GREAT DEBATE: Christian vs. Mormon on the Bible 

Mike Wenger is a lot more honest than these guys when it comes to scripture. The problem I have found with James White and these other people as they believe God has predestined people to hell. That to me is complete total insanity when taken with the whole of scripture. I can make a case for that in certain cases with the Bible, but the overall point of the Bible is a love relationship with our Savior Jesus Christ as he opens the door for our relationship with the eternal Father! Don’t ever get away from that relationship aspect of your born-again relationship with God! I’m telling you it is rabbit holes that are absolutely maddening when taken to their “logical”conclusions concerning predestination versus free will.Love from Texas!Brent

@@bjones5791 true. I do respect my Calvinist brothers and sisters. Although, I’m not a Calvinist

@@bradleyjoseph6678 They work really hard to make their 5 “TULIP”points.Definitely my eternal family,just super uptight!😂!…we all gather around the Gospel,i simply believe you have a choice in the matter as does everyone else.”Why i am not a 5 point calvinist-Norman Geisler” here on youtube is AMAZING,as well as “Soteriology 101” channel with Leighton Flowers,just to get some perspective.Love from Texas!..Brent

You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide……

Amen bro

Oh we got a atheist

Who put complied the many different books of the Bible and determined which were the words of God and which were not. Do you see how your reasoning is flawed at its basis? The only definitive word of God is given to you personally by the Holy Spirit, and if you had understood lds theology you would have understood this.

⁠@@John-ne4fqthere’s actually a lot of history and rationale behind what became scripture and what did not. Have you ever looked into it? There’s a few documentaries about it on RU-vid :)

Which Bible?

@@John-ne4fq There is no historical proof for the ancient america part

So how do you receive the Holy Spirit without knowing what is right? It’s a paradox. The scripture is pretty easily understandable

I was about to say the same

@@wam-wildlifeandmore1141 You receive the Holy Spirit through sincere faith in Jesus Christ of the Bible and sincere repentance of sin. This means a broken and contrite heart that knows it is a sinner and yearns to God for salvation. All who call on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ will be saved. The holy spirit dwells in the body of the new believer and teaches you all things. Scripture that once made no sense to you, will be understood immediately. The Bible is also breathing, meaning things you read while indwelt will make perfect sense to you for the exact struggle you are having at a particular time. They are not just empty words on a page. Repentance does not come unless God first draws you to him. Faith comes by hearing the gospel. God will nudge unbelievers to repent through many ways. Their hearts may get harder and further away from God, and his voice gets quieter and quieter, and eventually you are completely lost, and blinded and will perish in eternal separation from him (hell) because you have ultimately chosen this. By God's grace you have woken up today to read this, tomorrow is not promised, if you die an unbeliever, you will be in hell forever, separated from him. Repent and believe and you will never die!

@@CommandoJenkins yah 😂 I have received the Holy Spirit It was more of a rhetorical question.

To say all your knowledge of God just comes from reading the Bible disavows the Holy Ghost, the 3rd member of the Godhead. Makes no sense.

TEST OF A PROPHET:THE BIBLE VS JOSEPH SMITH youtu.be/FrqkaKz_S And The Bible vs. the book of mormon ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-2AVksae-Frk.html 2 Corinthians 11:3-4 3)"But I fear, least by any means as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from simplicity that is in Christ. 4)For if that he that cometh preacheth ANOTHER JESUS whom we have not preached, or if ye received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted,ye might will bear with him." Galatians 1:9 If anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed

It showed to me as a Latter Day Saint how absolutely bankrupt the arguments against our church and especially pre suppositional apologetics are

@@eldermcgraw8406 Can you elaborate

@@eldermcgraw8406 as a protestant who is neither mormon nor calvinist I simply cannot get by how twisted the calvinist doctrine of double predestination is. They basically agree with the new age atheists that free will does not exist. Without freewill we are simply robots in a wholly predetermined illusionary matrix. Any logical 7 year old would weary of such a soulless boring game.

@@eldermcgraw8406 yes , these guys represent Calvinism not Christianity ..

@@G1stGBless Sounds like you’re confusing it with equal ultimacy and hard determinism. That’s a common misunderstanding. The Reformed position is compatibilism and positive/negative decree. But, grace to you either way. Lord bless you!

@@thekolobsociety No, I don't have any connections. I'd love to see it, though.

Indeed!

It’s GARBAGE

Boom.Mic drop.

Just like God predestines babies who die to eternal torment in hell? Right.

@@lemjwp1756 god doesn't they go to heaven immediately. And even those who reject Jesus without true knowledge still saved. True unitary Christians True restored church and proven so reveals this NOT satanic antichrist occult moronism and NOT satanic JWS qnd NOT SATANIC sdas with ellen g white. But jesus and his true followers.

Yeah, I agree, and I fairly strongly disagree with both positions.

Roescoe I disagree with both also and I’m Christian. Although I agree with some on both and more on the Christian side.

@@Beintentionallyweird Yeah, I don't think the topic was a very important one. Who Jesus is and how you follow him, is the fundamental Christian question. Are you on the side of the good beautiful and true or are you full of sin, pride and degeneracy? To me "the elect" sounds like the sin of pride.

And the fact about their false prophet Joseph Smith.....negates their whole deal-io.

@@dcents5458 Joseph Smith is a true prophet. What makes you say otherwise?

Watch this video on RU-vid If you like debate and to would like more information "TEST OF PROPHET: BIBLE VS JOSEPH SMITH " God bless

There's only one thing to consider.... Jesus is the only Way to God. You must be born again. You must live a righteous life. Read the Bible!! There's no need for any other book!

​@@robinsonnier6887amen!!!! Nothing to consider from the mormons as they are clearly a false religion and cult using the Word of God as an umbrella to mask their false interpretations always adding to what the Bible has already established.

@@robinsonnier6887 As a Christian who is an ex-Mormon, I have to admit that the LDS debater's argument against Sola Scriptura & scriptural infallibility is airtight and rock solid. Beyond that, the LDS claim to be the restored Church falls apart completely in other areas. Yet, they are absolutely right that Sola Scriptura & biblical infallibility are man-made doctrines which are ironically not even supported by the 66 books of the Protestant Canon.

