Growing Up In Polygamy - With Addi McCall from the AUB - Part 1 

I love how Sam adds “Yes we do” after Melissa says you have two beautiful children!

Thankyou for sharing your experiences, it is very interesting to me having grown up in the LDS church and now learning the real history of the church. My bishop father told me that if I persued further education I was not coming home again… I chose to keep learning and growing.

Sam and Melissa, can you reach out to Willy Jessop and interview him. I would love to hear his story from his perspective.

22:22 Thank you, Addie, for bringing up “Educated” by Tara Westover! I was gifted a copy by my Unitarian Universalist small group leaders after I shared some of my life narrative with the group. It’s incredibly empowering to read Tara Westover’s story. One of my favorite quotes from the book is: “We are, all of us, more complicated than the roles we are assigned in the stories other people tell. This is especially true in families.” (Page 334 of the hard bound edition) I find this channel remarkable because Sam and Melissa give people a chance to tell their own stories with nuance and complexity without asking guests to be a character in someone else’s telling of a story.

Thanks to Sam and Melissa for doing these videos because as a person of a different religion I have had a greater understanding of the church that you both brought up in. As a kid brought up in England I did not know anything about it until I did a topic in A-level sociology where my teacher showed us a documentary about it. Since then I have watch a lot of shows/channels because it has fascinate me.

Catholics do the sharing cup for the wine too. I always skipped that part unless my mom did it first. In my child brain she wiped all the germs away of the previous strangers. 😅

I can’t wait for part two. This is so fascinating to learn about the different groups. Thank you Sam and Melissa for your great work!!!!

Hey girl! I totally stumbled on this. One day I'll be in a place to share my story, but I'm cheering you (and others) on until then. As far as the history, succession didn't start with Rulon. The AUB traces their roots from John and Lorin Wooley and then.....a Barlow, maybe? Then Joseph Musser. The split with the FLDS comes from that point according to AUB history, and then Rulon comes from that new council. I think the 1930s was around when it became a cohesive group, but there was still a lot of mixing in the church for a good while.

What a great interview! I studied the Lebanon’s a decade ago and read all the books I could about them and from the women who had been involved. It’s definitely a rabbit hole!

You two just don't stop making great content! Thank you thank you thank you!!!

I’m a descendant of Rulon Allred. One of his wives was Leona Jeffs. What I understand is that after he died she ended up moving to short creek with her children and all of the Allreds in the FLDS are her descendants.

can’t wait to watch! thank in advance for sharing your story addi!!

Christine was an Allred. Rulon was her grandfather. Christine’s mom was a Lebaron by birth Ervil was her uncle; making him Christine’s great uncle

I’m always so interested in the beginning of the LDS and the off shoots AUB. My great Uncle married my great Aunt who was Mormon and he converted. What I was shocked to learn was that on my paternal side my 2 great Grandmother Mary Ella Allred Collier was the daughter of Wilson Monroe Allred who had three wives. When I started looking into my ancestry on Ancestry. Come they used to have message boards. Inset on looking to find out more about Ella’s family. On this message board was a statement that her father Monroe left his first wife and children in Texas because Mary Jennings Allred won’t be baptized into the church. He joyed his father William Hackley Allred and grandfather James Allred to pioneer Utah with his second Elizabeth and third wives Barbara. Once I put this information on to my ancestry tree I had all kinds of cousins reaching out. What they were told is Monroe’s first wife died, then he married again and had a second wife. All not true. He abandoned his first family in Texas wife and five children to go be a pioneer and live polygamy in Utah. Thank goodness my second great grandfather and his brothers married two of the sisters and my three times great Uncle cared for his MIL Mary Jennings Allred. When I hear the name Allred I always wonder if I’m related to any of the these people.

Re AUB endowments: I’ve been listening to the Polyganometry podcast, which is a guy who grew up AUB interviewing his family members. One of his grandfathers was a convert who was essentially recruited by AUB leadership because he had been a LDS temple worker. They were specifically trying to get folks who knew the prayers, scripts, etc. by heart from repetition because they were missing portions of it and wanted to get it back in shape. Until that time (1970s) many AUB had been also attending LDS awards so they could access the temples.

She cane from the same group that Lea Garcia came from she's also on RU-vid you should ask her about her family also.

