Huge Squid Game Controversy | Sad Boyz 

I just want to say that as a trans man it's very gender affirming to hear Jarvis talk about his gynecomastia surgery

I love how Squid Game is explicitly a critique of capitalism and how the elite will take advantage of the lower class and treat them as nothing more than entertainment, and then Netflix ignored all that and made a reality show. It's like when the Hunger Games movies first came out and everyone was focusing on the love story for Katniss instead of y'know, children being murdered, which is exactly what was happening in the book.

Gender affirming care should be covered for everyone, even the cis.

i love when cis people talk openly about their own gender affirming procedures because they can be helpful for everyone

I like how Jordan is conserving his energy by rendering at a lower framerate

The whole point of the original Squid Game series was a critique of the lengths people being crushed under capitalism will go to in order to find relief. It’s discouragingly unaware to then go and make that a reality show, let alone then try and cut corners in production costs and mistreat contestants to save money.

Jarvis's framerate being slightly off is giving me into the spiderverse vibes

based of jarvis to refer to it as gender affirming care, cause it like normalizes this, and makes it not just "a trans thing", made me super happy to hear as a trans person myself.

It is not charity to pay people for their labor. The people on this show are performers who did a job that is generating revenue for somebody and they deserve to be compensated for it. I just assumed that they were all being paid to hear that they weren't is insane. It's completely unconscionable. How is there not a lawsuit yet?

Fun fact: the rock also had to get that opperation, he even had to wrestle for months with a shirt on. Hope that makes jarvis feel a bit better

I'm glad I'm not the only one who felt kind of weird about this being a gameshow.

Regardless of whether or not you win, regardless of whether or not they're screening specifically for people with sad stories or difficult situations to exploit, they are performing, it is labor. Even putting aside the getting hypothermia on the tarmac thing. The idea of anyone in these types of shows not being compensated at all for their hours upon hours of labor is insane. It should be required they pay people.

The bootstraps phrase was originally actually a critique of people with the attitude it now represents and the point was that it’s impossible

As someone with an anxiety disorder I can really empathize with Spencer; whenever I have a panic attack I get incredibly nauseous, and half of the time I do gag and eventually throw up, and it’s painful on the stomach, the literal meaning of stomach churning. I can’t imagine having this kind of reaction in front of hundreds of constants, actors, and crew members, then having that moment seen and mocked by millions of people, it’s an utter nightmare.

It's insane how they didn't realize it was a bad idea to make a squid reality show. The second episode of squid game, where they get to escape from the horrifying games and live there normal lives for the entire episode is literally titled ''HELL"

Jordan explaining the torture of the shame cycle that comes with executive dysfunction with that thirst analogy resonated so deeply with me. This podcast offers such important neurodivergent representation and visibility. ❤️

As a cis guy with horrible body dysmorphia and gyno (debating surgery for years) I am so relieved to hear Jarvis talk about his experience.

This podcast is so unmistakably ADHD coded. "we lost the plot there" is what I say every time I try to tell any story. God bless

Loved hearing Jarvis talk about his surgery! I'm a cis woman who had a breast reduction back in 2018 and I relate to the feeling of thinking about it every single day and being so happy I did it. Even though you'd think the opposite for someone like me, it did feel very gender affirming somehow.

The whole "I don't want to think about my body" part was put so well, that's something I go through almost every day and that put it into words perfectly

2 and a half hours with the boys?? I’m so ready for this

Honestly I think it would solve so many problems about reality TV if participants had to be paid an hourly wage - even minimum wage would be a start, I just can't believe producers think it's ok to have these people working 24/7 for free

i was watching the squid games challenge today and it was almost upsetting watching people's hands shake during the dalgona challenge like they were actually going to be shot. the way they'd break into tears when they succeeded. it just felt...strange. it was so bizarre

As a nonbinary person it makes me feel so much more validated to know that Jarvis got gender affirming surgery.

hearing jordan struggling to describe the guy skipping over joey scenes got me cracking up, if I were there I wouldve cried laughing too lmaooo its just too absurd and unexpected

Yeah, the show was wild. I appreciate y’all’s thoughts and kind words. If you guys have anymore questions about the show or want to connect with other competitors, let me know. I deeply appreciate your content

Trans guy here. I started watching y’all towards the beginning of my transition, and today I had a dysphoria-related spiral and when I was coming out of it the first thing I saw was your video. Thank you so much Jarvis for talking about your experiences with gynecomastia. I know our experiences are very different, but hearing these creators I look up to so much talk honestly about these issues is so healing and affirming. Ty for being a safe space I can always come to to cheer up ❤

