it means that he values them.
