How One Cheater Changed Super Mario Maker History 

merlinstarhugs

How come did they beat other cheated level in order to reach the final one?

Too bad I can't use that phone on Verizon.

@@OmgWtfTsuji Then use a different internet provider.

@@detective2221 They're not my internet provider.

Facts!

Yeah this was a strange one, maybe I'm expecting too much based on some his more serious videos but there's a lot of information that he didn't bring up/talk about which kinda turn the story into a weak hit piece, the creator cheated but was waiting to be caught, he dropped out of the scene completely and I can't say that any of this was malicious and as you said; beating a TAS only level and only briefly mentioning it is completely criminal. The writings/feeling on this one is kinda all of the place.

@@blank-dj1rc Imo the intention of the video was to talk about the cheater otherwise the tile would've been "The Mario Maker Player who achieved the impossible". So talking in deep about the heroes of this story would be off-topic

glossing over it - 12 seconds. providing a full uninterrupted showcase that glorifies the run in full giving it complete justice - 13 seconds I think Karl did enough here 🙂

@@cattycats4 I highly disagree. We had a 15 minute video and a footnote mention that this "impossible TAS only level" was actually beaten by a real person, that's the more interesting story. I'm no writer but I feel that even I could re-arrange everything in this story quite easily to tell a much better one, about how one person did the impossible.

Dude, why would he? His other cheated stage got beaten way earlier, that would have told him that there was a chance Trimming could be beaten as well. Oh, and what ended up happening after his confession? Trimming got beaten anyways. So he was right in believing that it could be beaten.

​@@toumabyakuyaNot sure if you're trying to justify Ahoyo's actions here.

@@JayDeeIsMyName Somewhat, yes. Unlike you, I do not like to think that everybody had malicious intentions with their actions. I preffer to believe that everybody is innocent till proven guilty.

Yeah, I don't understand why Karl was saying the achievement of Team 0% was taken away from them. From what Karl was saying the whole community was helping with it, so why didn't the level being beaten legitimately count? It was beaten before the servers were shut down.... the entire goal of Team 0%. My takeaway from this video is Team 0% achieved their goal against all odds, and some guy cheated, but it is not particularly relevant since the level was beaten before the servers were shut down anyways. Congratz to Team 0%!!!

@@toumabyakuya Please watch 13:28 and beyond again.

That should have been the main point of the video tbh

Because the video wasn’t about beating it; the video was about the consequences of cheating, hence why the title is “How one CHEATER changed Super Mario Maker.”

Same. I felt that’s the biggest deal of the whole thing. Karl could’ve put more emphasis on it.

the title of the video literally lists the topic of the video. If the title of the video had something to do with what your saying it would of been titled as such. It's not weird at all actually because it wasn't the main point of the video.

It sucks, it feels like the cheating was what most people heard about, I didn't even know they beat the level legitimately untill recently

His mic was off when he beat it, but based on his reaction after he remembered to turn the mic on, he was pretty damn stoked. xD Plus he got a nice payday for it. There was at least $2,000 in bounties active for the level. Probably more, but I wasn't tracking who all rescinded their bounties when the TAS upload was revealed.

i would brag about that endlessly, especially a very hard level.

It just goes to show how hard TTH was, it took Sanyx about 140 hours to beat it, and it is the third hardest level he has ever beaten in SMM (including SMM2). Sanyx is a machine, his 80x triple shelljump consistency level is one of those that people fear will stop us from clearing all of SMM2 - once those servers shut down one day.

How can we be sure that he didn't cheat though. It's basically an impossible level.

@@faithgrins His mic was off? Definitely sounds cheated to me.

It’s definitely VERY cool but it’s a separate event from 0%. The level would have been disregarded from the beginning, as it should have, as only legit levels are part of 0%.

⁠@@rphntw1n Well the level was cheated insofar as it required (at the time) a computer providing the exact inputs to clear it but it was completable. It’s not the same as someone creating level that cannot physically be beaten no matter what is done. As this video even highlights, that TTH was beaten legitimately in an incredibly impressive feat in and of itself. I don’t even know that if it was revealed beforehand that it should have been excluded unless it could also be demonstrated that it wasn’t physically possible to achieve legitimately. Where there is a moral failing is on the author not revealing it sooner. That would have given the community the ability to discuss and decide whether to include it well in advance and would not have generated the media around it. If the author did leave the community before the launch and forgot about it until seeing articles, not doing so would be far more understandable even if we still must ultimately say that he should have done it much sooner regardless.

@@DeansDiscourse They did leave the community and started talking about it only in the last stretch when it got attention. It isn't even a big deal that it was done with a TAS as it was still beatable and other KNOWN TAS levels were still included. The only reason it's an issue is because arbitrary decisions and people concluding "Last level = TAS = IMPOSSIBLE".

The entire point is that the last dance should've been the celebrated level because it was legitimately uploaded by it's creator - this was a contest for non-cheated levels Nobody knew to celebrate at the time because it wasn't considered the last level - that moment can never be recovered. It's still a cool story for trimming the herbs yes, but objectively it took away from team 0's achievement and the last dance. Why should trimming the herbs suddenly get that glory when half of what's responsible for it is cheating? I don't think the guy is pure evil, but rather shows exactly the costs of lying - you damage the future in some untold way. In this case, robbing the moment from the last dance. To put it another way beating a TAS is just cool - but it's been done before, beating the last dance was an achievement 6 years in the making and the moment was totally lost because some dweeb lied.