​@robinsonnier6887 As someone who grew up around plenty of mormons, the closer they are to "exaltation", the more arrogant they become, and the more they will hate you and block you out for trying to find truth of God and spread it. They will shut down when presented with the false prophecies of Joseph Smith. They will try to reword everything and will do the most insane mental gymnastics to defend a conman who did nothing but lead millions astray, guided by Satan.

So when God speaks to you how to you know it is your Creator and not Satan deceiving you?

@@theitguy2731 ask to shake his hand. A spirit will decline, a being with a body will, and Satan will claim he will but your hand will go through him.

@@devonmarr9872 What are you even talking about?

@@theitguy2731 You asked that if God or an angel appeared to you how to communicate with them.

@@devonmarr9872 Right but I just didn't understand how anything you said made sense. The devil will shake your hand. Demons will shake ur hand.

What did you think of the protestant position?

I think you missed the point. Here's a summary. The Saints presented their analogy on 2 books. The main point: Calvinist believe that the Bible is self-authenticating. This is pre-supposition as admitted by the Calvinists. Calvinism was included for the purpose of establishing that ~ Calvinists believe that they are the elect . As the elect Calvinists are also, like the Bible, self-authenticating. They know ~ because ~ they are the elect. So ~ they are their own source of knowledge. As the elect, they are the source of knowledge. As the elect, they have authority. They and only they know what the Bible says. And, all of this is pre-supposition ~ lol. . The Saints argument is a masterful argument And the Saints got the Calvinist to agree, independently, point by point, to every point of the argument that they made. In other words ~ the source of a Calvinists knowledge. the source of a Calvinists authority to say what is or isn't the word of God ~ or in other words ~ which interpretation of the scriptures is true ~ is the fact that they are Calvinists ~ and as such, as Calvinists, they were predestined to know. That's the text-book definition of self-authenticating. . Therefore, IMNSHO, In my opinion, Calvinism & predestination as the source of knowledge and authority makes the subject of Calvinism and more particularly the belief that they are the elect, and therefore all knowing, a proper part of the debate. peace.

Kwaku took Aaron to the wood chipper in their debate

@@harryabelpotter9630 great point.

to: @@TommyGunzzz Thanks ... you too ... lol

When he said “my heart..” Dr. James White scratched his head. Lol!

That’s at 1:35:34

You haven't listened properly and are cherry picking. They mentioned the Spirit's witness as well and recalled the scripture account when Jesus asked his disciples, whom say ye that i am? To which Peter replied, thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. Jesus then said, "flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee but my Father who is in heaven."...Truly, God is the ultimate authority and not Evangelical interpretation of the Bible.

@@trevorwhite4458 I obviously disagree. At the end of the day, the LDS epistemology is, by necessity, subjective. These men specifically said that you cannot have an objective and clear word from God because the message, though pure in itself, is unavoidably distorted through the fallibility of human players in receiving, communicating, and interpreting that word. The idea of an “evangelical interpretation of scripture” being the Christians ultimate authority is, in fact, a straw man. Of course God is the ultimate authority. The question then becomes “has God spoken?” And if he has spoken, how do we know what he has said? Christians believe that the scripture is God’s objective revelation to humanity , and that any other supposed revelation that is contrary to this is no revelation at all. The LDS does not look to an objective revelation, but instead relies upon their own subjective impressions and, ironically, their own interpretation of their sacred texts.

Shane Iturbide Great point! 1. God (YHWH) is the ultimate authority. 2. He has spoken and has reliably revealed himself, and his will first, through Moses and then through later prophets and their writings. This is the presupposition of the New Testament authors. To go against this is to veer from Apostolic witness. 3. God has also spoken reliably in the latter times by His anointed son, who sent his apostles to testify concerning his teachings, atonement, and resurrection, and to “make disciples” in his name. Their witness is effective today through their authoritative writings. 4. God’s inspired word has been reliably transmitted and preserved through the centuries with internal and external evidences which supports itself. 5. God inspires men through his Holy Spirit to a correct and objective understanding of his authoritative written word. 6. Any spiritual revelation that contradicts God’s authoritative written word is to be rejected as a false. 7. The New Testament scripture teaches that the the Messianic/Apostolic revelation is the last universal revelation until the 2nd coming and return of Jesus Christ. They gave us our marching instructions, our duty is to comply with “the faith once delivered to the saints” given by them.

My God teaches me to love all men. Cringy sounds hateful.

If by it you mean their position went soaring into oblivion, then yes.

Please elaborate

@@Oscardunlap If you ever watched the last debate between Kwaku El and Aaron Shafovaloff, I legitimately watched the same exact tactics they used in their debate that Kwaku used towards Aaron. The tactic was meant to completely smear another position you hold so as to show the audience, "See, you shouldn't listen to these guys because they believe this over here!" That was my takeaway from the Mormons.

@@mr400meter your are exactly right sir.. this was not a debate in their part but a smear campaign. Said perfectly sir. No positive presentation of their weak position rather they spent all their time attacking that which we didn't even present. And somehow people think they won? Makes me think people don't really know what a debate is anymore.

@@Oscardunlap Your concluding sentence is spot on. Your opponents did exactly what Daniel told to the audience to look out for in the debate with his opener. I think the RU-vid audience may have fallen asleep during that part or just tuned it out altogether.

I don't think it's accurate to call Calvinism "extreme ideology". You might argue that it is not a valid interpretation of the Word, but it is very difficult to argue that when Jesus Himself said that no one can come to him unless it is granted to him by the Father, and that He would lose none of those who were given Him by the Father.

@@thekolobsociety the complaint is valid Hayden. You guys took up 80 percent of your opening rebutting Calvinism lol.

@@thekolobsociety lol what case? All you did was prove how contrary you’re reasoning is. Especially when they got on testing to see if something is from God Genuine question. If you’re “prophet”, President of the church, came out and said. “I received a revelation from God. He told me Joseph Smith was not a prophet, you must believe in the Triune God to be saved, the Book of Mormon is just Christian fiction “ Did his revelation come from God?