Read the books by Irene Spencer and Anna LeBaron to learn more about the connections with the Allred’s and LeBarons

Made me chuckle how the cup sharing issue triggered Sam 😂🤭

If I close my eyes while Addi is talking, I picture Christine Brown or her daughter Mykelti talking. They have a very similar tone. I was addicted to TLC as a child 😆

I’m a catholic living in the UK. Different churches in where I am living have different ideas of how to take the a Sacrament of the Eucharist. My primary school was associated with a church that had a barrier between the alter and the people who attended the mass. The church that I was baptised into (this is the first sacrament that catholics believe and it supposed to take original sin away as catholics believe that original sin cam from Adam and Eve when they sinned) you can have the communion 2 ways hands and mouth. This was where I did my first holy communion in my white dress that had a sash with a flower on the front from a department store from Peter Jones (a department store in the UK) Does not have a barrier and we line up to take the wine and the host from Eucharistic minister. The minister that has the wine turn the cup and wipe the cup so there is no germs. For anyone that is not catholic or Christian who needs any additional info on Catholicism and the reformation to the Church of England, Protestantism. I will be happy to explain in more detail about the religion.

8:03 I feel like it’s important to just mention that the cultural ‘trend’ of forms of consensual non-monogamy like throuples, polycules, and and polyamory in general being in the media more does not mean that those people who choose such lifestyles don’t face marginalization. As a woman who was outed as polyamorous in federal court and in media, I think people who practice ethical forms of non-monogamy that are negotiated between all parties involved with transparency are often still shamed and socially looked down upon / misunderstood. Though I grew up in a monogamous household, I have a tough relationship with my family of origin for many reasons. I feel much safer and more supported by my family of choice, a small interconnected polycule full of the kindness and warmth my family of origin was lacking. I take no offense to the mention of a ‘new wave of let’s add a couple of extra people,’ but would strongly recommend considering intentional, ethical polyamory not as a random flippant trend, but as a relational option. Poly fidelity and other forms of negotiated non-monogamous relationship structures have been around since ancient civilizations in various configurations. Those of us who find that such arrangements are more equitable and comfortable for themselves and their loved ones are not just adding people to our relationships because it’s ‘cool,’ in fact, I know many people who have lost a lot of friends and family or have had to keep their relationship dynamics closeted to avoid the stigmatization and shaming that often comes with being open about these matters. I hope this feedback is helpful and doesn’t come across as preachy or rude. I just wanted to lend my voice as someone who has faced cruelty due to not being monogamous. Thank you, Sam and Melissa, for treating people with respect and dignity no matter what their family or community looks like. Please continue to consider the diversity of communities and stories related to what you discuss. Best wishes! (Edited for clarity, 11/30/22)

This was super interesting! Thank you so much for sharing all 3 of your experiences.

My maiden last name was Allred- I’ve actually never heard or met anyone else with that last name until I started learning about the LDS, FLDS, etc. it makes me wonder if I’m related to any of these groups or people

Great episode!!! All y’all were so great.

I'm surprised you guys hadn't heard of Ervil LeBaron. His followers were killing people for blood atonement even after Ervil died in prison. It's a fascinating story! Maybe you guys can interview Anna LeBaron, Ervil's daughter. She wrote a fascinating book called "The Polygamist's Daughter." I've seen her do interviews before.

Loving this interview so much!

Really nice interview.

Anna LeBaron has written a great book about her dad. It’s called “The Polygamist’s Daughter: A Memoir.”

This was really good… you should discuss the show Big love… it is my favourite show…. It has best writing

Lauren Of Hidden True Crimes did an interview of Anna LeBaron. It’s worth the watch. It is a 2 part video on their You Tube Channel.

There is a wonderful podcast called "Deliver Us From Ervil" that tells his story.. he had many people killed including his own daughter

The more educated you are, the harder you are to control. That is a hard core truth.

I would also recommend the book AM recommended too. I really enjoyed it Jane Westover - book title Educated (2018) "debuted at No. 1 on The New York Times bestseller list"

Lynn Thompson's birth name was Worth Kilgrow, my grandfather's name (Sam's great grandfather). .

Hey Cousin! Love the podcast. I'm a descendant of Arthur Benjamin Clark. I'm guessing we are related somehow with Rulon Allred being my grandmother's first cousin....

