How to Install a Heat Pump That Works 

Thank you for watching! Merry Christams and a Happy New Year!

Jeff, what medication are you on, Dracula is a Transylvanian Cowboy!! I wouldn’t let him into my house to change Tap Washer!!

@@UrbanPlumbers I'd happily have the coal fire that heats the radiators and hot water back rather than just a room heater multifuel stove which we still run 24/7 even tho we have air source the fire does a good job

Fully agree. I’m proud of my plumbing but I still learn bits from your videos. Merry Christmas all!

Hi Urban Plumber , really enjoy your videos , got a quick question for you . Hot water priority on Ideal Logic2 Max System , is the live switch for heating connected at 1 In and hot water switch live to 2 In ? , I’ve done this settings and the boiler would fire at maximum flow temperature on heating and hot water call , any ideas what I’ve done wrong? I’ve use Hive V3 Thermostat. Thanks.

Thank you, Merry Christmas 🤶

It does get below -3 but not often.

yes it does - so called active mode

I've got a heat only Ideal boiler, been mulling over adding Load Compensation (Nest OpenTherm) or Weather Compensation (Ideal Sensor Kit). I've been thinking the same, that adding the weather compensation kit to the boiler and keeping the Nest with on/off controls (not open therm) is the way forward. Not least because I have far more confidence it will work, being the manufacturers own kit - I'm unsure just how well a Nest will talk to a heat-only Ideal boiler over OT. The only issue I have is I can't seem to run it lower than 50 deg C flow temp, it starts cycling as it can't dissipate heat quickly enough. Either my flow rate is too low, balancing is a bit out or (most likely) my 30kW boiler is oversized for my medium size 4-bed detached and can't modulate low enough :/

Although I'm unsure about ideal boilers, especially without model details, you're able to reduce the heat output on most modern boilers through the parameters. Might be worth looking into further

@@hazzzzzzzzzz16 looking at the manual, the 30kW can modulate down to 6.1kW - which I think is too much to keep my house ticking over. The 24kW (and all lower powers) can modulate down to 4.8kW. I should have insisted on the 24kW - but the plumber said 30 would be better. If better means it heats the house up quickly, he'd be right! 1.3kW extra doesn't sound too big though. So maybe I can improve things with a re-balance and pump speed setting. I want to make sure the boiler can run happily at a low flow temp before I go buying the weather compensation kit.

I was wondering about this - what happens if you have say a house with a big south facing window (or conservatory) - when the sun comes out can generate a lot of heat, but also loose heat overnight etc.

Merry Christams Sam and thank you for watching!

In the winter my jobs have been averaging 20 - 40 kWh per day

Brian, it’s been a pleasure. Apologies for Peter destroying your home sign. I hope he comes back to do chores for you now! Merry Christmas 🤶

Hope you don't mind my asking how much did the heat pump consume during the cold spell, Brian?

@@singlendhot8628 We missed the cold spell. As soon as we fired the heat pump the weather got nice. However in 10C outside the HP is ticking along at around 400 watts, on my other jobs 5 and 7kw heat pumps would run at around 1.2 - 2.0kW depending on the house, heat loss, etc...

@@UrbanPlumbers Interesting. We are also registering the same kW usage of ~ 2 kW on our AroTherm+ installs. Interestingly, our Viessmann 200-W installs are running at full modulation - 2.2kW of gas at 10 degrees C and 5 kW at -5 degrees, which is actually cheaper per kWh.

Mine are running at 400-500 watts when it’s 10c outside

Cheers Norman! Have a good Christmas and a Happy New Year!

I agree. And even if the grid manages to cope, that electricity will have to come from expensive peaker plants. Ideally, a small heater powered by bioethanol, wood pellets or even propane or heating oil, would be a useful addition. Or, even better, an electrical generator feeding electricity into the grid and using waste heat to heat the house.

That’s the truth spelled out loud! These pumps are good(read economical) only if the outside temperatures are in positive! One should over-size its pump in order for them to have higher CoP on minus T.

Never ever oversize a heat pump

@@stormtrooper9404 Ours worked well when we had a -10 to -15 cold snap for a few days, used about 80-100kwh a day to keep us around 20c inside (display says use was 190-220 kWh of heat!) HP was sized for a full house but we're currently living in the finished section so a bit oversized for our current situation I suspect the problem will be partially solved once we fix our doors as we could clearly feel the cold drafts

Every hour is fine. Mine was doing it every 25 minutes

There never comes a point when direct electric is more efficient mate! Not till -15c outside.

Szymon?

@@grzegorzknebel6706 He's the Urban Plumber - Polish I believe?

