Why The Biggest CHEATER in Mario Kart 64 Wasn't Caught 

Underrated reference

@@itsneryssa I have the quote in the video!

@@Abyssoft Yeah I commented before watching hehe, great video though

Holy moly

aint tas where you can rewind and program each frame so the game looks like a flawless god played it?

This is the only time that scheme has actually worked!

@@kimaboe Muppet Man in the 2011 Muppets movie almost worked!

@@davidspraguedragonman6479 if your plan is to become three kids in a trench coat, then your plan works

...This is absolutely right. Damn!

loooooool

This also happens in sports.

@@alicered4198 especially auto racing, where half a second is still an eternity and moreso at the top level

I think about this all the time in speed running history videos. They're always like, "this trick was insanely hard to pull off. It required 4 frame perfect inputs, but if you could do it you would save .2 seconds. A massive time lead over the record."

It's... not just a speedrunning thing though

Wait till you discover real racing

omg this one is too good

He used the pals the destroy the PAL

Pal vs PAL

"you may have pal, but I have pals!"

Just got back from the doctor. I'm sure you don't care but your cringe gave me a malignant tumor

You had two choices: "NO, I'M WITH THE SCIENCE TEAM!" or "OH MERRYMEN~!" you chose neither.

@@starplane1239 "Nah I'm with my boys" is the original and far superior version

@@starplane1239 ayop is that a projekt melody reference

@@theblues993 No. Its a meme format. Memes were not invented by vTubers...

I can't believe I actually had to say that.

Still it's an unfair advantage for all PAL players. The community should have split the times at the start due to the lower skill level required in the PAL version(not saying it doesn't require skill).

@@wakannnai1 I was so confused as "They run at different speeds, so we have PAL and NTSC boards" wasn't the solution at second 0... Like, Why?!

@@SodlidDesu It seems like early speedrunning communities in general didn’t think of having different categories for types of speedruns. Which is also why glitchless vs glitch-based vs TAS speedruns was such a controversy in the early/earlier days of speedrunning. But yeah, the modern speedrunning community handles these things a lot better.

@@femboyroxas Noooo, HE had the version advantage. That was the entire reason for the three of them to pull off the stunt. He was essentially getting to play easy mode compared to them

They cheated but the times are still ligitamit

@@makingadjustments well it plays a massive role getting to see firsthand what they do and being able to ask for advice with your friends. I learned to do many things many people around me consider not feasible or rare for my age, context or whatever. And most of it is due to knowing a guy who knows hahah

@@makingadjustments And just to add, I would recommend the book 'Bounce : Mozart, Federer, Picasso, Beckham, and the science of success' by Matthew Syed, a former pro table tennis player. It's been a long time since I read it, but I recall that he provides an example in his own case, where 5 of the top 10 British table tennis players at one time all came from the same *street*. The reason was that a local community centre installed a table tennis table, and made it available 24 hours a day, and the coach was super enthusiastic which lead to these kids playing each other a bunch and all 'levelling up' at the same pace. Syed's dad then installed his own table in his home, and Syed became the best of all of them. He also provides similar examples, like a small tennis club in Moscow providing more top 20 female tennis players than the US combined, over a 10 year period. It was a real eye-opener for me. There are probably millions of people out there that could be successful in a bunch of sports, but they are just never introduced to them or given the opportunity to pursue them.

@@johnbull1568 we had the same thing in pool tournaments. about 5 of us friends used to just play occasionally after uni lectures, and there was one guy who was very talented, so intially he kicked our butts every time. the rest of us were not talented, but, we were all competitive and wanted to beat him and each other, and not be the worst. so we kept playing, kept pushing each other, and any time one of the group seemed 'the best' everyone else pushed harder to catch up and surpass them. Within a few years we were all good enough to enter national tournaments and place decently well, despite only him having any real natural talent and none of us realising how good we'd actually become at the game until we entered some local tournaments assuming we'd get destroyed and doing it for a laugh. It was simply that friendly competitiveness and constantly learning from each other that pushed us that far.