@@thekolobsociety interesting 🤔. Like how Joseph Smith rejected the true nature of God? Like how Joseph Smith rejected who Jesus truly was. Like how Joseph Smith rejected Christian Orthodoxy all together What Smith preach was not lined with Christianity. And that’s fine? But God forbid a LDS “ prophet” is not aligned with Orthodox Mormonism The irony in this, is that the FLDS Church view you guys as the apostate church. Though, if we take your world view, I don’t know who has the “true gospel “ between you two

@@thekolobsociety still watching lol

@@thekolobsociety not even remotely close

No idea I believe they stayed on the Bible alone

"is atheism dead?" By Eric mataxus is a pretty good book on that exact thing

@@Chesterchurch Thanks I’ll check it out

I'm of the debaters and the reason why those sciences were not mentioned is because we hold to the scriptures as the ultimate authority and everything else as supplementary. Meaning the authority of the scriptures is not derived from an outside source. That said, it is consistently evidenced by outside sources. The problem is, with a worldview that contradicts scripture, you wouldn't never interpret the evidence in that way.

It was a different time because revelation was still being given through Christ's apostles and Paul. Once those men died, there is no reason to continue believing that other individuals who were not specifically chosen by Christ would continue to be able to give revelation from God. Now what we have are the accounts of those people.

22 of the 27 books of the NT was establish by the 2 century. Sola Scriptura as far as God breasted revelation as the ultimate authority was in fact always a Christian principle and that is demonstrated quite effectively Michael Krueger's Revisiting Canon.

@@douglasmcnay644 the authority was handed down via the apostles to more apostles (laying hands on Timothy, Matthias, etc). Why would you believe that it stopped? Aren't you getting out of the realm of SS or at least your interpretation?

@@Oscardunlap bro, you are making a basic protestant mistake confusing inspiration of Scripture vs cannon of Scripture. There were several cannons up till the 6th century, you do know that right? Even protestant scholars acknowledge this.

Amen and amen and amen!

There is nothing logical about saying something is true because it says it is true

@@eldermcgraw8406 how do you claim to have knowledge... where does it come from?

@@eldermcgraw8406 Nobody here believes that. Perhaps you could familiarize yourself before making claims like that?

@@ApologiaStudios Friend, I am writing to you so Jesus Christ can bless you with the Truth and the Truth shall set you free! God Almighty made a testament/will in the OT with us that we should inherit His kingdom. So for this testament/will to be activated the testator has to die. Hebrews 9.16. That is why God Almighty had to die on the cross (He didnt cease to exist just like we do not cease to exist when we die) but He died in the flesh so that He could spill HIS holy blood Acts 20.28 so that whoever believes in this gift of LOVE (self sacrifice John 15.13) should receive His Holy Spirit and be sealed for the kingdom (receive the inheritance) You must believe in the LOVE (self sacrifice/death) of God in the flesh because it was the love of God that fulfilled the law (Romans 13) So if you believe in the love (self sacrifice/death) of God in the flesh, the death of the testator, you will be born again and receive His Holy Spirit and will be no longer under the law. Trinity and unitarianism will lead you to hell because both doctrines demand a faith, in which a separate father sends his separate son to the cross. Whoever believes in this, whoever puts their faith in this sacrifice of an other, does not believe in the selfless self sacrifice of God who came as a servant, and will therefore not receive the Spirit of God but the spirit of the selfish (satanic) anti (in stead of) Christ. God is SPIRIT and when He came to earth, He was still in heaven at the same time John 3.13, That is how He Himself was able to go to the cross and spill His holy bloody and therefore activate the testament/will. This is the gospel of peace which is based on the love of God. You must know the Living Word, the written word cannot save you

@@ApologiaStudios lol, The protestants literally said that in the video but whatever

Well said

What’s a cult

Pharisees and Sadducees thought and said that followers of Christ were crazy types like cult members too. So what? It's just men's judgements.

@@thekolobsociety what are you talking about? I don’t agree with what Mormons say. Every book that comes after the Bible could be written by faliable men. This guys destroyed their whole doctrine

@@thekolobsociety like I said you guys whole doctrine is based on faulty logic. How do you know Joseph smith didn’t misinterpre God? Or so, how do you know the Joseph smith couldn’t have misinterpreted the spirit who came to him. Your “logic” destroyed your whole doctrine. Sorry buddy. You need to know God.

@HokageSB The Bible was also written by fallible men imao....

@@hokagesb4173 Just curious, have you ever read the Book of Mormon? My second question would be, does it testify of Jesus Christ?

What makes the Bible less fallible than the books proceeding it

And more recently the correct title would be protestants (because we do not know if those 2 were both or even 1 Calvinist) vs Latter Day Saints!

100%

Took the words right out of my mouth.

100%

The LDS skit and a lot of their opening comments were directed towards Calvinist.

I agree totally.

That wasn’t even the point of the debate 🫣

Yep I agree. Also the Christian side kept saying "We belive the Bible is true because the Bible says so". I'd expect more from James White's protégés.

Who's fault was it to bring in false topics?

​@@zombiexxmaster1285that's what the top comment is complaining about doofus

James White in every debate I have seen or heard always has an agenda. Not so much in this one, but always within debates pertaining to Christian doctrine.

@@goobermcgilicuty3754of course a trinitarian agenda

​@@goobermcgilicuty3754don't most people in debates? What's the point for arguing if you don't have an agenda?

amen 🙌🏾

Amen

I’m so blessed to be a Christian and member of the Church of Jesus Christ.

@@staleydu1I pray that you will come to the lord and away from the misteachings of the LDS

@@Jrce11 thanks bud. Merry Christmas

That's great! Are you a preacher too?

Poor non-LDS. I was raised protestant for almost 19 years and then worked for a large Christian ministry for almost 30 years. Thank GOD that I was lucky enough to be one of the ones who found out about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and get it. Now, I'm out of that dark soup of darkness and confusion.

