He's a Very Naughty Boy: The Infancy Gospel of Thomas 

For a split second I expected 5 year old Jesus caught making clay sparrows on the Sabbath to tell Joseph, “You’re not my real dad!”

Whats most interesting is that in surah 3 and surah 5 of the Quran, we have Jesus breathing life into clay birds; a clear reference of this infancy gospel.

The Family Gospels is a sitcom waiting to happen

If Jesus had a twin brother and the resurrection was actually the ol' switcharoo... man... they really got us good. 🤣

30:00 Most dads: "Measure twice, cut once" Joseph: "Jesus, come here! I did it again"

The missing years, yes. Like every nice Jewish boy, Jesus went to Eton as a teenager, then studied theology at Oxford, and did his PhD on Apocalypse at Cambridge.

My parents got fed up with the congregational church when they supported a story of a child, disobeying his parents and leaving his house to go hear Jesus preach

I always hear the line from Monty Python’s LIFE OF BRIAN when Brian’s mother won’t let Brian out of the house so those who mistook him for the Messiah can see him, because “He’s been a very naughty boy!”. I’m sure the tag line is no accident, and grateful for another excellent piece from Bart Ehrman - one of the world’s most respected biblical scholars.

bart seems like such a nice, kind, wholesome person! like a nice dad!

This reminds me of that Twilight Zone episode where the boy could read minds and would kill anyone who wasn't nice to him. Talk about stressful!

Love this episode title. "Blessed are the cheesemakers..."

Hahahahahah, the title of this episode is my favorite line from Life of Brian, and I am utterly delighted.

I’d like to see more if Bart interviewing guests. He would be able to have such great questions and take us on a journey of discovery each time in fields that are not is own.

Had my thumb over the screen and thought we were going to read the Fancy Gospel of Thomas 😂

This is the first Gnostic Gospel I read in full and I enjoyed every minute of it.

I've been hoping for this episode for the longest time!

Thank you so much Chris Frilingos for that promotional code, I was going to add this book to my infinitely growing list of awesome books to buy, and probably wait a billion years to get, you guys absolutely rock! I can't wait to crack my copy open when it eventually will arrive. :)))))))

The story in Luke is likely apocryphal, but I think it suggests that the childhood stories were floating around already, and Luke is trying to capture at least one of them in a way that, in his mind, made sense as foreshadowing the resurrection. The discovery of Jesus 3 days later reflects the resurrection; Jesus is aware of his purpose; the sorry and worry caused by him leaving his family is justified by his mission.

Great interview as always, thank you Bart and Chris! I love listening the academic perspective on the bible and the apocrypha, it astonishes to me how both of you can convey information on the matter in a clear, unambiguous and non-bias way. I think this podcast is doing a great deal of good for many people, religious or not, because it informs people well on the subject and shows how people over the centuries articulated their beliefs. I pity those who wilfully refuse to listen to this goldmine of knowledge.

really seems to paint the young jesus as a supervillain's origin story

Super interesting! I feel privileged to have the opportunity to sit in and hear this conversation between experts who have studied ancient history for their whole professional careers.

The very title got me cracking up. Thanks for that.

Best episode ever! 😀

Other than the miracles and the fatalities, it sounds very much like my old school.

Wow! That was a fast hour! I really enjoyed this episode Bart and Chris...looking forward to your next visit together!

The first time I heard about this it reminded me of the Superman films where they show him as a little boy on the farm of Mr and Mrs. Kent first learning about his super powers!

Hey, last week they said this week the topic was James and Paul.

I really appreciate the Gospel of Thomas in particular and how Elaine Pagels has elucidated said text.

It must be a different culture. I have a 10 and a half year old. I can't imagine in 2 years going on a trip and not seeing her for 3 days and just assuming she's with her friends somewhere else in the group LOL.

Great show guys, thanks. I love the Gnostic Gospels & recommend Bart’s book, The Lost Scriptures which includes all of the important texts from Nag Hammadi alongside the epistles that didn’t make into the New Testament, apocalypses & non-canonical acts

Already the best video in this series!😂😂

Thank you.

There is no end of questions and the deeper you dig the more the questions pile up. Couldn't God have done a much better job of revealing what happened to future generations of seekers!?

I heard about these stories back in high school as The Childhood Gospel of Thomas…I always thought referring to these as Infancy Gospels would be a misnomer since Infant implies inability to speak…Anyways…big fan of these stories…thank you so much Bart and guest for covering this topic!

To me, this just illustrates, even more dramatically, the ridiculousness of the whole Jesus H.Christmastree myth! It was worth a hearty belly-laugh or two or three!

