Ran 7 tanks of fuel through an 036 Stihl after a rebuild. Red Armor 40 to 1 non ethanol gas with a rich tune.. The exhaust port passed the white glove test and inside of cylinder had a good film of oil. Red Armor is one of the cleanest burning two stroke oils on the market.
Just pulled the plug on my 7310 to have a look. Probably 30 tanks of fuel with red armor and top of piston and plug looked almost new. Crazy good stuff.
Been using 2 stroke mc oils for years, I'm 80 and my saws are old and still working hard, I heat with wood. I've always run in the 36-38 to 1 ratio and always a actual bar oil. Hand sharpen with files. Your advice is solid, be safe out there, y'all!!!!
Thanks for the 2 stroke motorcycle mix oils , I’ve been using them in my stuff and was always curious how they stood up as a comparison with oem saw oils … now I know !
Very nice! I use red armor at 32:1 now with non ethanol fuel and like what I see. I'm sure the race oils will perform very well at 40:1. I'm looking forward to more oil testing from you! Quite informative for referencing to if changing oils in the future.
What ratio do you use? I need to do the top end of my 661c after about 75hrs of hard milling. Used Stihl oil 50:1 and it looks like it’s started rocking
As you said, definitely looks better than all but the best dedicated OPE oils👍🏻 And as Aaron Lynch said, think you'll continue to see great film with the other "bike" oils aswell.
The motul has been great for me, switched from stihl hp ultra. About 2 yrs. of running it in all ported saws with little to no carbon build up and good protection upon inspection. I like how it smells too, good job Richard i really enjoy your videos!
Here again...excellent stuff Richard. I've been through a bunch of Saber in the last decade and its impressive as you know but I just bought a new 462 and I'm on my last quart of Saber looking for a better oil for all my stuff. Thank you for what your doing for us! I'm leaning toward H1R but I need to stay objective...👍
That's where this series is going. For me, no one local carries Saber or Schaeffers. By the time you add some shipping, it gets expensive. I want to test these 2T motorcycle oils so hopefully everyone that has a cycle shop near them can shop local, get a better oil and save a few bucks.
That is the trouble with boutique oils, not readily available everywhere. I can get both Schaeffer‘s ($11 a Quart) and saber($8 for 8 ounces!)locally. When looking at the cost/benefit ratio it does not add up having it shipped. But I know amsoil will say just mix it 100:1😮
Get you a thermo pickup multimeter to check external cyl temp or a temp gun to check muffler cover temps. I use them if i think there is a temp difference in something.
Let’s hit it with the Motul 800 next round Richard. I did like what I saw with the HP2 but like I said before, listen to the bike guys because they have the the 2T figured out at the high end. Chainsaws, only a few shops can claim their spot in that area. Thanks for the great video and I really am impressed at the tear down speed you have. You looked a lot like the drag racers tearing it down between rounds! Nice work my friend, and you did admit it was an easy saw to work on. I like those myself, but they can’t compete all that well with that “fancy” stuff they have today.
Well shit I guess I’m going to have to switch oils again. Thanks for the making these videos! This is great information that most of us wouldn’t ever know without your testing and experience. If it wasn’t for your videos I’d still be running Stihl pond water! Hell I assumed if they double your warranty it must be great oil. Goes to show you can’t trust anything OEMs tell you anymore. I spun a bearing in a car because I was stupid enough to use the 5w20 oil that the manufacturer called for. Turns out that same engine sold in other countries called for 10w30. They were trying to squeeze out a extra half an MPG to meet CAFE numbers. They figured most people wouldn’t run the engine long enough at high speed and load to spin a bearing, and those few that did they would just replace the engine. Guess what they don’t spin bearings on these engines in Mexico and South America where they call for 10w30 oil but in the US this engine is known for spun bearings and thrown rods. Blame the government, god or whoever you want to, but the fact remains don’t trust the manufacturer to tell you what’s best for their products anymore!
I can recommend Bel Ray MC1. Burned through 3 gallons of oil in 5 years ,no clogged spark arrestors or fouled plugs. Chainsaws,trimmers,leaf blowers,mini tiller.
the only oil that used in my race bike has won more champion ship than any oil made 50;1 its one of the only oils that wont seperate in cold climates and was designed for air cooled engines h1r was designed for power valve engines great oil@@dennisyoung4631
Motul 800 next would be nice. Great result from the HP2. Honda recommend it at 32:1 for their MX bikes for racing purposes on an MX track absolutely pinned and on the pipe. As for mixing, try putting the oil in first then adding the fuel. You’ll find it mixes better that way however it still may need further agitation. If you do end up doing the Maxima 927 it would be great to get your thoughts on the smell. Great vid can’t wait for the next one!