​@@garrymoss8021sorry to hear that you spent almost 50 years around so called Christians and didn't learn to understand scripture. I hope you find the truth and escape the LDS lie you ran to.

@@ChristisLord2023 If the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is a lie, then it is absolutely most awesome lie ever. Where to start. One of the first things I noticed was you have a system where intelligent people devote their lives to God, with a high percentage living clean lifestyles. Something else that got my attention was that they were the first ones (and the only ones since) who had good answers for the basic kinds of questions I had that nobody else did. Their answers not only made sense, but they fit together-and they have continued like that as I have continued to learn more over the years. When I pray about it, I get answers to my prayers confirming those things. The gospel as taught by the Church, well…it’s not my purpose to put down others beliefs; I don’t need to, so let it suffice to say it brings everything together. I have worked shoulder to shoulder with top leaders from mainstream or credal Christianity, and I see them struggling for the answers that come easily to me. Further, I find that what the Church teaches works; when I follow the teachings of the Savior as taught by the Church, life is better-and I am more gloriously happy than ever. I have challenged people numerous times to show me something as good or better; nobody has been able to even come close.

Utah is the happiest state in the US

Truly truly an underrated comment.

Yes I agree, however, the general population does not have that long of an attention span, the television networks would be freaking out to not be able to go to a commercial every 5 minutes, and the majority of our politicians lack any level of maturity or sobriety to conduct themselves in such a respectful manner, and the amount of logical fallacies both sides of a political debate would utilize would be countless.

I agree too

Lol I think the Mormons were debating election...

Election "debates"? I wish we had such things! 🤪

What does that mean?

​@spnzfolau4611 it mean Jesus is the Word. Abd that He was there during creation and through Him everything was created. God bless you!

The debates that went through on this verse is enormous

The word of God hasn't historically meant the Bible. It certainly didn't in John as the Bible didn't exist yet.

​@AndrewGiles688 That is a very ignorant statement and a ridiculous one at that. Just what do you think Jesus, John the Baptist and the 12 Apostles and the Apostle Paul were quoting from??? They taught from every book in the Old Testament, from the book of Genesis to The book of Malachai. That was what was in existance at the time. The word Bible means book or scroll.

Agreed. The few times I've found myself in churches with a more charismatic or pentecostalist bent and I hear people shout 'amen' or 'that's right' like a reflex, I wonder if those people are actually listening and taking what they hear onboard, or if they're too busy shouting to hear the preacher.

@@PrenticeBoy1688 this wasn't a sermon it was debate. Most people would understand the difference so it makes sense they were being quite. And I think the person you were responding to was referring to the last few presidential debates Where the crowd were cheer at times and it was obnoxious

@@powerslohner6728 I'm not sure how to respond to you. You've 'read between the lines' of my previous comment and you're responding to your misapprehension of my comment, not the actual words of my comment. Did I ever suggest that the event shown in this video was a sermon? The original commenter's point was that it's better when an audience actually listens to a speaker instead of booing or cheering and not actually hearing the information being presented. I replied with an anecdote about people who are too busy shouting 'amen!' to actually listen.

@Mando Mann Really?

Christ taught colonization, He taught government, he never taught religion all Kingdoms expand through the process of colonization...every thing he taught was colonization.... it starts at Mark 1:14 and Matt 4:17 .. colonization is the influence of a King expanding to new territory and is reflected in changes in culture, values and principles

Please elaborate? How were we schooled?

@@Oscardunlap you were schooled because his boy Shamoun said you were schooled. He did like a 3 hour stream talking about how he was heartbroken over you guys getting totally schooled, and how Dr White is a demon.

I mean it is James white. Haha

However, look up the late great Walter Martin.

My debate is this video "TEST OF PROPHET : BIBLE VS JOSEPH SMITH " I think you should watch it too.. God. Bless

It is truly interesting to watch grown men debate their myths with one another.

TEST OF A PROPHET:THE BIBLE VS JOSEPH SMITH youtu.be/FrqkaKz_S And The Bible vs. the book of mormon ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-2AVksae-Frk.html 2 Corinthians 11:3-4 3)"But I fear, least by any means as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from simplicity that is in Christ. 4)For if that he that cometh preacheth ANOTHER JESUS whom we have not preached, or if ye received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted,ye might will bear with him." Galatians 1:9 If anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed

@Kenrick Lockhart true hahaha, this is interesting to watch as an atheist

I agree. When everyone talks over each other nobody learns anything.

Is God detached from his word? Does not his word bear his authority? Only unbelievers separate God from his previous revelations.

@@thekolobsociety yep. Still not sure about why you guys trust personal revelation if you it's fallible... And so is your prophets and your reason... If all your witness as to God's revelation are fallible, why do you trust the conclusion your arrive at when using them?

@@Oscardunlap I agree, all God's revelations tie together. None contradict others. God gave us our fallible reason and told us that His "spirit of revelation" would reveal all things to us. Those revelations come in many forms and the Bible is full of examples of every kind of revelation, right?

Did this debate take place in Utah? Or Arizona?

@@SickestDisciple Apologia AZ.

@@apologiautah right on.

What about the disgusting Joe Smith, are proud of him. Look for his life style out of the Mormon library. Has to be a reason no to let you guys investigate about him if you do it there is no debate necessary.

Put down the crack pipe Tina

Right??? That’s what I was hoping to learn more about in this debate but I guess we will never know unless the spirit witnesses the book in our hearts… and yes, the book is fallible.

That debate wouldn’t last very long. That nonsense contradicts itself several times. Absolute garbage

According to the Christians in this debate the Book of Mormon is the Word of God because it says it is.

Well, whatever god revealed to Joseph Smith was not translated correctly due to his fallible nature.

The true, original gospel is in I Corinthians 15. Those who believe in a different gospel are accursed. Galatians 1:8-9 Please read your Bible.

Neither side has the true gospel.

The debate was a useless waste of time, as neither side supports the true Gospel message.