The 5 year old with the birds reminds me of my mother saying, "Don't do that, you're embarrassing me."

excellent presentation. T Y

Jesus is presented as a child almost like one of those impish capricious mischievous early Greek gods. Great discussion. Looking forward to part 2.

My take. Jesus was given a strong middle to upper middle class father and a knowledgeable, possibly able to read mother who disciplined him with difficulty and paid for teachers. The most difficult children seem to be the smartest. His slightly older cousin John established a "religion?" That later put Jesus above John. I like the story of the wedding at Canaan where mom tells him they are out of wi e and he gives a teenage awe mom response. Mom then tells the servants to do what he tells them, knowing her son will obey her and create wine.

OMG. Finally!

I seem to remember Ma and Pa Kent having similar difficulties.

Really interesting discussion -- thank you both!

Oh wow, this was recorded a month ago. UNC is 8-2 now, not 6-0

Best title ever.

Teaching human frailty. Like remove this cup by your will father not mine. Bleeding tears...human frailty is what is being taught. Like Peter denying him and blessed with great responsibility. Like all the 7 churchs in John Armageddon, yet still blessed.

I loved every minute of this episode

Can you do an episode on the Bauer theory?

You guys are fun! That MI guy's family life thesis seems right. This stuff seems not much different for Apuleius and the like. Early First Century Novels

I learned two things today. Number one, Jesus was a meanie as a kid, number two baldness has been around since thousands of years and do not piss of a bald man especially if he's a Prophet of God. 😂

Sounds like the second century version of jumping the shark…

What date is associated with the writing of these gospels. C.E 80? Or later? What is the age of the oldest document and how/who copied them?

7:04 discussion begins

"What would the son of God be like as a 5 year old?" There was a Twilight Zone episode about a prepubescent boy who had godlike powers. Things didn't turn out so well.. LMAO

I believe a similar story about the beams extending is in the Mishnah, told about Hanina benDoza

Listen to John Prine "Jesus, The Missing Years" lolol

It would be fascinating to find out what happened between 12 and 30. He at some point became a disciple of John but that's a lot of time. Also, it would be prime time for marriage.

I'm reminded of how unaware we tend to be of applying our western, psychosocial values to these ancient writings. Our current ideal of Jesus as a perfect being is almost exclusively characterized as loving, forgiving, and omnipotently wise, and that does not appear to be entirely true for the Bronze Age and the period following Jesus's life in the Levant. Edit: It leads to dilemmas when we insist on a literal interpretation of the bible, even excluding these non-canonical gospels.

Really unique point of Mary's view. She knew the boy son of God. But she totally ignored the divine of the boy. So when did the boy get the status of divine?

Most of the people have never even heard of these writings let alone read them.

Well when the writer jump from early infancy to adult, they are making a parallel with moose’s, one guided the people of Israel to the promised land and the other guided them to the kingdom of heaven through his sacrifice. Hence in that gospel is there a mention to moose’s being called from Egypt.My two cents

Starts roughly around 7:00.

I'm often at times like this reminded of The Buddha, or rather stories of The Buddha. Buddhist stories were already in oral circulation at the time of Jesus. We have predictions of an auspicious birth, crowds flocking to hear his words, disciples etc.. The famous Christian saying 'love thy neighbour' is not exactly predated by Buddhism nevertheless the sentiment is a common one in the Buddha's teaching. And as for 'turn the other cheek' I'm afraid Jesus was very much beaten to that one too.

These Gospels sound like "It's a Good Life" from the Twilight Zone, with Billy Mumy playing the role of Jesus and wishing people into the cornfield!

Sounds like Mark Twain's The Mysterious Stranger.

How I contacte dr bart ehrman

Aircraft designers have to think carefully about what could go wrong. They try very hard to make sure the passengers come to no harm. God, of course, knows the future and can do anything.

Got to ask... So he is *not* the messiah...? (Sorry, I'll show myself out...).

Any suggestion that these stories may have been written as moral stories to tell children?

There is a good chance that Jesus had to face aggressive kids/teens ( just like many youth have to face today) and he could read their true intent and we don't have access to that information.

The Quran also has a story of Jesus, turning clay into birds

Luke’s version only gives an account of the smartass teenager Jesus. Best example for kids!

These two would be great professors. They make learning interesting and exciting.

I've always loved that bear story, myself. Any God who summons bears to maul the shit out of a group of annoying kids has earned my respect.

This really makes me sympathize with the mythicist position, because so much of this stuff is just fiction

Using the metric of things are more likely true if they are "hard" and we can't imagine people making them up, then Jesus must really be like this! ahhh!

His origin story was like a very dark Megamind.

