How Poorly Trained is the Chinese Air Force? (Long Format). 

This is just typical China 1) identify problem 2) have someone at the top decide that the problem is important 3) go all in into solving the problem. Having foreign consultants is so obvious that I'm honestly surprised that people did not find out about it sooner.

Well, looks like China doesn't underestimate their "enemies" and is willing to learn from them, literally. It makes them look like they have less ego and are more mature decision making, I think they're serious about their military.

The British pilot consultants could also be gathering information about the state of China's Air Force to share with British intel.

The PLAAF is now using AI to train their pilots as well - they are making their pilots fight against simulated AI enemies that quickly learn and adapt to their tactics, and they are also using AI to assist pilots in their decision making.

Awesome video, thanks!

Sun Tze says : "Know your enemy."

The chinese are always been pragmatic, absordable and adoptable from any circustances. And they also are fast to learn, because they are enthusiastic to learn. Just look at how they are managed to handle well the Western's musical intruments and technologies.

Thanks for your great work.

Great work sir!

i love this channel

Great video. Very informative.

A former USMC pilot, now an Australian citizen, was arrested at the request of the American govt. For training enemy pilots (though the charges are actually sealed) and they will be seeking his extradition.

since it is very little information available about the inside of the chinse airforce, i have very much enjoyed the exposure of it you did in your video, thank you.

Western military has never never had to deal with another equally well equipped and trained enemy. Shooting missiles at camel herders or vastly inferior technology doesn't count for much

One simple fact, since 2013, when PLA set up ADIZ on EAST China Sea, PLAAF are facing US, JASDF, ROCAF every day. At the first two years, Japanese handled easily, but not the case anymore. Since 2018, JASDF gave up their practice of “fly 2 F15J to meet every PLAAF fighter jet”. And the ROC stop sending their jet to meet PLAAF a crossed median line since 2020. PLAAF have wore out the latter two, that is why so many crashes from the JASDF and ROCAF.

Finest dad humor on RU-vid. Also great analysis, to be honest 😁

They’re not untrained as the title id suggesting , they just wanna learn the western tactics. Pretty smart if you ask me . They put their egos aside in the name of understanding a potential enemy’s ways

You have to remember though in Falcon Strike 2015 PAF were using J11A which is essentially indigenously produced Su27SK with N001 radar and R27 missile. I think the result is both pilot training and equipment. It is interesting that the results of subsequent Falcon Strike exercises were never made open or at least I cannot see anywhere mentioning the result

Bro, US professors wrote the textbook on highway design; but look at China now. Not only have Chinese engineers filtered & absorbed/ put into practice best practice Highway design, but improved upon design. ditto w/ Construction Management, Obama was envious Chinese building contractors were able to build Tianjin Convention Centre in record time. Barack Hussein quipped: that used to be us (USA)

Several European countries are having problems with keeping active service pilots due to wages and/or conditions being uncompetitive with civilian careers. Even in such situations I could hardly blame the pilots going for a short term consultation job that pays really well towards their retirement. If the military can't manage making the personnel wanting to stay, it's hardly fair to put any hard limits on their civilian career.

You forgot to mention that Chinese do training with Pakistan air force who also have trained and worked with western air forces since long. There is reason why US have put restrictions of use of PAF F-16 in training with Chinese air force, even no Chinese made equipment is allowed where latest PAF F-16bloc-50/52s are deployed.

Regardless of capability improvement, tactics of your near peer adversary getting a 1st person account would be invaluable in countering their offensive capability.

Can you make a video where you discuss the helmets of the PLAF pilots

outstanding review of wha is known about plaaf training and development of training (pretty sure there hsn't been a similar review out there, so far) very inightful and the level of research is appreciated. on point about the plaaf being just an arm of the ground fores tradiionally. the pla retain politiical dominance but cmc and senior military leadership have no choice but to acknowledge that plaaf and plan will be the major players in a future conflcit witth amerca. so, budget goes to plaaf (and plan) but the pla retain the ir traditional political infuence for obvious reasons. as an aside, it would be interedting to analyse the represenation of the different service arms in the cmc and standing committee.

PLAAF also does yearly shaheen exercises with PAF

meanwhile, Saudi Arabia hires US Naval Admirals and US Military 4-star Generals as military consultants what's the fuss?! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ yup. nothing wrong with freelancing or moonlighting as military specialists for foreign countries everybody does it! it's not a big deal!

As usual, the British government rushes to block the stable door, after the horse has bolted.

10:32 "Car Hairdressing" is probably a mistranslation for a car wash, body shop or detailing shop.