@@thekolobsociety Not hours, but about two hours per week on average across various platforms or postings. I might do nothing for one or two weeks, then come back (and read your comments - hours?). Then someone will present a topic, and I might have ongoing back and to with them for a few days, but only with them. Perhaps one or two at a time. Does not take much time. When you know the Scriptures sufficiently well to see someone's ongoing error, it is easy to spot and quickly comment! I just added 2 minutues right now, to send you a message. Helps also if you are a speed typist at 98% accuracy as I am. ALthought with age, it is eyesight that usually kills me in getting everything perfect.

@@maximaphily601 give us your true Gospel message then and highlight their errors too

@@danielmbugua2789 Sorry I don't have the time to do as you ask. There is plenty of great literature out there to inform you of the false religion on Mormonism, books upon books. They preach ANOTHER gospel as scritpure clearly reveals to us. And to do so, they attack always the fallibility of Scripture. They are deluded. While the Calvanists do harm to real Christianity through believing in false doctrines of men as a faith foundation. Again, you can do plenty of research and read plenty of literature on the errors of Calvanism. For instance, to suggest God chose who would be save at the foundation of the wolrd is not in scritpure and is man-made. He KNEW who would be saved from the foundation, but did not pre-determine who would go to hell - that is your choice!

@@maximaphily601 thanks for your response altho am aware of false doctrine of Mormonism...Will refresh my knowledge of Calvinism. More grace from a brother in Kenya

They were friendly as it was a fake debate. Neither side believe in the true Christian Bible.

@@maximaphily601 what's the True Christian Bible. ?

@@truthgiverandfinder3246 Sorry but this is a very difficult question to answer on RU-vid, we would have to sit down for at least 30 minutes, more likely several hours, to really address the topic. But needless to say, anything added after Revelation (such as in Mormonism or Islam) is false. There are 66 books in the Scripture (the extra books used by the fake Roman Catholic church are not included in this number). Authorship authority of each book was important in choosing what was included (such as the Apostolic writings of Paul). The Old Testament is settled from the Israel/Hebrew books, 39 in total. The other 27 are New Testament. Another important consideration in choosing a book to include was that each Scripture had to be consistent with both the Old and New Testament teachings. Then another factor was the manuscripts that were widley used and spread through the early Church were considered to be more important, they had widespread usage from early days. Massive persecution quickly determined which books were likely God-breathed than man-made. Some books were worth dying for. Would you die for a fake book? Combining all these factors together, in assessing what is true and not true, to get to the TRUE Christian Bible. However you then need to add to this that Christians were first called so in Antioch (Syria - now Turkey), which was the cradle of Christianity. It was from Antioch that the Greek Textus Receptus originated (talking New Testament here). These manuscripts were used to get the Englsh King James Version amongst other langurages during the Protestent Reformation. That is why the KJV is paramount for truth. Yes, you can analyse orginal Greek and Hebrew (if you can) to get deeper meaning into the KJV. However, the modern translations of English Bibles have corrupted some of the text, and use texts from Alexandria (Egypt) rather than Antioch. Alexandria was the "intellectual" centre of the ancient world, and we could study how the text is corrupted for hours. Modern day "enlighted intellectuals" have taken these texts (found in the 1800s) to re-write their new verions of the Bible, with errors and heresies included. Take for example that Origen (who took over from Clement) to lead the Catechetical School in Alexandra) was antichrist - Origen taught that he did not believe in an inerrant BIble (like most Bible colleges today). He wrote The Logos Doctrine, attacking the deity of Christ. So the corruption starts with people who wrote into texts things to suit their own personal postions, rather than be God-breathed. Then this has been taken over by the modern establishment since the 1800s (King James was from the 1600s). Take for instance Acts Chapter 8 verses 36-38. Compare the KJV using the Textus Receptus to the New International Verion corrupted by the Alexandrian text. The main thing you will notice is that the NIV 100% omits "And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.” The Alexandrian text is inspired by Satan. THis is but a very small sample of the many complications in having such a discussion.

@@truthgiverandfinder3246 the Bible we already have a Bible... But the Book of Mormon also testifies of Christ. The stick of Judah and stick of Joseph. Also its so funny how the BoM has no polygamy.🤫

@@leslietig4 I know you don't have any Bible you have a Colt luciferian fraud crap the b o n which contradicts the Bible and is a fried Fiction it's the ads against the Bible and makes up stuff against the Bible Revelation says not to add on to it but Smith is satanic scam and fraud from the beginning and added onto it contradicted it and went against God Every time and worshipped Satan all his life smith did so you don't know what you're talking about lol.

There’s nothing list 3 things

Not nearly as many times as the Bible’s been rewritten and the inconsistencies in the Bible are many. Because truth is a paradox

There are over 5,000 original texts of the Bible and not a single one is different than the other. The only "changes" that have been made were changed from "but" to "however". None of the context has been changed or compramised ever. There have been over 1,000 changes to the BofM since it beginning in 1830. The topic of Polygamy in the BofM is different than the same topic in the D&C...one says its ok and the other says it not...cant be both. Alma 7:10 claims Jesus was born in Jerusalem and not Bethlahem as told in the Bible. I can go on and on...

@@chadangell7812 This is just completely innacurate. Just compare the dead sea scrolls and you'll find a number of differences that aren't as simple as "but" to "however". Not to mention how many different versions of the bible exist. The Ethiopian bible for example has whole books in it that aren't in the King James. There is a lot of variability in the Bible. It doesn't mean in general it's not true or accurate, just that it's more complicated than what you're trying to simplify it to