@@uponeric36 The weird thing is that other TAS levels, which were known to be TASed, were included in the list as they were deemed beatable. This one was analyzed and deemed beatable. Why is this one different? Because it was the last? Also I wouldn't say he lied. Nobody bothered to ask, and if it wasn't for the exact circumstances and arbitrary decisions by others, nobody would have cared. What took away the achievement wasn't that it was a TAS, but arbitrary decisions by team 0% itself.

thank god no one visiting the video will have to watch it now should they go to the comments during the ad. nice

@@thedarkness125 bro what are you doing browsing without an ad blocker

​@@Nikolai0169 using a phone

@@ALUCARDSOULJA that not an excuse, you can get ad blockers on a phone

@@ALUCARDSOULJA So? You can install ad blockers on your phone too, you know. Being to lazy to google how to do it isn't an excuse.

I'm kinda disappointed with this video. He just wasted the whole video shaming the TAS guy as if that was the only valid point of view, or the only thing to talk about

@@aquelecientista4491 It sucks, but he probably gets more views focusing on the negative side of this. I wish this was more about someone overcoming the odds and somehow beating a cheated run. If Karl had uplifted the runner who overcame the cheated run and made the cheater the footnote of this video I feel I would have appreciated this video a lot more.

@@fendour_it’s kind of out of character for Karl cus he always makes videos about giving people props for doing insane runs. I think he just had an idea for the video in mind and he didn’t really think about the other aspect of it, it being, that a TAS run was completed by a human

Sanyx is "the uploader" now, the bastard child of a level now has it's rightful home among other legit levels.

It wasn't even the worst time. It wasn't the best, that would have been before it became the last level ( but by then, he had already left the community for years, without being able to realize his initial intentions ) The worst time would have been after the deadline and if the level wasn't beaten ( which, as you said, was the outcome he probably was expecting, since this was the whole purpose of the level ) Coming clean when he did still allowed for the combining of the "This level was cleared by someone other than the creator" and the "You known what ? Not even the creator could complete this level, it was made to be impossible, but it was cleared, and before the deadline" hypes into one, and made the determination to grind even more impressive ( as the assurance that it was possible was replaced by the knowledge that it was supposed to be impossible ) I wouldn't even call this guy a cheater, this is the first time I see Karl miss the mark with this wide of a margin. He's the only one I've seen to take this angle, and he shouldn't have.

@@draghettis6524 Yeah, this video is weirdly antagonistic, calling him a 'cheater' and saying he lied, but this wasn't a competition nor was he directly confronted about this prior to it becoming important. I agree Karl's portrayal here was a little inaccurate. It's still unfortunate of course, and I can understand the frustration, yet pointing fingers at this guy feels like an attempt to vent frustration by putting a face to the problem to take it out on.

​@@delaneyelekes8660Karl is just reporting the feelings many people had, especially those who were members of Team 0%. The announcement legitimately made people feel sad and bittersweet, and it decreased the hype and attention that Sanyx should've gotten for beating the level.

Cheaters shouldn't cheat 👍

I don't blame him at all for coming forward to the mods when he did. Team 0% made a crazy amount of progress in a stupidly short amount of time towards the end, there, and even if he had been made aware of the effort, it probably didn't occur to him that TTH could become the final roadblock until that actually happened. Some people were saying they wished he had waited to come forward until after the servers came down. And, like, I can see that angle. If it gets beaten, then great, everyone gets to be super hyped about someone beating the final, ridiculous level. If it doesn't get beaten, he gets to come forward and tell Team 0% that they had won after all. But I can also see from his perspective why it was important to get ahead of the possibility that it _didn't_ get cleared before the deadline. Like, he got a lot of hate for this, even though it's a pretty small community. If TTH hadn't been cleared and _then_ he came forward, it would have been way worse. Really, the greatest shame of the whole thing is that he didn't share the TAS tech with other people at the time he used it. The TAS community is years behind where it could be for Wii U games if he had come forward initially after the contest/showcase.

Yeah, it's a really sick clear, but it isn't relevant to the video topic. He's talking about the creator of the map, and the impact of him, not whoever actually beat it.

@@CournalGD That's why people are complaining about it. He didn't bring it up for 5 seconds, he mentions it *in a positive light* for 5 seconds and then for some reason tries to downplay it. For instance, talking about people cheering for it "even though they knew it was a cheated level" as if it wasn't an achievement. Karl is unnecessarily aggressive about this, like Ahoyo made the proof of concept TAS level 7 years ago for the express purpose of soiling the challenge.

I feel the problem was that confessing at the time they did could have jeopardized its clear status as many people were discouraged in beating a cheated level. Staying silent about it would keep it more likely, so it's a miracle that it got cleared after all.

@@AgStarRay Staying silent would have been the absolute worst move possible. Imagine, you're Team 0% and you have been defeated by this level. But then, who-knows-how-long after the deadline, the creator comes in and says "Yeah, this level was made to be impossible without TAS, I made it to show the community that I had created the tools for this, but it didn't got the widespread attention needed for that before I left the community" How would you feel ? For this, it doesn't matter that the level was eventually beaten, because the creator made the level for it to be unbeatable, and thus likely considered this scenario more probable than any alternative. The best move would've been to come clean before it became the last level and had an unreasonable amount of time put into it, of course. But failing that, confessing before the deadline was the second best move. It made the clear more impressive, since there wasn't the assurance that it had been beaten by the creator before, instead replacing it with the knowledge it was both TAS'd and made to be the closest to impossible for humans the creator could manage ( something which made the grind require more motivation, as seen with how all but two or three of the players grinding it quit upon the news ), and it combined the hype of "I was the first non-creator to beat this" and of "Not even the creator could clear this level, but *I* did it" in one. I wouldn't call this guy a cheater, this was made with a noble, or at least neutral goal, and this is not the tale of the "malicious cheater" that Karl usually tells. Maybe he defaulted to it due to being so used to conmen and "evil" cheaters ? But he was the only one to use this approach, and for the simple reason that it is the wrong one. This is not the tale of cheating souring what should have been celebrated by all. This is the tragic tale of a monumental achievement ( TASing Mario Maker back in 2017 ) going unnoticed for years, and later accidentally hindering another monumental achievement ( 0%ing the game ) through the lack of clarification, only to make it even more impressive once the truth was revealed. It is the tale of how everyone, both those in the community and those outside of it ( like Trimming's creator, who had left it years ago ), united for the ultimate fight, and succeeded against more-than-impossible odds. An inspiring tale, one every fandom wishes it had.

