In this video, Dr. John Lennox explains the connection between Plato's Cave Allegory & Christianity. Watch my hour long documentary “Mining For God” for FREE: www.dailydoseofwisdom.co/regi...
Amazing. I was an atheist for most my life. The typical minimal effort dismisser that never gave anything spirtual serious consideration because I thought "it's so obviously a lie it doesn't desearve my time". One day the super natural sort of snuck itself into my view for the first time and it didn't seem so obviously stupid as before. Platos Cave is an excellent paralel to Christian understanding. I now contribute my unbelief to a state of pride that mentally blocks any sort of spiritual faith. It's so visible now speaking to atheists. They have that mental block and literally cannot weigh faith honestly. It's like the idea that "seeing a 4th dimensional being would overload the human brain and kill them so the brain percieves the 4d creature as the closest comprehendable object (like an psychology inkblot test). (That's kinda what i attribute the descriptions of angels to originate from). Atheism I believe can only be undone by the Holy Spirit.
@@helpmaboabbit’s not about being tested. Another naive and ignorant take. It’s about experiencing life that was created by your creator. You have free will to do what you want. But you also will be held accountable for your actions.
@@helpmaboabbThe purpose of our life is love. If you share love and joy, it becomes more. God wants to share love, that's why He created us. And love requires free will, hence we are not robots. Imagine a very rich and very handsome young King who is looking for a good wife to share his life with. There would be plenty of people who pretend to love him but have selfish motives. How could the King find out who has a good heart? He could leave his fiancé for a while but stay nearby in the outfit of a beggar to see if she stays faithful and cares for the beggar. Or if she forgets him as soon as he leaves and ignores the beggar. That's why Jesus says: "what you have done for the least of these, you have done to me." And we can see a glimpse of God's glory and wealth in His creation. The creation shows there is a Creator. Just like a painting shows there is a painter. "Mr Cosmology" Allan Sandage, atheist for decades, came to the conclusion: "The world is too complicated in all parts and interconnections to be due to chance alone." And former atheists Francis Collins and Günter Bechly for instance became convinced of a personal Creator of the universe, too. Your free will alone shows: you are more than matter and death is not the end.
@@helpmaboabbPS: none of us (except little children) has a purely good heart naturally, our nature is: we all tend to be selfish and hateful at times, beginning with gossip, cheating, greed, forgetting our Creator who gave us eyes to enjoy beauty, ears to hear the singing of the birds, romantic sunsets, sweet fruits, good friends etc. In this state, we could not become the wife of the rich and handsome King, to use the analogy above. And no one can look down on others, original sin is very democratizing... Since God is just, He cannot ignore our wrongdoings. Since He loves us endlessly, He became human and payed the price for us. And this love can change our hearts.
@@Maranatha-rk7lh But supposedly, for anyone who presses their freewill in the wrong way they will spend an eternity in hell. What kind of set up is that?
@@helpmaboabbYou can ser that in many religions and you see christianity taking that form sometimes, but christianity is AT HEART the death of that notion. The first thing it says is that we can't achieve God's holiness and perfection alone, precisely because of our narrow mind amd lack of faith in him. We like to do things on our own ways instead of trusting that God's way is the best (God's way is loving Him with our emotions, thoughts and work and loving our neighbor like ourselfs, the second being a direct consequence of the first). Due to our imperfections, God accepted the penalty for our sins on Himself, so we would have a escape goat. Everything we have to do is to go on the road to perfection, knowing that what lack on us will be fullfilled by His sacrifice
The lies from the global brood of vipers are comfortable & the reality of God's truth is inconvenient. Al Gores inconvenient truth. You are not God's. You are not causing these the birthing pains of this the millennium of climate change end times. The mystery of the 7 crossings of our stars milky way is.
This allegory by Plato, is one of the greatest things he ever wrote, definitely one of my favorites, and I've often linked the allegory with my Christian experience, yet John Lennox put it in words I was never able to. God bless John Lennox for his work with the Gospel of Jesus Christ and his apologetics. And thank you sir for this great content. 👍
C S Lewis explains heaven using Plato's experience but with a mirror, and it was the first time in my life I understood that heaven is the realest dimension of reality. That completely changed my perspective in life.
We see in the mirror what our thoughts are. Freud's projection is an attempt to get rid off guilt by projecting it onto the world. The Christ mind sees only innocence.
Wish my brain could wrap around this discussion. Just a bit over my head at times. 😢 I really enjoy listening to Mr Lennox speak. Sometime "I get it."😊 I'll keep reading my Bible... it is a challenge in itself. BUT the Holy Spirit helps. New revelation every day. Thank you for your videos. I'll watch more than once . Texas Nana Psslm 91
Think reading the gospels and asking the holy spirit for help is definitely the way to getting it. Personally think Mark 12:18-34 and Matthew 9:9-13 are really key and helpful. Read'em and think them over. Maybe you'll agree.
The Plato’s Cave allegory illustrates what happens when people are deprived of education. Without knowledge people won’t be able to tell the difference between what is true or false.
@@James-ll3jb Not really Plato’s cave is an allegory about how people’s frame of reference create a limited view of the world. When people change their frame of reference they get a more detailed view of the world.