@@adflee6989 One God Book of Mormon Alma 11:27-39, 44 2 Nephi 31:21 Mormon 7:7 3 Nephi11:27 Testimony of Three Witnesses Plural Gods Doctrine and Covenants Section 121:32 Section 132:18-20, 37 God is a Spirit Book of Mormon Alma 18:26-28 Alma 22:8-11 God Has a Body Doctrine and Covenants Section 130:22 God Dwells in Heart Book of Mormon Alma 34:36 God Does Not Dwell in Heart Doctrine and Covenants Section 130:3 Creation - One God Book of Mormon 2 Nephi 2:14 Jacob 4:9 Pearl of Great Price Book of Moses Chapter 2 Creation - Plural Gods Pearl of Great Price Book of Abraham Chapter 4 Chapter 5 God Cannot Lie Book of Mormon Ether 3:12 2 Nephi 9:34 God Commands Lying Pearl of Great Price Book of Abraham Chapter 2:22-25 God's Word Unchangeable Book of Mormon Alma 41:8 God's Word Can Change Doctrine and Covenants Section 56:4-5 No Pre-Existence of Man Book of Mormon Jacob 4:9 Alma 18:28, 34-36 Man Pre-Existed Doctrine and Covenants Section 93:23, 29-33 Pearl of Great Price Book of Abraham Chapter 3:18, 21-23 Death Seals Man's Fate Book of Mormon Mosiah 2:36-39 Alma 34:32-35 Chance After Death Doctrine and Covenants Section 76:106-112 Section 88:99 Heathen Saved Without Baptism Book of Mormon Moroni 8:22-23 2 Nephi 9:25-26 Mosiah 15:24-27 Baptism for Dead Doctrine and Covenants Section 128:5, 17-18 Heaven or Hell Book of Mormon 2 Nephi 28:22 1 Nephi 15:35 Mosiah 16:11 Mosiah 27:31 Alma 41:4-8 Alma 42:16 Three Kingdoms in Heaven - Most Saved Doctrine and Covenants Section 76:43, 70-112 Murder Can Be Forgiven Book of Mormon 3 Nephi 30:2 No Forgiveness For Murder Doctrine and Covenants Section 42:18 Polygamy Condemned Book of Mormon Jacob 1:15 Jacob 2:24 Jacob 3:5 Mosiah 11:2 Polygamy Commanded Doctrine and Covenants Section 132:1, 37-39, 61 Against Paid Ministry Book of Mormon 2 Nephi 26:31 Mosiah 27:5 For Paid Ministry Doctrine and Covenants Section 42:71-73 Section 43:12-13 Section 51:13-14 Corrupt Churches Promise Forgiveness For Money Book of Mormon Mormon 8:32 Church Members Who Tithe Will Not Burn Doctrine and Covenants Section 64:23 Adam in America Doctrine and Covenants Section 107:53 Section 116:1 Section 117:8 Adam in Old World Pearl of Great Price Book of Moses 3:8, 10-15

If God is immutable and infallible, could he contradict that which he previously revealed? Of course not and for that reason that argument is irrational. Do you not see the logical issue here?

What I know, is that I would never ever want to be in the position of telling God that He cannot speak, and that if he does, my ears are plugged. What if you've completely misunderstood something? The Book of Mormon asks "Wherefore murmur ye, because that ye shall receive more of my word?". In Amos the Lord says he does nothing except he reveals it to his prophets. To think he's been doing nothing for the last two thousand years is pretty sad. To think his interest and involvement with his creation was limited solely to a small strip of land in the Middle East two thousand years ago defies logic and reason. You believe your calling and election is confirmed through a witness of the Spirit. Yet you deny the same opportunity for spiritual witness to be valid among Làtter-day Saints. We learn truth through the scriptures AND on our knees, as James 1:5 instructs. For those humble enough to ask God, it says "and it SHALL be given him".

You don't see Christianity and its new doctrines of salvation, grace resurrection, etc as progressive in relation to Judaism and the Law of Moses? Jesus repeatedly told the Pharisees and others they had misunderstood or misapplied the scriptures. So obviously something progressive was being revealed. And Deut 4:2 is clearly referring to that specific book or the Torah in general, as the other 61 additional books weren't yet compiled into the Bible.

You can't be serious? The doctrine Christ revealed was dramatically different than Judaism! The salvation, love and grace that Christ, the apostles and Paul taught were doctrinal departures from the OT. The Holy Spirit was revealed in a new way. These progresdive ideas were why it was called the NEW testament.

If God walked into the room and made a declaration, that is called Scripture............... We have all the Scripture given to us already. We don't need more revelation beyond what we have.

Open dialogue does not mean absolute truth meets on neutral ground. The first Mormon rebuttal should have been stopped as soon as he pronounce his continual strawman arguments. The rebuttal session should never be an allotment of time. When someone says something and makes a particular statement about the others opposing view it’s usually never about the authority of the Scripture and central all the things of the New Testament and the Old Testament pointing to the person of Jesus Christ and the Trinity correctly defined that is the crux of the difference between Mormonism and fundamental Christianity as the saints on the Day of Pentecost when the church began after Simon Petros preached the Gospel and God worked the Miracle of filling those who were obedient to Gods instructions to wait upon Him in Jerusalem with the Holy Spirit. .

There cannot be two version of the Father there be two versions of The Son and there cannot be two version of the Holy Spirit. This is the main reason God states also that His scripture was completed by The Apostle John. It was by Gods Chosen of the Old Testament and the New Testament of course God would complete His word before the first century of the church. Thus Jesus dictating the seven letters to the 7 churches of Asia and delivers by the messenger Angel to John is told to write down these things. The book of Revelation can only be understood by the diligence of understanding the whole of Gods Word. It is God chosen who God has breathed into that write exactly what God has inducted not any man is capable of putting together Gods integrated message system that tells the true History mankind and also codes it in two languages that cannot contrive a coding that Proves only Our Eternal God is capable of doing. Mormon theology is not in alignment with Gods 66 book Bible. Jesus told Nicodemus you must be born from above. Nicodemus was not mistaken of who God is ….Elohim triune God three persons one God. Also Mormons believe this universe is eternal and know nothing about Christ 1,000 reign on earth nor the eschatology of these days once again not understand the whole of Gods completed 66 books details every event that is the progression towards the 70 th 7 year period that shifts all focus to the nation of who will welcome a false Messiah. Israel in a Third Temple to show the disobedient News who rejected Him as God showed in the Garden and John the Baptist testified of at the Baptism of Jesus that Jesus would be the Lamb of God slain for the sins of the World.

