WATCH MORE: Why are so many wives onscreen presented as nagging shrews? Here's our TAKE: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-AO_sw-nAlEI.html
I loved how "WandaVision" had Elizabeth Olsen slowly evolve into the different type of sitcom wife as they delved into different decades. She did an excellent job of mimicking the standard mannerisms of the era.
As a kid watching The Simpsons, Everybody Loves Raymond, King Of Queens etc I noticed all the women seemed so unhappy. It partly influenced me in never wanting to get married, that and fact all married people I know seem miserable in real life too.
Morticia Addams and Lily Munster were probably the most psychologically healthy wives I can think of. Especially Morticia. Clearly an equal partner in their marriage.
Kaitlin Olson REFUSED to play Sweet Dee as the "voice of reason" character on Always Sunny, insisted that Dee should be a quirky, self-absorbed, and hilariously stupid as the rest of the gang. On behalf of all fans, thank you, Kaitlin.
@@georgeprchal3924 yeah, in there scene in the pool chairs, she does say insinuate at one point, but she uses Dennis's whole phrase because of the implication. Good catch though. I admire your Always Sunny memory.
I love the moms in Derry Girls. While Erin's mother is the one we see most frequently, the other moms have their own unique characteristics (many of whom are also seen in their kids) that make them all distinctive and a joy to see on screen.
I liked how "Kevin can F Himself" deconstructed the entire concept of the lazy, childish husband and the harried, put upon wife, and how frustrating that situation would be in real life. It also blends three camera laugh track sets and gritty, one camera "real" locations perfectly.
Not only that, it deconstructs the "just like the boys" woman trope and the "dumb with a heart of gold" trope too. I like how Kevin's selfishness was what made all his friends leave him, he never openly hurt anyone (till the last episode), he just manipulated every situation to his benefit.
In Brazil, Rochelle from Everybody Hates Chris is a beloved character for many people who grew up watching the show in the mid 2000's. She is very much the embodiment of the brazilian mom most people had in their childhood growing up as working class: realistic, protective, very hard working and her love is tough, but honest. I have seen my mum and dad in Rochelle and Julius countless times, and thats why to this day Everybody Hates Chris will always have a soft spot in my heart.
I'm so happy to hear that "Everybody Hates Chris" was popular in Brazil. I'm happy not only as a fan of the show (and Chris Rock), but also as an African-American. For so long TV shows and movies centered around Black people and our lives were not produced with the excuse that, "People in other countries won't like them or relate to them." It always brings me joy whenever I see examples that prove the contrary. Good stories are good stories, and can be appreciated by all. ✌🏿❤
That is one of the best shows ever and does well portraying a mom with all boys in the house. I raised one and holy moley. Admired lois because I could never. Lol
@@Nicole-zh7pl yes!!! It's also interesting in context of today's discussion on gender roles and masculinity (her and husband, her vs the boys). Also her relationship with other female characters (mother, mother-in-law, daughter-in-law). Lois is 👑
I love how 'Kevin Can F Himself' shows that sitcom husbands are portrayed as having Main Character Syndrome, and yet the ACTUAL main character is pushed into a supporting, almost submissive role whenever her husband is in the room.
Surprised you guys didn't talk about Fran Fine from The Nanny. She is very much like Linda Belcher being joyful and quirky. She is also a nuanced take being the "one who is out of the league" compared to Maxwell Sheffield and his posh English family. She also pays tribute to Lucy Riccardo with her zany antics and her incredible charm with everyone.
Yeah I was waiting for her to be mentioned as a twist on the trope because she and Max weren’t even married for most of the show but she took on most of the duties of the sitcom wife because it was (literally) her job!
she also knew who she wanted, waited while still doing her thing and dating other men. she wanted the family and the man, but she never really really let that get her down! she inspired me so much as a kid!
Plus she also knew how to come back against CC's jabs but was also kind to her at times bc she saw the unhappy little girl inside. They were never friends but they were never cruel to each other. Just goes to show how well a woman understands women (what a shocker!)
The Fran Fine character was a love letter to Lucy Ricardo (and a favorite of the actress Fran Drescher as she has mentioned in interviews) Grew up with and to this date love both characters❤
Another important fact about Lucy Ricardo was that she wanted to work; she was happily married but obviously had energy and drive beyond her household duties, and that served as an engine for many of the series’ highjinks. She really wanted to “be in the show,” unlike a character like June Cleaver.