The squid game gameshow is a perfect example of a phenomenon I named: "the Robo-cop effect". It's a specific ludo-narrative dissonance I've noticed in a lot of media. It's when a piece of media with revolutionary/subversive themes and is subsequently co-opted by the oppressing group (usually capitalism). The original media keeps the revolutionary themes in writing, but the media has become what it originally fought against. (Robocop originally has strong anti-capitalist and anti-celebrity themes. And then executives made a Robocop children's animated show, a concept that the original movie criticized)

one of the worst things about squid game the game show is living with the knowledge that I would absolutely put my life on the line for that kind of money. that is not only life changing money. that is life MAKING money. I would LITERALLY never have to worry about money again. I hate the things that I would do for that money, all while the producers have ten times that wealth, and I think thats what makes this show so cruel. edit: also those bunk beds are terrifying. I have a crippling fear of heights and if I was assigned a high bunk I would not sleep the entire time.

My mom works at a university and her staff ID gets her (and her immediate family) free bus fare. I think every single employer should cover the cost of commute.

I fell out of my bed laughing when the jump cut from 2:05:02 happened because Jordan goes from lounging to deeply staring into my soul. XD

My philosophy is: If people are working and providing you monetary value, you should pay them

Coming back to this video to say I just got a video on my tiktok for you page of a woman describing her experience on this show. Her screen name was simply her first name and then her three digit number. It felt incredibly dystopian in a way I don't know how to articulate.

I appreciated the talk about body image and medical choices. As a dental student I can also say orthodontics are so powerful for changing someone’s self image and it also can really help with the actual function of their mouth; whether it be with chewing, grinding your teeth, etc… I wish it was more accessible here in the US. It’s outrageous how little is covered by medical and dental insurance.

Jordan losing his shit at telling the Wacom man story is tremendous. Stories with uncontrollable laughter are the best.

i’m a trans guy who just got top surgery and i’ve been wearing the post op compression top and it’s mentally so different than a regular chest binder. it really is that i finally feel connected with my body like never before that i don’t even care about the current discomfort from the garment

The Squid Game reality show is somehow the fundamental distillation of everything wrong with reality TV, and TV networks as a whole.

really cool to hear jarvis talk about that surgery and how similar a lot of the related feelings and experiences are to mine as a transmasculine person

Your description of Squid Game made me realise there's some allegory for the Korean War in there with the financiers being mainly western capitalists using and causing korean suffering for their own entertainment.

It's so interesting hearing about the gynecomastia as a trans guy-Jarvis describes dysphoria really well. I distinctly remember watching Jarvis's super long BOTW streams while I was just recovering from my top surgery, so his voice is always associated with post-op euphoria, to me :)

not wanting to Be Aware of your body is the biggest mood; I'm a cis woman & I Want Them Off for similar reasons!! there's a way I want to look+feel that I can't even achieve by binding, and it definitely makes me a little >:/ about being perceived at all by other people, or even just. existing in physical space, lol. love when I get to hear about someone Dealing With something that was bothering them like that + reaping the benefits !

i so deeply love jordan's laugh attack here 56:58

I get that the justification for having these contestants on without paying them or compensating their time is the potential 4 million reward. But I think that is a flawed one, these contestants are supplying the entirety of your plotlines, drama, everything. You do not have the show without them. They deserve some sort of base rate or payment for appearing on the show with then the potential to win the reward, that pays for the time and investment many of these people have to give in to just appear on the show and hopefully does a bit more on top. This shouldn't be a 'You should be happy for this opportunity' type situation.

Thank you Jarvis for being so earnest about your gyno surgery. I’m still early into my transition and have been considering top surgery. Top surgery is intimidating and very stigmatized, it’s affirming to hear your perspective and satisfaction with the procedure. I really appreciate you and Jordan empathizing your support for trans people.

Jarvis: He's got a great name....uh... Jordan: Jor-dan? Me: Nice, brother.*Raises hand for high five*

Hey this is a really beautiful episode I’m a woman and I feel like it’s so hard to reconcile literally hating the body I’m in bc it doesn’t feel like it belongs to me and divesting my mentality from the systemic pressures of ableism and fatphobia I haven’t figured out the solution to this reconciliation but it’s nice I’m not the only one who just doesn’t feel like the ideas connect

thank you for thinking about the squid games in a real life way instead of a detached viewpoint. I listen to Cody and noel and I really like them and have nothing against them but the way they talked about it as a reality show instead of the original squid games being created in real life makes me a little sick to my stomach. the fact that the show even is able to exist in real life is not a funny thing, its a critical failure of the system we live in to provide for those who are struggling.

