Honestly. Never going to date a non-selfaware fearful avoidant again. Everything was my fault. Silent treatment. Stone walling. Causing intense emotional pain in me and then blaming me for it, similtaneously telling me "I feel like my needs and my opinion don't matter to you" while I was regularly asking her what she feels, needs, wants, telling her that I value her opinion and she can tell me if anything bothers her and we'll work on it. This was a one way relationship. I had to do the work for both of us while she was constantly sabotaging. And in the end I was left with confusion, severe heartbreak, emotional burnout while she went on to enjoy freedom after she dumped me via text (but returned twice, only to dump me when I asked if we could talk) and ignored me...
I went through the exact same thing, you are right. My Ex FA came back every 4 weeks since Dec 22 only to make me feel very humiliated, very small, very incapable and dumping me and telling me bad things about me. From my experience , most FA, not all of course, traumatize other people because of their own traumas. I was married to a narcissist for 15 years and thought there was nothing worse than a narcissist but my experience was, that the FA was the worst in a relationship and friendship I have ever experienced. I‘m half secure, half AP and now trying to heal from this abusive time which, because of my love to him, led me to let him abuse me. I‘m sure I will get better and for the future, I will avoid FAs clearly 😊 So thank you Thais so much for this wonderful video! Your work is so important and means so much to me.
As a FA myself now I get to see how other people see us. I feel bad for putting similar thing on my last partner. We’re not intentionally do it to make other people guilty or miserable but we just don’t know how to process it in a healthy way. Now I see the bigger picture and I working on to heal and improve myself
Being an FA is not the same for everyone, it happens on a spectrum. Just wanted to say that here. Some people are broken beyond repair but most are not. Do not give up hope ! And fyi: as you move closer towards secure attachment, you will become more clingy (AP) or more avoidant (DA) on the way. .... Being FA can be a temporary thing. It was for me at least .
I hope this is true for me too. I was on high DA and now moving towards clingy. But it sabotaged the relationship anyways. But I’m still tying to move forward. Hopefully not blindly.
This is helpful. I think the hardest part is dealing with the emotions when things don’t go your way. It’s logical to walk away from someone who doesn’t meet your needs. But there’s this addictive toxic quality about staying that keeps me in the loop. Trying so hard to think clearly
Try to surround yourself with family and friends who can meet some of those needs that you’re expecting from a partner. Hopefully it lessens the sudden loss you feel.
Responding calmly to the fearful avoidants irrational responses to normal relationship progression is like staying calm and collected on the 3rd floor during a house fire. You could and should but it’s not likely to go down that way.
Surprisingly I was able to- in front of him I was calm, cool collected, never once clingy or needy or became emotional. On the inside my mental and emotional health was deteriorating rapidly and I had to stay away from him, forvever.
@@jenbodhi1133I left this comment 9 months ago and I am currently ending a terrible relationship with a different avoidant than I was relating to when I left this comment. It is shocking how fast your mental health will be destroyed in this dynamic. Once I chose me and what’s best for me it made saying good bye easier yet still incredibly painful.
@@livewires8637 I totally understand, I was only on this relationship for 3 months and my mental and emotional health was great when we met, 3 months later I am insomniac, drinking too much, a total anxious mess. Definitely get away from them as soon as you can, it’s only been a week since I decided I’m totally done with him and I’m already starting to feel better. You got this!
The problem with me now as a secure (used to be disorganized) is I realize how I can not even get to fully vet a FA or DA…they run away as soon as any depth really appears. Now all I am learning to do is give time and space, go no contact but in a loving way-I won’t stop contact without telling them how much I wish we could have gotten to know one another, and I am moving on because I know what I want in life, but maybe we can try again if they figure out what they want in the future (since they put me in a hot & cold situation making my head spin). I let them know I wish for their own happiness as well and that’s why I am stepping back since they are avoiding. All I can do as a secure, is focus on myself and hope for some calming down and reprioritization from them to decide if our love is worth fighting for.
Wish I had had this skillful approach last year, I totally inadvertently triggered an FA several times just by being intuitive and thinking they were the type who could "work through stuff regadless" but clearly had some other layers of things in there. I am sure this will help lots of people to be aware of this and I'll do my best to bear in mind in the future for whomever might be struggling with that FA dynamic.
I see it more that a truly secure person will seek out another secure person. So for a secure person to want a relationship with an FA or DA they would need to be leaning away from secure in some way. A truly secure person won't want a partner who is reluctant to show up for them because they'd know their worth and wouldn't settle. It wouldn't interest a secure person to dance around an avoidant's fears so much because it would just be uninteresting. The secure person would say, "Ok their fears are theirs and not for me to figure out."
