I’m an electrical contractor and one thing you can do is increase the wire size to 4 as a heat sink … the thicker the wire the less chance you have of a 50 cheap Leviton 14-50 of over heating . . Don’t ever use less than 6 though . Good video to re think that extra prong we never use !
If you're an electrical contractor then you know that the amps rating for a circuit is NOT FOR CONTINUOUS DUTY - it is for max 85% - at least here in California that's the case. Upsizing the wire isn't good enough - you must have at least 60A circuit to pull 50A continuous through it.
4 gauge wire is rather difficult to route. Not sure having three cables (assuming 2 phase or split phase) of that size will fit in a 1 inch conduit. But it is an interesting idea.
Thank you for posting this informative public service video. The heavy-duty industrial grade NEMA 14-50 receptacles (Hubbell, Bryant) are constructed of fire-resistant Bakelite rather than injection-molded plastic, and their 4 contact springs are heavy-duty with heavy plating, specifically designed for thousands of insertion/removal cycles rather than a few dozen. They also feature specially plated clamp-style wiring connections with set screws which must be carefully tightened using a calibrated torque wrench. A side-by-side comparison is compelling, and there are a rapidly-growing number of photos of melted/scorched/burned NEMA 14-50 outlets posted on the Internet. Sadly, many of these dangerous receptacles were installed by licensed electricians. Less-expensive, lower-quality NEMA 14-50 receptacles are unsafe for EV charging and should all come with a warning that they are not designed for and must not be used for EV charging applications. Given the risk, home improvement stores (Home Depot, Lowes, ACE Hardware, etc) should completely stop selling them, and online stores should be required to have detailed warnings. The national wiring codes should also be updated appropriately. No one should die or lose their home over this issue.
That said, whenever possible an EVSE should be permanently installed with suitable heavy gauge wiring rather than using NEMA 14-50. The Laws of Physics dictate that I*I*R heating occurs in wires and connections whenever there is electrical current, and today's home EVSEs draw up to 48A@240Vac (11.52kW). THAT'S A LOT OF POWER. When you draw that amount of 240Vac current steadily over several hours, the wires and connections GET HOT. Direct wiring eliminates one set of temporary connections that are likely to degrade over time and overheat with repeated usage.
The price of the Industrial Grade Hubbell and Bryant NEMA 14-50 receptacles has dropped significantly (8/2023) - about $75 - now that supply is catching up to demand. Meanwhile, lots more online reports and images of $15 NEMA 14-50 receptacles failing and melting/catching fire. Please hire a licensed, experienced electrician and consider a safer hard-wired EVSE installation, especially now that NACS is being adopted for EV charging in 120/240Vac North America, the Tesla (Gen 3) Wall Connector is a good value with a large installed base and excellent safety and reliability record.
I checked both Hubbell and Bryant catalogs and was surprised to find they don't use Bakelite anymore. They are showing glass filled thermoplastic. Not too happy about that. Eaton uses the same.
Yes, prices are triple of when I did my NEMA 14-50 installation video back in 2020. I still recommend installing the 14-50 since most EVSE use that plug. The Eaton 5754N is also a good option. The Bryant 9450FR is a good deal - thanks for the suggestion.
Great video - thanks. I actually wound up just recently buying the Hubbell. Your first video was the reason I bought it :). I wound up purchasing it from a local Electric store here in NJ and I only paid $38. I had to wait about a month for it to get into stock though. One extra cost to consider is that the faceplate for the Hubbell is non-standard. I wound up paying almost $20 just for the faceplate. Another point on the GFCI - My Juicebox 40 specifically says not to use it with a GFCI outlet. The Juicebox has GFCI built in. I believe other manufactures have the same recommendation. Also, good to know that the Bryant is similar to the Hubbell. I did not realize this.
All EVSEs should have built-in GFCI protection because you need to be able to charge outside. And I’ve heard that it’s never good to have multiple GFCIs in line. But the NEC doesn’t list any exclusion for EV charging. So I’m not sure what’s the “best” thing to do. Electricians commented on my original 14-50 installation video that the breaker should have been GFCI per code. So I upgraded it in this video ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-BixGQisysDc.html
@@handydadtv Two GFCI in line won't harm themselves or the person using the outlet. You just can roll the dice which one shuts off when something happens, if the tripping value is identical on both. Greetings from a German electrician (just randomly got your video recommended to me, probably because I looked up the type of plug well over a year ago...)
@wiedapp Hello Germany! Since EVSEs supposedly have internal GFCIs without a test button, they must do a self test before every charge. Is it possible that’s when a GFCI breaker can pop? People have quoted ChargePoint’s instructions that it should not be installed on a GFCI protected outlet.