@@mikebrunet54 amen brother except the 3rd Temple nonsense, I'm guessing you're making the same mistake 99% of Christianity been taught in error about Dan. 9:27. Try "HE" the pro-form to the antecedant "Messiah" instead of "a prince" and the week is Passion week not the 70th week. The 70th week is still there in "consummation". The "midst of the week" was the Thursday ✝and "it is finished" making the sacrifice cease. The "abominations" were the Jews continuing to sacrifice after the ✝️40 years. Ezek. 4:6,7 is the 40 years YHWH bear the abominations of unacceptable animal sacrifices the HE made it "thy Holy City" desolate of "thy people". The "iron pan" symbolic for Rome the pan a wall of Roman shields round about Jerusalem in 70 ad. The temple in 2nd Thess isn't the 3rd Temple it's the the black stone in Mecca. Ezek 28:1 says the King of Tyre did everything the son of predition will do without a Jewish Temple standing.

@@thekolobsociety 1) God’s power to maintain His word, 2) manuscripts, research about where the Bible came from, how it was translated, the manuscripts we have, etc!

@@thekolobsociety- that's your question..

@@thekolobsociety One way of knowing the Scripture is true is that true Christianity is the only so-called religion (term used by man) that is mocked, blasphemed, and shamed into nonexistence through cultures of the world to destory it and remove it, or to move away from it. Whether moving to a real man-made relgion (Islam, Mormonism, New Age, Universalism etc) or one of the current trend religions (Green Movement; Mother Earth; LGBTQ+, Social Justice, BLM etc). But better still, have it corrupted through the many relgions of so-called Christianity is a better strategy for Satan, including all the false or distorted translations of Scripture to suit your own cause and hide your own sin. Man needs a cause, a religion, when they don't accept the one true God. When people swear, whose name do they use? You guessed it, the one True God. Why? Ever thought of that? Do they say, "Joseph Smith", or "Muhummod" to blaspeme when they swear? Or...J..C......... You guessed it.

@@thekolobsociety by faith! How would you believe any of it? You weren't there to witness it. Besides Peter says the Word is surer than his own testimony.

@@thekolobsociety how do you know you're not in a mental institution hallucinating this thing called internet and this scenario? And im.part of your mind trying to free you and the only way you can be free is if you stop commenting and agree with the Danes and.you will be healed of your mental illness brought on by seeing your uncle die in front of you

Very dangerous stuff! It’s sad what I witnessed at this debate. Mormons attack the Bible and the Jesus of the Bible and man’s fallible interpretation making themselves a people who has no foundation but say they have infallible truth through a man named Joseph smith! The irony and word play was disgusting

Greatly deceived and too often, very arrogant, people. Modern day Pharisees. Choke on a gnat and swallow a camel. They are in for a very unpleasant surprise. You cannot help but feel sorry for them.

@John Andy “the Mormon beliefs are silly, but Calvinism is much more crazy and dangerous” pretty much tells us all exactly where you’re coming from lol

@John Andy John Calvin was a heretic on the same scale as Joseph Smith.

Define brainwashing

Calvinists are robots, they don't have free will.

@@thekolobsociety Absolutely not, they simply asked the question but they don't know my answer, the mormon book doesn't say what I said, mines comes from the Holy Bible. I still believe God talks to us but not in the ways that the mormons describe it. Their ways contradict the Holy Bible, I am A Saved Born Again Christian ✝️ who leans more towards the Pentecostals

Especially for LDS members who dont believe in contention

@@jasonsworld333really? Is that Mormon doctrine ?

@@MightyChange22 yes it is

@Gary LaVere no!

@Gary LaVere only 1 God ...Just one. Jesus Christ the Savior!

A moderator can make or break a debate. I'm glad he was very thorough in ground rules.

"[...]sometimes were not moderated well[...]" thou speaketh the truth :)

H-AYMEN

@@maximaphily601 🙄

I skipped his long winded nonsense. Believe it or not, completely skipping his intro and just watching the debaters caused me unequivocally, zero problems.

Hopefully you left for true Christianity, not Calvanism a fake.

@@maximaphily601 truth

Calvanism is a lie not Biblical. Pray the Holy Spirit guide you to the truth.

You left a cult (Mormonism) for a heresy (Calvinism).

Praise the Lord! Don't believe all these haters who oppose their Calvinist Straw-man.

@@thekolobsociety "The words of the Lord are flawless, like silver refined in a furnace of clay, purified seven times." And I could go on with more and more. They poo-pooed that the Bible says it is inerrant and perfect. They're missing the boat. Are you LDS, friend?

@@thekolobsociety Becauses he believes, and it was counted to him for righteousness. If you don't belive, you will never be saved. Hell awaits........

@@thekolobsociety get the Hebrew manuscripts of the Old Testament and the Greek collection of the new using both majority text and the textus receptus and look at them side by side. They match 99.9 %. No meaning is changed in any text and it held up the test of time. Get your manuscript game up! Truthfully you both don’t care about manuscripts only feelings and emotions and idolatry with Joseph Smith and BY! I’m not sure what you want but Satan creates cults to attack and confuse those looking for truth

@@thekolobsociety Mormonism was demonically created by a Freemason who was a charlatan crystal ball reader, Joseph Smith. It's doctrine of demons like Islam with Mohammed. Do you understand the history of what the 'LDS' believe? Are you aware of their cult-like beliefs of becoming your own god? Of the blasphemous ideas that are hidden from early members like how God had a beginning and became a 'god' of this solar system? I could go on and on about the issues with Mormonism, like how the fake history it talks about with America has no archaeological evidence to back it up whatsoever, unlike the Bible.

@@thekolobsociety I don't think anything. Scripture alone.

When your Superior and perfect you always do a better job.

Ride along with being self-righteous.

@@jabbarhudson6569 There's not a single perfect human being but the Godhead only.

@@jabbarhudson6569 Mormons will perish in their sins if they don't repent and accept Jesus Christ as their LORD and saviour

Yes and He did for the Book of Mormon as well.

@@rdancranston there's zero evidence to support the Book of Mormon's stories, places or people. And once you learn how the Book of Abraham was written, there's no way to believe Joseph Smith was any type of true translator.