I agree. I am by nature a secure person, but having a relationship with an FA was starting to make me feel FA. Up is down, and down is left. None of the normal cues apply, so obviously I screwed up a lot....by thinking what most people would consider normal. Forget asking for boundaries...that just doesn't make sense to them. Their way or the highway. I had no idea it would be this way when the relationship started. If it wasn't so obvious to me that he is in pain, I would say I was conned.
As a securely attached person I’ve had to have some conversations with anxious avoidants to help calm their anxieties. I promise you it doesn’t have to be difficult to meet people where they are at and validate their experience so you both can move forward. Securely attached people can have a relationship with anyone. I get along with most people if I “choose” to but if ethics and morals are not there that’s where I draw the line. It’s all about having a strong sense of self.
Completely agree, I ended it with an FA a few months ago because no progression = uninteresting. In my experience FAs aren’t people I can rely on, and if they don’t add reliability or stability I don’t have the mental bandwidth for it.
I don't hate my FA, I love them even tho we're through. I don't think people can even hate other people without having some core wounds unhealed themselves. Don't take it personally. We're all doing our best x
No i do Hate u because u don’t take responsibiliry and instead of healing and researching you jump from relationship to relationship and destroy everyone in your way
I was clear and reasonable with my FA re what I wanted in the future. The best way to be is consistent and balanced any way they swing. However it takes incredible patience as you cannot be reactive ever. They did not want that future so we decided to end it.
Exactly- we are supposed to be stoics saints - yet they’re a destructive chaotic mess behaving with zero accountability for their actions on anyone else. No thanks
This video appear to me just at the right time. I was thinking how to best aproach my FA for commitment and i got the answer. But i'm ready to move on if she don't wanna pull the weight together.
My best friend is definitely securely attached. But man, from the view of the girls he was dating he probably would have seemed AP because he went fast. But his going fast was because he had realized he'd spent his life not looking for a wife, and he wanted to have a family and kids, so he treated it "like the most important job interview of his life:" He was looking for every reason to not date someone until he could find a lady that checked the boxes that were critically important to him, and didn't hit any of his red-flags or unacceptable issues. He found his wife inside of about 9 months of intense dating--dude was going on like 4-6 dates a week--made it official with her at like 4 weeks, and they got married 18 months later. They're quite solid in their marriage 10+ years later, and boy do I respect how he went about that. Wish I'd been that cognizant going about it. He would have dropped an FA in a heartbeat if they avoided commitment.
1 year together on off. Never mentioned me/ us to anyone. We'd go to dance lessons and we'd pretend we're not together. He was dancing with other women who automatically assumed he was single. And that's how he got to date the woman he'd dump me for. He's since dumped her, utterly repentant, and came back to me. But still not acknowledging us to anyone because he "wants to make sure this is going to work out". Yet, he was out with that woman from day 1 and they were living together 3 months in. I was/ am securely attached. But this unhealthy push-pull dynamics, plus the betrayal, made me very anxious.
The blanked complaint from avoidants is that they don't feel safe in a relationship and they don't know how to get their needs met in order to feel safe. It's nothing personal.
I was 46 when I got involved with my FA person. Just about to turn 51 and feel like I've wasted valuable years on someone who never committed but also wouldn't let me move on with anyone else. Now I truly feel like a middle aged man who has missed out. Hands down avoidant people are the worst, they dont seem to feel or something and certainly dont care about anyone other than themselves. If someone isnt investing in a reciprocal way just have dignity and walk away forever and dont look back.
It depends on the person too. I am FA, was with an FA and “wasted” 5 years. I’ve learned so much so it’s not really wasted😊 He was leaning DA and of course I was leaning AP lol
I'd reflect the "wouldn't let you" walk away element. Is it possible there was a lack of boundaries and willingness to uphold personal standards? No one can make you do anything you don't want to do(just like you couldn't make them commit), they equally couldn't "make" you stick around for the poor treatment... I'd revisit that internally. Could provide significant growth and improve relationships moving forward tremendously(because you wouldn't feel trapped to anyone's mistreatment).
Where is self accountability? Maybe your lesson was to learn that if someone isn't investing in a reciprocal way you need to build on the dignity and self respect to walk away? Many people repeat unhealthy patterns for a long time until that lesson gets integrated and becomes their way of life. Some people are spending so much time analysing someone else's behaviour but I wonder if they show themselves the same courtesy. Self discovery is beautiful.