​@@draghettis6524 You know what, I think I agree with you... Staying silent would have been such a fitting troll move, but having the level creator confess did propose the challenge to those who were committed to beating it, and the others who didn't actually want to try can go do something else. However way this situation would have unfolded, I think it would have been suited for this game and its community, either as the silent ultimate troll move or a bonus challenge that was against the odds.

​@@draghettis6524bro could've shared the TAS but he didn't because he was sour nobody liked his cheated level. So he lied. Wow, how heroic. I do think he should have announced it, because it really wasn't fair to keep people stuck on trying to beat it when they really shouldn't need to bother. However, the question isn't about what should've happened. It's about what did happen. And what happened was that his timing was the worst possible time in terms of the greater hype of the challenge. The victory had a sense of hollowness, and there was a big chance the clear might not have happened before the deadline at all. The clear was exciting, but no longer expected. Anyway, knowing it's TAS didn't actually change the environment too much. Runners had already determined exactly what made it so difficult, and they knew just how precise you would need to be. It was nice to beat a cheater, sure, but it was no longer this massive community effort that everybody was engaged in. It was just like, "Huh, serves the guy right, big congrats to Sanyx."

Poo believed what he’s told is the truth.

To me this is the real story here. Makes me wonder if that was also cheated.

​@@headsupfiction8582Nope, sanyx is just that good, he streamed himself grinding out attempts on the level for several hundred hours, and he got close a couple times as well.

​@@headsupfiction8582there were quite a few cheated clears by the time Sanyx got this one done. 10, I think. This one they made sure was legit.

This flies very much under the radar in this video. Ahoyo created his own TAS tool for the Wii U. That is absolutely wild. To fake a Mario maker level. The amount of work for this. Even more crazy a human has beaten this level. Absolutely crazy.

I'd like to know the odds of beating a TAS level. Gotta be something insane

If you were around during that time there was immense infighting due to the TAS discourse, him coming out and admitting it was actually really good for the community

@@SC_Blast Plus wasn't he a kid when he did it? I dunno, kids do dumb things. BarbarousKing said it best. Raking someone over the coals for messing around as a kid is dumb, and him building a TAS when everyone said it couldn't be done on Wii U is pretty hype.

He planned the whole thing to reveal that TAS in mm was a thing but the level didn't get enough attention and he forgot all about it and moved on

I think he's the real hero here.

This really is a bizarre video as far as how Karl scripted it. I've already watched 2 or 3 videos on this level about a month ago and they both mentioned how this level was meant to show off the ability to TAS in SMM. The guy wasn't trying to make an impossible troll to ruin everything, he just made a mistake by not revealing it when the level didn't get any attention. IDK this just feels really weird for Karl to cover when it was an innocent mistake that was cleared up over a month ago. The guy is completely uninvolved with the community now and this video will probably just send a wave of immature people to harass him.

[Erroneous claims removed. My sincere apologies.]

Pretty sure that's bullshit. He would receive questions about the level as soon as there are less than 20 left.

​@@davidlevy706 This is not true lmao, you can check the wayback archives of that video and see that the description never changes until 22nd March, the day it was revealed TTH was TASed .What you showed are comments under the video by watchers, not updates by Ahoyo.

@@bartek3618 You're correct (and right to laugh at me). After the snapshots failed to load in Chrome (I should have tried Firefox), I viewed the page source and somehow isolated the wrong text, which I mistakenly attributed to Ahoyo. I was certain that I recalled him making such statements (if not on RU-vid, someplace else), but I may have misremembered. I sincerely apologize for the error (and for muddying the waters).

@@davidlevy706 No worries, we all make mistakes

I think the timing is perfect if he really did intend to troll with it. Top tier 10/10 trolling.

Next time don’t waste your life on pointless nonsense like speed running.

had he confessed earlier, people would be amused and even impressed he created his own TAS tools at the time there were none.

​@@reginaldforthright805 Are you lost?

@@mistermustachiogmc1256 This video has been up for only 45 minutes. They're 100% just here to annoy people.

It was, but yeah I don’t really know why Karl unfortunately went this route.

Actually I feel like I do, so here’s my theory: My guess is that Karl had initially only heard of the incident of the cheated submission when he started making this video. From his perspective, the cheated submission was the story he was focused on, causing him to lose sight of the significance of the level being defeated legitimately before the servers went down. It was a huge victory for the community, and was the perfect end to their triumphant adventure. Sadly, Karl likely missed the mark due to being too hyper focused on the cheating aspect of the story for his video, and I’m sure will come to see that in time (if he hasn’t already).

Because by the time Sanyx beat the level, all of the hype about clearing the last levels of Mario maker had already died down and not many people outside of the community cared about the level anymore

I was there too! Unfortunately my arcusGood emote didn’t show on the chat replay in this video. Clunk.