Not just any work though. She wanted to be ✨A Star✨ even though she wasn't the most talented person. I do think that if Ricky had given her a job as a substitute background dancer she might've laid off a bit some
As much as I loved "The Nanny" and Fran, I can see why she was left out. Even though she often acted like Max's wife, and very much wanted to be his wife, she was not his wife until the end of the series. While their dynamic was sometimes that of a married couple, it often wasn't. First, there's the unrequited love factor that went on for years. There was also the many times they dated other people. Let's also remember that for most of the series, she was his domestic employee. These are things that I hope would not be a part of a marriage (though no judgment if they are). They couldn't include every show, no matter how good they were. Maybe their relationship can be explored on a different Take (hint-hint)😉
Happy to see someone talk about Home Improvement. I watched it all the time when I was a kid and I don't hear anyone else talk about even though it was the number one show on TV when it was on air. Another show to mention is The Middle starting Patricia Heaton from Everyone Loves Raymond.
Allison doesn't want vengeance against Kevin, she just wants out. And not for nothing, but left to her own devices, we see that she's a hot mess on her own. So even though she plots his demise, Kevin Can F* Himself isn't really about revenge. It's about escape. And growth. When everyone asks her why she just doesn't leave him, she never actually can articulate why. But we the viewer see what she's going through. It's an interesting take on sitcom wives being emotionally and psychologically trapped. But it is just a take. Sitcom wives may often be put upon, or feel under appreciated, but as Marge Simpson, often states, and shows, she wouldn't trade it for anything. My favorites are her, Jill Taylor, and Claire Huxtable. And of course Lucy, which I'm surprised more comedies didn't try to emulate. I guess there was Dharma and Greg...
I wonder if TV shows like this are another reason why a lot of women r choosing themselves over marriage and kids. Because watching these shows now, it does make a woman viewer think "Is that really what marriage and having kids really cracked up to be?"
Thats absolutely what a lot of men think about marriage because of these shows. If you get married your wife just belittles and resents you. I only noticed this after guys I grew up with tell me they wanted to avoid marriage because they didn't want to end up like Raymond or married to Lois from Malcolm in the Middle. It's odd but like the big bang theory for example: Bernadette and Penny seem to genuinely resent being with their husbands and yell at them like they're kids. I guess maybe if you're a girl you see those husbands as unhelpful and childlike and feel bad for the wives but for guys: imagine your spouse talking to you or about you like that? I don't think most women are like that regardless, but I know shows like this inform people about what's normal in a marriage and ends up giving them reasons to avoid it.
I love Peggy even with her over the top/sometimes problematic too high levels of self-confidence and self-esteem. She definitely should have been included.
My mum was one of the few in our neighbourhood that was the breadwinner, my dad has a job but it’s more for fun and is seasonal. It’s my mum who makes the makes money and so I literally grew up never under the traditional gender roles. On top of that, it’s my dad who nags and always disciplines me while my mum is the fun one and the one I’d consider my friend since all our time together is spent doing enjoyable things
Another character that breaks the sitcom wife archetype: Wendy Byrd from Ozark. She's impulsive, rude, and is always getting the family into trouble that her serious husband Marty has to get them out of again.
Ugh, I can't rewatch that show because I got so sick of Wendy. But ya know, I respect the decision to have a legit bad organized crime lady. I know by the end of Breaking Bad I didn't like Walter White.
No love of Chili in bluey? All the love goes to Bandit (rightfully so, Dads have been abused for years) but Chili is a pretty three dimensional mom. The fact she arguably suffers from depression is pretty unique for a mom character (especially a cartoon mom for kids)
@@melodyclark1944 uh yeah cartoon and tv dads are notoriously treated like they are buffoons, I could literally name them until I'm blue in the face lol As for the Chili thing - it's not said directly but the creators of bluey have all kinds of stuff for adults who care enough to look into it. Like her having had a miscarriage before having bluey is another one. If you are bored do a quick Google on it, some people take it very seriously lol
I don’t think this channel actually watched King of Queens. Carrie and Doug were equal troublemakers in different ways. That’s what made them perfect for each other. In an entertaining toxic way. The show never depicts Carrie as too good for Doug - she’s pretty but not a homemaker, she struggles in her job, she’s MEAN and violent… in a hilarious way. She can’t keep friends. It’s basically 50/50 between Doug and Carrie which one is causing trouble and has to fix the other.
