Height Speaker Placement For Atmos? 

How high is your ceiling? - Joe

I don't know if you've tried it yourself or if you're basing it on what you expect to happen. I used to think it worked the way you described it, but my experience was different. I've had both on-wall and on-ceiling speakers in the same room using the same speakers in the SVS Prime Elevations. What I found my ability to perceive sounds coming from above me was satisfied by using on-wall heights speakers. Rain sounded like it was coming from above my head. I also have a top speaker aka voice of God speaker when I use Auro3D, and I have a tough time noticing that sound is coming from that location even though it's above my head. It adds very little to the perception of sounds above my head. I've done specific tests when I play discrete content only to that top speaker and it is very difficult to localize. A sound played from my four on-wall heights speakers and center height, can reproduce a height effect that sounds perceptually the same to me as using the top speaker. The newer Denon and Marantz AVR's now allow users to matrix the top middle speakers as the voice of God speaker and I think that's a good idea so people can try it with both Atmos and Auro3D. I have one coming in to test, but I think what I might find is that matrixing might even produce a better effect than a single top speaker.

Place each height speaker directly over each bed speaker, with their tweeters aimed towards the primary listening position.

@@dusscodeNope.

I've used both and I prefer the Auro3D layout. So who's right? I think it's best to try it for yourself. Others say the other way is better.

@@joentell OK, but you and Channa are making this influencer push to give people bad advice, pushing software that no one needs and that's why everyone is getting irritated. Even when a pro is on you still disagree and I just don't get it.

@@arasandthevolodkas Because I don't agree. I wouldn't say it if I didn't think it was true. What do you think? You think I get paid by Auro3D to disagree? There are a lot of people who try it who agree with me. And do you truly care where another person chooses to place their speakers and which button they press when they watch movies? I would disagree with Anthony publicly and privately. But he doesn't talk to me the way you're coming at me right now. We just disagree and that's it. How big of a deal is this to you? You're saying we're spreading misinformation, but we've made the Spatial Audio Calibration Toolkit that Anthony Grimani bought. So what does that make us? Lucky? You don't think after making 160+ Dolby Atmos test tracks, we have some ideas of how things work? I can and have moved my height speakers to various locations to hear the differences. I've spent the time. Have you? Please explain to me the difference between an influencer and a pro. It sounds to me that you're influenced by pros, but doubt the professionalism of an influencer. Has it ever occured to you that RU-vid is secondary to what I do "professionally" the thing that I really earn money from? I don't think you know.

​@@joentell I'll get more into the pro v youtuber context below - my specific concern is regarding Auro 3d layouts for an Atmos setup is newcomers to this hobby that don't know better. Bottom line Atmos was designed both from a mixer's perspective and from a hardware perspective to have sounds appear as if they are coming from above - not from the side - so you are pushing for a concept that is contrary to the intention of the ecosystem that Dolby and the mixers intended. It would be like if a TV calibrator came into your house to calibrate a TV by setting it to vivid mode because he "thinks it looks better". Or if a THX certified theater from the 90's decided to place speakers on the floor facing up because they think it "sounds better". If you enjoy it for yourself that's one thing but you guys are the biggest youtubers in the home theater industry so it's not like you are just some random guy providing an alternative - that is what's frustrating to me is because the people who really understand how this sound is supposed to be transmitted don't have the same viewership outside of Audioholics maybe. When it come to describing speaker topologies or subwoofer recommendations, I feel like those of you at Daily Hifi are qualified to field and answer those questions. I'm usually in agreement with your recommendations asides from (at times) Youthman who pushes for the big subwoofer = better not matter what concept. All that aside this doesn't require certification. Regarding Pros - what I'm talking about are people who've studied this academically or have some type of certification in the home theater space. I know enough to know that you, me, and Channa did not study acoustics in college or posses that type of certification. We might have mastered certain aspects of this hobby but none of us make a living installing home theaters. I'm very familiar with mixing though, and while someone does not have to get an academic degree to become a good mixer, one does need years of disciplined, years of time behind consoles in studio environments to have a good grasp on how to mix things properly in stereo - not even getting into Atmos yet here. Even professionals who know 2 channel don't fully understand how Atmos works and what it's capabilities are. There are probably only a handful of people on this planet who know how to mix for immersive formats properly. I watched some of Channa's videos in the lead up to the spatial audio Calbiration toolkit and found a lot of his deductions regarding what's going on in the mixing environment to be completely nonsensical. Specifically regarding panning from the front soundstage to heights - yeah - if taken literally mixing will not always provide straightforward results. Mixers (this includes stereo) have to utilize tricks to get things to appear as if they are wider or higher. I'm still learning about it myself but I know enough about mixing to know that Channa is not qualified to provide advice based on his mixing expertise which the toolkit heavily relies upon. I'm not trying to say I'm a pro because I'm not. What I do know is that there were times where we argued about things that were debunked like how dolby upmixer encoding works vs. Auro, and that lead me to believe you and Channa are not experts in that topic. If you guys don't even know how the encoding works then why should I regard the toolkit with anything except skepticism? I don't care if Grimani bought it - that's his business.