I love your wonderful family and channel

I know Melissa has on a few videos been very respectful with her words not to reveal "sacred" Mormon practices. This always amuses me as a cult survivor/atheist because I know now that those things aren't sacred, they are probably stupid (secret handshake, whatever was revealed to you by the prophet in secret, etc.) but I know it's hard to shake off so many years of brainwashing. I have always admired Melissa's ability to be respectful to the people in her life who still believe. Me, I was a bull in a china shop when I deconverted... I wanted to spread my newfound truth to them and wake them up from their brainwashed thinking. So I would CONSTANTLY be a heretic and say things out loud that I wasn't supposed to, in an effort to demystify them and take away the pretend power that they had over people.

Sam so triggered by the cup and snotty noses 😂😂😂

Y’all are so wholesome. ❤

Educated is an incredible book! 1000% recommend

Super super interesting as always!

Wow, this was a great interview & nice to see that Addi had a good experience growing up & (though I don't believe in or support the polygamist lifestyle), this group seems to be doing it close to how it was intended to be. Yeah, the book "Educated" is a great, wild story book. Glad I read it. The author seems to have teetered at going off the rails though in her freedom years but, growing up as she did, I could see why.

Are you looked down on if you don’t wear garments in the AUB?

Allred, LeBaron both huge names in the polygamy circles.

You need to read "Under the Banner of Heaven" by Jon Krakow.

Love your background!

Does the mainline LDS believe polygamy will be practiced in heaven.? This question is for Melissa.

Hi Sam and Melissa, I pm on Instagram but I don't know if you got it. I read an article about how the FLDS put on a play where they changed the sound of music into a story about polygamy. Did you see that play? Were you in it, lol :)

Love what y’all are doing! What is the purpose of protecting “sacred” things now that you no longer believe or practice flds and lds religions?

Story of the LeBaron family: the Church of the Firstborn… Once upon a time there was a man named Alma Dayer LeBaron Sr. who was the grandson of Joseph Smith’s private secretary Benjamin F. Johnson. Alma believed that the voices in his head were messages from God. He was excommunicated from the LDS church for practicing polygamy and moved to Mexico. Eventually he bought a ranch which became Colonia LeBaron Alma. He had three notable sons: Ervil, Joel, and Verlan. Both Ervil and Joel served as LDS missionaries in southern Mexico for two years until they were excommunicated for preaching about plural marriage. Eventually, on a trip to Salt Lake City, they discovered Rulon Allred’s Mormon fundamentalist church the “Apostolic United Brethren”. They were members for about ten years. In 1951, Alma died and he passed leadership of the Colonia LeBaron Alma community to his son Joel who incorporated the community as the Church of the Firstborn of the Fulness of Times in Salt Lake City. Joel named his brother Ervil as his second in command and the group began to attract new members. A rift was driven between Ervil and Joel when a family his childhood best friend returned to Colonia LeBaron Alma to discover that his wife had divorced him and married Ervil. The friend immediately complained to Joel who declared that, from now on, a woman had to wait six months after a divorce in order to remarry. Joel ended up buying a ranch in Baja California called Los Molinos and spent more time developing the community there; leaving Ervil in charge at Colonia LeBaron Alma. While at Colonia LeBaron Alma, Ervil began to become more autocratic, introducing corporal punishment and preaching a us-versus-them rhetoric. He incorporated his followers into a new church called “the Church of the First Born of the Lamb of God”. In 1972, Joel was assassinated by followers of Ervil (blood atonement). Ervil turned himself in to an Ensenada police station and was tried for his brother’s murder. However, he was released on a technicality; the assassins never appeared in court. Joel was succeeded by his brother Verlan as leader of the Church of the Firstborn of the Fulness of Times after his assassination. Ervil would spend the next decade trying to kill him. Ervil's followers subsequently raided Los Molinos in an effort to kill Verlan-who was in Nicaragua-but the town was destroyed and two men were killed. Not wanting to wait for the Mexican authorities to change their mind about letting him go, Ervil headed north with his wives and children to establish cells in the United States. He wrote and visited many polygamist leaders, threatening their lives if they did not switch their allegiance to the Church of the Lamb of God or tithe accordingly. He went around killing people (usually through proxy) who attempted to leave him or threaten to go to the police about his actions like his teenage daughter Rebecca. But he hadn’t forgotten about his brother Verlan. In 1977, Ervil though he could flush Verlan out of hiding if he killed the leader of the Apostolic United Brethren, Rulon C. Allred. The idea being that Rulon’s funeral would be to big of an event for Verlan to miss. So he dispatched his 18-year-old wife Rena Chynoweth and his stepdaughter Ramona Marston to Salt Lake to murder Rulon. Once the act was done, he dispatched three of Ervil's other followers, to attended the funeral with orders to kill Verlan and anyone else who got in their way. They aborted their mission when they realized that police were stationed all around the funeral area to protect the mourners. Ervil was captured in Mexico and tried and convicted in the United States for planning Allred's murder. Rena Chynoweth and Ramona Marston were acquitted by a jury for their role in the murder. While incarcerated in Utah, Ervil continued to write testaments for his followers. One of these, the Book of New Covenants, which contained a list of 50 people that Ervil marked for blood atonement. Furthermore, the book a list of who should succeed Ervil as leader of the cult. Ervil died in prison in 1981. His brother Verlan died in a car crash in Mexico City the same day. 25 people are estimated to have been killed as a result of Evril’s prison-cell orders. To this day, many of Evril’s family members and other ex-members of the group remain in hiding for fear of retribution from LeBaron's remaining followers.