I loved Lois in Malcolm in the Middle. She was the modern mom who was a blue collared worker and yelled to make her point across because of having six males in the house, but her toughness was necessary as a woman who had to do everything in raising a family that barely made ends meet. The ending was a great sendoff showing everything she does for Malcolm was to get out of poverty and be a better person. Also Wanda in the Bernie Mac show was a great adoptive mother to her husbands nieces and nephew and did call out when she was emotionally hurt, including giving herself a "me," day.
I agree. I think they should have included more wives and families of different races and ethnicities. They sometimes had experiences and expectations placed upon them that were different than their white counterparts. These things also changed throughout the different eras.
Which is a sad reality for a lot of couples. Women don't need the extra burden of being in charge of a man child husband. And husbands would like the freedom and respect of an adult partner instead of a subordinate. At the end of the day is the work of both to find a balance where both "wear the pants". Basically, don't infantilize your partner or yourself.
Della Duck from Ducktales (2017), Nancy Green from Big City Greens, and Linda Belcher from Bob's Burgers are my favorite TV moms because they have personalities that are fun while still being loving parents
I like to see my own mom as an IRL sitcom wife, she's hard working, smart, witty, determined, wise, and loving. She had to deal with many challenges with her childhood and adulthood, like my dad's motorcycle accident less than a year after their wedding, my little brother's autism diagnosis, finding jobs in a post 2008 recession world, and my dropping out of college due to mental health issues. My mom is a champ and deserves her flowers.
What's interesting is that the husband and wife comedy stereotypes date back to even before the Roman Empire but we're probably made most recognisable through the Roman comic playwright Plautus
I’m seeing Modern Family again but this time as a married woman and it’s infuriating to see Phil, he’s not a good guy, he doesn’t learn and Clair is still carrying everything… I just caaan’t
@@mastersnet18 - He loves his wife and children but is SO clueless in the way he deals with things. His inability to "read the room" and pick up on things makes him comes off as clumsy and childish in his approach to many situations.
It used to be the norm, though usual widow/widowers, rather than divorce or just always single. From the Partridge Family, My Three Sons, Courtship of Eddie's Father, One Day at a Time, etc. Very common
How are you not gonna mention Lois Wilkerson from Malcom in the Middle? The show that was basically Young Sheldon before Young Sheldon, it has over 30 awards and nominations, and that show had the most realistic depiction of what lower if not lowest middle class was like I the 2000s. Shame on you The Take, same on you.
My favorite sitcom moms were Carol Brady, Marion Cunningham and Elyse Keaton. But Lucy Ricardo is an alltime classic. Claire Huxtable was awesome. And one of my alltime favorite tv characters period is Edith Bunker. Jean Stapleton was absolutely amazing in portraying the evolution of Edith. And she went through so much in a short amount of time but remained relatable, compassionate, and the heart of her show. Out of all the sitcom moms Edith is who I would want to be friends with.
Linda is the best sitcom wife because she's not just "the woman behind the man" or "the ideal woman". She has a shitton of love for her family, but she also gets to be as wacky and out of control as her kids while her husband is the beleaguered put-upon sensible wet blanket who has to keep everything in line...while still being wrong about a lot of things.
Mortica Addams and Lilly Munster both not mentioned here were game changers too. Mortica was seen actually loving her husband and not just a sweet peck either it was hinted at what happened behind closed doors. Lilly was seen sharing a bed with her husband which at the time was a huge no no just look to I Love Lucy or even Dick Van Dike Show to see this in action.
There was a scene in King of Queens that perfectly represented my marriage: where Carrie imagines her husband as a giant toddler running toward her and trying to knock her down as she runs away for her life.
Shout out to I Married Joan. It was another Lucy-esque show in the 50s. Although Lucy was the bigger show, Joan was pretty damn funny too. My favorite part was she had her real-life daughter play her little sister in the show. Also shout out to Bea Arthur's Maude. I loved her unapologetic feminism in the show and Bea was just an amazing person in general ❤
As someone who’s in a non-traditional unblended/blended family unit with two unmarried parents who LAT while raising teens and young adults, I applaud the variety of depictions of sitcom wives and girlfriends, but also definitely want to see that envelope pushed even further.
I didn't care for Cheryl on "Curb Your Enthusiasm ". She could be a stuck up snob and was not above playing the "Do you know who my husband is" card to get priority seating at restaurants.
Ahhhh the old “I’m going continue to be a man child & make it seem like my Wife is a nag for no reason YET honestly it’s my character & childish ways the upsets & frustrates her” oh how I love the nagging wife trope 😒
I was thinking about asking why Jessica Walter's character in Archer was missed, then I saw that she is a Single Parent, another trope that I am hoping to see you examine.