Subjective idealism, or empirical idealism or immaterialism, is a form of philosophical monism that holds that only minds and mental contents exist. It entails and is generally identified or associated with immaterialism, the doctrine that material things do not exist. Subjective idealism rejects dualism, neutral monism, and materialism; it is the contrary of eliminative materialism, the doctrine that all or some classes of mental phenomena (such as emotions, beliefs, or desires) do not exist, but are sheer illusions. Overview Subjective idealism is a fusion of phenomenalism or empiricism, which confers special status upon the immediately perceived, with idealism, which confers special status upon the mental. Idealism denies the knowability or existence of the non-mental, while phenomenalism serves to restrict the mental to the empirical. Subjective idealism thus identifies its mental reality with the world of ordinary experience, and does not comment on whether this reality is "divine" in some way as pantheism does, nor comment on whether this reality is a fundamentally unified whole as does absolute idealism. This form of idealism is "subjective" not because it denies that there is an objective reality, but because it asserts that this reality is completely dependent upon the minds of the subjects that perceive it. The earliest thinkers identifiable as subjective idealists were certain members of the Yogācāra school of Indian Buddhism, who reduced the world of experience to a stream of subjective perceptions. Subjective idealism made its mark in Europe in the 18th-century writings of George Berkeley, who argued that the idea of mind-independent reality is incoherent, concluding that the world consists of the minds of humans and of God. Subsequent writers have continuously grappled with Berkeley's skeptical arguments. Immanuel Kant responded by rejecting Berkeley's immaterialism and replacing it with transcendental idealism, which views the mind-independent world as existent but incognizable in itself. Since Kant, true immaterialism has remained a rarity, but is survived by partly overlapping movements such as phenomenalism, subjectivism, and perspectivism. History Thinkers such as Plato, Plotinus and Augustine of Hippo anticipated idealism's immaterialistic thesis with their views of the inferior or derivative reality of matter. However, these Platonists did not make Berkeley's turn toward subjectivity. Plato helped anticipate these ideas by creating an analogy about people living in a cave which explained his point of view. His view was that there are different types of reality. He explains this with his cave analogy which contains people tied up only seeing shadows their whole life. Once they go outside, they see a completely different reality, but lose sight of the one they saw before.[1] This sets up the idea of Berkley's theory of immaterialism because it shows how people can be exposed to the same world but still see things differently. This introduces the idea of objective versus subjective which is how Berkeley attempts to prove that matter does not exist. Indeed, Plato rationalistically condemned sense-experience, whereas subjective idealism presupposed empiricism and the irreducible reality of sense data. A more subjectivist methodology could be found in the Pyrrhonists' emphasis on the world of appearance, but their skepticism precluded the drawing of any ontological conclusions from the epistemic primacy of phenomena. The first mature articulations of idealism arise in Yogacarin thinkers such as the 7th-century epistemologist Dharmakīrti, who identified ultimate reality with sense-perception. The most famous proponent of subjective idealism in the Western world was the 18th-century Irish philosopher George Berkeley, whose popularity eclipsed his contemporary and fellow Anglican philosopher Arthur Collier - who perhaps preceded him in a refutation of material existence, or as he says a "denial of an external world" - although Berkeley's term for his theory was immaterialism. From Berkeley's point of view of subjective idealism, the material world does not exist, and the phenomenal world is dependent on humans. Hence the fundamental idea of this philosophical system (as represented by Berkeley or Mach) is that things are complexes of ideas or sensations, and only subjects and objects of perceptions exist. "Esse est percipi" is Berkeley's whole argument summarized into a couple words. It means "to be is to be perceived".[2] This summarized his argument because he based his point around the fact that things exist if they are all understood and seen the same way. As Berkeley wrote: "for the Existence of an Idea consists in being perceived".[3] This would separate everything as objective and subjective. Matter falls into the subjective category because everyone perceives matter differently, which means matter is not real. This loops back to the core of his argument which says that in order for anything to be real, it must be interpreted the same way by everyone. Berkeley believes that all material is a construction by the human mind. According to the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy his argument is: "(1) We perceive ordinary objects (houses, mountains, etc.). (2) We perceive only ideas. Therefore, (3) Ordinary objects are ideas."[4] Berkeley makes such a radical claim that matter does not exist as a reaction to the materialists. He says "if there were external bodies, we couldn’t possibly come to know this; and if there weren’t, we might have the very same reasons to think there were that we have now":[5] "a thinking being might, without the help of external bodies, be affected with the same series of sensations or ideas as you have."[5] Berkeley believes that people cannot know that what they think to be matter is not simply a creation in their mind. People have contested that premise (2) is false, claiming that people don't perceive ideas but instead, "distinguishing two sorts of perception"[6] they perceive objects and then have ideas about them, effectively cutting down the equality. This might seem to obviously be the case, but in fact it is contestable. Many psychologists believe that what people actually perceive are tools, impediments, and threats. The famous gorilla psychological study, where people were asked to watch a video and count the number of basketball passes made, showed that people do not actually see everything in front of them, even a gorilla that marches across a high school gym.[7] Similarly, it is believed that human reaction to snakes is faster than it should physically be if it were consciously driven. Therefore, it is not unfair to say that objects go straight to the mind. Berkeley even pointed out that it is not obvious how motion in the physical world could translate to emotion in the mind. Even the materialists had difficulty explaining this; Locke believed that to explain the transfer from physical object to mental image one must "attribute it wholly to the good pleasure of our Maker."[8] Newton's laws of physics say that all movement comes from the inverse change in another motion, and materialists believe that what humans do is fundamentally move their parts. If so how you explain the correlation between objects existing, and the completely other realm of regular ideas is not obvious. The fact "that the existence of matter does not help to explain the occurrence of our ideas"[6] seems to Berkeley to undermine the reason for believing in matter at all. If the materialists have no way of knowing that matter exists, it seems best to not assume that it exists. According to Berkeley, an object has real being as long as it is perceived by a mind. God, being omniscient, perceives everything perceivable, thus all real beings exist in the mind of God. However, it is also evident that each of us has free will and understanding upon self-reflection, and our senses and ideas suggest that other people also possess these qualities as well. According to Berkeley there is no material universe, in fact he has absolutely no idea what that could possibly mean. To theorize about a universe that is composed of insensible matter is not a sensible thing to do. This matters because there is absolutely no positive account for a material universe, only speculation about things that are by fiat outside of our minds.
This is great. Those in darkness are described as follows: 1st Timothy 6:16-“Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.” John 3:20-“For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.” John 15:18,25-“If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you. But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.”
In some Orthodox churches here in Greece, there are icons of our ancient philosophers who are viewed as used by God to lay the philosophical groundwork for acceptance of Jesus in the Greek speaking East Mediterranean.
Plato's Cave Allegory also explains why many people are entrenched in their political parties and actively (almost violently) resist truths and facts -- even to the point of willingly creating own version of false narratives without skipping a beat.
This overlooks the fact the theists are not born theists. As you may be familiar with the saying, "You must be born again!", the opposite is more likely the case as mere naturalist or materialists are said to need this second birth more than most. It will then be noted conversion to faith in God for many happens later in life after having begun life by default as athiests or agnostics. C.S. Lewis is a good example of this.
