The biggest sin committed by Snyder's DC movies was deleting Henry Cavill's charm. Watch that guy in interviews! He is a genuinely perfect choice for Superman and he was directed in a way that eliminated the natural charisma that radiates from him. Seriously, he's pretty charming.
As you got to the underwear bit, I was struck by the thought “Joel Schumacher understood this point. He understood how important it was to add levity, silliness, dorkiness, to not take oneself too seriously.” And I miss him even more now, because if he were still alive, I’d start a riot to see him and Snyder, forced to make a DC movie together, with exactly equal amounts of control. It would create the perfect movie. Plus, the documentary of the behind the scenes would be amazing too.
The problem with Schumacher was the total 180° that was done with the franchise and gawdaweful writing. If the writing been just a *bit* better and the shift not so hard it would've been better received. People REALLY liked Burton's edge lord Batman. But he was well written
A "manhunter" is a detective, J'onn was originally called "Manhunter from Mars" and he was published in Detective Comics, he's a detective, his name means he's a detective; and I hate that writers forgot that and make it scary
It would be like if he was called the Martian Dick. Nobody calls detectives that anymore, so it wouldn't make s wer nse if he called himself that anymore with that explanation.
@@DylweedWasTaken11 that's not what I meant, I meant he's a fucking detective and I'd like it if someone focused on that instead of making convulated explanations for his name
@@DylweedWasTaken11 I'd produce a movie titled Martian Dick, but that would absolutely not be R-rated, we are so going for NC-17. Full frontal martian nudity, this is what we need, this is what Hollywood needs.
Martian Manhunter is my favourite superhero. I like he idea that he can fit in a noir story, or a world ending story equally well. A common vulnerability means a normal thug with a 2 penny pack of matches is a threat but he is also powerful enough to go toe-to-toe with the likes of Black Adam
16:35: *THANK. YOU.* I HAVE BEEN SAYING THIS FOR YEARS AND NO ONE SEEMS TO LISTEN. You can’t assume your audience knows the characters onscreen when you’re introducing them. *Especially* when you’re doing a supposedly alternative take on said character.
@Ryan Richards which would be an almost valid point if the Snyderverse was an Elseworlds story and not an adaptation. Elseworlds stories are experiments with characters to examine how they would function in a different setting, like an alternate future like Kingdom Come, a different time period like Gotham by Gaslight, or even a different region like Red Son. In any case, there’s a clear distinction that this is not the story we know. But apart from that, if you’re reading an Elseworlds comic, it’s a safe assumption that *you probably already read comics.* The problem, like Scott says, is that Snyder wants to have it both ways. He wants to make his own moodier versions of these characters while also expecting you to have enough knowledge of them already to fill in the gaps in storytelling. It’s contrived and lazy character writing.
@@supermagnumable his vision of what? Of already established characters. That is called an adaptation. I swear I yet have to meet one Snyder fan that is not at the same time completely obnoxious or condescending while saying something absolutely ignorant or stupid.
Dude, all that stuff you said about the author's responsibility to communicate properly, that was 100% accurate. I'm a writer myself, and I pride myself on writing stories with deep ideas that are understood easily without rubbing it in the reader's face. Writing is a careful craft, where you have to linger on important ideas, not hide them behind a bunch of obtuse language, yet also not exposit every detail. That's the real way you can tell a good writer from a bad one.
The irony of the “reader must do all the work” mentality is what is a story but a form of communication? If the message isn’t clear aren’t you failing at that communication?
This might be the only video on the internet that utilizes James Joyce's 'Ulysses' to advocate for wearing red underwear on the outside. Scott, my dude, you are a World Champion for this one. Amazing work. Three cheers for approachable, silly Superman!
Honestly, the scene you described sounds awesome, it would have been amazing to see. Kind of wish we did. Also, Superman being a big smiling dork is kind of like the perfect description of him.
I would personally have preferred if we got the underpants in the real film... I think the trunks are an important part of the character, this is a good fix. superman is a big softboi himbo and I love him. he is just a big wholesome boy.
@Zac Adkins yeah yknow it's a basic rule of art. Break up colours to make a design more readable. It also makes a character less named by giving them a clear shirt, trousers, boots deviding line.
@@ianleex6874 yeah you are Technically right. The trunks don't change the characters. When done well the red belt can be just as effective at breaking up the colours and can also look really good. I think Superman is a character bound by wholesome optimism and the trunks would be/are a great encapsulation of the character in our current year. All the other trinity heroes have changed a lot, Batman wears armor now to protect his body and the classic blue cape and cowl of before are long gone. Wonder woman no longer has the leotard and now wears the skirt to show her more amazonian warrior side that has been adopted over the years. The trunks while silly looking give off an aloofness to the man of Steel. A fact that he knows its a little silly but the cape and trunks have a way of putting folks at ease. It adds a hopeful youthful innocent look to him that just makes me smile. When all these other heroes end up rejecting some of their design elements in favour of a more realistic look superman still rocks a pair of red trunks.
@@dignerds With our hero still in muted colors, and continuing from Scott's point that in Snyder League blue=evil black=good it's the battle Superman pretty much loses while the US military attacks him as well Zod's army. In the final battle, where Superman wins and the military is working with him it's all dark with only one dramatic lighting moment for Supes to get a power boost.