I wonder if maybe they didn't add them because they're generally aimed younger audiences and can't have as wide a range of topics & nuance is hard to come by? Or maybe they're planning on doing a standalone video of sitcoms aimed at younger viewers and how it influences young children and how they view families? Maybe it just didn't quite fit the category because of the age difference of the audience.
@@pixiebellsgood sitcoms are good sitcoms regardless of who they’re aimed at Also they aren’t doing a separate videos they never talk about Disney channel Critics who treat 'adult' as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adult themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence. And in childhood and adolescence they are, in moderation, healthy symptoms. Young things ought to want to grow. But to carry on into middle life or even into early manhood this concern about being adult is a mark of really arrested development. When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up. C.S. Lewis
The thing may be because the parents aren't the main focus. They might have subplots and shine on their own in ways, but it's the kids and teens that are the center.
Rochelle was a terrible wife and mother! Julius was working 2 jobs and she kept quitting all her jobs. They lived in the ghetto and were poor but she refused to work. Even CHRIS held a job and he was 14! I remember as a gift to Julius he paid the light bill! 😂😂 She always made Chris do everything while Drew and Tanya got away with murder! She was running the house by yelling at everyone all the time and rarely showed them affection!
Unfortunately, a significant minority of black children can relate to that. Not because of of the mom not working, but they cab relate with having a mom who yell and nag all the time.
@@scl97 I’m black! My mom is black… I yell and nag! My MILs were Hispanic, they yelled and nagged! I have Jewish friends, white friends, Asian friends… their moms yell and nag too! The PROBLEM, slow-Cum! Is that Rochelle was refusing to work and didn’t make her other kids do one damn thing! It’s not a black woman issue, she’s just a terrible person! You need to check your facts
love it, they are all basically the same they run their houses with iron fist, and mold men to thier liking, and if men complain, they get the silent treatment, or slept on the couch,lol
Thank you! I was going to post this myself before I saw yours. While they are of different ethnicities, they were both white. I know that marrying a person of a different ethnicity could be a problem back then, depending on the ethnic groups involved, it was not nearly the same as the problems an interracial couple would face. Especially in places where interracial marriages were illegal.
@@originalcosmicgirl yeah. Their marriage was literally legal in a time where interracial marriages were not. Neither in the US nor in Cuba. Lmfao. I dunno why they said that.
They were at the time. Hispanics are still considered a race most of the time even today. You’re forgetting that this was the 1950s, and that was considered very daring for the time. Historical relativism is important. Btw interracial marriages were only illegal in some states (mostly southern) and some had laws so strict this marriage would have been illegal too. I mean many people were wary of marrying someone of a different denomination, so a different ethnicity would have been even more wild.
@@mastersnet18 you’re not understanding. Miscegenation was ILLEGAL at the time. Both in USA and Cuba. There marriage was not. It is not an interracial marriage. I’m always trying to explain to people that white Hispanics are not only white, not only have always been white, but literally invented white supremacy in the new world! Why don’t people get this? She didn’t marry an Afro-Cuban, that would have been illegal. And she didn’t marry and indigenous south or Central American, or a Taino or Ciboney from Cuba! He’s a white Cuban! Yes he has dark mediterranean features, the way a French or Spanish or Italian or greek person might have, but he was literally a descendant of CUBAN NONBILITY. This was not an interracial marriage.
Oh wow, the derision with which you spoke of Mrs. Cleaver finding fulfillment in housework and raising her children wasn't great! Perhaps what you meant that contempt to express was that she "only" finds fulfillment in housework and raising her children. God forbid women not wanting to participate in the market! Women are allowed to enjoy traditional womanly roles without being disrespected by other women.
Yea I found that very annoying and rolled my eyes hard. God forbid a woman doesn’t do what the feminists say and become a wage slave like everyone else! So much for “progress”. Women always have to put other women down. Also the way she said “even back in the 50s” with absolute derision. Like the 50s were the dark ages.
Talk about stats: How many shows are made for men 18-35 vs women 35 - 50. How many shows are made for men that include women vs shows made for women. What about media made of only mother/mothering representation vs media made for chosen childless “post prime” women.
Two and a Half men feels like the target Audience is Men. In Germany we have a whole TV channel for Men or at least Men's typical interests like Cars, Bearbeitung Grills and other survival shows, Doch.entaries about warfare and Soldiers, Sports like Racing, Darts, Pool, Snooker and on and on. I don't think that men can't find TV Entertainment that's made with their Interest in mind.