As a FA leaning towards avoidant…. I need balance. You can’t be too clingy and want too much love and attention from me because I feel I’m suffocating… I respond better by sitting and talking then you nagging and nagging that you want more time and attention from me, I walk away from people who whine instead of talking. I don’t want to hear “why don’t you call me more often” “why don’t we see each other more often”… I rather like to hear “hey I really like spending my time with you and I’d like to see you more often or interact with you more often” that is like taking my emotions into consideration as well by also stating what it is that you’d like from me and from there we could make accommodations that works for the BOTH of us.
that's all very nice, but that's only when the Fa avoidant side is triggered. When their anxious side gets triggered it's a whole other story. They sure don't tend to say hey, I know you probably meant well by giving me some space since I often have a need for that and that's what I needed the last time but actually I could use some presence and comfort right now, fancy meeting up/ calling each other later? no they go full blown anger and lash out because how dare you not know this is a full moon tonight and on full moon I need rassurance and comfort! You clearly did it on purpose. I will do the same thing to you next time you need reassurance and actually no, I won't because you won't be in my life anymore, no we can't discuss about it calmly, I don't trust you and we're doooooooooone! ;))
Or when they ask why simply tell the truth and show up. Just say hey this is moving a little too fast for me and right now I just want to get know you by “xyz.” It doesn’t have to be complicated. Nothing will happen that you don’t allow. ❤
4 years of coming and going from the FA ive been involved with! Doesnt say much about my self esteem allowing her to keeping showing up the same way and trying again does it? 🤣
Wow you have me beat! I’m in month 13 now 😅 He is cycling through a deactivated time so we are back out of contact. It’s tiring but to be honest since I am now leaning secure previously was AP this is really good practice for me to keep my life balanced so whether he is in it or not I stay the same!! I’m getting pretty good at it and have developed some other friendships along the way which is super helpful!
As a longtime successful(-ish) FA whose one lasting relationship has ended due to my wife’s decline and impending death, I find it helpful to know that I am emotionally vulnerable. Also, that I must fix my flaws or I will make the same mistakes I have in the past, without even realizing it. So my better/best self can remain in the driver’s seat. If I am going to avoid, I might as well begin with healing and self-knowledge. At first I thought that I would just avoid new connections, but I know that I will go against my best intentions if I let my fear interfere with my natural inclinations. Meanwhile, I know what I must do inside before I can risk getting close enough to anyone that they could hurt ne. If I stay the course I should be able to at least avoid repeating my worst maladaptive responses. Only my fourth marriage “worked” because we got each other. But I can think of at least 3 relationships that were just another lover to me, but who really loved me but that I ran from. Any one of them better than my three priors. Only now do it understand why, and what I must do to flip the script before I try to rush natural affinties. It is a better option than messing up what could be my last real chance. And at least my current sorrows do not leave me blindly being the Bird On A Wire. -Matt’s dad
hei, could you make a video about eating disorder. i try to understend the relationship betwen an ED and the fearful avoidant style in particular the control aspect of an ED on how, when, what to eat, and the need of feeling clean when you do not conform to a set of rules, compensating that with purging, over exercise, calorie restriction. I feel that the first step is to work on this belives that this atachement holds. thx, for everting that you do, you really helped me a lot
Totally agree. I'd really appreciate a video on managing eating disorders. I have a friend who struggles with a cycle of binge-then-depriving/avoiding food and I wish I knew how to encourage and support her. She feels really bad and I wish I could help somehow.
I genuinely tried this with my FA ex in terms of committing to the relationship and not having the need to sleep with others (or, in her words, have the freedom to do so), and she would typically get defensive and say that there was clearly an expiration date on that, and my being patient was even described as being condescending. It's pretty hard.
Months?? Hell we're going on 7 years. Every attempt to hang out my FA blew me off and pulled a disappearing act. Guess that means I'm either as secure as can be or too damn nice 😆
@@zaria5785 You're right, of course, but truthfully I'm really not all that concerned about where it goes. I mostly just commented because of the time frames she mentioned and finding my situation so amusing 😉 I really just wanna help the guy by showing him some kindness and love when it seems no one else has. I tend to go about things with a "whatever will be will be" mentality. Appreciate the concern, but no worries ✌🏻🖤
No where close to being secure, a secure person wouldn’t lack boundaries or just accept being strung a long for years. You’re not helping him, you are enabling him. He never has to change because there’s no incentive for it, you will always give him what he wants without him having to try
Could you speak about not letting go? What do I do when I've said "goodbye, seems we want different things, best wishes" to an avoidant, and that person won't let go? I.e. Tries popping back in like nothing happened? For years? Wanting to recreate what was there before (that wasn't mutually working), without change. Even though I don't engage? - Is this somehow different from hoovering? I asked this with more detail on yesterday's vid in the Commitment series, but I'd love if you had any insight on this behavior! 🙏
they are disregulated. you triggered their attachment trauma. best thing I think is to have a clear conversation or two to let them know you dont want to try again. not via text.