@@handydadtv Well, that would need to be tested, I think. On the other hand: We have mobile GFCI here for some applications (worker protection mandates them sometimes, if it is not determinable if the used outlet is behind a GFCI already) and you can use them in line with a regular one. These have a test button and if you look at the schematics of how that test button is wired inside a (any!) GFCI, the test doesn't affect another one. As long as the test mode in the chargers doesn't bridge live to ground, you should be good to go. Usually the bridging via the test button happens between one output contact (for ex. live 1) and one input contact (for ex. neutral) of the GFCI, so the device 'sees' some current missing and then it shuts off. Furthermore: If your local code requires that a certain type of outlet has to be behind a GFCI, what do you do: a) follow code or b) follow manufacturers instructions and not follow code? If we here want to operate something without a GFCI, we have to hardwire it by code. I mean, we don't have building inspections like is common for you over there (please correct me, if I'm wrong), so if something is not to code no one will see it. But if something happens because of that, your insurance gets a major homerun and you get nothing... And, as I said: The only thing that can happen is, that you have to look on both devices, if there is a situation, because you can't be sure witch one trips first. More annoying than dangerous.
Good timing. Telsa just stated that they are no longer supplying UMC with car and they are out of stock on line. I put in Hubbell 14-50 in anticipation of home charging w included UMC. Wish I'd have hard wired instead. Cost of outlet+GFCI breaker+UMC that I have to order now is a push compared to hard wiring charger (I know its not a charger but...)
Watched old video and you convinced me to upgrade from the cheap Menards 14-50 to Hubbell. Went to shop for another Hubbell for my brother in laws house and saw the price....then saw Bryant and did a search...found this vid...buying Bryant 14-50. Thanks for the info! (already have the 14-50 mobile plug)
I had the Leviton 14-50 outlet from homedepot, 50a dual pole fuse, on a 1989 150a panel, with a Gen 3 Tesla wall charger. The setup created a scary humming at the panel at 48a. I figured it was my old panel causing the humming so I lowered the charge amp's to 40a on my Tesla app. Which is when there was little to no humming heard at the panel. After watching your video I replaced the Leviton with a Bryant for safety and even ordered a new 200a panel with all new fuses which is arriving this weekend (11/19/22). To my surprise the Bryant 14-50 outlet with my old panel and 50a fuse didnt hum at 40a, or at 42a, 46a, and not even at 48amps! I am still going to replace my old panel, and loving the 42mil/hr new faster charge rate. Fyi: I touched my Bryant outlet and the box it is in after 2 hours of charging and it is cool to the touch. The fuse in the panel though was pretty warm like my Gen3 charger wire going to the car. Leviton 14-50 outlet diffiantly should not be used for car charging. Though it cost me about $14 and the Bryant cost me $50 I have to say the Bryant 14-50 outlet was money well spent.
If you have a 50 amp circuit breaker, you should not charge at more than 40 A. Code requires a 25% headroom on any circuit. So for a 50 amp breaker you should not charge at more than 40 A. Your breaker was humming because it was very near the trip point.
Use the lowest charge rate necessary to recharge your daily commute. No point in stressing everything to charge in 2 hours when your car sits idle for 10. I charge at 15 amps now and it’s still typically done by midnight.
Thanks. I’ve been hearing horror stories from people who charge their cars on $10 Home Depot receptacles and have them melt. I was about to buy the Hubbell but went with the Bryant instead to replace my two $10 receptacles.
I also recommend charging as slowly as possible on a daily basis. Just because your charger can do 40 amps doesn’t mean you need to always charge at that rate. My daily rate is only 15 amps which takes around 7 hours. That keeps everything cooler.
I installed a Wall Connector when I purchased my EV. We installed a 60 amp circuit. Got a little more juice. But had to hard wire it. It was an expensive project but I only have to do it once.
Keep it in mind though that electrical codes may require you to install a disconnect switch if the charger is hard wired since it is an electronic device that is prone to failure
@@handydadtv I can't comment about whether a disconnect is required, but if a disconnect is required, the code requires tha it be clearly visible from the equpment and the distance must not exceed 15m (50 ft). Your breaker in the panel almost certainly does not qualify.
Decent video, short but to the point. My only comment is a general one; always check what is proper electrical code for your location, you don't want to do it wrong and need to rework it later.
One more tip: Spray Deoxit into the outlet (whichever one you buy) if you need to plug/unplug frequently. Deoxit DN5 can be used on live circuits since the can contains nothing that can ignite if there's a spark.