I just can't believe that knowing what is known about inherited health issues...people are not worried about marrying even a 2nd cousin...or worried about the fact producing special needs children increases with a mans age...

Just to share a bit about temples and changes from an LDS perspective. The endowment ceremony is a time in the temple when we learn sacred teachings and make covenants with God. We believe these covenants and teachings fuller bind us to Christ and therefore give us spiritual strength throughout our lives. But there is a difference between the actual endowment (covenants and teachings) and the presentation of the endowment (which is the symbolic ceremony that is used to help us understand the endowment). Joseph Smith restored the endowment and that has not changed. But the way it is presented can change as symbols lose their meaning over time as society changes. Jesus taught wonderful teachings through parables or symbolic stories. The parables he used in biblical times made complete sense to the people at that time. But I know I have a hard time understanding! I am sure if Jesus were teaching people today He would use very different parables to demonstrate His lessons. But the lessons themselves would not change.

I am with her, I thought I had a great childhood, but I get that others don’t feel the same

Should you be interested in the LeBaron group, "Deliver us from Ervil" is an extremely well researched podcast about the group.

RED FLAG....don't tell anyone about your 3 moms or who all your siblings are....

I only know about AUB as there is a RU-vid channel called Distinctive Books that makes content for kids and they are members of the one from Rocky Ridge. I don't believe in their beliefs but they seem like a lovely happy family

The creators of “Under the banner of Heaven” need to do another season on LaBaron killing Rulon Allred…. It would be so great! Hulu get with it! Lol

I know very little about the different groups. Having all the churches stemmed from Joseph Smith, do all of them refer to themselves as mormons?

How did it divide from Warren Jeffs and Kingstons, how were they put in charge

Christine Brown is the granddaughter of Rulon Allred.

When Brigham Young, governor of Utah Territory, had some dignitaries & their wives visit from Washington DC, to check things out in the west, they had a formal dinner & without any shame, Brigham introduced the group to 3 or 4 of his wives, maybe thinking that with how well dressed & dignified the wives were, the group would be impressed. Oh, they were sooooo impressed that they high tailed it out of Utah Territory the next day I think, to hurry back & tell the US congress to never allow Utah to get statehood !! Needless to say the wine & dine evening was a big flop.

Thank you Addi.

Sam and Melissa. You MUST read Educated. Then listen to the 3 interviews on Mormon Stories.

Sam do you have any contact with any of your siblings

Y’all’s mics are really echoing

It's nice she had a good experience but most AUB families who share talk about forced marriages, marrying cousins & step children, keeping bloodlines pure, & violence.

So are they still LDS?

Interview Tip....Ask the question, let them answer!

So are Sam and Melissa lds? Or something else?

AUB line of authority Joseph smith Brigham young John Taylor Wilford woodruff Lorenzo Snow Joseph F Smith John W Wooly Lorie C Woolley J Leslie Broadbent John Y Barlow Joseph w. Musser Rulon c Allred Owen A Allred J Lamoine Jenson Lynn Thompson Dave Watson

Hi

Is Addi on RU-vid

Addie actually knows very little history of the AUB so take it with a grain of salt. She also has no idea how the leadership is set up. Or much at all about her faith accept growing up in a family with multiple wives.