"The Master I should have known" "Yes you should have done Doctor, because it happens every fucking week!"- These two lines sum up the Pertwee era perfectly.
Sometimes a basic story can be a terrific time depending how it’s executed. My all time fav DW is “The Invasion” which is one of the most generic plot lines from the long running show. But darn it all, everything is executed so well it makes it top shelf DW for me
@@BlueSkyBS Controversial opinion, I think he’s utilised better then the master in the majority of their stories. Him and Patrick have incredible rapport.
People in fluffy bee costumes and the doctor and co wandering around sound stages for two and a half fucking hours is like Samuel Beckett - a deep and academic essay by Stuart Hardy
@@Stubagful "Faceless ones is a good episode, because I'm scared of airports, Sea Devils is a bad episode, because I love swimming, and worship Lucifer"
@@Stubagful To be fair, we mostly see the Sea Devil swimming in the shallows, they don't explore much deeper. This is why Legend of the Dea Devils is showing the Doctor at the bottom of the ocean, Chibnall heard you asking for more depth, and he delivered.
"If the fate of the world is at stake, we're not sitting around eating fucking sandwiches, alright?" You're exactly right. We're having parties in Downing Street.
You can tell the producers fell in love with the Holmes/Moriarty dynamic between the Doctor and Master. But Moriarty only appears twice in the dozens of original stories and only once with Holmes directly. Less is more, that’s why the Tom Baker period works better. The Master appears three times in seven years. But they almost fall back into the trap with Peter Davison’s run.
I will say that subjectively I disagree. Of Baker's three encounters with the Master I think only "the Deadly Assassin" holds up as a good story and on the whole I vastly prefer the Pertwee era to Tom's. Though to each their own!
I would characterize a lot of Pertwee as comfy Sunday afternoon viewing, which is probably not what you watch Doctor Who for. I quite like The Sea Devils, but it's by no means my favourite Pertwee. No mention of the fencing scene? Also, Roger Delgado is terrific, simply the best actor in the Pertwee era.
For the record, I see nothing wrong with eating a plate of sandwiches while the world's fate hangs in the balance. (Those sandwiches did look delicious.)
The Earthbound Pertwee stories like this are perhaps a bit lacking in substance, I can admit, but there's something fuzzy and comforting about them in a way that other eras don't quite capture. Of course, it's only comforting when viewed through the lens of peering into an interesting alcove of the show's past, safe in the knowledge of being back to normal now. I know I for one would would be freaking out if they tried to pull a drastic format-change like that in the modern show. But for the experiment that was the Earthbound Pertwee stories, I think Sea Devils is one of the most watchable and entertaining examples that it produced. Out of the three Sea Devil stories that we've now had, this first one is still definitely my favorite.
fuzzy and comforting is _exactly_ why the 3d Doctor era will always be my favourite that and it was the first Classic era that I watched through and through, so there's that
The 3rd Doctor’s era is formula Doctor Who, however it’s elevated thanks to its characters & ambition to tell these stories that makes it fun to watch. The Sea Devils is the prime example. I can’t say the same with Legend of the Sea Devils.
*I can't fault anything Stu is saying.* For me though, i see this era through the rose-tinted glasses of warm and fuzzy post-nostalgia. It's so very 70's and so very focused on the Pertwee Doctor and Delgado Master dynamic it can't help but charm the pants off me no matter how technically formulaic and stunted the writing gets at times.
This was a really interesting watch mostly because I have tried (and failed) to find a video of yours where you talk about the Third Doctor and his era at length. However, while I do agree that it's not as good or profound as the original Silurian story, The Sea Devils is still a great romp - in my top ten Pertwee stories.
I love Pertwee's era too and would go so far as to say its easily my favourite era of DW. I also much prefer "and the Sea Devils" to "and the Silurians" I found a lot of the politicis dry in Silurians and while yes its more philosophical, also more stale. Ultimately if I want to watch a sci fi show for deep or profound philosophical questions I'd look more towards the high quality episodes of the Twilight Zone or perhaps a film like Blade Runner or, more recently, Interstellar. For Doctor Who, a monster (the more rubbery the better) attacking humans with a cape clad smoking jacketed hero swooping in with his stunning assistant to save us and reveal the slightly pantomime Svengali repeat villain is exactly what the Doctor ordered...