I have been running motul about 5 years at 40 to 1 has good film on everything and little to no carbon.The 800 2T is FC rated.I bought a gallon of 710 witch is FD rated and i will try it, just as a little experiment.
Very impressive, I think my younger brother used to run the Honda HP2 oil in his 93 CR250 back when we were still in high school. Now he tends to use what's most economical since he doesn't have much money to toss around. He's told me that he's used one full $10 bottle of the VP Racing oil in 5 gallons of gas in his CR with good results. He's mostly been using a gallon of Star-Brite semi-synthetic TC-W3 that I gave to him some time last year and he said that's been working fine in his bike as well. I originally bought three gallons of the stuff for dirt cheap a few years ago when our local Gander Mountain store went out of business for a second time. I was using it as an upper-cylinder lubricant in my previous pickup I had to help the fuel system last. Now I use Marvels Mystery Oil in my current trucks' fuel as well as the oil. I just never attempted to use the Star-Brite oil in my chainsaw BECAUSE of the old myth about using marine pre-mix oil in a saw and I didn't have another $400 at the time to replace the saw if it got fried. So it was better to be safe than sorry. I'm still patiently awaiting your thoughts on AMSOIL Interceptor. :)
@@richardflagg3084 Don't worry yourself, I know you're a busy guy. The only thing I can do is be patient. Which sadly a lot of people no longer have these days. :)
Would be interesting to see how Klotz snowmobile techniplate compares to some of these oils. 100% synthetic premix/injector oil that is JASO FD rated and smells fantastic
Always used belrey or hp2 in my dirt bike. After 25 years decided to replace the piston . It didnt need it old piston looked perfect. I guess i should run my motorcycle fuel in my saws as well.
Thx for testing the bike oils! Not sure if any of them are synthetic but if not can you test 1of them too. I use maxima super m which is a synthetic blend in all my 2strokes thx great content!!
goodnight Richard thank you for this oil test, if you can do motul 800, I mean that good of this motorcycle oil used for cutting machines here in France I hope my English French translation is good ,cause undo the translator put a word wrong great job thanks a thousand times
Great result, at the end of all this test are you gonna give us you're consideration and comparision with Saber? Still have 2l of Saber but if there's something better i'll run it. Best regards Giovanni
Thanks for the informative videos.I have learned alot,but I have to ask for your input on Lucas semisynthetic (sterns)from what I understand.do you have any experience with the oil?got a great deal on four gallons,but not worth my saws from what I’ve learned.it is FD rated, is that enough in your opinion? I did see your video on ratings it’s how I learned about it.thank for all you work and time.
Richard, i saw bucking runs castrol go! Have u tested that one? I just picked up hp2 last week after watching this video but noticed advanced autos carry go! And its very cheap. Buckin thinks it may be stihl orange bottle if i recall…? Keep up the great work!
Hello, Thanks for another good test. I was wondering if you would consider trying the klotz 50:1 techniplate which is what they recommend for outdoor power equipment? I have been running it for a couple years at 40:1 and iam curious how it stacks up.
Great test richard, i use saber 40:1 with 95 e10 and wynn's e10 protector. Can only get e10 fuel. Will i have trouble with my equipment especially in off season 2 to 3 months not in use. Tks
I'd drain them and run them dry (at idle) for storage when using E10. Mix a batch of fresh fuel in the spring time. Most info about fuel storage varies from what I've researched. 30 Days for ethanol fuels and 90 days for E-free. There are some variables, but condensation is a big factor in E10 fuel leading to phase separation which is very corrosive. A full gas can will "age" slower as there is less air. Humidity and temp swings will cause more condensation in the can, especially if it is vented like most of the new style cans. I'm not a huge fan of stabilizers. More a fan of fresh fuel and a little pre-planning.
👍 Awesome stuff! You mentioned it seemed like it was running cooler. Perhaps a cyclider cooling fin and exhaust temp check is in order. Have you thought about using a temperature gun to observe the heat being produced during these tests? At the same time to an extent a typical 4 cycle engine that is capable of producing more power is also capable of producing more heat. Does this hold true on an air cooled 2 cycle engine? Also, what is the optimum temperature range for producing peak power in one of these air cooled two cycle engines?
@@richardflagg3084 Will do. Thank you. and I think your video teardowns have convinced me to move to 40:1. I was already using Red Armor, but maybe I'll try Saber. Maybe
The Opti2 packets are 1.8oz. I'm not a fan of 70:1 for anything. Just 'cause you can doesn't mean you should. I've seen long term results with Saber at 80:1 at work and never had a lean seizure,. I did see piston skirt wear over time in commercial use, for what it's worth. We have gone to 50:1 Saber and it does significantly better, yet still burns very clean.