What is meant by poor airflow? at back too close to wall? just home owner here interested in heat pump

video coming soon on this, in my case it is a unit located in a narrow alleway and recirculating cold air going into deforst every 20-30 minutes

You can install under the Heat Geek umbrella and get the BUS funding. Have a look into that. The best umbrella scheme out there.

the savings are minimal because here, in the UK, "dirty" solar/wind electricity cost 25% more because of the green levy and "clean" domestic gas has no such burden. > don't have the budget then government should subsidize installation for them. as a taxpayer I would rather pay for HP installs rather than fines for carbon reduction agreement violations.

I look at it the other way, why fit gas boilers this day and age. Heatpump combined with pv and smart tariff (octopus), you can isolate yourself from gas prices+fluctuations and get roi in 5-7 years. If you're on a newish boiler or poorly insulated building i agree with. though plenty of people still going for boilers in newer type buildings.

@@SBTRIS I can try to explain why: 1) Solar PV on its own does not perform in Winter. Even a 5 kWh system will generate no more than 300W an hour for 4 hours on average UK winter days. 2) Upfront cost of £6-7000 over and above a Viessmann 200-W (installed) after the BUS benefit is factored in. 3) Property incompatibility - no external space to fit the unit in a way that meets design spec and does not anger the neighbours. If you're running a non-condensing boiler, a 10 year old boiler or an oil boiler, get a heat pump without any doubt. But if you cannot get a heat pump for any of the above reasons, get a Viessman 200-W.

You do realise gas prices are going to keep going up faster than electricity? At the moment the price ratio is 3.5x but that will come down to around 2x when the green levies on electricity are transferred to gas (which is being planned). At 2x a heat pump is a no-brainer.

Our gas prices are over 3 to 4 euro's per m3 already. I get electricity at 0.40c per kWh. Heatpumps are already a no brainer in a lot of countries. Then I have solar aswell. Any kwh's i feed to the grid, Im allowed to use as credit later that contract year. I dont pay anything per month atm. I get money from the electric company.

Thank you Michael!

I heard good things about Panasonic, haven’t seen one yet

I am not 100% this is the best method. It runs at higher flow temps as inside temp and comfort is a priority. I will be testing all modes at my own place and making video of my findings. My intuition tells me active mode without adaptive should be best.

@@UrbanPlumbers if you are open to learn, you will have a happy outcome i’ve been doing weather comp on vaillant controls on gas boilers for 15yrs, i use adaptive on them all. It’s a bit shocking when you go to a victorian property with rads on gas boiler with vrc700 and find the curve is 0.65 and everything at temp. you ask your self if you left it that low!

Yes I can see it working well on gas. Not convinced on HPs yet on adaptive

Thank you Dean. Marry Christmas 🎄

This was was running at 400 watts with 10c outside. Didn’t get a chance to test it at sub zero.

???

Thanks Craig!

its what is called hot water priority. It runs at 2 different flow temperatures - one for heating at max of 40C and one for DHW at up to 75C That pipe and gravel have been already tested in very cold weather with units defrosting quite often and it works perfectly.

@@UrbanPlumbers Thanks for the answer. DHW temp management has been around quite some time. Danger comes with older systems when the users are not aware of the legionella issue. Great that the ground accepts all the water. Have seen many cases where it has saturated on certain weather.

Yes, it a monobloc so no fridge circuits to deal with. No need for F gas to install one.

You don't - but if you do you can always run the unit lower. Better to calucate to 21 and then run it at a weather curve that maintains 18C if you chose to.

@@UrbanPlumbers I see, thank you so much for the explanation. 👍

It is build into the heat pump

thank you and Merry Christams to you Brian.

at 30 you are still young enough to make a successful switch. There are other areas of renewables you could go into such as specifying and design, but those would also take you some years of study and practice before you could make any money out of those. I would not look at it from a financial perspective alone because switching careers to something you have not done before will always mean you have to go through a period of intense learning with possibly very little money in it. If you like to work with tools and can enjoy a bit of engineering and problem-solving - then just go for it. Renewable installation is hard work and long hours - so if you go for it for the money, you will quit pretty quickly. On the other hand, it can be the most rewarding and satisfying work ever. You need to enjoy the process though and be ready for tough periods and moments of frustration. I would suggest finding a reputable renewables company in your area and ask for an apprenticeship or laboring position. Try it for a month or two and see if its for you. If you are half decent with tools and you have the right attitude a good employer will reward you quite quickly. I would rather hire someone with the right attitude and no experience than an experienced person with a bad attitude. An honest employer will also be able to tell you pretty quickly if this is for you or not.

@@UrbanPlumbers Solid, heartfelt advice!

This household pays 10pence for kWh of electricity on night tariff and has 6kwh battery charged at night. It works out 3-4 times cheaper to run than gas on that tariff! Current price cap is around 3:1 so a heat pump with scop of 4.0 (this one will be even higher than 4) is around 25-30% cheaper than gas again. I know there are stories of how expensive heat pumps can be to run. Those are mostly badly installed with no proper system design.