@@makingadjustments That actually makes sense. When I was I'm high-school I play CoD4 A LOT with 4 other people, one of them just kinda fucked off and the 3 of us would just decimate everybody we came across. So many times full clans would play us full 6 on 3 and talk shit and they'd all leave before the match officially ended. I'm not sure who was actually the best out of us, but what you said actually makes a lot of sense with what I've experienced.

That's because it's not talent, but effort. Getting good at these games just takes an insane amount of time and dedication. Just not that many people put the effort in. The shocker is that three people that crazy decided to all come together and speedrun the same game. You also have to be fit enough to have held onto your reflexes. If you turn 30 and haven't religiously exercised, then your reflexes degrade.

ikr couldnt wrap my head around splicing it without altering what the times are themselves lol

a decent amount of cheating is like that where the run is not very segmented so stuff does not match easily

If the time is the important thing you could just manipulate/splice the timer very slightly .. it probably couldn't be done with 2004 tech very easily though

@@abelicio3586 Yeah I mean back in the day, that would have been the way to do it. I know my mate had a video capture device back in the early 2000s. If you recorded it back to VHS it would be near impossible to do frame by frame analysis back then

Oh hey! Long time no see pal

Oh, so this video was actually useless and clickbait? Thanks man, saved me 20 minutes. I wish this sh!t had tl:drs...

They would look the same and when for example guy number 1 can't speedrun a track he would ask to go to the bathroom, then he would switch places with the brother that specializes in that track and speedrun it lol

Well, you just stream the game screen, the face and the hands on the controller. All you need is 3 record material players with sufficiently similar hands and the face of 1 person who is sufficiently good at acting like they are playing. Also 2 identical controllers for when you want to lift it up into the face camera (needs to be timed correctly, though). The controller inputs line up perfectly with what's happening on screen and the facial reactions don't need to much to be convincing. If the reactions of "the face" lag behind a bit too much, you could always put a fraction of a second of delay on the game screen and hands.

And we can even call Nolan to make a movie out of it!

The funniest bit? A lot of games don't have stream reqs and the ones that do don't always have input reqs (some of them do require you show the controller or have controller inputs on screen) long as you pick the right game you could totally still do this today, but I can't imagine that'd be nearly as fun or rewarding

I have DID so get on my fucking level - I wouldnt even have to try this would just happen, except itd probably kill runs as our skill at the game drop massively 😅

He had 3 rivals instead of 1

Joseph vs the pillar men

Imagine needing 3 people to challenge you at once in order to be defeated. That implies you're skilled no matter what.

Two, the guy himself only was good enough for moomoo lol

@@alexursu4403 i mean, not really He had the hardware advantage no matter how you look at it, and the other two runners were as good as him

You three certainly made for quite the entertaining story to be told. Interestingly enough, a lot of the people active back then are still involved in the community today. MJ has even seen the video. Really cool that you commented, but I've gotta ask, how did you find the video? Troys CM time has only been beaten by 3 people since it was set as well, it's quite the benchmark run in the history of that track.

Lol Hab, we had a discussion on a whatsapp group on why your name was picked as you were the slower of the 3. Was there any reason? Were you the fastest one in the early days, and then they surpassed you? Good to see you are somewhat still around.

Watching someone else go at WR attempts for hours at a time... seems like you guys created twitch long before it came to be a thing.

Honestly that's the funniest form of cheating I have seen.

@@gasasmk honestly when we first started playing we never thought it would go anywhere and we just used my email to submit the times 🤷🏼‍♂️

yeah, it's a really simple+obvious solution today, but back when speedruns were first getting started they probably didn't really have leaderboard splits at all

The old problem with that is that they aren't so different where one can't compete with the other. Games with split boards are usually for "if 1 player plays input perfect, and still can't crack the top of the board in the other category." When it comes to one just requiring more skill or grinding than the other, then usually you keep one board.

A couple games have seperate board and a couple games have figured out the math to translate the results.

Also feels a bit cry baby-ish from the ntsc-ers because in other games they had advantages like the loading faster etc. And I've never heard the PAL people making such a hue and cry about it.

@@painless4785 Lol you just claimed that being a crybaby is a regional thing.

Wait no-

LOL

lmao

If we think that the cheater was not one, but three people, yeah... friends .-.