The PLA is leaning on years of preparatory schooling and simulator training to bring up the overall skill levels of large numbers of pilots with a minimum amount of expensive time in the air.

The Chinese want to learn from the experience of foreign ex-military personnel and benchmark against their own training and operational methodologies. Nothing out of the ordinary. Also, I seriously doubt the Chinese would let these foreign consultants anywhere near their top of the line aircrafts.

Very nice video. Much thanks. So the concept of putting together various subsystems available in civil and open market for the development of military equipment is kind of employed here too by China. There is no espionage here just that China rightly realised that their training methodologies are not up to par. and looked for suitable trained people who could add value and look at things with a different perspective. Logistics chain management, equipment readiness, Turn over time, Sortie times, ground crew etc etc etc. Goal efficiency its more than just teaching someone One Circle and Two Circle merge , rolling scissors.

How are aircraft training done? Like you have NERF missiles too which hit the jets but don't do any damage?

Recent western combat experience provides an advantage which influences the training environment.

I have been following mil tech for decades and read and heard zillions of times about how centralised pilot control is ineffective. It was the standard catchphrase of the Cold War - "The Soviets have more aircraft, some of which have technology similar to the West, but their training and doctrine is worse.". Okay then, so why would any rational nation continue to use such ineffective training and doctrine ? And please, no pat answer about how "they are just stupid" or "political considerations". There must be some valid military reason for doing it. My guess is that training costs money and a centralised C3 system works perfectly well when conflicts are limited in scope and the engagements are small and controlled. This works perfectly for an air force that is starved of funds and needs to maximise the number of men and machines to meet these limited wars, but fails when a war goes "hot" and grows in size beyond the ability of the system to cope. Having a thousand somewhat outdated aircraft with adequately trained pilots all under direct control is a great way to meet any border incursions in a timely manner, while also keeping control on the situations that do develop so as to stop them from growing into something larger. On the other hand, having just four hundred more modern aircraft with a highly trained and flexible air doctrine is a much better way to achieve air dominance in a major conflict. In the event of major operations having such a large unwieldy organization is not only ineffective, it is counterproductive. In that instance training, flexibility and the ability to dominate an engagement on your own terms would be much more important. The classic example of this can be found in the current air war in Ukraine. Both combatants presumably use similar doctrine and aircraft, albeit with the Russians having much more modern equipment, but now that the Ukrainians are fighting defensively they are much more able to create situations where they can dominate or penetrate a limited area on their terms. I don't underestimate the presumably very high value of Western intel to the Ukrainians, but it seems that the fact that they have fewer resources than the Russians seems to be working to their advantage. The US and the rest of the Western nations have never really had to work in a low intensity air-guerilla environment where keeping control of the situation and managing a large force of older equipment is more important that achieving a sudden knock out blow. It would be really interesting to see (if it weren't also probably fatal to humanity) how Western air forces would cope in a long extended air war with a large proportion of reserve and second tier aircraft and air crew. Anyway, keep up the great videos.

知己知彼，方能百战不殆。 Know yourself and know the enemy, you will not panic in battle!

When an f35 encounter j20. The US actually said that pilots are flying their j20 very professionally

China is a victim of growing pains! They've been fast tracking the production of fighter aircraft for quite awhile. With the end products being integrated so rapidly, promotions are everywhere! The best pilots want to go to the J-20's, J-10's, and then J-16's. In that order.

Once i heard somewhere "Quantity has a quality all its own" there might be something to it.

There's an important point you left out. Giving any information to an adversary poses a potential threat to National security. And as an officer whether it's british or american they are therefore "commissioned" officers. And despite being retired they are still officers of their respective militaries an country.

It would interesting to hear about RuAF training, since Russian pilots have a lot less flight hours then western air forces and have a long history of cooperating with China.

The Chinese know very well what is the problem when it comes to joint exercises with Thailand, in the Chinese internet I have never seen any accusations against the pilots, the military fans including the Chinese army know very well that the J11 they sent is only an early model, he is not significantly different from the SU27SK imported from Russia in the 90s, the close range dogfight is excellent, but the radar avionics system and missile weapons are obsolete because The J11A itself is a retired fighter of the Chinese army, and Thailand is actually one of the allies of the United States, so China does not want to reveal too much information to its opponents, and later, with the export of the J10C, the Chinese army also began to send J10C + KJ500 early warning aircraft to fight with Thailand's improved Eagle Lion + Saab-340 early warning aircraft. Systematic confrontation.

Oh come on, red sword? I bet they didn't hold a competition for a name?

Can you comment on the J20 during the recent Zhuhai Airshow in China.