I make fun of rife's appearance specifically cuz he very constantly is *telling* us he's attractive and I don't think he is. I do see a funny correlation between the same people who say "comedians tell jokes get over it" and "attacking his appearance is uncalled for" -- I think he can take the comments if he's making "apology bait" that is punching down unapologetically. by his own logic he needs to get over it.

I super love how authentic and open you are about your mental health and general body stuff. I think it's really important for dudes to normalize both doing the feelings and body stuff. Your generation really is helping society progress.

There's something in there about how it's not "life threatening" physically persay; however, mentally?? Totally different story. And quality of life should play a bigger role as well.

thank u for so eloquently explaining how gender affirming care doesnt exclusively extend to ppl under the trans umbrella jarvis!!!💖💖💖

Jarvis, thank you so much for illustrating that spikey moods could be fixed by medications... I'm gonna bookmark this to fight my executive dysfunction and try harder to find a psych that will take my new (late 30s!) ADHD diagnosis seriously. I teach HIGH SCHOOL and I get like that and I am AWARE I am cranky and damn if those kids this year aren't on me about it. (They are very kind, but it is sad to hear that they notice when I'm not in a great mood.) It sucks to be aware of it and not know what to do about it.

Maybe the 100th episode was just the friends we made along the way 😔

It’s not charity, these people are providing the entertainment. They are essentially performers… they should just be paid for their time, especially when they have to take off their primary income. Say what you will about mr beast but he paid people to quarantine, paid people a rate to be in the shoot, and offered a prize to pretty much everyone even if it’s not straight up cash. I live in the town he shoots around in NC and he treats his shoots very professionally

i think the matt rife update is particularly funny bc hes got so many clips of how if someone says something mean about him he tries to make them cry and how he'll hit them back way harder than they hit him but that was the best he could do to a tiktok surgeon

I mean the squid game gameshow is just the definition of a lack media literacy, they could copy all of the subject matter really well but somehow missed all subtext. Or I guess they just don't care.

It makes me wonder if Netflix even watched their own show.

Thank you for chapters ❤ some episodes my feelings aren't ready to handle others' so it's nice

as someone with an eerily similar combination of adhd/depression/anxiety symptoms as Jarvis i can't overstate how encouraging it's been to listen to u guys :,) just started my own treatment recently and it feels like we're on the meds journey together lol

Happy to say Sad Boyz was my top podcast this year, listened for around 23k minutes. I'm determined to make it my top podcast again next year! This podcast means a lot to me, and I dont expect Jordan and Jarvis to ever see this but hearing the sad boyz talk about their feelings has helped me to get better at expressing mine. This pod has gotten me through a lot of really tough times and I cannot think everyone involved enough for all of the effort they put into this podcast.

I got a hysterectomy yesterday to both treat some ongoing medical issues and also affirm my gender and it’s so nice to hear from some of my favorites about normalizing gender affirming care.

Kind of wish they did "Squid games: The resort" and had 10-12 contestants on a swanky resort, so it could contrast against the challenges. you could then get to know the constants better, and for those who don't win at least they got to have cocktails in a spa or something actually nice instead of frostbite and lost wages.

I will admit, never watched the original Squid Game and I only watched the reality show because a deaf creator I loved was involved. Jackie, player 393. She’s an awesome content creator and has a small business with her sister. She wasn’t included until the last half of episodes besides the opening, probably because she didn’t bleed into the storylines the show wanted to pursue until the last few people were remaining. In the end she didn’t make it to the finale and although I’m glad she was included as a deaf person of color I feel like I would have wanted her perspective in the earlier challenges.

making it a reality show misses the whole point of the actual show and its kinda(very) sad...

the segment about “if your throat is so dry but you cannot get up for water it is not laziness” part by jordan helped me, as someone who’s about to go on antidepressants the validation about needing meds in your podcast is always so comforting

Them missing the point of Squid Game so spectacularly that they feel compelled to bring it as close to reality as possible for the public's entertainment, is giving me major vibes of the end of Black Mirror S1E2 lmaoo. *SPOILERS:* It ends with the guy trying to get out of basically enslavement via the talent show thing, losing his cool and delivering a highly raw and emotional speech about freedom or wasting their lives away or whatever (it's been a while since I've seen) with a shard of glass or something to his throat, only for the judges to find it new and edgy and give him his own platform anyway because it entertained them - but then he just becomes a character delivering edgy speeches on a screen with no depth, and gets to move to nicer living quarters, but still doesn't actually get out and continues to perpetuate the system by keeping the other prisoners'/slaves' minds numb with the trivialization of what was supposed to be a genuine message and call to action, in the name of shallow entertainment. But yeah. This is giving me "real-life version of those vibes" vibes lol.

