Great vid. I can back this up that going from one 6" to 8" port for spl is a gain of about .5db with an high motor force sub. Give it our test was like 10 years ago so nice to see not much has changed.
Videos like this I usually watch at least twice because they're so long and full detail. I paused at 15:17 and looked up and had to LOL. Great videos guys! We appreciate the gaggle of information.
The longer port was right up against the back of the car. That will definitely affect the tuning of the port. Next time I would take the subs and place them on a workbench.
Perfect timing for this. I'm designing a simple ported box for two Savard 8" subs. Port choices are standard round tube, vs long rectangular port with obviously shorter length requirement for same port volume.
Great video, real live testing, valuable info, always knew that port size are not only calculated by box dimensions but also by sub parameters and power to the sub.
My only concern is the difference between the 6" and 8" ports is 3.14" (ironically). Ideally I would have liked to have seen a 3" or 4" compared to the 6" or 8" at half the value. But! Thank you for you videos. Great as always. PS I built a tline for the defective Rockville k9 and it's shutting down 4*12's like nothing...
Great vid, appreciate all the efforts... for science! Port size will change the Q as well. 14853 will pull 1,061 amps from vehicle battery, that's not including losses in wires and amp; 100% efficiency. Holy Connolly, will need Tesla battery system.
I've got 8 banks of XS Power caps emfcaraudio.com/collections/super-capacitors-1/products/xs-power-sb500-supercell-bank and voltage drop isn't bad, around 1 volt without the car running I think it is.
Cheers, lots of useful information. I'd say the reason why the ermagerd peaked at 60 is because the less efficient the sub the more the port impacts the output, but also if it were in an ideal volume box it would be much more efficient and should keep up. Maybe another video could be ported v 4th order by sealing off the front of the driver with another octagon.
The efficiency doesn't effect the peak frequency, there are other factors. Also remember with the 6" port it peaked 63 and 8" port it peaked 60. I do think it may have changed as a result of how large the motor is and it's relationship to the port location. The larger area is more opened to the motor directly, which takes up a ton of width in that enclosure.
I was hoping to see some undersized ports. Some people claim that port compression can limit your output, but I haven't seen any real world tests. Something you could look into?
Port compression absolutely limits your output. To demonstrate I'd have to build something specifically for that. Smaller port area needs less length, so I couldn't put a 4" port in this enclosure because it wouldn't be long enough to do anything, literally, tuning couldn't be achieved.
I love any and all info you can give about ports I understand the port is based off the box size and port size but what happens when you add subs as in multiple subs per box does that mean the size of the port should change I mean most people run at least 2 subs and sub specs are usually for a single sub
If you're adding subs you're also adding volume so you should be adding port area. If you're adding subs and not adding volume you're probably not going to have a good result unless the box was way too big to start with.
Your port area when building just a ported box as a rule of thumb should be around 1/4 of the total cone area. It depends on your subs, but thats a generalized size. Any smaller and youll end up choking your output, reducing efficiency, and introducing port noise. Any larger, and youll end up possibly over extending your subs by not creating the back preasure it needs, and muddying your sound. The only time where you would break away from that generalized size is when youre doing a different style box (bandpass, t-line).
@@ngaudio9143 That works for conventional subs, but high Xmax like the Ermagerd v2 needs more and high motor force like the YOLO also tend to benefit from more. The higher you tune the more port area you need as well, for any sub.
How might I use these results if were using 4 ports? I have 4 3" ports which I'm seriously considering switching to 4 6" ports because I'm undersized on port area for my single Skar DNR 5K 15" which requires like twice the port area than what I have if I remember correctly.
Port area is port area, kinda. Obviously if you're going to a larger port area from a smaller you'll have a similar result to this. Way too small of port area to way bigger will likely yield a bigger difference. But, single port vs multiple ports can also yield differences.
Someone please clarify this. When you say 5000 watts or 10000 watts is that the multiplication product of voltage and current (instantaneous values)? In that case what are the typical voltage and current values in the speaker coil? For example like 50 volts and 100 amperes to make 5KW?