Deoxit is great and I use it all the time. Every 6 months I’ll clean my contacts with 0000 steel wool followed by deoxit to keep the terminal in good shape
I bought a Bryant 6-50R from Amazon and it works…. buuuut the ground terminal screw (flat head) stripped when I torqued it to spec of 30 lb-in. It’s been too long to return it so I’ll see about a warranty claim, but I’m planning to replace it with a Hubbell 6-50R that has the metal clamps and not just a set screw. The interior plastic housing is also white on my Bryant outlet, maybe the 14-50R is generally the same but for some reason the 6-50R has different design between Bryant and Hubbell. Honestly at this point I should really just hardwire the EVSE, but I use it at my in-laws house a couple times per month and it’s pretty handy when I do.
@@handydadtv Lol, yup. I was using the outlet in a box for the past couple months, but the box was just loose on the floor near my panel so I decided to finally get everything properly mounted and secured to the wall. On the bright side, I’ve got conduit shaped & mounted, the box is on the wall, wire is pulled to the panel and pretty much all the hard parts are done. I’ve still got the slow charger (L1 EVSE) and my BMW i3 has a gas range extender, so I won’t be totally out of luck even if I’m lazy and don’t get the L2 hooked up again right away. BTW I’ve really enjoyed your videos on this, it’s been helpful to get a DIY perspective that includes best practices as you learn more details. I’ve watched a bunch of professional electricians videos on this stuff as well - I feel like your videos complement those well and fit right in with expert guidance in a very approachable way. So thanks for making these.
Note that in quite a few areas of the country you do not need the GFCI breaker for a Nema 1450 outlet. And since the charger itself has protection if the only thing you’re ever going to plug into that outlet is a charger you are just as safe as you would be as if you installed the GFCI breaker. But it does vary by state depending on which version of the national electrical code they are currently using.
Just to add to what you've said, many have reported their charging being interrupted on GFCI breakers. My state doesn't require a GFCI breaker and, as you said, since I'll only be plugging in a charging station anyway, which has the protection, I'm fine. Now, there is indeed a VERY GOOD POINT in simply not using an outlet period. The downside is you can never unplug your device if you want to take it with you, etc.
In 2.5 years, I’ve taken my UMC on a handful of trips and never touched it. I try to choose hotels with destination chargers or I just Supercharge when needed. One time, at a rural AirBNB, I could have used the UMC but left it home. 🤷🏻♂️
One benefit of installed an outlet especially a Nema 6-50 is that welders use that plug. So you can unplug your ev charger and plug in your welding thus serving dual purpose.
Thanks for the video. I too found the Bryant outlet at Grainger. Be sure to order the matching face plate as well, as there are similar but slightly different face plates that are incompatible.
Thanks for the informative videos! I’m still convinced that hardwired is the best option, in the end. Went from 14-50 but needed the extra ~50% faster charging speeds, so hardwired Gen3 Wall Connector is the way to go
Watching your video and cracking mistakes you might’ve missed one on the plug outlet where you were showing copper wires were the insulated wire wasn’t covered completely. There was copper exposed, which could cause arcing and eventually a fire all right awesome video keep it up.
It's worth checking codes in your area. A GFCI is not required everywhere. It is true the latest electrical code does call for it. There will be a time when we must use GFCI breakers. Some portable units do a ground fault check and will trip GFCI breakers, AFCI maybe better in that case. Plug in EVSE's are probably going to be a thing of the past once everyone adopts the new codes.
Thank you!! This video answered every question I had about what is 6-50 vs 14-50, and why would someone hardwire vs use the 14-50 plug that comes with the EVs I’m looking at.
I have that same emporia charger using the 14-50 plug and had a UEFI breaker. It kept tripping for no apparent reason. Emporia support said their chargers already have UEFI protection built in and I needed to replace my breaker with a standard one. Once I did that no issues. Same deal with the FORD optional EV chargers. It specially says not to use UEFI breakers. The ford mobile charger that comes with their EVs call for a UEFI breaker.
The other reason to hardwire is that most chargers have a built in GFCI. Installing a breaker with a GFCI (most codes require it) means there are two GFCIs in series, which can cause on or the other to trip and your car will stop charging. You may or may not get a notification when this happens. Hardwiring solves this issue and keeps everything to code.
Unless you're frequently running high current welding equipment and car chargers, then regular $10 4-prong outlets from Home Depot for your average residential shop is more than adequate. They can easily accommodate 240v air compressors, table saws, and auto lifts, etc. If you need a car charger, it's actually best to just hard wire the thing.