Most of the time the avoidant pops back in not to reconcile the romantic part but to make sure there is no anger or resentment because avoidants don’t like confrontation so they want to know hey we are still cool right ? Even though we didn’t work out.
It's so hard to figure out if someone is a fearful avoidant, narcissist, or if they have borderline personality disorder. It's so sad and troubling. Especially since this happened between myself and a friend.
how would a secure person react to an FA that broke up with them due to their fear of commitment & then wanted to get back together with the secure person?
The fa I'm dealing with has been in a relationship (live together) with his gf for 6 years now. He cheated on her with me SEVERAL times! (No I did not know they were together) I told her everything and she took him back. Well he won't let me move on, stalking my social media, pulling up to my home, leaving me notes on mail box.... I ignore him and he has told me he loves me like twice. I don't know what to do anymore because obviously his gf don't care😂
@@Sabreemeplease damn! If you’re willing to share at all about the internal back and forth, whether it’s just fear or anxiety that shuts off.. would ease my mind
Thais, do you think it could be a good idea to suggest commitment to an FA for short periods of time? For ex, "hey, how about if we commit to each other for 2 months and see how we feel after those 2 months, if we're content then we can commit for another 2 more months".
I think it's a good way to agree on something with an FA without making them feel like it might be life sentence lol. We ( all of us regardless of the attachment style) sometimes have such a trigger reaction that we don't know how to get back to our partner anymore and rather call it quit. And especially FA's. If you say, ok let's agree that for 2 months we keep communicating if an issue arises. No matter how triggered we get. And at the end of the 2 months we take an opportunity to assess it and decide what we want to do next, it can be a really cool thing to do.
For me as a man. I would instantly ghost anyone who behaves this way. It isn’t my job to take abuse or be a therapist because a chick had a past. I was raised ion an abusive home and don’t go out making excuses why I hurt others and ruin good people, I keep it to myself. If you know that you are toxic, stay to yourself and don’t expect others to date you or deal with your crap.
Toxic? Just because a person has fears they're toxic? What kind of logic is THAT? You speak as if people who have their own struggles owe you something just because you're being nice and that's disgusting. If anything, you're the toxic one.
I can totally appreciate what you’re saying. And I want to let you know that I spent years feeling like the other people were the problem - as did everyone else around me! Then I started to dive into this and realized that my own attachment issues and avoidance issues from my childhood were not only contributing to the problem, but in some cases making me see things that weren’t there Not at all judging you or telling you how to be. I’m just letting you know that I’m really glad that I started to work on myself because everything gets sorted out when Ai focus on healing myself because I don’t get attracted to people and situations like that (even at work). I look back and now I think that when I was attracted to other people who had insecure attachment issues, it was just giving us both a chance to heal.
Adjusting to avoidants are hell.. theyre the devils. We shouldnt adjust, they should fix themselves before entering dating. There should be a license when ur prepared to date just like being a doctor, lawyer, driver... because people arent safe with these devils
What a nasty, hateful, judgmental, lashing-out thing to say. Sounds like you need to confront your own role in whatever situation hurt you. No surprise you got hurt by someone if that's the type of blaming shaming cruel attitude you take about people. Heck I'm a half-secure AP and I'd still run screaming from anyone who talks like you. Hope you're working on yourself because this comment does not come from a healthy place, it obviously comes from rage and resentment
@@famousse703 Why do you care about avoidants, there are 7 billion people on this planet. All you need to care about is how you feel and how you act. Your responsibility to sort that out. Your happiness lies in your own hands. Good luck in trying to police the world over something you have no control over; other people's behaviour. No one owes you to behave a certain way in order to fit your wishes. That's entitlement. You don't like the way someone behaves, move towards someone you enjoy. Judging them is only making you build resentment inside yourself. They're already over there doing their own things that don't include you and here you are giving them your energy still. They're only evil in your mind cos they didn't give you what you craved for. Most of which you're supposed to give yourself. Go meet your own needs and evil people will disapear from your reality.