@kiwisaram9373 we are born knowing nothing, not in the way that you explain. We learn as we grow and are influenced by our surroundings. Sorry, but I find no meaning in your comment. However, I was making the point that, as usual, Lennox just waffles on using supposition, and all that he said amounts to pure speculation and my explanation is equally valid..
Woow, brother this is so much revealing. The Cave explains alot about how people view the world. Thanks alot for your ministry. Tell Dr. Lennox I love him so much.
Plato in his theory of forms denies the reality of the material world, considering it only an image or copy of the real world. He denies materialism and thinks that there is a bigger world and it relates to mathematics. So Dr. Lennox is very accurate with his analisys in saying that at the very least materialism is exactly the opposite of what plato believed
Heaven will be amazing. No longer will we be limited by the five senses, and we will be aware that this life on earth is death, compared to what is to come in the next. Blesses be Jesus! Free us from the darkness of sin.
Wow thats funny that John Lennox did that comparaison. When i was in philosophy in college, my teacher asked us to do a text about the cave. I did a comparaison with God and human kingdom. My teacher made me fail saying i didnt understand the text. Then i decided to quit the college because i knew i was dealing with a bunch of fools
Hello. I enjoy your channel immensely. Just one suggestion. When listening to a great speaker like John Lennox, I don't want to listen to background music at the same time. It's distracting. Like looking at a Velasquez painting through a screen. The screen only detracts from the masterpiece.
WHAT PLATO REALLY MEANT: the images on the wall are the prisoners reality, a reality that cannot be refuted. as real as the reality that you live today with every waking hour. the prisoner that escapes sees reality as it really is. when he goes back to the cave to explain to the shackled prisoners that their "reality" is just an illusion created by those who wish to control them, they think he is insane. when he offers to release them from their bondage and show them reality for what it really is they become hostile to the point that they will kill him if he tries to take them from their "reality" (shackles). Plato was explaining that people in society live in a false reality in their own bondage created by those who wish to control us and will defend it with their dying breath. as true today as it was 2,500 years ago.
Well stated, crashoppe. Additionally, the human sensory system is designed to perceive only the material world. Through thinking, conceptualizing, and imagining, we can move beyond the limitations of our sensory system and the observable world. The man who is freed and goes out of the cave is no longer bound by his perceptions only and can conceive of something behind or beyond the material and possibly even creating it. The ideal comes into the material. This is the beginning of the freedom human thinking can afford us.
The story brought this verse to mind. Psalm 82:5 KJVS They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course. The whole Psalm- Psalm 82:1-8 KJVS God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods. [2] How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah. [3] Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy. [4] Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked. [5] They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course. [6] I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. [7] But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes. [8] Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.
The true vision of the Christ mind is the rebirth of ourselves as one Spirit in union with God, not the separate identities of bodies seen from the carnal mind. "We are on the earth but not of the earth. Judge not by appearance but judge by righteous judgment." We are created to be creators in the likeness of God. The carnal mind sees sin and guilt of bodies with its punishment and sacrifice. The Christ mind sees wholeness, innocence and healing through forgiveness. "If you had known what these words mean, 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice,' you would not have condemned the innocent."
2 Corinthians 4:3-4 KJVS But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: [4] In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
This is an appropriate scripture indeed, but you should consider using a more modern Bible as the KJV Bible has quite a few errors and can be misleading where they occur.
Listeners should READ Plato's cave allegory. It predates Christianity by more than 2000 years. It deals with the issue of the validity of normal empirical perception in terms of natural conditions, and how easy it is to manipulate perceptions by all sorts of unnatural and supranatural (transcendent) forms, or representations. Plato's warning is to mistrust and question that which cannot be verified through the use of our natural sensory observations, and esp. those "forms" that are conjured up by all sorts of authorities. The latter usually require people to withhold their normal observations and suspend their judgments based on what they observe for themselves. We need to understand that we ourselves create the forms, or realm of Ideas, into which we frame and connect our observations in a meaningful way.
The Republic was written around 375 years before Christ, but at least as long after the Torah which presents the same ideas in the form of the Exodus from bondage in Egypt. So disagree about your predating comment, but agree everyone must read and study Plato, the greatest philosopher ever.
In Plato's cave story, the observers are physically prevented from the full exercise of natural human curiosity. Imagine the situation if, by some degree of effort, they could overcome that prevention.
In a way I could go from a dark Shadows to a Projector seeing movies or live broadcast.... Still not nearly close to what God wants to reveal. One other thought. This reminds me of babel ... When it's gives the reason for confusion of languages
YES! When religoius people step out of their cave and see the world as it really is, they are enlightened. The dark cave is where the universe is percieved only through the filter of religious doma.
YES! When mechanistic/ materialistic people step out of their cave and see the world as it really is, they are enlightened. The dark cave is where the universe is perceived only through the filter of the scientism dogma. See how easy it is to flip that around? There's more to the world than meets the eye, more than human-all-too-human assumptions and human-all-too-human inferences...
@@TorMax9 Ha ha, nice one. Yes, more to the world than religious dogma allows. Evolution, the age of the Universe and the Earth, moral question about homosexuality and trans people, and all the many many bizarre passages in the Bible.
Well done, Wisdom dude. At the end, you’ve managed to "construct" a link between your dear religion, and…Plato. Bravo..! Now expect a Nobel for your "epic" achievement.😅😅😅
You could just aswell equate the cave to religion, and the atheist being the one who can only see the truth, same thing, also fits. It's because plato's cave has nothing to do with any particular view, just an example of showing how some people can be stuck in ideas and not open to new info, because in that example, they literally can't see anything else.
Its like the story of the two fish swimming along together. They try to avoid the swan who dips its long neck under the water. One day the swan says to the two fish, 'hi guys, how's the water today'. The fish dont answer and as they are swimming away, they look at each other and say, "what the hell is water?".
CATHEDRAL Great doors shut away the loud and dusty street; In cool and silence I take my rest just where a shaft of colored sunlight falls through high stained glass; And I must wonder if old Plato with his cave had it all quite right.
@-DAILY_DOSE_OF_WISDOM_ I don't know how to use Telegram. My electronics are as antiquated as I am. I wrote the little poem myself if that is what you want to know.