“The vibes” XD love internet lingo First time I heard some one say that outside of normal humans was this dude name Conor from trash taste. A anime podcast I watch to be able to relate to my cousin. She one of the new gen humans :3

​@@mariorodriguez-ws4xs idk what you are trying to say, but thats been a saying since the 1960s... and i

@@William-Morey-Baker than you my meat sack, use it like I do. But I swear the new gen uses our slang differently……like they stoped inventing and just are re-writing……*take hit of virtual joint* feels like I’m watching seeds grow into trees over and over but each seed grows into the same tree, kinda seems boring to me. *takes real hit of joint” Life has existed forever and I’m blessed to still want to exist *takes bong hit* Niggggaaaa!!!! You remember when kids would get broken just for being into games,anime,card, anything outside of a bullies normal? And now what a life. Humans who are uncomfortable with outside can survive making a living inside. Rest in peace to all those that couldn’t make it…..they would get bullied bad. *drinks water* Life is great, existence for me myself and I is amazing, may the crazy’s share a beer or two….but I prefer a smoke

I was also there for that, props to sanyx for being able to grind that watching him running into spikes every 3 seconds for hours a day made the whole process look really frustrating

That wasn’t the point of the video, so why would he have

@@waccness449 yah, but especially in this day and age with so many awful people around, it's just as important to call them out as it is to celebrate those that can rise above despite the others.

@@thefuturetom I wouldn’t call either “important.” It’s a RU-vid video it’s not that deep

@@waccness449 gaming is a large part of many people's lives just like RU-vid. It is just a video and I'm not trying to argue that it's damaging, but I think you're also underestimating the both positive and negative effects media can have on people, especially in society today

@@thefuturetom Gaming should not be a large part of anyone’s life. That’s unhealthy. No video game “achievements” are any more “important” than another. Because none of them are important at all. No achievement “deserves” to be talked about. They can be fun, they’re entertainment. I like them. But they’re not important. Recognizing an “achievement” in a video game is not “important.” It’s not “important” to celebrate anything that anyone does in any video game because it doesn’t matter. The video wasn’t made to highlight how impressive or important what Sanyx did was. The point of the video was the cheater and the team who tried to beat his level. You’re free to talk about whatever you want on RU-vid and nobody needs to bow down and make sure they’re giving proper “respect” to one person or another. Nobody cares. It’s all entertainment. Nobody “deserves” that what they did in a video game needs to get recognition. No one “deserves” video game clout. If you feel that Karl didn’t spend enough time worshipping Sanyx for his “achievement,” that’s incredibly sad and pathetic.

The bummer comes from the fact that since team 0% only plays noncheated levels, when ahoyo admitted to cheating, the climatic moment for the ending vanished, and it felt like a cop out. Sanyx beating it was amazing, but since it technically wasnt needed because team0% had already won, it felt like an extra point rather than a insane ending.

@@DamienSMM I completely disagree with this... If anything it makes the achievement even better. Team 0%, whose goal was to leave zero percent of levels unbeaten, ended with a level literally never beaten by man. With every other level someone cleared them at least once to upload them, so ending in this way feels even more symbolic while also demonstrating the absolutely insane skills of the players. The way karl did the video feels in bad taste to me... Rather than focusing on the absolute insanity of the final clear, he instead talked about how sour and ruined this moment was. It felt like it being cleared was an afterthought, and he was more focused on bashing the person who uploaded a cheated level, as opposed to actually celebrating the achievements of these amazing players.

@@Cacti54321 What happened was that everyone knew Trimming the Herbs was going to be the final level so a lot of streamers didn't put in effort to clearing the last few levels until only Trimming the Herbs remained. Then it was a race with a bunch of streamers putting in dozens of hours to try to be the first to beat it. People were getting more consistent and progress was slowly being made. Streamers were getting 3x-10x their normal viewers as everyone was hyped to see who would make it first. Thousands of dollars of bounties were being posted for whoever got the clear. Then Ahoyo announced that the level was cheated. The hyped ended and most people stopped watching. The celebration was kind of scattered because everyone wasn't expecting Team 0% to end at that moment and a lot of people had notices set to ping them when Trimming the Herbs was beaten so they'd know when to show up. A couple streamers kept at it, but most quit. Sanyx went on to beat it, which was amazing, but it wasn't the race to the finish that everyone had been expecting. To find out that Team 0% had already ended about a week earlier was deflating for a lot of people.

@@DamienSMM this is a strange comment. team 0 percent wasn’t playing TAS levels not out of principle but because this and the other level the guy made are the only two TAS levels in the entire servers because he came up with a new way to do it when no one thought it was possible. they didn’t have a list of cheated vs non cheated levels they were completing it was just assumed all level were uncheated

@@Cacti54321 tbf if he were to take that angle, how much could he really talk about? He could talk about the grind and the race to beat it in more detail, but there honestly isn’t too much more there. Ofc it is an amazing achievement and I’m really proud of my friend Sanyx

Yep that's what happened. it was marked as TAS only but some persistent players ended up beating the level a few days before the server shut down

@@Simoss13 just 1 player (Sanyx) ended up beating it

I'll give him credit for coming clean in the end.

Yes his confession was along the lines of “oh, that thing I cheated for fun? You guys are interested in it now? Well shucks… about that…” he wasn’t intending to hide some big secret.

Lunatic

Hes a huge scumbag

Yeah It's not the same level, still kinda sleezy, but definitely didn't have the intent to rob anyone of records or anything.

fake drama and clickbait, he is a real youtuber now.

No

No, I think he did it justice. Ahoyo deserves the lashing for his asshole move.

The youtuber Henryst made a much better video covering this subject. It's sad how little views he got compared to the quality of his video.

​@@aquelecientista4491thanks for the mention, im gonna check that vid out

Yeah, I like a good Jobst video but this one doesn't seem to paint the most complete picture of what was going on. There's already videos on the subject that do a much better job of it.

adding onto this, if anytime somebody does something slightly suspicious in a competitive gaming community we instantly assume bad faith and call hacks, we are destroying the credibility and trust in our top players. as seen in the spaceuk situation in geometry dash, its important to hear someone out when they make a hackusation. however, if we normalize making hackusations where nothing definitive comes out of it, it becomes impossible to trust anyone, and everyone loses.