NANI?

It's more of a flex when you beat them then

Read top comment

@@ComradeHax It wasn't even close to top comment when I wrote that.

I feel like it is extremely suspicious. 3 idiots could beat a genius, but three geniuses to beat just one? Either MJ is literally the best Mario Karter that has ever lived or something strange is happening.

@@blastimbre Weren't they all playing on PAL though?

Hah! Stupid. me too

Well, if you all agree to practice for over a year, I'm sure everybody would get better.

@@hhaavvvvii better and world record holder are different stories though. The record competition had already been going for awhile, WRs take longer than a year to grind for most people, the guy who had 2 maps was the normal amount for a year of grinded. However the friends down the street had shit they looked like 3 years of hard work. So either they were making attempts and got the third guy in late, or by random fucking chance two very naturally talented people were born right next to each other.

Haha good point. They were like the beatles of mc64-right place @ the right time and able to inspire each each-other's talent and dedication.

Depends on the game and when. Back in the mid 2000's I found out about Twin Galaxies and beat a number of world records, but never submitted them. It was more just to be able to say I could do it then it was to have any official status. Now there has been another 15 years of people improving upon earlier records and the skill threshold has gone up considerably.

@@EcnalKcin Sure you did.

You could splice a SC lap 1 into a non-SC record.

@@bwburkeGaming wat?

You can have a good first lap followed by 2 shit laps, but go back and redo the second lap until you get a good one, then the third, then splice together. Obviously, as stated in the video, this would be insanely precise to pull off, and basically impossible without using save states

@@illuminati7ov373 That still wouldn’t work, because you would still have to match the previous lap’s time going into the next lap. In order to get a convincing lap 2, for instance, you would have had to have a good lap 1, otherwise the timer would be off.

Ok I thought I was missing something when he went over that. I just couldn't see an advantage.

That plus they were young

Can confirm. I'm part of that, too. We call ourselves "The 700 Chosen" or Cheese for short.

could some1 explain that joke to me lol

this is a lie. we do not do any such thing.

Hey *Number 274,* you might want to get back to work soon.

@@ConanVictor that's a lie. Our codename is actually "the curds".

It’s kinda cool though and smart like this is gonna be such a cool story for their kids/grandkids

Is it really cheating if you think about it

@@liam6170 yeah exactly, what if you and I have the same tag and speedrun the same game

@Wakssbm I would be more express if I discover my rival was 3 people I mean just the fact it took 3 people to rival him saids a lot well 2 scene it was mostly 2 of them that did the records

Nice pfp

And that will become a Speedrun of debunking speedruns and the cycle will continue

Gotta wonder if its bigger than the actual speedrunning community itself.

That is the standard today (that or they share a leaderboard, but you can filter versions), but back then people were a bit stubborn. And for certain communities, a large portion of said community's top people would often conveniently consist of people within the advantaged region or with the funds to ship in a console from another region so they had little incentive to split the leaderboards when they're the ones who were at an advantage.

Agreed, but I think it helps to explain it if you realize that early speedrun communities were actually REALLY small. I don't know how many people exactly but we're talking hundreds, maybe dozens of people, not thousands.

@@ZeroKitsune It's not just that they were small, we take access to knowledge/info for granted, you wanna learn anything today, just a few clicks around and you have detailed videos explaining even the most trivial or niche shit. Back then, the community was small, and even fewer were people who knew what things like TAS, splicing, how to even capture screen or transfer from vhs camcorders to pc etc etc were. You were considered a god among your friends for even knowing how to hack dial-up/email using simple trojan/back office emails. Sigh, feel like an old person telling kids 'back in the good ol' days...' I'll stop.

I really don't understand why PAL was even allowed in the same bracket as NTSC. Like if I was just for fun sure but seeing as people suddenly got upset over the Three musketeers they clearly took this seriously just not seriously enough to think critically it seems.

@@lastmelon952 same reason European speedrunners of pretty much any other retro game has to get out of their way to import an NTSC console and games. I hardly hear anyone complain about that, but if PAL has the advantage it’s apparently a problem

@@Quirino26 because Pal game ports are dog shit and extremly need their backward 50hz power to run.