Card in the video

Airing cupboard is all you need

Way more efficient to keep a condensing boiler or a heat pump running at low output and WC - if controlled well, as many Viessmann 200 fully weather compensated installations have proved time and time again.

@@UrbanPlumbers Also with setback temperatures

Yes you set a lower set back temperature (2-3c lower) than your comfort temp. You can’t fully turn heat pump off in the winter as on cold days it will take hours to get back to comfort levels.

Hi Mikael, hope all is good with you. Merry Christmas !

link added now

Yes, but it doesn’t open under normal operating conditions

They are back in stock at my local merchants now

@@UrbanPlumbers still out of stock up north. Many of the "nationals" are saying it's a discontinued line, and Vaillant themselves just send you round in a loop. eBay isn't even an option right now. Vaillant are not helping themselves at all.

Thank you 🙏

Press fit

Yes, one is enough

if you use the controller as a thermostat then you do not know if the heat pump is not running a heat curve that is too high. It may not be as efficient as it could be. If you set the controls to inactive, then you will have to gauge if the property is getting too hot (lower the curve) or too cold (up the curve) and that gives you the best chance to dial the system in correctly. Once you get the heat curve that is the closest to maintaining the equilibrium then by all means switch to active or expanded. Regarding DHW I would not have it always on. I would use a time schedule - but the schedule would be different for different scenarios. Use always on if you have high DHW use. If you have solar PV and solar diverter to DHW, then it makes sense to set DHW for late afternoon to top up solar production (if big enough) If you have a cheaper overnight tariff, then obviously charge the cylinder at night and maybe even get it topped up higher with the immersion heater after the HP finishes it's cycle. If it is the summer, and you don't have PV and do not have an overnight tariff then run DHW in the day for better efficiency. As you can see, there is just too many variables here.

@@UrbanPlumbers Thanks for your reply. I will play with the options and settings once I get the heat pump. We ordered last July, so it should arrive before next winter...🙈 We have Solar, soon will have a dynamic energy provider (Tibber) and I am doing a lot of automation via Home Assistant, so this will be a nice little project...💪

@@rolandrohde Interested to know how much you expect to be able to get Home Assistant to be able to interact with your solar and heat pump?

@@nickkitson The interaction with my solar is mainly so I can control things like grid-charging my Solar battery when electricity is cheap and not much solar is predicted. Concerning the heat pump it's essentially the same. If several hours of excess sun or cheap grid electricity is expected, then turn up the heat pump for that period, after that return it to it's normal operating state. This can be achieved in a primitive fashion with the SG Ready contact, or more elegantly if the heat pump is directly integrated in HA and offers control over things like the flow temp or hot water temp directly.

I love that you live watching them!

those cylinders are so well insulated that I doubt it would ever be a problem. There is loads of them in unheated garages as well.

then it just means your friend got undersized heatpump or the heat emitters sized were checked properly. That wouldn't happen if heat calculation was done correctly. Any house even with bad insulation can run heatpump if things are done like this guy does.

75c

3c is the temperature at which the valve will open to drain the system water - yes. The system has anti-frost protection and will always keep the system water above 5C unless there is a power cut.

yes outside unit. I could tell it was the airflow, as when we moved it (at the same outside temp of -3) the output improved quite a bit and the unit stopped going into defrost 3 times per hour. Video about it is coming soon, as the unit is still propped up on a piece of wood, so have to go back and move it properly.

@@UrbanPlumbers Thanks!

always copper over plastic, especially on heat pumps.

some engineers like plastic some not

@@UrbanPlumbers hi, great vid, what size of copper pipe would be best? Is it the bigger the better? Thank you

@@memecoinmafia2732 it's not about engineers - it's the heat pumps that do not like plastic. I just do not work on heat pumps unless you go a size up compared to copper and use press-fit instead of push-fit.

@@UrbanPlumbers okay cheers , i didn't know plastic pipe was a problem for heat pumps ...why is it a problem ?

Yes - the drainage is 1m away to the right (no problem anymore by the way, as drainage now can be in the protective zone) and the window needs to be just above the unit. (some say 200mm, and some say just 1mm above the unit, here we are 300mm above the unit) I can't see any other issues but let me know if you do?

you are in such a mild climate that a heat pump is easily capable to do all your heating and hot water throughout the year. We have heat pumps running 200-250m2 houses here in colder and more humid environment

you really want to avoid buffers if you can. They can and will usually lower the overall efficiency of the system. You will need them if the pump inside the unit cannot overcome the pressure loss in the system though. In the UK they are quite often installed so that the installer does not have to worry about the existing system pressure loss. Very often they are simply not needed.