Absolutely, I'd love to see a test with Dominator as well. I'm really enjoying these oil tests. For the price of equipment nowa days I want the best protection for my machines.
I did one about a year ago at 50:1. Use the search function on my home page and type in dominator. It comes up on top. Maybe I'll do another at 40:1....
The dual rated oils would be interesting to test to debunk a popular myth no one should ever run a marine oil type TC-W3 rated oil in any air cooled small engine. That myth grew from reports made by a very few people who had a problem. But a lot more people have not been able to confirm the issue. You have run Shaeffer's which is one example of a dual rated oil, whatever may be the certifications. Maxima Premium 2 and Klotz KL-215 are also dual rated. And there are several other oils dual rated, dual certified, or just labeled suited for any use and meeting or exceeding *all* industry specifications, definitely including air cooled small engines. Quicksilver and Pennzoil have full synthetic 2T oils that are in that class. Anyway it seems obvious it's been a wrong idea nobody should run a marine rated oil in an air cooled engine. This is a myth that needs to be debunked. Just because an oil is popular for specific use like scooter oil, or a jet ski oil, or a snowmobile oil, or a marine oil does not disqualify its use in all other 2T uses including air cooled small engines.
You're right. I've ran Schaffer's 7000 semi synthetic TC-W3 for years and it does a great job. On Schaeffer's website they specifically say it's for water cooled engines ONLY. No JASO applications etc...... It's probably just the lawyers talking. It's a damn fine oil in air cooled engines too.
I ran hp2 in bikes for years, until my local dealer closed. Great oil, power valve always came out wet with little carbon or coking. I.then ended up with some big v6 mercs that I use with Quicksilver semi synthetic, currently what I use in 5 professional grade Stihls, and 2 high strung mx bikes, with no problems so far.
@@richardflagg3084 Looking at data sheets there is commonly added a solvent to thin the 2T oil for premixing to make mixing easier. So the viscosity out of the bottle could vary. Also for injectors there is a cold temperature issue. Cold oil thickens so there is a viscosity additive used to keep the injection ratios good at low temperature. Special additives for special uses could be the only difference for several oils from the same manufacturer, while the lubricant formula and base oils are exactly the same. Racing oils is where emphasis is greatest on lubrication and emissions would not be a priority. The racing engines would be rebuilt frequently so racers don't care if the exhaust meets EPA standards or is California approved.
@@artpatronforeverAll four of these are "premix" oils and not suggested for oil injected systems. That makes sense. I remember them telling us we had to save the trees so no more paper bags at the grocery store. Also plastics bags and packaging were going to save the planet. Lol!
@@richardflagg3084 Fuel stabilizer added to pre-mix oils for small engines is an additive that is also a thinner for lubricants. So all the fuel stabilizer included oils are going to be thinner compared to the oils that don't have an included fuel stabilizer. Before trusting any authority figure people should apply the good sense test to that situation. If they do that then a lot of authority figures will be out of work fast, but they can probably find a job in California where experts are needed to teach people how magical thinking works.
I am running a Husky 572 at 50:1 oil mix. I will be switching oils immediately, but should I change my mix ratio to 40:1 or use the Honda HP2 at the manufacturers suggested 50:1?
Nearby place has dedicated-pump 92 Octane ethanol-free fuel, and in a pump next to it, 110 octane race gas (with tetraethyl lead). Would a 2 parts 92 and 1 part 110 work “well” in a seldom-used two-stroke engine? (25-32 to 1 mix with Maxima K2 or similar.)
I'd say just the 92 Ethanol free should be fine, I've used VP 101 up to (10% ethanol) & Red Armor at a 25:1 ratio... The gas sat in the trimmer for 5 months without starting. It started, idled & WOT for trimming.
@@twocyclesmoke thanks. Was wondering enough about the storage issue to consider the (costly) canned fuel. Several months sounds safe enough. Normally, it’s best to run the engine and tank dry if you’re going to put the engine up for a while. True?
@@dennisyoung4631 Running it dry is generally best, the ethanol is the issue with most pump gas. 100+ Octane race gas (10% ethanol) is refined differently & has a longer shelf life.
@@dennisyoung4631 Non ethanol pump gas should last longer with VP, Saber or Red Armor gas. Amsoil quickshot is a good gas stabilizer. The canned overpriced stuff isn't worth it. I wouldn't hesitate leaving ethanol free gas from a designated pump for over 6 months with a high quality oil in the OPE gas tank.