@@snintendog nah it's because Amerifats are whiny crybabies who want to have their cake and eat it too.

@@snintendog hey, at least the resolution is bigger and the colors are more accurate. you win some, you lose some.

Or Michael Jordon or Magic Johnson or Michael Johnson

​@@Thiscouver Or Mary Jane.... But MJ is Michael Jackson, just google MJ and see who pops up first

@@newphilmz3605 you sir won the internet for the month 👏🙌 🏆

@@1upgamez353 Cool, I promise I will abuse the power

Yeah ik right

hi rube goldenberger, i did not know you followed mk stuff as well

Yeah that was my thought as well.

Due to input lag from external inputs over internal inputs

"Any cyborg players with class C or better dexterity-enhanced fingers, a class B or better internal processor, and/or class A or better eyes must submit their runs as TAS"

That's actually pretty common in multiplayer games now. A group of friends who probably don't have to work, play all day to get high on the leaderboards.

Ok? So you’re better than us because you already knew it? Grow up.

@@OTcrochet he didn't say anything about being better than those who didn't know

@@OTcrochet Was he TALKING to you? Funny that you tell people to grow up when you're amazingly butthurt over this.

This got a genuine lol from me. 🤭🍍

"They" means multiple humans therefore it cant mean one person.

@@AdamFJH That's not true.. it is not exclusively plural. For example if somebody keys your car, you may say "If I ever find out who did this, they are going to get their ass kicked." It can be used to refer to a person without including their gender.

@@rumham7631 "They" is exclusively plural. The example "If I ever find out who did this, they are going to get their ass kicked." is a very common example of both "they" and "who" being incorrectly use if the person intents to use "they" with a singular person meaning. While "they" is exclusively plural, "who" is not exclusively plural so can mean one person or a group of people. Since you intended to use "who" to mean a single person to try to show that "they" can be correctly use to refer to a singular person, you are incorrectly using "who". The correct use of singular "who" is "If I ever find who did this, he/she is going to get their ass kicked.". The "they" in the first example qualifies "who" to mean a group of people while the "he/she" in the second example qualifies "who" to mean a single person. It is stupid to use "they" to mean both singular and plural as there is a need in languages to refer to a single person and a group of people without ambiguity. In Cantonese (my first language) we use "ku" to refer to a singular person and we use "ku-dee" to refer to a group of people. In English, the grammatically correct way to refer to a singular person is to say "he or she" ("he/she" for short) or to say "that person" so there is no need to incorrectly use "they" to refer to a singular person. Both "he/she" and "that person" is used to refer to a singular person without specifying their gender so there is no issues there.

@@AdamFJH So what are you supposed to say if you don't know the person's gender, or they dont identify as either he or she? Genuinely curious what you are supposed to do in this situation if "they" is grammatically incorrect.

Some of the gpu's of that time even had s-video/composite out. I remember borrowing a big tv from a friend and playing fallout 3 from my pc on it.

I've had tv connected to a pc from 1998 (I had matrox millenium g200 with tv out) and also I could record console games to my pc via cpmposite video input in my analog TV-card...and I played emulated console games with pc. Of course with the tv.

n64 emulators back then (and even still now) have obvious graphical oddities that would be very easy to catch

So you got the signal from the emulator to the TV, then you would record the TV with a camcorder to get the footage for the run? I mean I still use my ancient TV tuner card to play old consoles, but the issue is more getting the footage from the TV in an acceptable quality.

Yeah, this is what confused me about that too - the method outlined in the video didn't even occur to me as a method that one would think to do it, as this seems to be the immediate and obvious answer. It's massively over-complicating the process with only drawbacks.

See what these guys did is actually legit and not cheating If PAL can share a leaderboard. Then friends can share a console and time cards

@@donovanulrich348 no

@@donovanulrich348 pal leaderboard isn't shared, it's calculated differently

Do you know what issues you were in?

This guy, Summoning Salt, and Karl Jobst are my favorites

"What a twist!"

Comments like this keep me motivated to stick with it.