Oh come on, you didn't point out how Doctor Who and The Silurians' incidental music sounds like it was done with a kazoo, and somehow The Sea Devils has a worse score. Or that they made the Private Secretary gluttonous as an attempt at a symbolic character trait, including a scene where he puts seven heaping spoonfuls of sugar in his tiny cup of tea. Or how it just brushes off the Doctor blowing up the Sea Devils at the end when he was extremely disapproving of the Brigadier doing near to the same at the end of The Silurians. And I love the Sea Devils. It makes my top three of Doctor Who stories. But that's because A. I'm a sucker for swordfights & B. This was one of the first Classic Who serials I saw as part of a set with all of the Silurian stories, and frankly going from this straight to Warriors of the Deep might have permanently heightened my opinion of The Sea Devils.
I agree with pretty much everything said in this review and laughed a good few times.. but The Sea Devils is still one of my favourite stories of the show even with all that said and done. One of the first Classic stories I saw as a young kid and just loved it since - but very happy to concede it's mid-series fluff. Very much a comfort story for me, probably because it is so light and harmless with no deeper hidden meaning so I can chuck it on and just enjoy watching the Doctor smack a Sea Devil in the head.
For the next Silurian/sea devil episode I’d love it to be about them learning to share the planet with humans in the 25th century or something. It could be a little tense with characters on both sides stirring up hostility but ultimately good natured characters come together to solve the problem alongside The Doctor. The sea devils have so much potential but are never explored beyond blaghhh we aRe ThE MoNstERSs
Great vid and also you have a lot a valid points. Just curious Stuart, are you gonna continue making Big Finish vids? I really miss those and also your awesome stickman drawings.
Nobody wants to say a bad word about the Pertwee era? Nobody was saying anything nice about the Pertwee era in the 90's and early 00's, especially on the DW newsgroups of the time.
"The Master, I should have known!" "Yes, you should have, Doctor, because it happens every fucking week!" lmao that bit is like you read my mind's file on season 8 or something
I think the fact that I’ve only seen so much of the 3rd Doctor’s run (and not in order) means the repetitive nature of the Doctor/Master dynamic doesn’t bother be too much because it’s probably been months since I last saw them together. Probably why I came away with a much higher opinion of the Master material over the Sea Devil stuff, because I wasn’t burnt out on the dynamic and I do think this is probably one of the best instances where they get to verbally spar and banter.
3rd Doctor Era was probably my favorite to watch growing up, so I quite enjoyed this one. One thing I really liked about the early pertwee era, was that most of them were set on earth, and featured UNIT alongside various UK military branches. This made the stories a lot more grounded, and I think seeing how the human military handles a possible alien invasion is a pretty fun concept. And well I'm a bit of a military nerd, so I quite enjoying seeing the royal navy throw depth charges at the fish aliens lmao. Pretty much anything featuring UNIT is something I will watch from doctor who. Still I agree its a pretty straight forward story, and I get that its not everybody's cup of tea. Though I think there is a lot room for different kinds of stories in doctor who.
Sorry, for al It's faults I bloody adored this! Delgado is superb and I loved the design of the sea Devils. Imo It's easy to take the piss, but back then this came across to many as far more interesting then it would have been had it been made decades later. It become one of the most iconic Pertwee stories too. A view shared by my friend Robert Allsopp who made the latest version of them and agreed with Chibnal that visually they should stay as close to Freidlanders original as possible. In fact Friedlander is getting a credit for them in tonights end titles, which I thought was nice. :) Of course we have no idea what the script will be like....lol Oh and you do realise this was made mainly for kids sweetie. lol....
Especially season 8. Just when it looks like the Master isn't involved and you can breathe a sigh of relief, such as in Claws of Axos and Colony in Space, they suddenly drop a Master on you about half way through and it's like "aww sh*t not again".
Well being confined to earth in one point in time meant that they had 3 years where they really didn't use the tardis Look at the first season Aliens from space Ancient species Aliens from space Alternative dimension They used alien invasion twice, having the master chase down the doctor to face off against him time and time again may seem like a cheap move but it gives a better reason for the invasions, the master using or being used to ultimately destroy the doctor, look what happened after he escaped Similar points that had been already used Yes he's a pantomime villain but let's face it, hes the last major villain to be introduced and used with every doctor, like the daleks and cybermen
He appears 8 times (only 5 are in a row) in Pertwee's era, 3 times in T Baker's, 5 times in Davison's, 2 times in C Baker's and then 1 time in McCoy's era and another 1 time in the McGann TV Movie
He appears 20 times in classic who He appears 12 times in new who (including the centenary and missy's appearances in series 10, without that the master appears 7/8 times)
The Pertwee era does suffer a lot from 6 episode stories where most of the episodes are just filler. The Sea Devils starts off well but it's as shallow as a kiddies paddling pool. The Master was in it FAR too often. The thing is the Sea Devils has a bit of charm to it thanks to Pertwee but this is entirely missing from Chibnall's version as Jodie is basically reading her shopping list.