First honda I was ever in was a Yellow CRX. Dude had 2 15" IDQ Image Dynamics slot ported on a. Chrome Zapco long as the interior was wide. Pretty wild for the 90s
Ive always wanted a true Y49 crx just to see if they're really cursed. I had a red 90' si with 2 JL W1v24s in a sealed box with a JL 500.1 amp and I've never heard a cleaner system to this day. I ended up selling the car with the system and regret it every day. Pretty sure the guy bought it just for the subs lol
If you google search "Salvatti et. al." top link should be to PDF of white papers with extensive research and testing into the topic of ports. Lots of good info in it, but the big takeaway is that for practical purposes there is no such thing as "too much" port area. That said, depending on the box and where all the sound sources set in your vehicle you may very well get poor results out of a port that is very big but is crowded too close to something or because it's so big something else is effected negatively. At the end of the day, if you're playing music if it's big enough to avoid turbulence and has enough volume so it won't unload you're fine, and if you're chasing numbers you'll have to test absolutely everything and the meter will tell you what you need to know.
Your statement is a bit contradictory. You say there is no such thing as too much port area, then say "if" this and that. You CAN have too much port area, where the port becomes ineffective as a port and it's just a "leak". It's the point where the box is no longer acting as a box. It's like holding it in your hand hand and opening the garage door and saying it's a ported box.
@@EMFAudio Read the Salvatti white papers. I'm sure you've seen walls with 3x as much port area as cone area that perform well built by guys who have done extensive testing. The "for practical purposes" caveat being that obviously you can't put a 15" diameter round port on the box in your video because it won't fit on any side of the box and probably wont' fit in a Rex and honestly I was surprised the 8" one even worked as well as it did for you considering how it was crowded into the back wall of the vehcle (I've had that both gain big and also fail). The point being, if you can fit more port area while maintaining the fundamentals of proper port design/placement (being far enough away from everything else or not being an unusual shape like 1" by 1000" for example) it will gain efficiency up to the point where we just can't fit more port on the box. And in fact the garage door will act as a port now whether it happens to tune anywhere useful depends on the volume of the room, area of the door, and depth of the column of air that will resonate, but it's the same principal as a Tahoe with a 1 cube box in the back gaining when you open a door or window. Also we will hit diminishing returns at some point but for anything we can fit in a car you're going to gain efficiency if you can add more port area all other things being equal.
I had a 6" port tuned to 32 with 2 18s box volume was over 12ft3, it sounded great, but when I used 3 18s and had a rectangular port I believe it was 8"/3"/2" that didn't sound to good, now I have 2 10s in a band pass 1:2 , ported was 2.3 ft3 with 2 3"w/8"L ports and switched it to 1 port 3"w/4"L both around 36hz and they both sounded like crap, I'm going to go prefab until I make a regular ported box, thing I learned from this is I can't go to small on the ports with 3+k watts, I changed from 3k to 5k it made it worse
SUGGESTION 4 A VIDEO: How to add a new baffle onto an existing box without dismantling anything.. WHY?: For those.. ..who have stripped all of their subs screw holes, ..who need more box flexing support, ..needing deeper baffles for longer sub mounting screws, ..switching from square subs to round subs or vice versa, ..wanting to change the appearance of the front of their box/enclosure, ..and so on. Personally I NEED to do this because T-Nuts chewed up my MDF and so I'd like to add either a 1" wood baffle or a 1/2" black piece of PVC/ABS and install Threaded Inserts into the new baffle while sandwhiching the threaded inserts in between the old and new baffles. If interested, you could also teach us how to effectively attach the new baffle to the old baffle while painting or wrapping it to match your vehicle's interior or something interesting/helpful like that.
I like most, just make another baffle and put it on top of the other. In some cases you have to cut out the old one which I do with a router. I always just bond them with wood glue and screw them down.
I have a question.... Why hasn't anyone used a linear actuator adjustable port that would extend/retract based on tuning and/or spl on the fly... so it would continually be adjusting the port length to maximize performance???
@@EMFAudio what would you recommend for sub and port placement? My sub sits, on top of the box and port is on the side, obviously there is a few positions I found the having the port facing into the cabin was loudest, sun is a blaupunkt 18" but with a custom voice coil
It's possible but I don't believe that is the case here because the playing frequency was the same in most cases. On the flip side to that, moving the enclosure would change more things than just getting the port position the same. There is no case where everything could be matched 100% dimensionally speaking.