Jordan laughing about the guy watching Friends is my new favorite thing.

I personally suffered from gynecomastia since puberty and listening to you talking about what it was like living with it was like staring into a mirror. I was so self conscious and was something that I would think about every. single. day. It honestly hindered my willingness to have intimate relationships. No matter how much weight I lost and how many people would tell me how good I looked, I still saw myself completely different. Getting the surgery was one of the best things I could have done for my self esteem. It was definitely more for me than for anyone else but I’ve had no desire to get another surgery and the feeling of having this issue no longer plaguing my mind was truly something I’m grateful for. Thanks for sharing your story. And thanks for affirming we’re all simply living each others lives lol

26:53 what jordan said about meds allowing you to be happy instead of making you happy immediately is SO true and i'm SO glad someone mentioned it!!!! it took me so unbelievably long to find the right meds & a pretty big reason for that was because i wasn't immediately feeling better (spoiler: i wasn't doing literally anything else)

Matt rife strikes me as a man i wouldnt trust to be alone with my drink

im in top surgery recovery rn and i've been listening to all the sad boyz patreon episodes i've missed cause of school so it's cool that this is the epsiode where jarvis talked about having a similar surgery :-)

What worked so well about the honeycomb segment of squid game was no one knew what they were picking shapes for In the challenge of course no one wants umbrella, the element of surprise is no longer there, if they wanted that reveal to still work sort of they would've randomly assigned the shape instead of having them choose.

I recently closed the gap in my teeth as its been something that made me really insecure my whole life. I stopped smiling as much and was hyper-aware everytime I spoke or laugh. The mere thought of someone even looking at them made me panic. Now that it's closed the people closest to me are constantly telling me they miss my gap or asking me why I closed it. The comments are a little frustrating because people are mourning something that has been a source of anxiety for me. Although I wouldn't wish that feeling on anyone, it's so reassuring to hear my feelings being expressed by someone else and being validated in them.❤

Shelley Duvall on numerous occasions pushed back against the rumours of Kubrick abusing her through the process. She was definitely pushed too hard, but she insisted that it had been played out by media. Hard to say if that's a response as result of the abuse or not, but I thought I'd mention!

Even in Who Dunnit a game shower murder mystery that had ginormous death scenes of their contestant who have an exit interview with the contestant because some audience members thought it was real.

Jordan’s feelings on EDS are literally word for word how growing up with EDs I also felt and and feel now and that’s really great to hear someone else express that exact feeling of “selfishness” even when it really it’s stupid is just really great to hear thanks y’all love the feels love the other things also!

Re Squid Game's production: Amazing that on a show where people are expected to be put into torturous conditions, they did not do a thorough, thoughtful construction of what literally any medical help would look like. The moment it's needed to a degree that they can't tastefully hide it like anything else that makes us feel for these people as actual people, they have to throw together some impeding plan that put their cast at real risk over profits and "good television." This absolutely doesn't work as a reality show with the way they're not allowed to, y'know, violate their cast's rights to safety and life for a big sack of money.

Jordan's sitting position changing so drastically at 2:05:03 is cracking me up.

i was in the top 1% of worldwide listeners on spotify. i genuinely thought i didn’t listen that much this year since i’ve been binging multiple hour long youtube videos in my free time instead.

So when i first watched squid game i did so purely from an entertainment, like, ooh fun horror game show perspective and honestly i didnt like it. I was actively comparing it to Alice in Borderland which has similar mechanics but is done on a much bigger scale and i loved that show. Then i watched commentaries and learned more korean and more about korean history and culture and i really came to appreciate it as a work of art. I started really thinking abt all these little details and how so much is being communicated thru every choice the director makes. When i watched it again, it was like watching it for the first time… and i loved it! Now its one of my favorite shows. To see it turn into this is… devastating

Matt Rife gives me the ick with how he responds to criticism

I think the squid game show could gebuinely be an interesting premise if, 1. They DIDNT BASE IT OFF SQUID GAME SPECIFICALLY And 2. The contestants were paid actors who did literally compete for real but acted out everything in between. A sort of grim dark game show where the pretend the contestants lives are at stake and play into the theatrics of it, almost like wrestling, while having the contestants actually competing for real seems like a genuinely interesting premise

Squid Game The Challenge is almost a better critique of capitalism than the original Squid Game itself, truly remarkable how severely misinterpreted the message was.