Great information! IIRC when Redbull661 did tests back in the day with various grades of gasoline the best performing and coolest running was 89 octane ethanol free. I think he stated that it could have been the freshest fuel he tested as you really don‘t know how long the fuel has been sitting at the filling station before buying it.
Did you say that you ran a whole tank through it with that oil? Do you always run it without the air filter cover? I was hoping you’d do about 2 gallons through it then look at the bottom end.
I've got videos of long term oil reviews from my commercial customers saws if that's what you'd like to see. Yes, one tank. I'm looking for oil film in the crankcase and upper cylinder. This style of test will give a snapshot look of how the oil is performing. One tank will also show some carbon in the form of a wash pattern or a thin layer of carbon on the piston crown with a dirtier oil. Running multiple tanks of fuel won't change the amount of lubrication in the case. Maxflow calls the filter cover a "rain cover" and is not necessary for normal operation. This style of filter is an oiled foam filter and does a great job keeping fines out of the engine.
@@richardflagg3084 don’t get me wrong….I appreciate your experiment. I just don’t think that one tank (1/4 gallon or so) is enough to really judge an oil’s quality because the crank could have been too dry from the previous premix or overly lubed from the previous oil leaving excess residual oil. If I were doing this with a motorcycle I’d want at least 5 gallons through it before I made any long term decisions. Of course, if your wood is already cut for the years it’s going to be a hard sell to spend several hours on each premix, especially if you’re already busy.
I’d like to see the results from 1 solid hour continuous running between 75% and short duration (5-10 minute) bursts of 100% WOT. This is a hard test to set up obviously with a saw, trimmer, ect. that needs refueling. I think maybe if a test could be done with more or less stable RPMs it would paint a better overall picture of the “burn” with various oils. Of course real world running with most 2-cycle equipment (saws, trimmers, blowers and bikes) have the operator womping on and off the throttle constantly. A good set up for testing may be a 2-cycle water pump that normally runs fast, hot and even.
@@venturini09sorry, can't remember where I read it but years ago I read an article where they took several 2t engines, added something to the oil a computer could pick up on and as an average, it took 15 minutes to completely "replenish" the oil in the crankcase.
any chance of adding redline 2-stroke oil to the test? i run it at 40/1 in chainsaws and 100/1 in a race mazda rotary rx-7. also are the gas companies cheating??? i have to make my own ethanol free fuel. start with pump 93 octane listed as less than 10% ethanol. put a measured gallon in a can, add 13 ounces of distilled water to match the max ethanol, mix well and let sit to separate. drain off the water/ethanol mix and end up with 0.80 gallon of non-ethanol fuel???? wtf that's 20%.
That‘s what one of the saw shops here told me, they were finding more like 20% even though the pump stated 10%. It‘s keeping them in business with all the problems it creates though! Redline falls into the boutique category, not readily available.☹️
@@JoshNoss If the dispenser of the E-free has it‘s own dedicated nozzle you should be good. Here it was 91 octane advertised with up to 10% ethanol. My guess is that they simply added more ethanol to 87 octane to get it up to 91.
@@kbittorf335 yeah it's 90oct efree dedicated pump at a Rutter's but you also gotta trust that the truck driver filled into correct tank with correct fuel too, they have pumps for e15 and e85 too as well as e10 so who's to say one day that a new guy might not put e15 into the efree or so on.. could even be what happened to you that time
Google dragonfly75/2 stroke oil for a list. Hp2 is up there. I settled on k2 when I started modding chainsaws. Above that are castor oils. They have a lot of ash(which is protection at the extremes), don't mix well with ethanol gas, and don't have the stabilizers for storage. Hp2 and k2 still burn clean and perform well at elevated performance levels. They will put oil out the exhaust if not running loaded hard as they are high flash point.
I haven't tried Interceptor. Dominator is OK, but it doesn't burn as clean in a chainsaw as others. Great oil, but Saber is one of the best small engine oils I've tested (at 40 or 50:1) not the 80 or 100 recommended. It's a damn fine oil in every way. H1R and HP2 really opened my eyes. I'm running HP2 now FWIW.
@@richardflagg3084 thanks 😊. I've been using Interceptor for Quite a while and have not had Any problems with my saws I have owned Honda motorcycles And have found their 4 cycle Oils to be exceptional. Always Looking to do better for my Equipment. Thanks
HP2 is for liquid cooled 2 stroke engines. Not approved for air cooled engines. Look for the “tc” designation on the label. Honda GN2 is approved for air cooled hand held equipment and older motorcycles or snowmobiles.