“It would seem that Our Lord finds our desires not too strong, but too weak. We are half-hearted creatures, fooling about with drink and sex and ambition when infinite joy is offered us, like an ignorant child who wants to go on making mud pies in a slum because he cannot imagine what is meant by the offer of a holiday at the sea. We are far too easily pleased.” C.S. Lewis, The Weight of Glory
We only ever see and experience "in manifest form" the contents of our own conditioning. This is also known as the "glass darkly" in scripture. The shadows on the wall represent all the stories passed down from generation and then how we only see the world from those stories. Fear, judgment, separation... and the list goes on. When one breaks free from their conditioned structures they will come to know that they create their reality. That is the GOOD NEWS. "YOU CREATE OUR OWN REALITY". You are either made or unmade in your own image (imagination), and then experience your imaginings made manifest. Everyone will ridicule you because they believe that we are creatures of circumstance, that we don't hold any power over ourselves or the collective. God is I am, and if you continue to negate that you will remain prisoner. A classic case of playing cat and mouse with yourself. I am hath sent you to liberate you from your straight jacket. I am is your awareness of being. I am, is the way, truth and the life. Not Jesus. If you point outside of yourself you've gone into separation. Claim it NOW!
Plato’s cave relates more to quantum science, long was known that light shines constant... then smart people went into a cave to study how light works... And they came to the concluding that light was either a particle or a wave... there is no 1 unit of light...and neither does the sun flicker outside ... So no particle no wave... just constant light at a relative speed XD
Thank you for honoring my freedom of speech. If there really is a god in existence … and you just happen to misquote him … which in turn causes extensive emotional and physical harm and even death by suicide or murder to other people in the process ... what do you believe (concerning judgment in the hereafter) … should be your soul’s penalty? I would appreciate your response concerning this question.
Plato's allegory has to do with epistemic possibility. In other words, we can be justified in claiming things dont exist even if they do infact exist. The story is dysanalogous because both people used empirical evidence to prove what exists
Plato is referring to Socrates, who was also killed. Socrates extolled rational enquiry above all (not in the materialistic atheistic sense of modern people who appeal to "rationality" of course, but also not in a Christian sense), to the point that he was accused of atheism and corrupting the young. He was also not martyrised: he was given the chance to be exiled, but he preferred death to the incoherence of abandoning his city-state. The myth of the cave is parallel to the image of the line: you have a line with a section for "opinion" and one for "knowledge", and faith/trust (pistis) is firmly in the "opinion" section. Also people are not in the cave and they are not embodied and corruptible because of some original sin, in Plato. Socrates was a human, the freed prisoner is a human, the ascent is difficult and confusing. The message is about human intellectual, moral and spiritual ascent, but it has nothing to do with a presumed self-revelation of the transcendent realm. It's about what we humans can do to ascend as much as we can, and it's full of doubts and tentative hypotheses.
For us humans to ascend intellectually and morally and spiritually, there has to be a realm for us to ascend to. That realm must not be hidden to us; it must be revealed. For us to climb a mountain, there must be a mountain already there to climb.
@@TorMax9To your first assertion, yes I agree, and Plato would agree. That's why I said the meaning was not atheistic. To your second assertion, why should the realm of truth not be hidden? A lot of truth has been hidden to us for millenia. It takes effort to discover it. Also "revelation" is ambiguous. The message of the Bible surely is. If you don't go by reason, you've got to go by trust. Either way that's you as a human having make the choice based on "something" from the visible world. So the "hiddenness" remains.
Bill of rights and constitution was so directly inspired by finally closing the theological ,philosophical loopholes on this with the mathatical classical observer that absolutely freed the western immigration and it all had a profound influence our founding . That eternal faith and reality would bring the ben Franklin systems to the entrance and go into work and measure the shadows on the wall, visit with the eastern philosophers who untied themselves but when it's time to go home and come back to reality follow the bread crumbs ,God's voice, family friends loved ones lol Self awareness and the phenotypical transfer of data . Salvation of Jesus unification of tripartite nature, the individual who must navigate the celestial objective and subjective space between of nature itself.
@-DAILY_DOSE_OF_WISDOM_ sure but really I can only mimic works that has direct sources but are in the shadows of founders biography, classical American denominations that house them or just Ontologically sit on the mosaic/ reductionism ,archeology that was known or discovered in various avenued. We just spent 90 years to re learn or confirm it in academics and different avenues more of less. A classical American orientation where they didn't just go to church but knew literally through discovery. Newton, baun cause and effort. Humes russau most of these are not enemies they inspired more devotion than the old church new
The cave shows your ability to be wrong, that's kinda it. For instance, here is a retelling: Watch the video first. Three prisoners are trapped inan cave and can't move. They can only see shadows on the wall. To them, this is all there is. However, a prisoner gets released and discovers...! absolutely no light behind them at all. There is nothing casting a shadow, and he decides to inspect the wall, in which he finds, aha, it's a screen! A screen, much like the one on your phone, depicting shadows displayed on a wall. "But wait!" Says another prisoner. It's no illusion, you are just one of the shadows in the wall! And you're a green shadow! For context, the above prisoner is experiencing a (pretty bad) hallucination. Also; the third prisoner has been dead for 3 days. Sees no shadows at all. We just never noticed that because it never crossed our mind that that might matter here. Our obsession over the shadows caused us to not even question it. This kind of analogy really just exists to show that you can be wrong- importantly, that applies to anyone. You really don't know what's "real" until you're finally able to make sense of it, and even so, that's only reality as you best know it. The way I've put it here exaggerates it even further to show what it actually demonstrates.
CHOOSE SPIRITUALITY IF YOU WANT THE DIVINE AND THE FREEDOM THIS BRINGS WITHOUT SPIRITUAL AND RELIGIOUS COERCION CHOOSE NON-DOGMATIC THEISM IF YOU WANT FAITH AND COMMUNITY WITHOUT SPIRITUAL AND RELIGIOUS COERCION WHERE DO YOU THINK THIS VIDEO SITS ON THE DOGMATIC THEISTIC vs NON-DOGMATIC THEISTIC, FREEDOM OF SPIRITUALITY vs SPIRITUAL AND RELIGIOUS COERCION SPECTRUM?