Don't forget to check out the Federal, State & Local rebates, including the local power company rebates available when you install an EV port. The rebates can almost offset the entire cost of the high end wiring/outlets/ports, etc. Bottom line: If you are installing one, check the rebates and they will probably cover the high-end receptacles, wire, etc. anyway.
You can get Hubbell for 80 bucks still, but hard wire is way to go, safer, more power and less conductors and no plugs, thhn wire and emt conduit are about the same price as buying the Hubbell and 4 wire. Great video
It's absolutely true that using a hardwired charger cost about the same as using expensive GFCI breaker and high quality outlet. I was lucky that I installed the Wall Connector for my Tesla. It does not need GFCI breaker, look good and can run upto 40A at home.
So this particular Hubble receptacle is actually made and rated for 240volts & 50 amps. The available neutral is to run miscellaneous lights and carry the unbalance load back to the panel. It is a current carrying conductor just like the two other hot circuits. The ground is like an emergency pressure relief valve and is used infrequently during a short or arch and sends that back to the panel and to the earth to prevent the melt down of the wires and helps the breaker to turn off. All of these features are what you want. So the Hubble is a great receptacle (Plug) and professionals use them all the time… even in their own homes. Hubble makes durable, long lasting products. Of course, you should buy the appropriate plug of your choice and certainly use the configuration that the manufacturer wants you to use. To get an even more durable Hubble receptacle, get the Hospital grade which has a green dot stamped on its face. Your EV plug will get a lot of electrical excercise on a daily basis. Don’t bet your life on a receptacle that is cheaply made. How much is your life and the lives of your family worth to you? I’m just ask’n?😊
I know they are no longer used, but all my 50 amp outlets in my shop are nema 10-50 and I have never had one fail, even when running a 5 HP compressor! Most are Eagle brand but the plugs are all Leviton. Being old they seem to be a higher quality.
@@handydadtv The compressor is on and off, I never measured how much current the lathe or mill use. I just dug out an old Leviton welder outlet 6-50 and it's a lot better built that the new range outlet i have in my parts box!
EV owner since 2014 and I firmly agree with you. Most people will never have a need to unplug their EVSE so why pay extra for the socket you'll never need.
@@handydadtv I have a 32 amp Bosch Powermax. In 2014, when we purchased our SparkEV, Chevy was offering a $500 rebate on the purchase of one so I got it for something like 50 bucks. Bosch actually OEM'd the unit from Delta but it hasn't skipped a beat in all these years and takes care of the 2020 Bolt with ease.
Off topic but need you to do a video on what’s going on with Insteon or what if anything you are doing or plan on doing as a work around. Sorry like I said I know it’s off topic but you’re the first person I thought of when my Insteon light went red last week
I was dead set on a basic 14-50 outlet until I saw this video. I'm feeling lucky I saw it. I'll be looking into a hardwired solution for outdoors (side of house) that's designed to handle the sun and rain...probably Grizzl-E or Emporia.
You must be careful using the Bryant! It is only rated for 60C. The Hubble is rated 75C. You must use 60C column for conductor ampacity. The GFCI requirement is required if your AHJ has adopted the 2020 NEC. That is the first it is required to be GFCI. I totally agree, it is best to hardwire the charger. I have no idea where people came up with thinking they need a 14-50r. BTW that is the receptacle used for larger RV power connection.
@@handydadtv thanks a lot for both the videos. My electrician said he will just use a Leviton from HD but I now concerned. I am not a professional but #1 the link of the Bryant shows 14-30R; and #2 is that 60C vs 75C an issue for my Tesla M Y charging? Would appreciate if you can respond. Thx.
Both have an environmental rating in the spec PDF of 75C. However, neither device is actually marked 75C and therefore must be used as a 60C device. Both also come with instruction sheets which say to use conductors rated according to the 60C column. They are functionally and specs wise identical, and are very likely identical in manufacturing other than the stamped name. Both must use 6 gauge copper conductors in order to create a true 50A general use circuit. Neither may be used with aluminum conductors.
Wow 68 dollars then over a hundred must have solid gold contacts. Had trouble a few years back with Hubbell hospital grade 20 amp duplex receptacles. Stainless steel s crew would tighten up but needed a least a full turn to secure wall plate. Anyway heads on 6 /32 screws would break uo . They were all made in Korea. Glad that I retired 3 years ago. Last roll of 12/2 Romex that I purchased maybe 20 years ago was probably only $25. Home Depot wants $259 for a 250' coil. wow over a buck a foot.