Yeah, Barb had the best take on it imo. Just a kid being dumb and building a TAS everyone said couldn't be built. Sucks if they didn't beat it, but he came clean and they beat it anyway.

They likely had to shut down the server for cost reasons. Sure you could argue that they're a multi-billion dollar company, but that status doesn't remain forever.

@@DarkStarCoreXThat might be so but then they should allow people to independently host the maps and to install them. If other people are willing to take on the hosting costs when you aren’t you should encourage that.

@@DeansDiscourse But then more people would simply play old, working, fun games, especialy if new content for them is created by the community itself, instead of buying the new game nintendo wants them on.

@@MrRast0r Absolutely that could be a problem for them from their perspective but that’s no longer the argument that it simply costs them too much to continue hosting it, that’s an entirely different justification. One is: We can’t afford to continue hosting this because it costs too much. Solution: let others host it The other is: We don’t want to host this or allow others to host it because we’d make more money. Solution: shutter the servers and force people to buy new products The two reasons produce completely different logical responses.

@@DarkStarCoreX We aren't talking about MMO servers with millions of players but servers for uploading and downloading a couple files. This could be done by a $100 computer in some cupboard nowadays and unless I see real numbers I won't believe any of those "cost reasons" claims because they seem so obviously wrong. More likely they either couldn't be bothered to do some required updates or just want you to buy the newest version of their game/console.

This is the real answer. People are getting upset of nothing imo

@@JtotheDoubleL Exactly. This video is extremely polarizing, and not at all representative of the Mario Maker community. I've heard nothing but happiness for what happened with the clearing of TTH, and I'll always state it's a good thing that TAS wasn't released to the public. There would have been endless TAS uploaded levels on the mario maker servers.

I was really glad we did beat it, but I wouldn't have been sad if we didn't. It simply wasn't on the list of unbeaten levels anymore. They had accomplished their goal. This made it so that when it was beaten, it didn't have the fan fair it should've had. This is an unfortunate fact of the situation.

​@@drzoidberg71I've heard many people, especially those in Team 0%, express the sentiments described in this video. Being mad at Apoyo, not feeling like the victory tasted as sweet, etc.

@@innertuber4049 oh sure, when the TAS was first announced, disillusionment set in. But once TTH was cleared, it was like everyone and their mother popped off.

Y’a sure he confessed et the best timing, after continuing to lie about having beaten it himself

Ahoyo still sucks

​@@DamienSMM Made a level and TAS that nobody cared about and then forgot about it how insanely evil

@@Gulitize uploaded bombs5, a level which was famous and celebrated in the community as one of the hardest achievements in all of Mario maker. He was praised for his skill and dedication. And it turns out he was lying and pretending to be legit. Let people spend hundreds of hours on trimming the herbs before confessing. After not being caught decided to not confess for 7 years. Also using TAS to upload a level to the servers is considered cheating, especially when you pretend you did it legit.

​@@DamienSMMalso gloating in real time about tth being uncleared through march using the clear video's description, knowing perfectly well that it was TAS'ed. yep, not malicious at all. 🤡

🤓

Nah

Yeah, he beat a cheater. The cheater would've been disqualified anyway, but how embarrassing is it to cheat and still lose? The guy that did it deserves extra recognition for still winning.

I personally agree but some people feel differently I suppose.

​@@HebiSnakenah, nobody feels differently. It's not that the win shouldn't be celebrated, submit that it wasn't celebrated. The hype was mostly gone by that point. It was exciting to see it happen, but it was bittersweet.

Yeah this was my first thought

@@innertuber4049 Honestly, I view the original final level clear being the 100% completion stage and the true Trimming The Herbs clear as a 101% completion like certain old-school games did.

100%

I think Karl is way too harsh on him. The main harm is done to the few players who tried to actually beat it (and who wouldn't have done it if he confessed earlier). Other than that, it doesn't matter too much.

I mean he did cheat sooooo

​@@RetsamXit made it so we never actually got an opportunity to all go check the site together and see Mario Maker had actually been cleared. Instead, the site announced it after he announced he had cheated. That felt really icky.

I don't think Ahoyo believed that TTH was _unbeatable._ I think even once the serious players dissected it they didn't believe it was unbeatable. Like, the other level he uploaded, Bomb5, _was_ beaten, and it's longer and contains some extremely tight precision in some of its sections as well. It was more that there were only two weeks left and it was hard enough that it was reasonable to believe that it wouldn't get beaten in that time. (The dude who finally did beat it put in dozens of thousands of attempts.)

i think the word "cheater" in this context is also misleading, because it implies he truly wanted the level to go down in history with no one knowing it was uploaded by a TAS. This level is a massive achievement all around, because as far as the community was aware, TAS wasn't a thing for the Wii U. Ahoyo planned on unveiling his TAS. The problem is TTH seemed not so hard. There was no uproar about it, so the unveiling never happened. I don't view this as cheating. He intended on releasing this TAS to the public. I don't know why he didn't otherwise, but maybe it's a good thing he didn't, because there would have been millions of TAS uploaded levels on Mario maker.

Yeah, you can tell that Karl really wanted to push the "cheater drama" angle on this one, regardless of how accurate it is.