"You don't know what you don't know." Socrates unless you have eyes to see or ears to hear the holy spirit as given to us in the new testament covenant with God our father. Welcome to the millennial days of Lot's fire/lightning/EMP's & Noah's east to west tsunami's due to the mystery of the 7 crossings of our stars milky way.
* is my name written in the book of life? * If I were to die today will I go to heaven or to hell? * Have all of my sins been forgiven? * Am I in a right relationship with God? * Have I been saved from my sin and the eternal consequences of sin? * Am I spiritually satisfied? * Am I living in victory over sin, the world, the devil? * Have I come to know God’s love for me? * Have I been delivered from darkness? * Have I received the Holy Spirit? * Have I been born again spiritually? * Do I have fellowship with Christ? * Do I come boldly before God in prayer? * Am I cured of all of my anxiety? * Am I at peace with God? * Do I have inexpressible joy in my heart? * Am I longing for my future home in heaven? If yes, then you’ll be spending your eternity with the Lord. If no, then you should be crying out to God to save you.
Allow me to rephrase that for you: "Please God don't let me die. Not me, surely not me. I'm too special to die. Spare me the inevitable fate of every living organism, because I'm desperate and overwhelmed by fear of death".
@@donthesitatebegin9283 the one who feels that is special is you, no humility in your message. But I pity you since you for sure are just like Mark Twain believing something like "why should I fear death since I was dead for billions of years".
OPPOSED and AGAINST the CREATOR and JESUS CHRIST Both Christians and Atheists are - 1. opposed and against the Sovereignty, will, and commandments of the Creator 2. opposed and against the authority and teachings of Jesus Christ about the "Kingdom of God" and "Resurrection of the Dead". WORSHIPPERS of the CREATOR and FOLLOWERS of JESUS CHRIST Worshippers of the Creator are - 1. opposed and against the LIE and false claim of Atheists that the Creator is worthless and undeserving to be honored and respected as the Most High and Sovereign God 2. opposed and against the LIES and Unbiblical teachings and doctrines of the Christians about "Trinity", "heaven and hellfire", "Armageddon", and "rapture". Worshippers of the Creator who willingly submit to the authority of Jesus Christ and believe his teachings about the "Kingdom of God" and "Resurrection of the Dead" as written in Matthew 28: 18, Luke 4: 43, and John 11: 25, 26 will definitely be honored and rewarded with ETERNAL LIFE and existence without sufferings, pains, griefs, sickness, and death on a safe and peaceful earth without liars, deceivers, perverts, traitors, slanderers, and murderers as written in Revelation 21: 3, 4, 8. All human beings will just return to dusts after their deaths just like the animals as written in Ecclesiastes 3: 19, 20 ; 9: 5, 6 but the Creator will not let his loving, kind, and respectful Worshippers who died recently and thousands of years ago like Abel, Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Job, Naomi, Ruth, King David, Jesus Christ's disciples and followers, and many others to remain as worthless dusts forever, instead, in the right and proper time, he will let Jesus Christ RESURRECT them back to life so they can all happily, peacefully, and abundantly live and exist on earth forever as submissive and obedient subjects of the "KINGDOM of GOD" or His Kingdom and fully enjoy his and his Christ's eternal love, kindness, goodness, compassions, generosities, favors, and blessings for eternity under the loving and kind rulership, guidance, and protection of Jesus Christ as his Chosen King and Ruler of the heavens and the earth.
Follow JESUS. 1. NAME WRITTEN IN HEAVEN And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. - Revelation 20:15 2. FORGIVENESS OF SIN In Him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace. - Ephesians 1:7 3. RECONCILIATION TO GOD (restored to a right relationship) For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. - Romans 5:10 4. JUSTIFICATION (declared righteous) Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. - Romans 5:9 5. SALVATION (from hell, sin) Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost. - 1 Timothy 1:15 6. SPIRITUAL SATISFACTION Jesus stood up and cried out, "If anyone thirsts, let him come to me and drink! - John 7:37 7. VICTORY (over sin, the world, the devil) But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. - 1 Corinthians 15:57 8. GRACE You then, my child, be strengthened by the grace that is in Christ Jesus. - 2 Timothy 2:1 9. THE LOVE OF GOD So we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and whoever abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him. - 1 John 4:16 10. SPIRITUAL SECURITY My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. - John 10:27-28 11. DELIVERANCE FROM DARKNESS He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son. - Colossians 1:13 12. LIGHT FROM GOD Jesus spoke to them, saying, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life." - John 8:12 13. DEATH TO SIN He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed. - 1 Peter 2:24 14. THE HOLY SPIRIT In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit - Ephesians 1:13 15. SPIRITUAL BIRTH Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead. - 1 Peter 1:3 16. ADOPTION INTO GOD’S FAMILY He predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will. - Ephesians 1:5 17. FELLOWSHIP WITH CHRIST God is faithful, by whom you were called into the fellowship of his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord. - 1 Corinthians 1:9 18. PROMISE OF GLORIFICATION When Christ who is your life appears, then you also will appear with him in glory. - Colossians 3:4 19. ACCESS TO GOD IN PRAYER For through Christ we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. - Ephesians 2:18 20. CURE FOR ANXIETY "Let not your hearts be troubled. Believe in God; believe also in me. - John 14:1 21. NEW CREATION Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. - 2 Corinthians 5:17 22. ETERNAL RICHES so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. - Ephesians 2:7 23. SPIRITUAL POWER AND STRENGTH that according to the riches of his glory he may grant you to be strengthened with power through his Spirit in your inner being. - Ephesians 3:16 24. FELLOWSHIP WITH BELIEVERS But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. - 1 John 1:7 25. MORE THAN CONQUERORS in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. - Romans 8:37 26. JOY Though you have not seen him, you love him. Though you do not now see him, you believe in him and rejoice with joy that is inexpressible and filled with glory, - 1 Peter 1:8 27. PEACE WITH GOD Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. - Romans 5:1 28. GOD’S WISDOM And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption. - 1 Corinthians 1:30 29. HOME IN HEAVEN But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ. - Philippians 3:20 30. PROMISES OF GOD For all the promises of God find their Yes in Christ. That is why it is through him that we utter our Amen to God for his glory. - 2 Corinthians 1:20 31. CHRIST’S HEAVENLY INTERVENTION Consequently, he is able to save to the uttermost those who draw near to God through him, since he always lives to make intercession for them. - Hebrews 7:25
It's open to personal interpretation. For example, you could say the cave is ignorance in that with religious explanations you are denying and limiting your ability to comprehend as much as possible the natural world and what we really are within it. From this point of view, things like the bible stories are the cave shadows and scientific progress and enlightenment is leaving the cave.