You're looking well.

Yeah those British ex RAF pilots were working for MI6

Is there any news about the structural strength of the J-20?

it's called "comparing notes" on peculiarities of one's adversaries seriously, who doesn’t do that?!

Time will tell at the time of action.

This video was right on top of my recommended videos. Not sure what is different. Just FYI for your traffic tracking.

Lipetsk is not the equivalent to Top gun. During the Soviet union this was at Maryy airbase.

As a Chinese with quite a bit of knowledge of our airforce, it is indeed true that the Chinese plaaf are quickly changing and adapting to western air force tactics. There has been changed to the training system that improves the pilot's combat awareness. They are quickly adapting to newer and more modern techniques. They have also been holding man Vs man combat excercises where it is no longer centered on combat commands, but rather the pilot's own decisions

how much western equipment have the chinese acquired to use at their top gun school? are there any: f16 from venezula, f 14 from iran, f 18 from malaysia, f 15 from saudi arabia (one saudi f15 ended up in sudan) ...kind of like the yankee's groom lake area 51.

两个国家的人民要尽可能的多沟通交流并建立友谊，不能因为军队的存在就觉得两个国家应该敌对。欢迎美国的朋友到中国来旅行，我和人也很期待全世界到处走走。

The algorithm sucks. Your analysis and resistance to group-think are excellent. You should have 100K plus. Collaboration with Perun or Anders Puck Nielsen?

Sandboxx has a story on a j20 and f35 coming into contact at the china sea

its not just the poms , the royal australian airforce is going through its former members to check they didnt do this kind of thing , dont quote me on this but theres a few they they would like to talk to , they could have just been civil pilots while there but we dont really know that for sure

知己知彼，百战百胜。了解自己，也要了解你的对手。

Do you follow Dr Justin Bronk (RUSI)? If not please do. Love your stuff mate! 👍👍😂😂

Yes, we Chinese have to catch up with the best in the world. Great video!!!

did the title changed?

Going to be interesting to see how the newer training regime affects the PLAAF overtime. Gotta give them credit for being so ballsy with just straight up hiring western pilots as Consultants, all while the West never raised eyebrows until now. A good Long Format video.

Great subject right now ;)

Excellent presentation and thanks for sharing your thoughts. There’s no substitute for real combat experiences. The Chinese missed dog fights of ww2, Vietnam war, Russian pilots, Iraq war, Afghans war and many many more. They might have their hands full with Indian pilots. They need to train with the Israel pilots.

The modernization and growth the Chinese Air Force and Navy cannot be underestimated. All their front line fighters (J-10, J-11, J-16 & J-20) have thrust-vectoring engines that no Western jets have. The gulf in technology and tactics between China and their adversaries seems to be closing.

The unseen is what you have to worry about!

How do you know all this?

I agree Magic is magic until totally deconstructed.

the rumors confirmed the NATO actually “helped” China Air Force to be one of the top Air Force. I don’t believe these pilots would accept such offers without permission from authorities.

Really well trained considering ex British and US fighter pilots are over there training them for big pay cheques

I'd put money that some of those 30 UK pilots were working directly for MI6 because I have a hard time believing all 30 retired pilots were willing to share their knowledge with an adversary of their country just for money. Every county has bad seeds and every country has people that are full of greed, but there has to be a few of those 30 pilots that have some moral fiber!

Would love to see you make one for the IAF. Great work as always

👍

@Millenium7 --- sir---this is one of 'not the very best' analysis that I have ever seen from you. The current day chinese air force pilots are as competent as any other western air force pilots with as much freedom.

Come on Brittain, Just pay your pilots enough to retire.

ramping up ! us drum beating getting louder......

Imagine the pilots they got from RAF were actually ppl sent to spy on Chinese Air Force. That would be a huge problem oof

Good shooters are fed with bullets, Good pilots are fed with aviation kerosene. PLA used to have only enough budget for bullets, but now we have enough for jet fuel. This is the only valid reason for the changes that happened in the training syllabus, The world is material after all

hiring ex pilot of other airforce has been happening around the world for the past 100 years. this is the easiest way to build a red and blue force. almost all the major country has some kind of blue and red flag exercise. how do you think those exercise are done if they don't have the doctrine of other country to simulate those forces? the way these newspaper write about news make me feel like we are in an ocean of ignorance about how the military actually works.

Hi Bro, China paid and employed Instructor Pilots from Isreal, Germany and France. After those Instructors had taught the Chinese Pilots, they darenot return back to their own country but stayed in China.

With DCS being available everywhere, pilot skills will not be that different. ;-)

Shijiazhuang, The Rock hometown of China

That used to be called treason.