​@@drzoidberg71 and here I was thinking cheater meant someone who uploaded a TASed level, lied about it, lied about proof and never said anything until he was found out 🤔silly me. Oh he "intended". He iNtEnDed. then that's a different story now. U goofy ahh

As soon as I'd heard TtH was beaten legit I knew Karl was going to do an episode, but I thought it would be a feel-good triumph story about a badass beating THE impossible level. As it stands Karl barely mentioned Sanyx as a footnote and something about that left a sour taste in my mouth. This take felt to me like something Karl's haters could point to when they say he only plays up cheater drama even when it's not the full story.

I think what Karl is saying is that the drama has a whole takes away from the final moment. Sure, it was still very cool, and a great achievement, but it still took the lime light away from the overall goal. It was unnecessary drama. That was the story. Not them finishing it.

It's a really bad taste method to go about something so silly. Malicious no, but undeniable negative impact for no good reason yes.

the not-at-all-malicious ahoyo kept updating the clear videos's description during march to gloat about tth being unbeaten in real time. all done not maliciously of course, definitely.

This comment needs to be upvoted/liked so more people read it. This video is wrong in so many ways; not only does it bash Ahoyo when it was not needed at all but it also just glances over the TTH legit completion by Sanyx which was a monumental achievement that should have been covered in more detail.

ahoyo is a narcissistic loser, really. he got the TAS working, he made a brutal level to show it off, and he wanted to be the guy in the spotlight when the level got dissected. but then it never happened. nobody cared about him. so he just vanished. "fine if you wont pay attention to me, ill take my ball and leave!" and we continued to have fun without him. now it comes out that this level is the last challenge, and he has to come clean and admit hes a cheater. he got his time in the spotlight, but its not exactly what you want, you dont want to go down in the stories as the guy that cheated and ruined the fun for everyone else. he shouldve shown off the TAS shit when he made it, so the level couldve been rightfully deleted. cheaters shouldnt cheat, its a simple rule.

@@RiX20xx care to provide evidence? Your statements make me curious so I checked the Wayback Machine, there was no changes made in the description in his videos prior to 22 March - the day he posted his public apology. On March 23rd he changed his description to include the full story. If he did indeed do what you said, that was a scumbag move. However, your story feels really out of place and has not been mentioned by any others so far. I feel like if Ahoyo did indeed do that there would be countless snapshots but I could find none.

It's because Karl is unfortunately a vulture youtuber who feeds off the failings and controversy of other people

@@durpanda123 Lot of people whining about this, but not too many asking themselves if they want a "drama vulture" youtube channel leeching views about Sanyx that could & should be going to channels actually about SMM runs. Do you want that attention & visibility going to the people who actually put in the work, or as you put it, a "vulture" who feeds on drama? Karl stayed in his lane on this video & only spoke in detail about his own wheelhouse, as he should. Y'all are so keen to feel righteous you aren't thinking clearly about how it would look if he took it upon himself to tell Sanyx's story in a video about cheaters.

To me it feels like the part about it being beaten is irrelevant. Largely because of the convenience of the fact and because that run was unlikely possible to scrutinize and verify. Narration of this video lays it on thick about missed perception of the level legitimacy and it being a backstab for the whole community of speedrunners. Did Ahoyo gloat at all? If not, shove your condemnations. The reasons were legitimate. 0% came into existence later, they don't get to get offended.

So you see yourself developing/using a TAS?

People have been surprisingly kind in this comment section. All of the top comments are talking about how they disagree with Karl here. I disagree with Karl too. Karl was too harsh, but I think in general I am happy with how people have looked at this situation and can see past the negative narrative in this video.

Why am I not surprised that someone is weighing in with their expert knowledge of Mario they gleaned from watching it.

You're 100% right though. I feel like Karl's newest vids are somewhat very accusational and harsh, and people that many times didn't mean any harm. Ahoyo definitely didn't have malicious intent, like legit, just imagine he didn't remember he did this shit, and then saw his cheated level was the only remaining one years later. He might have been a kid when he did the level as well, and let's be honest, there was no way he could've known his level would be the last.

He also just seemed very repetitive saying the same things over and over to make the video longer I guess. This video could have been like 2 minutes long and still had the same amount of information.

@@Boogy17 Yes seriously, like cmon this is not the same as people who cheat for attention. Mario Maker is not a competitive game firstly, so who cares if one level is cheated unless in very niche circumstances like this. And Ahoyo's intent was obviously not malicious, it was the opposite, so what is the point of getting mad at him? Things like this just happen in life. It sounds like Karl found out about this situation, took a harsh viewpoint that not even the people affected take, for some personal reason probably, made this video where he's maulding over it (still a topic he has no personal connection to), a video full of biased commentary against the guy, glossing over the positives and fixating on the negativity, end up with one of the most cringeworthy videos I've watched in months. What is even the point, genuinely??? Except money. Cause now you've got a bunch of people who don't really know about the situation who will remember this guy for being awful I guess. I went on a tangent just now but oooooooh the greed and inhumanity of youtubers oooooooh.

@@overlordghs1081 bro is not beating the extended youtube video for watch time allegations 🤣🤦‍♀️ But yeah all that time just to shit on him more, very much using him for money.

@@SasukaRH yeah, it's really sad to see as well. I guess Karl just stopped caring trying to make his audience have their own point of view. All of his recent vids about cheaters just leave a sour taste in my mouth. It's like he just found out drama and negativity makes more views, and tries to capitalize on that.

on the other side, there could have been way more cheating if he published it

@@Edwo1 Very true, as well. Still, he clearly intended to publish it, but honestly it does make sense to kinda forget about it over time when intending to do it in connection with something that never ended up happening.