Science only operates in our own limitatations and only deals with what we think we see or are presently capable of seeing, whereas biblical revelation comes from beyond our material perspective, so maybe not!
@@kiwisaram9373 Theism is a reflection of our instinct to look for agency in the world. Religion is a psychological mirage, literally a shadow on a wall. See, it's just a matter of perspective.
@@kiwisaram9373 Theism is based on the notion the human beings look for agency....when there may be none. Religion is a psychological phenomenon who's claims cannot be tested to be apart from imagination. Therefore, it fits the criteria of being the illusory shadow on the cave wall. See, it's a matter of perspective.
@@kiwisaram9373 Theism is based on the notion the human beings look for agency....when there may be none. Religion is a psychological phenomenon who's claims cannot be tested to be apart from imagination. Therefore, it fits the criteria of being the illusory shadow on the cave wall. See, it's a matter of perspective.
This guy has generalised Plato's theories to the point where its meaningless. The big link between his (Plato) theories and Christianity was Plato's form of "the Good" which Christian theologists translated into "God" , being the perfect form for "the good".
Unsurprisingly, christianity fails plato's cave. This is the cave allegory: "n the allegory "The Cave", Plato describes a group of people who have lived chained to the wall of a cave all their lives, facing a blank wall. The people watch shadows projected on the wall from objects passing in front of a fire behind them and give names to these shadows. The shadows are the prisoners' reality, but are not accurate representations of the real world. The shadows represent the fragment of reality that we can normally perceive through our senses, while the objects under the sun represent the true forms of objects that we can only perceive through reason. Three higher levels exist: the natural sciences; mathematics, geometry, and deductive logic; and the theory of forms." - wikipedia Theists, including Christians can't even agree on their shadows, each making up something different, so they don't even share that "reality". Each claims their reality is the only one, and yet not a single one can show this to be the case. They are chained by their religions, based on what ignorant people invented, and each is sure that the shadows are what they claim from their imaginary friends. Happily, no one needs their religions, and we can turn and see the reality.
“Christianity fails Plato’s cave” “Chained by their religions” “What ignorant people invented” “Imaginary friends” “Can’t even agree on their shadows” SMOKESCREEN!! And classic CRINGE anti religious hate propaganda in full effect!! Also look up strawman argument!! The only “CHAINS” in the context of Plato’s cave here are the CHAINS and SHADOWS of a strictly reductive materialism, atheism or philosophical naturalism. Nice try at mischaracterising all of religious expression using Plato’s cave which is actually a parable about transcendence. Transcendence and the golden rule is something that most religions share LOL!! Are you for real? By the way, you just totally and utterly refuted yourself!! According to the famous author and Oxford professor C. S. Lewis….. “If you are a Christian you do not have to believe that all the other religions are simply wrong all through. If you are an atheist you have to believe that the main point in all the religions of the whole world is simply one huge mistake” (C.S. Lewis). The irony and the absurdity is that atheists and so called left wing “LIBERALS” really fancy themselves as being more “FREETHINKING”, that is free from Plato’s cave!! But as C.S. Lewis points out, in reality, if you are Christian or believe in any form of transcendence you are actually more liberal and more [freethinking] than the militant atheist trapped in PLATO’S CAVE by their own arrogance and scientism and materialism of the gaps fallacies. As C.S. Lewis helpfully points out, in reality, if you are Christian or believe in any form of transcendence from materialism and scientism of the gaps you are actually [more liberal] and [more freethinking] than the militant atheist as you are free to have lots of different denominations and lots of free discussions about the finer points without being cancelled and losing your livelihood or having your family threatened. Equally, you are free to think that a transcendental outlook and that all religions, even the strangest ones including pagan religions contain some elements of truth and a genuine attempt to escape PLATO’S CAVE and ground metaphysics, that is a genuine attempt to ground Truth and value. Sorry but the fact is that all this talk of “deconstruction”, “destruction”, “burn it all down!” History has heard all this before, of course, and knows where it leads - The three largest Communist regimes in history demonstrates that it leads to HELL on Earth and not a human Utopia!! There is another way. We can leave the Cave. We do not have to be prisoners of materialism. There is a world out there, full of human experiences and achievements stretching over many centuries - to the Romans, the Greeks, and far beyond. Reality is wide and beautiful and, despite all our human faults and frailties, fundamentally there is a ground of goodness and truth in the final analysis. Come and climb out of your cave look on the light of day.
“Christianity fails Plato’s cave” “Chained by their religions” “What ignorant people invented” “Imaginary friends” “Can’t even agree on their shadows” SMOKESCREEN!! And classic CRINGE anti religious hate propaganda in full effect!! Also look up strawman argument!! The only “CHAINS” in the context of Plato’s cave here are the CHAINS and SHADOWS of a strictly reductive materialism, atheism or philosophical naturalism. Nice try at mischaracterising all of religious expression using Plato’s cave which is actually a parable about transcendence. Transcendence and the golden rule is something that most religions share LOL!! Are you for real? By the way, you just totally and utterly refuted yourself!! According to the famous author and Oxford professor C. S. Lewis….. “If you are a Christian you do not have to believe that all the other religions are simply wrong all through. If you are an atheist you have to believe that the main point in all the religions of the whole world is simply one huge mistake” (C.S. Lewis). The irony and the absurdity is that atheists and so called left wing “LIBERALS” really fancy themselves as being more “FREETHINKING”, that is free from Plato’s cave!! But as C.S. Lewis points out, in reality, if you are Christian or believe in any form of transcendence you are actually more liberal and more [freethinking] than the militant atheist trapped in PLATO’S CAVE by their own arrogance and scientism and materialism of the gaps fallacies. As C.S. Lewis helpfully points out, in reality, if you are Christian or believe in any form of transcendence from materialism and scientism of the gaps you are actually [more liberal] and [more freethinking] than the militant atheist as you are free to have lots of different denominations and lots of free discussions about the finer points without being cancelled and losing your livelihood or having your family threatened. Equally, you are free to think that a transcendental outlook and that all religions, even the strangest ones including pagan religions contain some elements of truth and a genuine attempt to escape PLATO’S CAVE and ground metaphysics, that is a genuine attempt to ground Truth and value. Sorry but the fact is that all this talk of “deconstruction”, “destruction”, “burn it all down!” History has heard all this before, of course, and knows where it leads - The three largest Communist regimes in history demonstrates that it leads to HELL on Earth and not a human Utopia!! There is another way. We can leave the Cave. We do not have to be prisoners of materialism. There is a world out there, full of human experiences and achievements stretching over many centuries - to the Romans, the Greeks, and far beyond. Reality is wide and beautiful and, despite all our human faults and frailties, fundamentally there is a ground of goodness and truth in the final analysis. Come and climb out of your cave look on the light of day.