@@Abyssoft if that's the case then you will do this for a long time cuz your content is awesome

@@Abyssoft this is my first video of yours, but I'm definitely checking out some more. I love the topic and the style, keep up the great work!

@@Abyssoft is the troy then play Mario kart wii Chanel did The Royal raceway record no way

Yeah. Like you show the console, you have a webcam showing the runner and you have a hand cam. But who says that they are all from the same person.

I read this right as that part of the video was going by. It felt strange.

touch grass

@@skotonoentomo8 huh?

Cuz baby’s bitch 😂😂 If you gave the hardcore NTSC players a PAL setup. The original PAL players would fade into the background it’s that big a difference

@@donovanulrich348 Not really. As someone who has played on both systems, I've discovered it takes some serious getting used to thanks to the muscle memory.

Europeans knew how to import NTSC games and equipment which usually had the advantage over PAL.

it is looking at the gamergunk fiasco just because of scratched disks they DQed people that were able to get first without cheating and in the face of all the evidence video and everything needed. the Speedrunners practice guilt before innocence best part is even when proven innocent they REFUSE to restore times. They are the CCP of games.

Personally i don't see a problem with it, the records all where legit, the only broken rule was having more than one person by username which is very minor if you ask me

@@rompevuevitos222 it's misleading and unsportmanlike. Back then, records were all based on trust, and lying about things make people not want to trust you (although the records were legit as far as we know, granted). It was just a shitty thing to do regarding the main leaderboard. These three people weren't the best singular player, and shouldn't have been given praise for that. I've probably explained myself badly

@@leftysheppey Yeah but... at the same time. They "confessed" their *truly undetectable* "crime" of their own volition. They were never CAUGHT cheating. So to me that's not even worthy of any distrust. The deceit was temporary and to make a point.

@@TheMiracleMatter A crime being uncatchable doesn't make the confesser more noble for confessing, it makes their initial mindset sh*ttier for having poured a good amount of brainpower into how not to be caught, all the while being aware that what they're doing is wrong.

@@familiayoutuber4769 You made so many wrong assumptions in so few lines, how do you do this ??? You assumed... A. That they believe what they did to be wrong, they justified their acts on the fact that PAL had an insurmountable advantage. B. That they put "a good amount of brain power into how not to be caught". It's literally the simplest fucking idea ever and none of it requires making any effort to not get caught. *They shared an account, nothing else.* ...If anything, what your bringing up is just a shit excuse at demonizing these guys like they plotted for an actual crime. *And C. That the conversation was in anyway about being noble... IT'S NOT.* It was all about them being trustworthy which remains debatable but most certainly put them above people who actually cheat speedruns. They are a lot more akin to "white hat" hackers in that respect. The fact that they are forthright about it is very meaningful whether you like it or not.

I agree that they should be in different categories..and for the championship title top from both win together.

Honestly the difference in difficulty of PAL vs NTSC running is what actually gets pointed out by shenanigans like this. To have to pay the game in 80% the speed of your competition is a world of difference.

The trouble is, speedrunners are major spazzes across the board

@@Bobo-ox7fjwith this scenario you just cant be mad at them, its such a special circumstance, but for other games where its a salty runner who cheats its a lot different

The idea that you would only be concerned if there was a prize involved speaks volumes of you as a person

Dude, Spoilers! ... hang on, this is actual history and not an episodic TV show. My bad. 🤦‍♀️🍍

Mine does.

@@renakunisaki Woah. Must be the new patch. >.>

Assuming the voltage was corrected, the 60v50Hz would only really be a problem if the TV didn't have an internal clock(which is definitely possible) afaik

I thought I'm the only one who knew about Rogue Trip! Such an awesome Twisted Metal but not really game, created by OG Twisted Metal devs. I especially remember the Airport arena and the Hot Dog car. Funnily enough, I never played any PS1 Twisted Metal game, so Rogue Trip is my first experience with Twisted Metal experience.

@@ZX3000GT1 i think you may be the only other person, though. such a fun, forgotten game. #Remaster?

Wait until you see the visual difference. Composite output doesn't do any of the games justice compared to scart rgb. 😆

So, basically what LeKukie does nowadays

@@DmarsHeadshot it was proved that his super mario bros world record was legit