Too late...already got it based on the previous video. LOL Only $98 back then. I had a 50A outlet installed as part of the build for our new home but I see from this and other sources they made a mistake. The breaker is NOT GFI. I ordered a Chevy Bolt (I'll not see it for at least 6 months) and thought I would take the $500 charge card. I think that I will change that to the installation offer to get a second opinion on the set up. Ya, I bought the outlet already but I've learned a lot more since and will probably remove it and go hard wired now. Good video and the price of a GFI breaker "shocked" me. LOL
Good advice. Not sure why most tesla level 2 chargers include a 14-50P when no neutral is used. Why not just simplify and make a 6-50 as standard. The only time you really need a nema 14 wiring device, whether it be a 14-20R, 14-30R, 14-50R or 14-60R, is when you have a piece of equipment that is a combo line to neutral and line to line load, such as an electric dryer or range, amount certain other equipment. A nema 6 wiring device is cost effective for line to line loads. You can then run less costly XX/2 w/G NM cable and of course wrap a piece of black tape around the white conductor to re identify it as being a hot conductor.
@@handydadtv well that's logical. I enjoy camping and of course you cannot visit and RV park and not see a TT-30R and a 14-50R simultaneously. And larger RV is obviously a line to neutral and line to line load like your house. Thanks for your kind words I enjoyed your videos.
Getting ready to upgrade to 60-Amp hardwired from 50-Amp GFCI breaker protected NEMA 14-50 Hubbell. Sure I’m spending more money on top of good money but I’ll be able to charge at 48-Amps instead of 40 Amps. In short, the EV will charge faster. I’ll save the 50-Amp GFCI breaker and the Hubbell NEMA 14-50 receptacle for another application.
I recently moved. I left the 14-50 behind and installed a wall connector this time. Although it can charge up to 48 amps, I have it set to 15 amps unless I really need a fast charge. No need to recharge in two hours if it’s in the garage the whole night.
@@NewPhase-kq1fu 2020 code removed all exceptions for 125-250V receptacles. Including things like dedicated dryer and oven receptacles. Plug-in EVSE's need to remove GFCI protection because of this, or better yet have it selectable as states on the 2017 code didn't require GFCI on 250V receptacles. Either way, doesn't seem smart to forego some kind of GFCI protection on a high powered circuit like that with a long cord and in a potentially wet environment.
@@andrewt9204 They don’t need to remove GFCI from EVSEs. Nothing wrong with redundancy. Where I am we’re still on 2017 code, so GFCI not required on 220v. But, doesn’t matter because again, EVSEs have GFCI protection built in. Not a safety issue, even in wet environments.
@@NewPhase-kq1fu The reason it is code (in 2020) is because the 240V outlets can be used for things other than EV charging. An outlet is an outlet. In fact, GFCI's have been required outdoors or in garages since 1975 (kitchens were added in 1987). But for decades they exempted 240V outlets because 240V outlets are rare (in America) and were only used for large appliances. But in 2020 this changed - most 240V outlets need GFCI now. In fact, even the washer/dryer are required to be GFCI protected now (this came after a kid was killed when he touched a faulty washer). I am surprised it took them until 2020 to require GFCI on 240V outlets. So, while it is true that EV chargers come with built-in GFCI's, it is also true that you can use that outlet for other appliances that don't have GFCI protection. I suspect this is why it is now code. With the proliferation of EV's, we are gonna see people using those outlets for other things. One guy in the comments here said his wife uses his EV outlet for other stuff. So, yes, it happens. And that's why they want them GFCI protected.
One advantage of using a NEMA 6-50 receptacle is that you don't need to run the unused NEUTRAL 6-AWG wire from your panel to the receptacle, and it makes it easier to tuck the two 6-AWG hot wires and the 12-AWG ground wire in the back of the box.
You can get different versions of those outlets by different manufacturers that are just as good. You can get here in Canada anyway a NEMA 14-50 that is meant to mount on a 4 11/16" box, a "Stove Receptacle" it's called and are worth about $6 or so at a supplier.. Could also get a "50A welder receptacle", NEMA 6-50 surface mount receptacle, prolly worth $15, maybe $20.
Other manufacturers are not just as good LOL. Just weigh the receptacle. Brass contracts vs steel, heavy duty terminals and contacts for lower heat resistance and performance. I will pay and extra $50 vs burning down my garage and $60K EV car
If a neutral is needed you use the 14-50, if not the the welder plug is fine. What is most important to me is how the wires mount and the structure of the plastic, seen lots of broken and burnt ones, they were cheaper.