“Christianity fails Plato’s cave” “Chained by their religions” “What ignorant people invented” “Imaginary friends” “Can’t even agree on their shadows” SMOKESCREEN!! And classic CRINGE anti religious hate propaganda in full effect!! Also look up strawman argument!! The only “CHAINS” in the context of Plato’s cave here are the CHAINS and SHADOWS of a strictly reductive materialism, atheism or philosophical naturalism. Nice try at mischaracterising all of religious expression using Plato’s cave which is actually a parable about transcendence. Transcendence and the golden rule is something that most religions share LOL!! Are you for real? By the way, you just totally and utterly refuted yourself!! According to the famous author and Oxford professor C. S. Lewis….. “If you are a Christian you do not have to believe that all the other religions are simply wrong all through. If you are an atheist you have to believe that the main point in all the religions of the whole world is simply one huge mistake” (C.S. Lewis). The irony and the absurdity is that atheists and so called left wing “LIBERALS” really fancy themselves as being more “FREETHINKING”, that is free from Plato’s cave!! But as C.S. Lewis points out, in reality, if you are Christian or believe in any form of transcendence you are actually more liberal and more [freethinking] than the militant atheist trapped in PLATO’S CAVE by their own arrogance and scientism and materialism of the gaps fallacies. As C.S. Lewis helpfully points out, in reality, if you are Christian or believe in any form of transcendence from materialism and scientism of the gaps you are actually [more liberal] and [more freethinking] than the militant atheist as you are free to have lots of different denominations and lots of free discussions about the finer points without being cancelled and losing your livelihood or having your family threatened. Equally, you are free to think that a transcendental outlook and that all religions, even the strangest ones including pagan religions contain some elements of truth and a genuine attempt to escape PLATO’S CAVE and ground metaphysics, that is a genuine attempt to ground Truth and value. Sorry but the fact is that all this talk of “deconstruction”, “destruction”, “burn it all down!” History has heard all this before, of course, and knows where it leads - The three largest Communist regimes in history demonstrates that it leads to HELL on Earth and not a human Utopia!! There is another way. We can leave the Cave. We do not have to be prisoners of materialism. There is a world out there, full of human experiences and achievements stretching over many centuries - to the Romans, the Greeks, and far beyond. Reality is wide and beautiful and, despite all our human faults and frailties, fundamentally there is a ground of goodness and truth in the final analysis. Come and climb out of your cave look on the light of day.
It is God who puts humans in the materialistic cave. He puts them in the dark cave so they can see the bright light??? God forces people to take the longest and most painful path so that they can distinguish that the material and dark world, in which he places them, is dark and painful??? Lennox looks for excuses but the few that remain at the bottom of the jar are already stale.
The letter "J" is ~500 years old, why was it and is still being used for The Name Of THE CHRIST, In HIS WORD - EVEN IN THE BOOK OF REVELATION WHERE THERE IS A MOST SPECIFIC AND STARK WARNING? I understand 'Je' means Earth and 'sus' is Latin for "pig", and the pagan name Zeus was used in many name-endings like Tarsus, Pegasus, Dionysus, Parnassus, etc., to honor Zeus phonetically. "SEE" ISAIAH 7:14 & MATTHEW 1:23 FOR THE MESSIAH'S REAL NAME = "You SHALL CALL HIS NAME IMMANNUEL, (MEANING GOD IS WITH Us)." They Even Knew What HIS NAME WOULD BE. The ancient Israelites were Very Much 'into' names and their meanings, they would know exactly what "THE NAME IMMANUEL/EMMANUEL WAS SAYING: "...TO ALL WHO DID RECEIVE HIM (THE PROMISED LAMB WHO WOULD BARE THE SINS OF Humanity, So we Wouldn't Have To, the ancient Israelites TEMPLE SERVICES POINTED TO - To Those Who Believe IN HIS NAME (IN WHAT HIS NAME WAS/IS SAYING - "GOD (Our CREATOR/SAVIOUR) IS WITH Us"), HE GAVE THE RIGHT TO BECOME Children OF GOD." - John 1:11-13; 1 Corinthians 1:30; REVELATION 12:17; 22:17; John 3:16; 17:11; JOHN 14:10,11 We Know Satan (REVELATION 12:9), Without Hesitation Would Use "his seed" To "Blaspheme" GOD'S NAME - Genesis 3:15; Hebrews 1:7; Ephesians 2:1,2; John 8:44. No Worries, GOD SIMPLY FIXED THAT problem BRILLANTLY, AS ALWAYS: "The One Who Overcomes I WILL MAKE A Pillar In THE TEMPLE OF MY GOD, AND He WILL NEVER AGAIN LEAVE IT. Upon Him I WILL WRITE THE NAME OF MY GOD, AND THE NAME OF THE CITY OF MY GOD (THE NEW JERUSALEM) THAT COMES DOWN OUT OF HEAVEN FROM MY GOD, AND MY NEW NAME." REVELATION 3:12; 19:12. Be Spiritually Ready For Coming Events - If you have ANY 'making things Right' to "Do" with Anyone, "Do" So ASAP IF At All Possible, we're Not Promised to survive ANY OF THE EVENTS OF THE GREAT TRIBULATION, or the next moment - THEN THE JUDGMENT (HEBREWS 9:27; REVELATON 22:12). REGARDING RESTITUTION: GOD'S JUSTICE DEMANDS FULL RESTITUTION. MATTHEW 5:24 Wrongs Will Be Made Right (RESTITUTION) Either Voluntarily OR Involuntarily BY DIVINE EXTRACTION. If RESTITUTION Is Made Voluntarily Out Of Genuine Sorrow For Your SIN (1 JOHN 3:4 = RESPECT FOR GOD AND WHO HE ETERNALLY IS 7 REPSECT FOR EACH Other - HEBREWS ) Against Another, You Will Be BLESSESD. IF RESTITUTION HAS TO BE EXTRACTED FROM you At THE END, Then you Are Under TTHE CURSE Of Sin Because you Are Defiant About Remaining in Rebellion. Because wicked people have no intention of making RESTITUTION, EVERY Suffering they Inflicted or Imposed upon others has to be Extracted From their flesh by Fire - Note LUKE 12:5; REVELATION 20:7-15 = THE SECOND RESURRECTION AND THE SECOND DEATH. JOHN 3:16; MALACHI 4:3... ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Om4NmC0ldPM.html
Sounds familiar I've finally realized what Calvinism is about, its about defending Calvinism not the Bible. You have to follow their thought process to understand what they believe. If you just read the Bible you never will. It's like going down the rabbit hole, theology in a tube. You can't argue with them, because they can't see out of their hole. The Bible is a Narrative, God's Story, from Genesis all the way through to Revelation. We have an invitation to be part of it. Calvinism is a usurper that tries to impose it's own ideas on to the message, completely ignoring the story.