I think the reasoning to not publish a DIY TAS is that Bombs5 was supposed to be a legit level that he was making around the same time and grinding on stream, but ahoyo got hand injuries grinding it and used TAS to beat that level too so he was incentivized to keep *that* a secret

@@Hakasedess i dont know what makes it clear tbh. He used it twice without letting anyone know. His story would be very smart and convinient if he was actually a cheater at heart, which is totally possible. My gues is, someone who truely cares about a game, would not let cheating go unrevealed twice and think about the cover story.. AFTER he gets caught, then he would reveal. this really sounds bad, like he had a excuse ready for when he gets caught. and he now is still running with that. it really sounds bad brother

@@Edwo1 It's definitely possible, I'm just saying I could see it happening, unlike most similar instances. It's still cheating and stinky, but I can't entirely settle on disbelieving his story either.

It should be a wake up call to the high level players that they can be 100% wrong about something they're world experts in

@@linkmaxwell People who are legitimate experts often struggle to grasp that they might not understand the fields they are NOT an expert in, let alone that they can still be wrong in their own field. You see it all the time with doctors, lawyers, physicists, chemists, economists, etc. People who achieve legitimate expert skill at something often subconsciously believe that their "baseline" knowledge of other fields is above average. I notice this all the time in programming. Lots of people are legitimate experts at programming, but evening in the SAME programming language, being an "expert" often has limitations. There will be types of programs, or types of features that such an "expert" will perform about as well as a much more junior programmer. Even though they are legitimately an expert at something else in the language. Let alone people who are experts at something else related to computers and then jump into to a programming discussion thinking they are an expert there also, which I also see quite a lot. Not everyone falls for this, and not everyone that does fall for it is ALWAYS this way. And the people who do often aren't even aware of how many assumptions about their own knowledge they are making, so they don't do it on purpose.

It was actually celebrated. I honestly don't get what he's talking about with this. Yeah it didn't have news stories, but gaming accomplishments seldom do.

This was 100% celebrated, it got a ton of attention in the community and was one of the most hype @everyone pings I have ever received!

I think Sanyx's achievement should be the emphasized point of this video rather than the long ass repeating the level's author cheating process.

Yeah that's a rare L for Karl on that. People were stoked. Hell, Im not even that into Mario but when I saw TTH got cleared I still cheered lol.

🤣

Hard agree

GPB is going to be so happy he is in the video.

That was the best part of the whole video.

He was so confident that the stage was legit and the tech wasnt there

​@@legendarymoosemanWell, to his credit, _no one_ knew the tech was there. Maybe he shouldn't have been so confident though. Oh well, I'm sure he'll take being in the Karl Jobst video in good fun. After all, he got the coveted role of "They're Too Good to Cheat" Guy.

​@@noahblack914 The tech for a TAS is always there, the only question is the effort required to do it.

Yeah, it really feels like the video missed the mark... The other video I saw on this focused on highlighting just how amazing completing the final levels were, and how the final level being a TAS only made it feel even more amazing when it was cleared, since team zeros goal of leaving no level unbeaten ended with a level that literally no person had beaten before. This video felt very pointed... At least to me it felt like he was somewhat mocking the streamer who believed in a member of the community with a "They ended up cheating this, your wrong" and he focused so much on how this ruined team 0's celebration and how the moment was soured. He also made the guy out to sound like a much worse person than he seemed to be. According to the other video I saw he made it for a contest, nobody paid attention so it got swept under the rug, left the community for a long time and after hearing about team zero confessed. At least to my understanding it wasn't malicious, but karl made him out to sound like a horrible person... Idk, I usually like this videos but this just felt off.

I agree. Its a shame a bunch of people fantasized about another ending but oh well, Team 0% still got their victory

He was right by the way, we just didnt imagined that someone would literally build a machine that would physically press the buttons for them. Impressive shit, not gonna lie

@@Kimera92 Yeah, GPB's logic was actually well-reasoned. It just turned out to be wrong is all since the TAS tech did exist, just nobody other than Ahoyo was aware of it.

@@AliceErishechAhoyo and one of his friends. They built the bot together based on a previous design. It was covered on another channel months ago.

How does someone being so far higher in skill year ago than the best are now seem more plausible than someone quietly figuring out how to cheat in a unique way to this guy? I believe there was even a Karl Jobst video about a mario kart shortcut that someone accidentally found decades ago that no one else did until that very person mentioned it recently where now everyone uses it.

That quote being left in there given the eventual reveal is really funny.

"Ahoyo isn't the bad guy": TASes two levels, lies about it, lets people believe he is legit, people spend hundred of hours onto these levels, admits it's fake but tries to spin it as "not his intention".

@@DamienSMM👆👆👆

The level was essentially supposed to be an announcement that he created a tas input tool, He was going to reveal it to the community when it got enough attention but everyone including him forgot about it, calling him a cheater is outright wrong.

Honest bombs5 was hardly a tas and i think using a tas to finish the little bit of the level you havent cleared because you got a severe injury is very in the grey area of morality​@@DamienSMM

@@tady5720 “calling him a cheater is outright wrong” Ahoyo used TAS tools to upload two extremely difficult levels to the servers and then lied about it. This is absolutely considered cheating in the smm community, even disregarding everything else.

Yes and no... not gonna take away from clearing TTH the achievement was great. Clearing a TAS only run is not something anyone can do. But sadly hype had pretty much died because a huge chunk of the attention of everyone had fizzled since the "official" stage The Last Dance had come and gone already because it had passed and there was no celebration and with TTH not a "legit" stage a lot of folks had turned off by then.

if it was revealed before it was the last level left, sure, but they revealed it after it was the last level left. it robbed the moment for the person who truly beat the last level, killed the hype and momentum for what should have been the finale. whilst beating the TAS level was definitely a huge mechanical achievement a lot of the hype was killed off once it was revealed that only an illegitimate level remained and that 0% was "over". i think the time has passed to heavily criticise this guy, at least i personally don't hold it against him. but the reality is that he singlehandedly killed a huge moment in gaming.