Thanks so much! relatives shopping now for new EV, and having price shock re the Hubbell! I'm not sure all codes require GFI breakers for EVSE plug-in install... The Tesla charge cable doesn't always work well on GFI outlets either, as it has GFI built-in
@@handydadtv NEC 2020 Section 625.54, which covers electric vehicle charging systems with regards to GFCI protection for personnel. The protection requirements have been expanded to require all receptacles installed for the connection of electric vehicle charging to have GFCI protection. The previous requirements of single-phase, 150 volts to ground or less, and 50 amperes or less have been removed. These changes were made to clarify the intent of providing GFCI protection for personnel and all cord and plug connected electric vehicle power transfer equipment, regardless of phase, voltage or amperage ratings. As I understand it all EV chargers have built in protection. So ADDITIONAL GFCI is totally un-necessary however I would still consider it if the cord could lay in the rain or somehow a connector or adapter could be connected before the GFCI part of the circuit is connected then it may be a hazard. I don't know how every different EV charger is designed so it should really be case by case.
Incidently, didn't realize it was so hard to find a specific faceplate for a nema 6-20R in a 2 gang (at the same place I'm buying everything else). A miele iron needs it. It was a 2gang because we originally planned for a 30 amp plug. I knew nothing about it so kept thinking I had the right one but turns out the holes were wrong.
I am installing a Tesla wall charger. I would like to have a Nema 14-50R as back up. I don't want to spend the $130 on a GFCI breaker 50A. What will happen if I just use a regular breaker?
If you’re getting the wall charger inspected, don’t install the outlet until after the inspection. Worst case scenario (other than potential electrocution) is a home inspector might flag it when you go to sell the house.
Second worst case scenario: you have an electrical fire and the insurance company doesn’t pay out because of code violation. They WILL investigate before settling, rest assured; it’s standard operating procedure.
@@DanielinLaTuna I learned that when you deal w car accidents, or insurance companies, you need to get a lawyer. They get you to buy insurance by promising you a bunch of stuff. And when the claim comes, they don't want to pay. You need to get the right lawyer.
@@handydadtv I am shocked and dismayed that the Bryant NEMA 14-50r is not rated for aluminum conductor.I thought all good quality receptacles would be rated Cu/Al. I am of course gong to return it. Do you know of another better quality 14-50r that is rated for aluminum? I could pigtail the aluminum, but the rated connectors for connecting aluminum to copper are expensive in the size required for 4 AWG aluminum.
One comment I would make about the use of a hardwired vs. portable EVSE: If you go with a portable EVSE, you will have to install an outlet in your garage, but with a portable, you will have the option to use it at any RV camp ground that has 50 amp (NEMA 14-50) hookups at the campsite pads. I have in fact charged my Prius Prime at campgrounds several times, albeit with the Level 1 charger that came with the car, but that was because my Level 2 EVSE has a NEMA 10-30 plug on it for the laundry dryer outlet in my garage, and you will never see a 10-30 outlet at a campground. The fact is, that the NEMA 14-50 is the de-facto standard for L2 charger power supply. Because homes built before 1996 mostly have NEMA 10-30's for the laundry dryer power, you can find EVSE's that come with a 10-30 plug, but they are limited to 16 amps. That's okay for a Prius Prime or an older Chevy Volt, but woefully inadequate to charge a Tesla, Bolt, Hyumdai Ionic, or Leaf. You need a 32~40 amp EVSE to be able to charge these EV's with big traction batteries in a single overnight session. At 16 amps, it takes 18 hours to charge a Tesla, and that's no good if you need the car for a daily commute to work. So the old 30 amp dryer outlets in pre-1996 homes are not really an ideal solution for EV owners with 50+ kilowatt-hour batteries in their car. In researching portable Level 2 EVSE's on Amazon, I found that the vast majority (85%) come with NEMA 14-50 plugs. There are 3 or 4 brands that are available with NEMA 10-30 plugs, but these are all limited to 16 amps. I found only 1 that comes with a NEMA 6-50 plug. It was a 32-amp unit, which is good, but because of the limited demand for EVSE's with 6-50 plugs, it was $399, whereas the exact same brand and model of EVSE with a 14-50 plug was $299. And if you ever think you might want to charge your EV at a campground, you would be far better off with a 14-50 plug, and that's the universal standard for motorhomes and large travel trailers that have 240 volt air conditioning units. Smaller RV's generally come with a TT-30 plug on their shorepower cable, but that's a 120 volt line, not 240. Now there's one workaround for this situation: Install a Bryant NEMA 6-50R in your garage, and buy a portable 32 amp EVSE with a 14-50 plug, and an adapter cable that's got a 6-50P on one end, and a 14-50R on the other. You have the benefit of a less expensive outlet installation in your garage, a 32 amp EVSE that you can use at any camp ground, and that will also work at home with a $25 6-30P to 14-50R adapter. Also keep in mind that if your circuit breaker box is more than 10 feet from where you want to install the new outlet, a 6-50 outlet can be wired with 6-2 Romex, costing $4.50/foot at Home Depot. If you go with a 14-50 outlet, you will have to use 6-3 Romex, which is $7.50/foot. That extra cost adds up fast if your run of wire is, say, 30 or 40 feet.