We did a box for 4 15 inch subs with 300 squarte inches of port (equivalent to 6 8 inch ports) and we did 153.7db at 41hz in a stock ford explorer, kinda overkill, but it worked.
But did you try different port areas? I personally have tried different port areas and seen more gain than in this video before, but it was in a more optimal volume for the subs being used. I think this does show that you don't necessarily need all the port area for some applications to get an inaudible difference in result.
We didn't tryed different ports, but we will reduce the area of the existing port to see what happens. Here is a video of the same box in obs tahoe ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-R6zlLR8L7SA.html
Its nice to learn new things. may also explain when i cut my box for 3 12s and ported it for 2.lol ended badly. my setups not the way i like running 2 shitty sony 12s which were red just pained the black and a nvx vcw. when running all 3 subs i seem to get phasing issues and gets annoying im trying to get a ported box for my nvx vcw 15 that way I don't have any problems like this.
This video was awesome, but 1 major thing seemed off. Box was tuned too high, right? If tuning was around the musical (eg. 33) I reckon there would have been dramatic differences in the output, because what we want to see are the ports bottlenecking it? *Edit: I got my answer after noting down every reading in the video. There is a gain across the entire spectrum. Low Baller gained the least, not worth having the huge port, almost certainly because it was close to the optimal box size for it already. Thank you.*
The end of the video summarized, the volume wasn't ideal for any of them. The Ermagerd kept gaining the more power was applied where the others gained the same nearly across the board.
Were the ports tuned to the same freq? When changing area you must consider the volume, more volume = more air to move. It's not as simple as just saying more area. It's more accurate to watch the area:volume ratio. This is knowledge from the 70's :) Also, you can model vent mach and get an idea on unloading.
I'm curious if the 8" port was hampered at all being that close to the rear wall. I've always worked under the rule of "the mouth of a port must be at least its width away from any surface".
I'd have to see if I've taken the specs off that one, or have it handy. They're built per purpose so the specs vary. You can't look solely at the BL number. As impedance changes, BL will change, but that doesn't mean it's weaker or stronger. For that reason you use motor force factor which is (BL^2/Re). That levels the field for strength taking into account impedance.
That was a amazing video those boxes are so rich i have a question do u still make the EMF AUDIO ERMAGERD SORRY IF INCORRECT SPELLING THATS A COOL ASS NAME AND THAT IS 1 OF THE BADDEST SUBWOOFER'S IV EVER SEEN WELL ABOUT THE QUESTION DO U STILL MAKE THOSE PLEASE SAY U DO (🦍✌🏽💪🏽🔈✌🏽💪🏽🔉✌🏽💪🏽🔊🦍)
I have very well understood what you are comparing... but the results ... am lost, am just seeing figures. Was expecting a conclusion which port had a deeper or punchier bass for which power inputs ...
@@ThomasShelby-uq8cz basically the more poor area you use the more you get a boost around tuning but the less bandwidth you'll have and for SQ a little less poor area just to make sure you flare
Lately I’ve been seeing these guys running a single 12”or 15” with 8”-10” port and some even bigger and claiming they are tuned to 32 HZ, and I’m thinking there is no way they could be tuned to that frequency with a box that looks to be around 2-3 cubes and a 10” diameter port.
A common mistake I see people making are confusing port displacement with port area when calculating. They just manipulate the area to have a workable length and end up with a very wrong tuning.
@@EMFAudio close I was going crazy cuz I had a 94 hatch and that back seat looked like it and the side mirror and the cowl. Nice u saved one from being improperly upgraded!
Hi thanks for sharing. Question I have a 15" audio pulse revo subwoofer. I think the aero port should be a 6inch. I have 2 ....4inch precision ports and would like to use them but afraid for port noise. Do I use the dual 4inch or single 6inch. Subwoofer if 1500w. Thanks again
They can be made using pipe, a mold, and heat, but I didn't make them. The 8" is Big Ass Ports and the 6" is Precision Port with a different middle section. That box is ~1.6 cu. ft after displacements, depending on the sub.
@@EMFAudio thanks for all the information sain hello here from Puerto Rico one of my friend from P.R recently went to the shop and bought two of your EMF 15 neo. Over there in south Carolina.