The Sea Devils is a good story, but I always found the Silurians a vastly superior story. Sea Devils i always found overrated. Something like Fury from the Deep is what I expected Sea Devils to be.
Having recently watched the Pertwee era in its entirety...yeah, I'm not especially keen on this era either. There were very few stories that I would classify as being bad, but at the same time there aren't many that I'd call great either. I think the combination of the formulaic nature of the stories, the fact we spend most of the era grounded on contemporary Earth, the significant pacing problems that a lot of them have, and the Third Doctor's characterisation (if my biggest problem with the Thirteenth Doctor is that she's too insecure and gets panicky way too easily, then the Third Doctor has the exact opposite problem) was what resulted in me not being as keen on this era as certain other periods of Classic Who. At the same time though, "The Sea Devils" was a story that I really enjoyed and found to be one of the highlights from this era, in spite of it having similar problems to other episodes from the time. To be honest though, I'm not entirely sure why this story in particular was such a standout to me; maybe it's because Pertwee, Delgado and Manning were especially good in this one; maybe it was the humour; maybe it's the Sea Devils being such well-designed monsters in spite of their limited characterisation; or maybe it's just the fact that I enjoy good submarine-based action scenes. Whatever the reason, I find this to be a really strong story that's really entertaining and well-executed, even if it's not the most groundbreaking or exceptional story ever made
It was trendy to trash the Pertwee era in the wilderness years. Check out the book 'License Denied' which has a ton of 90's fan articles that make fun of that period of the show, including a 'Make your own Pertwee episode' formula.
Great review, do you think you'll ever continue your 8th doctor audios series? I've been going through his stuff and watching your reviews as I listen to them, currently on Dark Eyes.
I fucking love the Pertwee era because of how cozy and relaxing it is. Watching the Sea Devils is such a pleasant, relaxing, nostalgic experience that the tiny logistical and narrative flaws really don't matter. It's got a function and it's damn good at it, from where I stand.
“No if the fate of the world is at stake we are not sitting around eating FUCKING SANDWICHES” … Err Jo was hungry also this is such an odd angry criticism, did someone go after you for eating a sandwich because it feels slightly vindictive & passive aggressive
Okay as someone for whom Pertwee was their first classic doctor and still has a massive soft spot for his era... I see your point. It's consistent there are few bad ones but seen one Pertwee, seen them all to some extent (Tho S10 is my favourite over S7). To me, this story reads like Malcolm Hulke being tasked with writing for what amounts to an advert for the Navy and so he includes as many jabs at them as possible. Nepotism crops up a lot even among the good guys- Trenchard and Hart break rules cause they know each other, the Doctor stopped the Master from being executed cause they used to be friends. Calling it a theme might be a stretch but it is there IMO (if I wanted to be conspiratorial, I'd call it a jab at Barry Letts given that he got all the Navy ships and people to film with for free cause partly cause he used to be ex-Navy)
The one thing I hope Chibs addresses in the special is, given the animosity towards humans, why the Sea Devils would allow the Silurians to address them by the human name in Warriors On The Cheap. That must be like being the red-headed middle child who's told he was adopted.
I’m a little saddened by the fact you don’t enjoy the Pertwee era as he is my favorite Doctor and I was hoping we’d see more videos of you discussing the era (totally get why you do BTW. Just love Jon as the Doctor). However, I am SO thankful you acknowledged that the Stans of this era reach to make political points about Pertwee episodes. That stuff happens far too frequently. Mostly by people trying to defend Chibnall’s era with the retort: “they both are super political so that means they’re both faultless.” It sucks being a Pertwee fan sometimes…
Stopping to eat sandwiches while the world is at stake isn’t even a unique thing to this story in season 9, an almost identical thing happens in the time monster, where in the middle of all of time supposedly being at threat… the doctor stops and asks if they could have tea, and they drink tea and eat sandwiches while talking about how IF THEY DON’T ACT NOW, THE MASTER WILL TAKE OVER THE UNIVERSE
The Sea Devils is certainly formulaic for its era (villain causes friction between somewhat justified creatures and humans because world domination is a thing, close-minded bureaucrat wants to wipe out creatures for no reason, etcetera), but it is a lot more enjoyable than most of season 9, and it's one of the stories that got me into the Pertwee era in the first place.