Good info! Thanks! FYI, technically my Tesla portable charger can charge at 32 amps max, but I reduce the rate to 15 amps because that’s plenty to recharge my daily commute. Very few people drive 250 miles a day.
You completely missed the point of these videos. Adding an additional pair of connectors and using smaller gauge wires is NOT the way to go for everyday charging, it's dangerous. Convenience is nice, but physics is physics and connector spring weakening and plating wear all but guarantees connector overheating, particularly with long-duration, maximum-current EV charging sessions approaching 12kW, a tremendous level of power. If you don't believe us, ask any of your local firemen.
@@handydadtv Utilitech does make industrial nema 14-50 for just under $11.00 Now I also do prefer Hubble over the rest of the available brands. Some applications just do not require such heavy grade devices, and an EV charger is one that does not have to be overkill. While it never hurts to try and up-sale something. You need to take every situation into account. Yes we would all love to drive a tank down a freeway but not very practice.
Question for hard wired installation and avoid outlet, is it ok to just just use a 60 A dual breaker from Lowes or Home Depot? Or do I still need the $150 dollar breaker? Sorry I'm just a little slow. I did buy the Emporia Charger. Thanks for your video and alternative.
What RV weatherproof enclosure with fit the larger 2.4" diameter of the commercial grade 14-50? The faceplate on most housings is for the smaller off the shelf receptacles.
If you're going to hard wire, then put in a 60A breaker!!! Then you can charge at 11Kw instead of 9KW. Code says you can only draw 80% of the circuit's rating for continuous duty. So with a 50A breaker you have to set your charger down to 40A draw, which is 9KW. But a 60A breaker is enough to let you draw 48A< a full 11.KW> (Not alll level 2 chargers can draw/charge that much but SOME do - and they MUST be hardwired if over 50A.
Why? Most EVSE units max out at 40 amps. Most cars max out at 9.6 kWh as well for AC charging. 99.999% of home owners will never even benefit from a 40 amp EVSE.
There is no car that charges at 50A. The code asks only for 40A for car chargers. 50A is already a really good over head. Tesla home chargers, or most chargers will max out at 48A, but never really get there. 9kw/ hr is typical. Not the rated 11.5kw
So if the fourth wire is not used, why do they make so many chargers with this 14-50 'extra-wire' plug rathher than the 67-50?...and what IS the purpose of the fourth wire?
The fourth wire is a neutral. They didn’t create this outlet for EV charging. I’m not sure why it became the more popular choice. Perhaps because it’s popular for RVs at campgrounds.
When you were showing the first series of videos I didnt know/understand why they didn't offer the option to hardwire. Why even offer plug in for the charger? If you move every year, it may make sense.
Why an outlet instead of a charger? Well, an outlet is a selling point for a house, and even more so in the future. IN addition, things other than EV chargers can be plugged into a 14-50, such as a RV or trailer.
I installed a nema 6-50 at my parents house. We did this in case the EVSE ever fails. That way they can replace it themselves without having to call me or an electrician. Looking back though, it seems like EVSE's are pretty reliable and probably wasn't necessary. But they do like to go camping, so they can bring it with them to charge at an RV spot. Just had to buy a 14-50 to 6-50 adapter.
@@handydadtv Correct about their website. There’s a chance Grainger would ship the right one. But I found it at ImperialSupplies. Interesting enough IS just drop ships from Grainger so go figure. Same price. So if anyone else is looking for it.
Pedantic guy here: The thing on the garage wall is not an EV Charger; they are properly called EV Supply Equipment (EVSE). Literally all it does is wait for you to make a secure connection to the car and then internally flips a switch which energizes the two 120V hot lines of your NEMA 240V outlet (or direct wires) onto the two supply pins that plug into your car. The cars include all the smarts for charging themselves.
Because of the high amperage an electric vehicle charger uses , It would be more safe to hard wire the charger instead of using an outlet because there is less chance of overheating , With an outlet , The connections on the prongs won't be near as tight as compared to the screw connections So using an outlet , The outlet may start heating up , So when the charger is operating , You need to feel the outlet and the plug to see if it's heating up If so , Turn off the charger and unplug it Feel the prongs of the plug and if they're hot to the touch , It is strongly recommended to remove the outlet and hard wire the charger If you are installing a 220 line for an electric vehicle charger , Definitely hard wire it instead of using an outlet , You'll save money by not having to use a GFCI breaker and you'll save money by not having to buy an outlet which is prone to heating up
@@handydadtv thanks. I thought in this video link it was a Hubble outlet you were working on with the torque setting of 75 lb-in. Is it the same for Bryant outlet terminals too?