There is all the evidence for the book of Mormon for people that want to look and see u just have to be willing to look. And how evidence does on need. If there was only one thing they found that proved the BoM true would that be enough? Look how much evidence there is for the Bible and yet how many do not believe in it. Millions. Sometimes its also about faith. Most people I have learned don't really want to know the truth about the BoM because if they find out for themselves that it is true they have to change. They have to let go of pride. And most people just don't want to do that. It was the same in Christs time. Most people especially the saduecess and Pharisees didn't want to admit Jesus Christ was the Savior even with all the evidence laid out before them because then they would've had to follow Him and His new teachings and admit they were wrong.

@@rdancranston impossible. The Bible does not agree with the book of mormon. So God preserved His Word,He did not preserve the book of mormon since it does not agree with Scripture. I pray you put your trust In Jesus alone.

Have you ever read the BoM. It never ceases to amaze me how many people say things about the BoM that have never read it. I know so many people that get frustrated when trying b to tell the truths and wisdom of the Holy Bible only to be told the bible is a fairy tale and blah blah blah by people who have never read it. Most everybody I ever talk to about the BoM when I ask them if they have ever read it tell me ...No I don't have to....my preacher told me such n such. But like I said. Its just like in the time of Christ. When He was trying to explain to the people especially the Sadducees and the Pharisees that there was so much more to the gospel than the OT and of course they rejected Him and His message. I would challenge you to read the BoM. You would see as I and millions of others see that it doesn't conflict with the bible. It is exactly what it says it is. Another testament of Jesus Christ.

Who said God sends babies to hell?

Yet that is actually a rule of exegetical reading of scripture. To allow scripture to interpret scripture in context.

Henryyyyy!

That was our point. To argue ultimate authority is to present the that which the ULTIMATE. The moment you appeal to anything else to verify it is no longer the ultimate authority.

@@Oscardunlap Great point Oscar. I firmly agree, and have used Presuppositional Apologetics myself. By God's grace, you and Daniel did a great job. I listened to the entire debate. May we glorify God, and exalt Christ our King!

@@Acts420Evangelism check this out as well: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-994OgWhz7Bc.html

Calvanists please Mormons, they seek their approval above that of God.

Yup. I often compare Islam and Mormonism

The difference between the two is the LDS acceptance of the bible and the Islamic rejection of the bible.

You know why? Because both Joseph Smith and Mohammed were visited by the Angel of Light. If you are Christian, you know who that is

@@grappling.enthusiast LDS rejects the Bible. They view at as corrupt or incomplete. That’s why they have the Book of Mormon. They actually accept the Bible, they wouldn’t need the BoM

what conclusion have u come to?

So you are a Christian now?

I wish they would have brought up archeological evidence for the Old and New Testament, dna evidence, literary, and artistic evidence. When asked how you know the Bible is true this should have been part of the answer. The two collections that are in modern times called "the Bible" have a wealth of evidence to back them up. Then and only then after reasonably proving the veracity of the Bible can we speak of the spiritual evidence.

TEST OF A PROPHET:THE BIBLE VS JOSEPH SMITH youtu.be/FrqkaKz_S And The Bible vs. the book of mormon ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-2AVksae-Frk.html 2 Corinthians 11:3-4 3)"But I fear, least by any means as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from simplicity that is in Christ. 4)For if that he that cometh preacheth ANOTHER JESUS whom we have not preached, or if ye received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted,ye might will bear with him." Galatians 1:9 If anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed

As a Christian who is an ex-Mormon, I have to admit that the LDS debater's argument against Sola Scriptura & scriptural infallibility is airtight and rock solid. Beyond that, the LDS claim to be the restored Church falls apart completely in other areas. Yet, they are absolutely right that Sola Scriptura & biblical infallibility are man-made doctrines which are ironically not even supported by the 66 books of the Protestant Canon.

Here’s my last syllogism for you. A) God is a great spirit (Alma 18:28) B) A spirit has not flesh and bones C) God does not have flesh and bones Alma 18 supports John 4 with regards to the Father. Even supports Joseph Smith’s position in relationship to Lecture Fifth related to the nature of God from the Lectures on Faith. You should go check it out, Hayden

I still don't understand how there are Mormons in 2022

It’s really a sad case of family curses! One or two parents falling for the false teachings and the passing down to their children, which they have a lot of, and they feel a huge responsibility to their family to stand firm on their false teachings. We have to break generational curses

It is truly amazing that people choose to believe in the Mormon Cult.

@@croppedndocked146 I dont i left the cult many years ago it’s all based on lies if it was true I still be in it but it’s always built on a lie.

@@lovegod84jesus80 Yes, I was one of those and then came across info on RU-vid. I will be baptized as a Christian soon, and not as a Mormon or any other denomination. Feel sick to my stomach about everything I've learned. The saving Grace is the internet and at some point most will come across this info. Can only pray they will see it.

Precisely end of story

@@thebanneredmare9190 Precisely Smith was “glass looking”

The BOM wss written by many Prophets. It was translated by one Prophet of God. And there are many many people who don't buy the crazy story of the bible. It doesn't make them right.

@@thekolobsociety Good debate but I could not discern a clear resolution agreed to by both sides. Your bar was based on the "three problems" while theirs was the "collective witnesses" argument. That said, overall I believe your side had the upper hand.

..."And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth." (John 1:14)

How do you know that verse is truth?

@@randoman33 by the grace of God.

Because God has given us confirmation over confirmation that HIS mighty word the Bible is true!

and the Word was with God: Jesus quoting Psalm 82: JOHN 10: although being a man, make yourself like God.” 34 Jesus answered them: “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said: “You are gods”’? 35 IF HEEE (JEHOVAH) CALLEDD ‘gods’ those against whom the word of God came-and yet the scripture cannot be nullified- 36 do you say to me?? WHOM THE FATHER SANTICTIFIED AND SENT INTO THE WORLD !... ‘You blaspheme,’ because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? Psalm 82: God takes his place in the divine assembly (heaven); In the middle of the gods he judges: 6 “I have said, ‘You are gods, All of you are sons of the Most High. 7 But you will die just as men do (rebel angels)