I wonder how they know its not a satire? I assume they don't entertain that for good reason, but as they describe it, it sounds like something say an Adoptionist could write showing ridiculous the idea of combining fully divine all powerful eternal being in a fully human child would be.

This information about Jesus going to school, may settle the debate about whether he was literate or not. And, considering the aspect that Jesus was both fully divine and fully human: when he was a human child, he behaved as human children usually do, with some naughtiness here and there. From this perspective, killing the odd kid and cursing teachers - considering the many instances of his (in his form as Yahweh) striking people dead in OT, and being very harsh and cursing people such as Jezebel in NT - might not contradict these anecdotes from the Infancy Gospel of Thomas. By the way, I’m not Christian and never have been, but very interested in all perspectives. Thanks for a great session, Bart and Christopher.

Sounds like that Twilight Zone episode with Billy Mumy. "It's a Good Life" 1961

Disappointed that nobody actually said the phrase in the title. Although Megan didn't take part in the interview, I imagine that that title is something to do with her!

What is the earliest copy in existence? Where was it first found?

If you want the concept of non sequitur applied until the cows come home, listen to these two people.

Suck up to God or you're dead. That's basically always the theme in the bible too.

Did you ever think that being born in the image of God-but also as a man, it is only sensible to conclude that a child going from boyhood to manhood has to do bad things to learn right from wrong.

Would you please discuss the gospel of Biff? There is some nice stuff about his adolescence and young adulthood 😜

Go Green Go White!!! Love this channel. Now I love it even more because you have awesome guests. Well worth my time, as always!! Thanks Bart.

around 33:00, tickled to think that North Korean dictators follow the mold of ancient biographies

Did Joseph know that Jesus was the son of God? If not, that might explain some of his interactions with Jesus in this gospel.

If Jesus was their only child, how did they lose him?

If this gospel was written more than a hundred years after Jesus' death - there would be no longer any witnesses of his bad behaviour. Obviously these stories were cooked up later to re-enforce Jesus as a supernatural being.

👍

This is just me nerding out, but the part with 5 year old Jesus making clay birds and then having them come to life and fly away, reminds me heavily of Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood where in the anime characters use the power system of alchemy to create things, and it just feels like Jesus is an alchemist from that universe creating things. Really cool mental image for me.

I always thought that these stories made him look more like the anti Christ and also why he was so weird about going home in the new testament

Greetings all. What’s interesting is the story of Jesus making clay birds that then fly is actually in the Quran.

Since Jesus Christ was not earthbound and truly everpresent,everywhere at the same time...Everything is for our benefit. The true author of life ever shares true love. Even having a sense of humor. Guess thats why some theologians ask, what do you think you were doing 4000 years ago? Changing death is beyond understanding. Save by grace. No doubt Christ is crazy cool.

It's amazing to me that scolars of biblical texts miss things that are obvious. It seems to me that a good possibility is that part of what these so called infancy Gospels are trying to show the difficulty of an all powerful being manifesting himself as a human with all the frustration that involves and how this being has to learn patience tolerance and compassion in a real life circumstance that all humans have to go through while still having this power and knowledge they don't have. It's ki d of an evolution from being an unyielfding tyrant to a compassionate savior, somewhat of a bridge between the old testament vengeful God and the new testament comlassionate Jesus. The co trast between the old and New testament Gods was a huge controversy at the time. Not saying the rest of this isn't part of that but I think there is a larger picture here. Also why don't these scholars ever think to mention that Thomas might be reffering to himself as the spiritual, mystical twin, equal and in union with the divine as is Jesus instead of merelythe genetic physical twin. They acknowledge the Gospel of Thomas is about unity but then they cling to mundane definitions. I respect Bart quite a bit but I find he, and most scholars atheist or otherwise, that come out of these Christian traditions cling to those Christian closed box concepts a lot more than they realize, even when defining what an atheist and many other things are. Also the eastern influence on Christianity is mostly ignored. it's well known that Buddhist missionary influences were prominent as early as the 3rd century BCE. Many sayings supposedly by Jesus are really almost word. for word eastern from centuries earlier, Confuncian Buddhist and others. The world then smaller was much more interactive than these studies show. The efforts shown by trying to say Jesus went to India are efforts to explain these Eastern influences but the truth is that trade, efforts of eastern authorities and powers like Ashoka, back and forth colonization and just plain intermixing of all ki ds of cultures are a big part of Chriatian evolution and Greece was a hotspot of these activities partly because of its location.

Joseph and Mary must have been the richest family in Nazareth with all that gold, frankincense, and myrrh they got from the Magi.

it’s not the same with Megan the assyriologist

Pretty sure that’s not Jesus childhood, it’s Damien!

Did schoolboy Jesus turn the other cheek when he got wedgied by the school jocks?