2:06 what's interesting is that every perspective is going to see their perspective as being what's outside of the cave and everyone else is just inside of the cave looking at a wall full of shadows. The Christian is going to say that the atheist is just blind to the reality of the transcendence of God. The atheist is going to say that the Christian is just blind to the reality of the real world. Every religion is going to say that every other religion is blind to the actual form of God. While this is an interesting thought experiment It actually doesn't go to progress any worldview at all.
the real question is why do you need to connect plato to christianity? what is missing in scripture? what wisdom does this pagan have that scripture lacks?
this hijacking of Plato is just shameful, as well as a display of your fundamental misunderstanding of the allegory. The point is to seek the truth and not settle for an assumption based on intuition, you literally do the opposite of that in every single video and argument you endorse. Plato was telling you to question things and accept where the evidence (all of it) leads, not blindly, and lazily accept the easy answer.... as you continually do.
“The Final Theory: Rethinking Our Scientific Legacy “, Mark McCutcheon for proper physics,I.e. the END of Standard Theory/Model- “shadows.” Can you or your guest “handle the truth “? NO. Laugh!
Contrary to this unsustainable rubbish, Plato's cave applies vastly more effectively to Lennox and his Christianity. The explanation is supposed to infer non Christians are the people in the cave and the Christian is the person who has gone into the daylight and had a revelation. On their return they are unable to pass the revelation on as the cave people (atheists) refuse to accept the revelation. But lets take a walk into actual reality and say that, as in, say, J Lennox case he has been in the cave of Christianity for over 75 years. Nothing has changed in that cave, no dose of reality, no scientific revelation. The world of revelation up top escapes him and regardless of who comes from the surface he clings onto his New Testament and claims it is the only truth. (It's not being renewed or updated, nothing is added, no proof or evidence is being found [the reverse], and all he sees and will ever see is "shadows on the wall"). One of the revelations available to the person on the surface is there is no New Testament, it was made up. The books key and fundamental to the New Testament and the Christian faith have no originals and no copies, no evidence any of ever being written and nothing provable regarding any Jesus or any disciple because, repeat, nothing was ever actually written, there's no records backing up the most important sections of the New Testament. And this is the direct proof of the main repository of the historical records, the Vatican. You can add to this an overwhelming amount of fact (e.g. evolution) and theory pointing towards no requirement for a god. I have written direct irrefutable and undeniable proof, in the last day to professor Lennox via more than one site (and any number of times previously including directly to his own site) that HIS claimed god does not exist. When I wrote the undeniable proof his god doesn't exist directly to his site, did professor Lennox come out in his gods defence? No, because he can only sell his antique and easily defeated cave set of responses ignoring real world truth, not disprove the truth. Has any light shone in the cave? No, none whatsoever. Will any light ever shine in the cave? No. I guess Plato got it right.
If a scientist is asked the question, "Do you believe the universe was created," and the scientist answers "Yes," that is not science. That is religion. The bible is a book of mythical tales concerning the supernatural. Science is the study of all things natural.
@@kiwisaram9373 Because I'm not in a cave, bound by the constraints of Christianity, and the so-called "demand of Christ that you must be born again" is just weird, cartoon-like thinking. You should throw-off the chains that enslave you and liberate yourself from Magical-thinking.
The theology of the time believed the Earth was the center of the universe and that everything rotated around the Earth. The Latin word Universum from which we get universe means rotate into one because they believed the universe rotated and the Earth was stationary.
@@reviewspiteras sorry mate it was. church history vol 1 church arrested Galileo for finding the opposite of what the bible teaches ' earth a flat circle. does not move. sun orbits the earth. earth 6k yrs young ' opposite of science and what the quran teaches quran ' earth spherical moves in orbit. Big Bang of creation universe expanding. man created in stages from the earth/evolution. noah floods regional ' muslim since 2002
Now, Lennox only needs to leave his cave of Christianity, where the shadows show him only one god, and embrace the much larger, richer, and more complex world of him Hinduism, with lots and lots of gods!! I'll say it again: it's not your belief that bothers me... What's more irksome is your inconsistent and hypocritical reasoning to justify your beliefs
That is the problem with Christianity if you are going to believe in one God why not many Gods? Then the Christian arguments would at least be consistent.
It sounds like you're annoyed at Lennox's reason for his belief but his belief does not bother you. It is good that it irks you. It shows that you see christians are just like anyone else when it comes to not being perfect, but the God that they believe in isn't a hypocrite nor inconsistent.
@@raytothet7665 My claim is that Lennox' claim is equivalent to any person of any faith saying that any faith other than their own is simply Plato's shadows on the wall. Lennox has no special access to this argument... What proof do you require?