I bet chinese SU27 variants are much better then russian original. having in mind china is giant in electronics. so this consulting is about finding a flaw in western type of air fighting and how to exploit it cause they plan to invade taiwan but they will wait until russia is done fighting.or maybe they plan to invade sooner and by doing so help russia cause ukraine will recieve less and less weapons if usa gets into conflict with china

I find it rather strange that the UK has openly declared another country which they are NOT in active war with, and as a matter of fact still maintains diplomatic relationship as an enemy. It is both arrogant and rude to say the least. Perhaps China should oblige and grant the wishes of those hostile people in Westminster?

you got 2015 thailand completely wrong. PLAAF send best pilot with J-11A/Su-27UBK with oldest soviet radar which is Pulse-Doppler radar. PLAAF lost almost all beyond visual range combat，but this is expected. Chinese don't want to show their AESA radar.

Great video. China started military reforming since 2015 when you mentioned she got humiliated by Thailand airforce. PLAAF has been largely changed. Hope you can create a series of follow-up videos. Thanks again for such a detailed work.

Basically those consultants are teaching pla how to counter and destroy their nations formations

I appreciate your providing a direct response to my recent question about Chinese doctrine and training. This overview of how these areas have changed is very informative. This is further proof, to me at least, that the U.S. is playing an increasingly dangerous game with China. The overarching Full Spectrum Dominance doctrine the U.S. is practicing has already produced the stupid and unnecessary conflict in Ukraine and will surely lead to some form of direct conflict with China if it continues. The arrogance and stupidity of U.S. doctrine in practice puts the whole world at substantial risk. Watching "boys with toys" find ways to use them in real scenarios is frightening! In any actual war, EVERYONE loses!

The life we see most of the war veteran of USA, I think they are choosing good thing

As you know, working with Chinese company do not expect easy retirement job. They would squeeze you more and make you work, those Westerners are going to experience the Chinese workplace culture. I am confident that in the Chinese viewpoint, it is worth every penny.

An ex-USAF was arrested in Australia whilst in transit ... on the bequest of the USG.. tactics, tech integration and flight training syllabus... much of this available in the public format... Tactical mindset and improvisation of Western Pilot adaptability to changing tactic scenarios. Something the CCP has had difficulty in meeting the strategic objectives,missions and adaptation of the attrition of platforms, leadership and battle management...

They should never be let back home

Learning the enemy's tactics and capabilities - surely conducted on a Chinese coded and thus tuned-accordngly flight-simulator, is proven to be a hugh-deal, since much of the Israeli air-force's adavntage over its Arab adversaries since 1966 was due to a Mig-21 defected from Iraq - which was analyzed in the air and on the ground, in particular assessing its weaknesess and developing a countering combat tactic. The F-16 is emulated well by the JF-17 (an F-20 sold to China in 1988). Theresa May sold China Britain's greatest radar-secrets by the end of ther tenure (her husband is a German-weapons trader who pushed the scammy Boxer APC into Britih service - with vertical sides, unlike the ERA sloped sides of the much heavier Namer IFV). Israel sold China the Python-3 technology-stack 40 years ago. This is all Kissinger's policy of the past 50 years to rebase the world hegemony on China - which calls itself linguistically (since antiquity?): 'the central power' of the world. Surely the Western recruiters of those pilots aren't in Gitmo and wouldn't be either - a tale telling sign of higer-up intentions.

The fact that "freedom" in the West is exercised to such level that a high ranking retired military pilot who knows how the Western airforce works can be "bought" by China (which is inevitable enemy of the West, in the wake of upcoming grand Pacific war over Taiwan), is beyound ridiculous. In Iran, non of the military personnel and their family memebers, not even a cook for a police station in a remote village are allowed to leave the country even after their retirement, let alone getting recruited by an enemy military!!! They are only allowed to go to pilgrimage to Mecca, Iraq and Syria under supervision. Western freedom in some cases is just toxic

The lady at the supermarket.... Does she has a sister?

The word is not "consultant", rather, "traitor"

Shit!... The British Ex-pilot

Hopefully these western pilots went through proper channels with there own military and state departments and were briefed on what they could and could not do. On the whole, this is not a good look for them. It comes off as unpatriotic and mercenary. In the US it is my understanding that when an individual leaves the military it is a "separation" and the individual is still bound by conditions including "recall"!

excellent show! Very informative as always! Sorry but, if possible, please try to improve your English some more. I have to read the CC to understand what you are saying. Anyways, keep up the excellent work!

你确定是军方？而不是民航公司？