If it weren't for Harvey Hubble you would still be screwing everything into Edison's light socket. Oh, and by the way, Harvey also put that pull chain behind Edison's socket so you could turn it off before screwing your appliance in. Edison sued against both inventions and lost both times. Hail Harvey.
Why not hardwired it on all levels? If you move out, you cap the box. These plugs are a risk due to the constant amps for hours. They just create a weak link. I would do it even for a 32A set up.
Thank you so much for this video. I just purchased the 14-50 Bryant outlet and the face plate following your link. I was going to get the Hubbell wall plate as recommended until I saw your link. What about the electrical box? Any standard box will work or need bigger one?
@@handydadtv An EV circuit then requires a ground circuit but that's a planned circuit not a requirement of the electrical flow. In the US the power supplied to the house is 120 it is not a 240 circuit like in Europe, hence for the flow of electricity you don't need the neutral or the ground. -MG
Question: are you sure that all EVSE's have on board electronics which are 240V native, and do *not* require the 120V circuit provided by the neutral missing on the 6-50R?
None. You’d need to hardwire anything over 50 amps. But honestly, there’s no need to charge that fast if your car is sitting in the garage all night. I only charge at 15 amps on the daily.
@@handydadtv why do they advertise Level 2 charging at 19.2 kW which implies 80 amps? We charge our Chevy Volt 15 amps (pretty sure that's what I wired in). But, assuming a full charge is needed for a Lyriq, at 15 amps it would take over 28 hours.
@rand49er You’re not going to recharge 100% of your battery every day. I use around 30% a day so I don’t care if it takes 10 hours to recharge overnight. Slower = cooler = safer. I have no idea why they claim you can charge at 80 amps. The max home charger I’ve seen is 48 amps and that needs to be hardwired to a 60-amp breaker.
@@handydadtv There are some hardwired 80 Amp EVSEs (Grizzl-E I believe makes one) but it's a gimmick for 99% of people. Most EVs max at 12 kW charging - some of the early Teslas can do it (not like they had much choice with the state of the DC fast charging networks in 2013) and some really high end/really big EVs can do it, but 99% of people don't do enough driving to justify the expense of a 100A rated circuit and fewer still would have the panel capacity to use all that power.
For circuit breakers, you need to stick with the brand and type for your panel. No specific recommendation for wire, but some places require conduit instead of Romex like I used. Check local codes.
You really should still use the GFCI/AFCI breaker even if hardwired, just to provide some fire protection in the event you get a leak or other issues crop up in the garage.
@@handydadtv Not needed by code. But it's a garage, so you really want to protect the wiring and the connection point before the internal GFCI. Also the AFCI component will protect you against accidently hitting the wiring in the future with a drill/screw. From a Design perspective, it's always better to have the protection as close to the source as possible (panel/subpanel.) I'm an EE that does hardware design at the industrial level. Electrical code especially on the residential side is just the bare minimum level of protection required. It's okay to exceed it.
@@DaveAtUofL Hard wired EVSE's have their own GFCI, including periodic ground checks. They send out a ~20mA signal to ground. If your EVSE is connected to a normal Class A 5mA GFCI, it will trip. I know it's a sensitive topic for some, but every state should just adopt the 2020 NEC so EVSE's can stop providing them internally. Or, EVSE's need to have selectable GFCI option, so if your circuit was installed on 2020, you can turn it off.
Thanks @HandyDadTV for mentioning this. GFCI is not needed or wanted on hard-wired chargers as GFCI is built-in to the charger. Please read the manufacturers instructions that comes with the charger you select. (For example see page 4 for the Tesla wall charger) And you do not want to have 2 or more GFCIs, in series, on the same circuit as random false triggering will occur. The last thing you want is find out in the morning is that your vehicle didn’t charge overnight due to an unhappy GFCI. You also do not want to put an arc-fault breaker on this circuit. This too can create false triggering. This is why no one puts AFCI on air conditioners, air compressors, electric dryers etc.
Not everywhere needs one of those GFCI breakers. Even if you're in an area that recently required it and you're in a bit of an older house, you can install one without GFCI and claim it is "grandfathered in" (just make sure you do it yourself or at least not hire some licensed electrician).
Me too, I got one from Home Depot for under $10 last week. It was similar price when I installed the charging station at home the first time in march 2021.