@@RocKM001 Well said.

@@jpryan90Yeah, it's the cherry on top of a magnificent cake, not the rotten egg. Beating a TAS run of a troll level is monumental and should be celebrated.

Most were like, "we do care, we give up." Only a few kept trying, more out of spite than anything. In their tweets saying they would keep trying, they described an attitude that was basically conscious sunken cost fallacy. It is indeed a great achievement that should be celebrated; Karl is simply describing the fact that it wasn't. At least, not to the degree it should've been. And while it was exciting to learn about, there was still sadness and disappointment mixed in.

Team 0% was done with it, but Sanyx was capable of beating it so he kept trying and beat it at the end.

Karl is right. They wee stripped of the chance to have a final celebration when the last level cleared. Ahoyo is scum.

@@innertuber4049 Out of spite? Sanyx kept going for it literally because he could beat it and it would be a great achievement for himself, just like other really hard levels he has beaten. Others kept going for similar reasons too (there was a big bounty of money on it). How is that out of spite?

Sponsorblock.

So based

The message was "I'm a brat and don't you dare do anything interesting to my heckin speedruns or I'll write a hitpiece"

@@PROtoss987 I wouldn't call cheating "interesting", it's pretty pathetic

@@KaiSub Except it's not cheating, Nintendo owns the servers and their TOS say custom controllers are allowed. If Team0% have a problem, boo hoo.

You don't cheat uploading two of the hardest levels in mario maker history, pretend like it was legit for 7 years, and then get to say you are innocent.

@@DamienSMM I haven't seen anything where he was claiming to be innocent though. Everything I've heard says that he was trying to let people know that he had planned a reveal of the TAS tools long ago and it didn't pan out. Then, he realized that his TAS only level could ruin everything that Team Zero 0% was going for, so he wanted to let them know that if they didn't clear it it wasn't a failure of their mission because the level was thought to be humanly impossible. He was trying to apologize for ruining their moment.

@@DamienSMM blown away by how so many people are missing this.

@@CowCommando He ruined the moment by staying silent until the very end, he's just a pretentious asshole looking for attention. So he's gonna get all the negative attention he deserves.

@@CowCommando you forget he also TAS-uploaded uploaded bombs5, a level which was famous and celebrated in the community as one of the hardest achievements in all of Mario maker. He was praised for his skill and dedication. And it turns out he was lying and pretending to be legit. Him confessing to being a cheater doesn’t justify him being a cheater, and I’m sick of all the comments defending him.

Exactly, he didn't just download cheating tools, he straight up designed and engineered PHYSICAL cheating TOOLS, straight into his gamepad. Absolutely wild stuff

Wow so cool of the cheater to being the first to cheat... /s

@@lucasLSD We can be impressed by the technical achievement of the tool even if the tool wasn't used for the best purposes.

​@@lucasLSDtone indicator way to go invalidate your point 😂

@@lucasLSD TAS isn't cheating. Creating a TAS-only level in SMM isn't cheating. Ahoyo didn't cheat.

drama sells, so he preferred making a video crying about something meaningless than celebrating the victory. Really disappointed with this video.

@@saphi20 yeah, the drama Ahoyo caused, complain to him.

@@lucasLSD No, he absolutely did not cause it. He didn't ask for "Team 0%" to exist and set the goal that they did. All he did was build his own tech in order to be able to upload a level that he felt was possible. (And ultimately, it was.) This is a prime example of "The Community" creating their own drama where there was none.

oh so the author are multiple people? like team 0%? Then they should have noticed it sooner, is weird a team would suddenly stop playing at the same time tho :(

@@saphi20 No. I'm using "they" here because I don't know the gender of the person.

@@rajamicitrenti1374 its a he

@@rajamicitrenti1374🤦🏻‍♂️

Don't misinform people, the guy was updating the tth clear video's description in real time, gloating about tth being unbeaten. In case you missed what that means: not only he very well knew the level he TAS'ed without telling anyone was being grinded, he also taunted players for as long as he could.

Yeah Karl took an L with this vid

Especially considering they left the community for years.

@@draghettis6524 NOOO, don't you understand! You have to be terminally online at ALL times, unless you are playing video games. Better if you do both. -Karl Jobst writing for this video probably

I only watch his N64 videos, really enjoy those

Yeah thab is a cool dude. Went to school with him, he was always an insanely good gamer

I used to his YT uploads regularly but eventually over time I get tired of him. Nowadays when I see him I sorta roll my eyes but I can't quite put into words why, just something about him is very off putting to me.

Thab videos are awesome. Great n64 series.

karl really missed the mark on this video i hate to say

Karl is sucking up to the woke nintendo manchild community. I used to think he was based for destroying the scampletionist but clearly his basedness was only temporary

@@technobladeleakedclips1827 Jesse what the fuck are you talking about?

@@thewolfman1202 Karl jobst bent the knee to the woke mob

@@technobladeleakedclips1827 wtf jesse wheres the cocainer did you stick it up your nose again

Godlike comment

Yeah, when I heard about the scandal originally, I thought it was a legitimate level being cleared by a cheater. THAT would have been a real travesty, especially if the time ran out before the cheating was revealed.

@@gobs379There were actually quite a few legitimate levels with hacked first clears. Team 0% made sure to find some way to clear them legitimately.

Is this the covert account for Bowser (and his Big Bean Burrito)?

Apparently there’s money to be made. No other reason.

​@@Youarentpassing how you watch youtube videos is beyond me with that kind of cynical outlook.

Oh I’m curious about this now.

​@@rphntw1n msushi has a video covering it. i don't remember the name of the video but it was a few years back, and starts with him going over a mostly unrelated tourney including some top celeste runners