I watched this one just last week and apart from a few comically good moments like the sword fight and the war secretary wanting to nuke everyone it was a pretty standard Pertwee story.
On another note being confined to earth in one point in time meant that they had 3 years where they really didn't use the tardis Look at the first season Aliens from space Ancient species Aliens from space Alternative dimension They used alien invasion twice, having the master chase down the doctor to face off against him time and time again may seem like a cheap move but it gives a better reason for the invasions, the master using or being used to ultimately destroy the doctor, without the master they'd have to think of new reasons for every invasion, they would of been pretty much the same, look what happened after he captured and escaped Similar points that had been already used Mutants, timelords send the doctor off just like colony in space and peladon Three doctors, besides the fact that its a special aliens invade for something they want Alternative future with daleks, didn't we do a parallel storyline And a final story where the master is involved against unit Yes he's a pantomime villain but let's face it without him the stories would and I do mean would of got stale anyway, he's also the last major villain to be introduced and used with every doctor, like the daleks and cybermen
I know Classic Who was not at all intended for marathoning/binging through episodes but I've been doing that on iPlayer and with Season 8, I was bored by the 3rd story due to how repetitive they felt while watching back to back.
I find it very surprising that Malcolm Hulke is behind this story, a fun romp for sure but no way as political, interesting or thought-provoking as Silurians.
Tbh I'm fine if people dislike classic who aslong as it constructive and isn't just "duh hallways and cheap props" like how robot chicken did a parody on doctors who with their nerd character just felt like Americans doing the "British with X and Y duh" and never constructive as if classic American shows were perfect master works But when you explain your reviews you make sure is of just what you feel from the show like as a kid i like sea devils but only cause of the designs but i can understand the master stealing the episodes he in (so much that big finish had to give him his own shows) Is same when i dislike some of new who as i noticed some problems even in modern era that not improved from the classics Btw thanks for your big finish suggestions as i been listening to some and you got me to love Pauls doctor (tho i like dr who movie despite what others say) especially chime of midnight which fucking hell i didn't know But i will say RED was meh to me i think cause the doctor rolling his Rs when saying red is kinda funny
It's odd that Doctor Who has the paradox of being hated for going overboard with exposition and being hated for no exposition. Apparently, Legend of the Sea Devils is horrible just for not having exposition of the Doctor did the phone stuff that allows you call people anywhere in time with Dan's phone at some point off screen that was already explained in the RTD era.
Really? That's what people are focusing on? My problem was characters describing stuff I can see onscreen and the doctor literally saying the episode's elevator pitch out loud This fandom's lack of critical faculties stuns me
@@Stubagful It was only one person complaining about the phone thing on Twitter (And I hope it stays as only one person complaining about it). The phone thing is just a bullshit nitpick for the sake of bullshit nitpicks. The simple solution for good exposition is explain what's only relevant. A culprit to doctor who overboard exposition problem is the dumb "Kids are watching" excuse which is why the shows exposition can be patronizing.
That's a pretty fair assessment of Pertwee's era, like I enjoy it partially cause it's one of the pulpier eras while intercutting enough commentary to actually have something to say imo. It doesn't always need a ton of messaging, just enough to give the pulpy action some kind of focus which i think on average this era did well. As for Delgado, I definitely know what you mean. Dude just draws the eye and feels like the biggest deal in whatever story he shows up in. I definitely think they should have drip fed us that sweet Delgado instead of giving us an American serving size of Soda worth of Delgado. Too much of a good thing is still too much.
I'd really love to see someone try the inverse of the Pertwee exile and either block the Doctor from landing on contemporary Earth or even better blow it the fuck up and be done with it.
I agree with you I couldn’t finish it on my first viewing imo overall it’s fine and personally I don’t think it deserves the level of praise it gets, I do love the sea devils in it and the iconic shots from it tho
By this point, The Master had become a now-and-then, rather than a constant adversary, as he'd been the previous series, which for me works better. The Sea Devils as a story is a bit of a rerun of the Silurians, though the costume design and incidental music are way better. Hulke's best, for me, remain The War Games and Invasion of the Dinosaurs - the latter being a sharp little send up of the British Communist Party's unwillingness to accept Stalin was up to anything dodgy. No - really.
I feel like this story could have worked because the story kinda ends with Master convincing the Sea Devils that humans are shit which goes against every previous encounters with the master at this point, I feel like if maybe they had played that up more, but I see your point
Of course your lords and masters of the British Empire don’t need to eat sandwiches when dealing with a major crisis. No, they must have a cup of tea, perhaps several. Also some nice biscuits, and maybe that cake with the little silver balls. Yes, stiff upper lip and little silver ball, that’s the British way!