I personally have seen larger gains than displayed in this video, there are a lot of factors happening in different applications, but 6 dB is definitely not just from a bigger port unless we're talking extreme changes.
I thought about doing that but in this case there are issues with the weight of the sub making the box tip over. Your question does spur an idea for another video though so I may do that in the semi-near future.
@@EMFAudio sounds good i tested this with a 6.347cuft box mathematically tuned to 34hz using 4x 6in round pvc ports.. with a single fi sp4+ 18 i found 3db at 36.8hz normal install and 33.1hz inverted still thinking about it also inverted was 0.2db higher on avg over 2mins at 1kw fixed rms used noise pink to test clipped everything below 20hz and above 120hz so really just pink bass. Measured response with my minidsp mic at 5ft
Do u still have the Ermergerd the 1s with the ferrite Magnets i love those and im not 💯percent sure but i saw the price on them i think it was the 12" or maybe a 15" for $999 but i could be wrong i kno this video is a little old but if someone anyone can get back at me to let me kno i would really appreciate it and thank u i love all ur videos specially when u SCHOOL people that really think they kno what they are talking about and i kno i don't only speak for myself but i really learn alot from watching ur videos [☣✌💪🔈✌💪🔉✌💪🔊☣]
I've got a 42"x22"x24" box in my SUV with two Skar SDR 18s in it, and my port area is very small, just a 2" wide, 5" deep, 22" tall port along the back wall facing the back of my SUV. I've triple checked the software and my tuning is good at 32, and I don't hear port noise. But people say I'd get better performance if I made the port area bigger. What do you think? If it would help, how much would it help?
Hi I really like that you and doing. ? I have a 2000w amp with a 1500 speaker. It's mid to cheep dot that alone with a pioneer head unit a 1500w amp 10" sub. 600w 6x9 in back 450w 6.5 with a 300 w tested on the dash. In a Dakota it sounds killer but No bass all you hear is the pioneers the sub is not loud w it is seeled I'm thinking about putting 2 2" x 6" in the boxpvc
Sir, Thank very much you for doing a perfect presentation, the energy, time, and resources: we really do appreciate it. However, am unfortunately lost despite watching the video three times. Kindly, what is the conclusion? Which port has the deeper low base? The wider or narrow one? Pardon and thank you for the trouble Sir. Specifically, I have a 12-inch sub with 600 watts RMS (Pioneer TS W3003D4) and Mono-block amp with 1200 watts (Pioneer GM D9701). Cabinet dimensions are (17.5 x 14.8 x 27) inches. Do I need one or two ports? Or one wide? or two narrow?
"Low bass" is from tuning, box volume, and the sub, not the port dimension. There are port guidelines that generally perform better, but none reflect its ability to play low or not.
I haven't done a video like that, I thought about it, but the proper way to do that would require a ton of setup and building something specifically for that.
@@EMFAudio Yea I hear ya. I just know your no bs way of doing videos and actual real info would be great.I do both style box's and don't notice any difference. Keep up the good work!
I have just ran into this issue I went from. Building a suburban to a coupe never had issues with room or port length what would u say would be best bang for the buck I have about three cubes in total and about ten inches of height overall BTW wonderful video
so kinda off topic, but if the emagerd was put in a more efficient box, and consequently had a higher rise say, 3 ohms with less power would it in theroy be louder, or is there a point where efficiency becomes to "good" or rises too high to see a higher SPL number?
Efficiency is always louder power for power but what you're saying is what the YOLO did, really. It went up to 8 ohms and I ran out of power. Had I been able to make more power it would have been louder. It's possible a little less efficiency would have gained more from power. Generally speaking in the SPL world people just wire subs lower in that case.
@@Jervin-Music yeah I'm in the same boat and my luck is shitty too. So it's highly unlikely I'd ever win 1 or the money to get 1 lol. Although I suppose if we were to put aside a little money here and there... maybeee eventually we could raise enough money. Maybe...
I had one and I paid only $1250 for it! Now he wants over $3,000 for one. They aren't all that. I switched to Fi and they are monsters(Sp4 plus series) I promised you, that you can't go wrong!
@@johnathanhunter7899 right on I'm sure there are a few subs out there that can bang just as impressively. I gotta say though, none have ever caught my attention like the ermergerd v2 or even the v1. I mean overall of course but I'm impressed by the look alone too.