@@arasandthevolodkas I know more than you think, let's just say that. Can you tell me the method Dolby Atmos uses? Is it VBAP? Is it LBAP? Do you know the difference? We literally made a calibration disc that allows you to test Atmos object placement. The intention was NOT to tell people where to place their speakers, but rather a tool to accurately play discrete tones based on Dolby's renderer. That's it. What we discovered is that the sounds placed in the renderer don't match where we perceived the sound due to our speakers not being placed at the same angles as what's represented in the panner. We mentioned that to Anthony Grimani who used to work at Dolby, and he was surprised about how the pan-law worked. Is that our fault? Of course not! We are using the tools Dolby provides. If it doesn't correspond to the layout, that's an observation, not an opinion. I'm not a believer in formal education FOR ME. That's not how I like to learn. I dropped out of business school because I was already making over $100k/yr in my 20's. I learned more from my millionaire clients than my professors who made less than me. I dropped out and decided to read 100 business books instead. I didn't stop at 100 either. It was much less expensive and I learned much more. That's how I learn. Based on what you've said, I think you would believe that one of my classmates who didn't drop out and got their degree would be more qualified in business than me, since I have no degree to show for the work I had done. But I did have other paper; money that I had earned because of what I had learned. I never wanted to work for anyone, so I don't care what a hiring manager thinks about me not having that degree. My clients never asked. They wanted a job well done and I delivered that. FYI, I can take a few classes and get my degree, but I like this story better. So the same applies to audio. I get to talk to Dr. Floyd Toole and the guys who he taught. I can call them on the phone. I can talk to Erin who's a legitimate engineer, which I assume might impress someone who puts more weight on those things. I actually studied to become an EE, passed most of the math courses required, prior to switching to business. So for me, the proof is in the pudding. Show me your work. Show what you've done. Don't tell me what you know, show me the final product. I have an app coming out that does something that the smart guys at Audyssey, Dirac, and Trinnov haven't figured out; how to determine the correct target curves. Anthony Grimani signed up to be a beta tester of MY app. How is that possible? Am I guessing? Getting lucky? How? And about not knowing how Atmos and Auro3D work, you're crazy if you believe that. Wilfried, the creator of Auro3D, and I talk. Outside of anyone working at Auro3D, I probably know the most simply because I'm close to it and I've spent the time to understand it. I know someone who understands Atmos inside and out and could probably recreate it from scratch if he wanted to. So, please tell me what you're talking about. It seems to me that you're making a ton of assumptions, and you don't really know as much as you think about us. Name something specific about what Channa has said in his video that you don't agree with and let's discuss it. I do make money doing remote calibrations. In your book that makes me qualified? I really don't understand. Maybe nothing I could say or do would make you think I'm qualified. I don't know. Debunked. Lol. Give me a break. If we got something wrong, then I would admit it and move on. But that word makes me think you're too caught up listening to other people's propaganda instead of using your own brain. Debunk. 🤣 Get outta here with that. And I'm saying that as a friend. We just report what we find. If we're wrong, then tell us how. I'm open. Let's hear it.

Why couldn't they be placed on the ceiling?

@@douglasbarros5793 As I said, Klipsch said it couldn't be done as they sell no ceiling mounting kit and I couldn't find anything on the internet. The units have just a keyhole for a screw to fit into. I wouldn't trust it not to fall down if mounted vertically. Besides, it's my dad's house and I can't just modify it. I ended up putting them on the back wall in the same positions as my fronts, leaving me with a 7.2.4 setup. Just today I bought a Sony X800M2 to replace my original X800 since I'm going to upgrade my TV to one capable of Dolby Vision. I was seriously thinking of getting one this weekend while a sale was going on, but I thought the next Prime Day or Black Friday would be better as far as deep discounts are concerned. I'll probably get a 55" OLED of some brand or another to replace my 50" LG QNED.