Feeling so old listening to y’all describe iTunes 😩 I’ll never forget the true joy I experienced getting an iPod + an iTunes gift card, I miss those days lol

This has been maybe the hardest year I've ever had. So thankful that I found Sad boyz. Congratz on 100 episodes!

At first i honestly thought it was a legitimate second season of Squid Game with an "American reality tv" spin

1:09:43 I walked away from my computer and this was auto-playing when I got back. For a split second I thought Jarvis and Jordan had Matt Rife on the podcast and I was really confused.

The debate about plastic surgery surrounding Matt Rife sucks. I’ve had jaw surgery - maxillofacial surgery - that completely changed my face and made me more conventionally pretty. I have had juvenile rheumatoid arthritis since I was 3 and it had severely damaged my jaw. It’s very common in girls with JRA. That surgery was such a huge life changing experience that I’m still sensitive about. Hearing people demonize maxillofacial surgery has been extremely unpleasant. Thank you so much for pointing out that just because Rife acts shitty doesn’t mean suddenly we can all comment on his body. People can’t be pleased - if someone doesn’t have a nice jawline or chin, they’ll make fun of that, but if they do something to fix it, they’ll make fun of that to. Criticize Matt Rife for appropriate reasons, not anything and everything.

1:06:06 Matt rife has made multiple body shaming comments towards women.(Chad Chad has a video showing that) It seems like he uses edgy comedy to lash out at others, but is very sensitive when he is treated similarly. Maybe he is lashing out at others because he has body image issues and he is jealous of confident women? (He thinks people hate because they're jealous. Also doesn't justify it) He's also been very ableist. It bothers me how he's continuously punching down on people who are already treated poorly systemically. I dislike hypocrisy and unnecessary cruelty to vulnerable groups.

Its actually quite easy to make film and tv productions ethical and not inhumane. It just costs money that studios aren't bothered to front up. Extra long hours and harsh working conditions (wether emotional or physical etc.) Are actually unacceptable imo.

ive never heard someone explain their body like Jarvis did and honestly it brings this positive energy to me to hear, "i want my body to be something i take care of and exist in, but i dont want it to be something i think about" ME TOO!! ive never ever heard someone contextualize that feeling

You guys talking about iTunes makes me soooo nostalgic for 2006. I miss it. 😭 I will also age myself and say that RealOne Player was my absolute go-to before that and it took me a long time to make the switch. 😅

Great to hear y’all talk about medication together in this way makes me(and other depressives) feel seen.

Grief is a cycle, not linear. Sometimes shows up as a bigger cycle, sometimes smaller but it’s always there with no end point. Your healing is a buffer around the cycle. xx

I started watching an episode of sadboyz and now I'm 3eps in and I love it. Don't usually like podcasts, but listening to two genuinely decent people talk about mental health and relevant topics is so enjoyable

lemme just say: the whole health update stuff is so... validating. I have had trouble with depression and meds and executive function and having my routines disturbed and just hearing people talk about it - especially people I percieve as successful - makes me feel like less of a freak. And i havent even listened to *most* of the episode yet!

Jarvis thanks for talking about your experience with exorcise and weight. Hearing you say “I don’t think about where I’m not, because I’m on the path.” And “I got in shape before”, has honestly changed my mind set. I used to go to the gym 3 times a week before 2020, and I haven’t been since and have been hesitant because I’m not in the shape I used to be. This is motivating me to go back and make my body more able again!

The walk through memory lane via iTunes is amazing. Mugglecast, on the go playlists, syncing your iPod with someone else’s iTunes…I love how strange things feel now that once were so mundane that it wasn’t even worth talking about most of the time

It's like they thought the only thing wrong with squidgame was that people died, instead of the really psicological torture of the whole ordeal

I decided to watch the squid game show, I agree with everything said about it, but i wanted to say that gganbu gang made me smile so many times throughout the show. 232, gramps, was such a kind old man, and i was so happy to see him continue through most of the show. Those guys were the saving grace, they always chose honor over wins, as any good person should.