They're priced over $3,000 so people will stop asking about them. We don't have any to sell and I got tired of telling people we don't have an ETA several times a day.
Ive watched this a couple times now. This time I'm checking to see if you describe how you measure port length. I always though you measure in the middle/center of the port. Is this correct? I'm currently tuning a box and have likely just confused myself overthinking it to death. He'll who knows if you even habe the time to respond to a question on a video posted so long ago. None the less thankyou EMF
Bro why USA does not have people like you or audio engineers giving car audio courses like other countries do? Are they less selfish, do they have more need "$" or what do you personally think it is? Because I am pretty sure USA has knowledge of it.
People would rather pay nothing to "learn" from somebody without a clue on RU-vid that has a lot of subscribers because they post videos of hairtricks. You can't teach those who aren't willing to learn.
@@EMFAudio Well yes I agree with that, but I think it is better if we say people will rather pay somebody to build their setups. Also people from other countries want to learn so they can make their own setups plus make some money from building others. However I wonder why people like Wayne Harris or other audio engineers dont charge to share their knowledge😒
@@EMFAudio Few words is not worthy! Thank you for your videos and input. I will like to have more time to watch all of them, but I know they have to be long to explain all you do.
Sean, you forgot to mention about vehicle peak frequency and how that comes into play. You kept running 60 and 63. Y not run or try 58 hz ? I feel you need a part 2 about vehicle frequency, having same setup in two different vehicles with same box/amp/subs they will act differently and sound different and perform different
I mentioned in the video I was playing the peak frequency, I think what you're describing would be best suited as the same sub in the same box in different vehicles, and I can do that.
I noticed your Port is facing towards the trunk which is normal as far as i know, in your experience does it matter if it's facing forward, back, side or even up?
The port and sub placement in the box as well as where they aim can make a huge difference. I mentioned those things in another video about SPL tips I believe.
That would literally take several hundreds of hours to do. The "perfect" box for a sub takes hundreds of hours of work and a lot of material, times 3. I may revisit this with different circumstances, like a more appropriate box for all of them.
@@elsey1976 That is definitely not a Mystery Machine. In the video I also said I'd decide what I did in it when it got 2,000 likes, which it's nowhere near. So until it gets there, I'm not doing anything.
The tricky part there is when you don't have impedance rise, you aren't efficient. Efficiency is louder than power, the more efficient you are the higher the impedance rise you have. You should be more worried about the end result than the clamped power.
In your future videos could you just make sure your voice is louder than the music you are playing? The music was too loud I had to send down the volume everytime the music would play and increase the volume to hear you speaking after. Good info btw :>
So I'm not soaking much of this in ... I'm not gonna say I'm not into spl cus that would be a lie. I am into loud accurate music...I like to listen to my music and have it dynamically effect me. That said, in my case how could I use this to allow a flat curve yet gain the efficiency of the port?
Some of the same things apply here. If you want less of a peak, use a smaller port. When you make it too small it will be noisy an inefficient so there are judgement calls to be made there. Example, the lower the tune the lower the port area needed anyway, so maybe you'd be going between a 3" and 4" port where a 3" port would give you a flatter response but still have efficiency where doing a 2" port would lose efficiency.
I'm in Greer close to you I'd like to pick up 2 lowballer 15's for a Scion Tc possible wall what's the best way of going about acquiring the subs? Possibly a enclosure, or some advice for one? I would be able to pick the subs up if that's cool with you.
@@EMFAudio It's going to be a week or two before I'll be needing them maybe three. What would it cost to re-cone a 18in Kove armageddon and do you make the re-cone kits? I heard PSI makes a kit that fits the 18in armageddon subs, but definitely getting the lowballers I heard 2 15in in a civic that was ridiculous! Love your videos btw,good stuff! I'm currently learning amplifier repair and have successfully repaired 10-15 approximately and trying to get some Brazilian amps to diagnose and repair if you know anyone who has one in th he boneyard that's smoked I'll pay for broken amplifiers. Just lmk when you get those in and I'll come pick em up thanks!
If you add port area and leave the same length, you're changing tuning. If you're adding port displacement you're also reducing box volume, which changes tuning.