Since I have very little investment in the Sea Devils or even the 3rd Doctor, I'll use this comment to ask a question that has weighed heavily upon my mind: Has the Doctor ever referred to something he knows from Gallifrey that he encounters on Earth as a "space _____" In the same way that a human visiting Gallifrey might have referred to, for example, a vehicle they saw as a "space car?" Would it be too late in the series for a Doctor to start doing that? Would the joke be in any possible way worth it?
Hulke very nearly disowned this one because he felt the compromises made in the script to get the Navy on board turned the story from a hippie lefty diatribe on the horrors of kill or be killed to a jingoistic recruitment film. Honestly I can't say I blame him. Its the ONLY Classic episode I've seen with bad sound design/incidental music (as opposed to EVERY SINGLE nWHO EPISODE TO DATE) but damnit DAT SWORDFIGHT and the Doctor putting that misoginistic minister in his place makes up for it.
Wow you have exactly the same view as me on this. I simultaneously love and struggle with the Pertwee era in general, and I must say he’s my least favourite classic Doctor mostly for the reasons you laid out. The Sea Devils has always been a story that I’ve never seen what’s good about, if perhaps episodes 1, 5 and 6 were the whole story it would be a bit better but it seems to be very much in Sitcom of the Doctor mode and not focusing on the monster of the week
Why do people like ASea Devils so much? Answer to that question is - Sea Devils has easily the best soundtrack in Who. The only ep with experimental electronic music throughout (Roland System 4). New Who should do the same a d stop leaning on orchestra sounds and twee tunes. From wikipedia.. Clarke's score was entirely electronic, created on the Radiophonic Workshop's EMS Synthi 100 synthesizer. His score for the serial has been described as "startling in its range of obtrusive electronic timbres and relative melodic paucity", "mixed music and sound effects" and "presented uncomfortable sounds to a substantial early evening audience on Saturdays in a way not duplicated in Britain before or since".[
Funnily enough my knowledge gap in Classic Who is the 3rd to 5th Doctor. While I have seen a couple of 4th and 5th Doctor stories now. The 3rd era, I've been told I'm not missing much in not seeing it.
You are missing a good deal, spearhead from space, the silurians, inferno, terror of the autons, claws of axos, sea devils, the three doctors, carnival of mosters, the green death, the time warrior, planet of the spiders, all great stories I never used to be fond of the third doctor's era eother until I marathoned most of it recently and a lot of the stories are better than I originally thought they were when I watched them previously
@@TheRealUnkn0wn_289 My favourite Classic Doctor is Troughton (I have already seen Three Doctors, for that reason). Favourite Classic villain being the Cybermen. I know the latter is missing from the 3rd era. Things that influence the recommendations I've been given.
The pertwee era is just grand, just behind the 4th dr for me. Some of the best stories (inferno, carnival of monsters, silurians, green death, peladon, time warrior and more), pertwee is delightful, the brigadier, heck I even kind of love the whomobile. It’s got its duds (a time monster, the mutants) but it’s well worth the time to check out the top 10 pertwee stories.
well tbh third era is easily my least favorite. But you forgot about Carnival of Monsters, the first holmes story that may actually be his best (at least best for 3rd imo) and there's at least some meta-textual self-reflexitivity happening there albeit quite not subtle.
Actually literary reading is always possible with classic who or any tv show really. 3rd doctor is a perfect manifestation of 70s anxiety and contradiction. Yearning for a return to order, patriarchy and authority after the death of 2nd doctor along with the 60s, yet simultaneously irritated by that order. Maybe that's why my 2nd favorite serial from 3rd doc era is The Time Monster, it's brilliant and deconstructive to the core even though it's probably not intentional (while Carnival of Monsters is).
Just one little nitpick on the topic of exposition: Yeah, agreed that overly Chibnall-esque info dumps (like in that Jo clip) are clumsy and borderline laughable, but the reason you give for it is a sound one... however, presenting no exposition to at least give the audience a hint, thereby forcing them to go to Google for more details is the opposite extreme and no more acceptable. Of course, exposition dumps are less noticeable when more skillfully crafted, so there's that.
“Very clever of you,” said the Master. “Do you realise you have just committed mass murder?” The Doctor looked down at the seething water as the helicopter turned and flew them back to safety. He said nothing. What the Master had just said was true. (Doctor Who and the Sea Devils) Oh, and the music’s brilliant.