I thought you were going to say Superman shows up in the black suite but with a red cape. That would be kinda neat, combineing the human and the kryptonian suits together.
I loved your Bob Ross video, it made me cry. And I cried knowing your painting was just for you and that we'd never see it and I'm tearing up now when you trolled us. Thank you for your work.
Oh wow, that's actually a great solution! I always thought that Superman being shirtless in the movie was only because, well, people love a shirtless beefcake like Henry Cavill. If his burial suit could be shed off of him, why the heck did his pants stayed on? Again, because we just were assumed to come to see Superman because it's Henry Cavill. A beautiful guy, indeed, but hm... 🙃
*I love the story you made; I would change one thing.* *Instead of the morning sun powering Supes, it makes him aware of who he is. He apologizes and has a fast chat with Bruce, he hugs Lois, and finally he flys away into the sunrise. We see the JLA fighting and losing, cut to superman basking next to the sun with his eyes closed reflecting on his fathers words. We see Batman cry out "Clark!". Supermans eyes open in an instant and fly to earth in seconds through meteors, leaves a vapor trail in the atmosphere, and smashes through the evil fortresses wall.*
Personally I would have him power up, fight the League a little bit. Then, he rises into the air, prepares to heat vision his buddies, then he looks around, sees his city, his friends, his girlfriend, realizes what he's doing, and kinda... wordlessly recoils at how he's acting, then flies away
24:45 That revelation actually made me burst out laughing. The setup and the way you said it, and then I thought "Well... Yeah.. I guess that does fix it." and then I literally burst out laughing.
The way I read into the whole black suit was more of a change in superman where he decides "he's not gonna die again holding back" and instead when its needed he won't hold back to protect himself and the ones he loves
My take on the black suit is that it was supposed to be a sort of juxtaposition to the Man of Steel scene. While yes, that suit was framed as something that would lead to tragedy, here it is actually flipped on its head and is instead being used to bring hope, cause that’s what Superman does. Dude could probably rock up to a battle in his pajamas and he’d still invoke a feeling of hope. Snyder also pointed out that the black suit was meant to actually represent Superman’s character arc, where he felt as though he needed to earn the red and blue suit that his father entrusted to him. It was apparently going to take two movies before he got the classic suit back which would’ve been symbolical of the Man of Steel we all know and love being truly back. Unfortunately, it seems unlikely that we’ll be getting to see that due to Warner having 0 interest in the Synder verse, which is kind of unfortunate but I’m still happy we at least got to see the Synder cut at all.
Personally, even though there wasn’t much to imply the significance of the black suit in the film, I liked to see its significance in the crest on the chest of the suit. Sure, most of the suit is black and has more of a darker feel to it, but the crest of the House of El stands out so much more to me in comparison to the traditional red and blue. Because it is a bright silver color against the deep black of the suit, the literal symbol of hope stands stronger than before, especially and conveniently in a time where sections of the world have that giant, silver symbol planted on structures for everyone to see. It also somewhat reminds me of an explanation for the symbol of the Kingdom Come suit, where the red of it cuts through the darkness behind it as a further symbol of hope. Also, I think that the change Scott made was pretty genius. I will say that I am unsure how Lois would have acquired the black suit to bury him in or why the suit with the classic trunks would stand out to Superman (regardless of how great and cheesy that design choice would be), but I think it would work really well to hit pretty much every check mark the fans wanted. Black suit after death, it greatly increases the absorption of sunlight, and it ends with the traditional red and blue suit. Overall great video, and glad to see Scott with his first video of 2021 almost halfway through the year!
A cool visual technique for showing the ability of the Recovery suit would be if it retains it’s slightly shiny appearance in lower light, but turns completely matte black and almost formless like Vantablack in direct sunlight. Showing that it activated to absorb ALL light that hits it and allowing none to escape, like a black hole! Then later on during the end of the movie the fight takes place in partial light or night time so the suit could look normal and Hollywoo shiny again. That would be pretty dope, especially if the ‘S’ glowed a tiny bit or something… I also agree on ditching the cape unless it was obvious that the cape acted as extra surface area for sunlight.
This is such a good analysis of Superman. I've been saying for a long time that his greatest power isn't his strength, but his ability to inspire others. And yeah, his costume is a huge part of that. His black suit worked for his resurrection in the comics, sure, but the red and blue with always be the colors of optimism and joy. Another great video, Scott. You knocked it out of the park once again! Also oh my god I was not prepared for that painting twist at the end.
I love watching you again, we missed you. Aside from the video, wich is excellent content, I wanna point out the extreme production value overhaul this channel got. I loved the editing, I loved the photography, everything was amazing. Thanks for making quality content for us stranger nerds on the internet!
What I think the intended idea was that 1. As suggested in the ship scene, it represented both his human and Kryptonian sides. It symbolized Humanity through the black (as stated in the book he read). Meanwhile, black also symbolizes the Kryptonian heritage, meaning black symbolizes both human’s humanity and Krypton at once. 2. The other part is that at this point in his character arc, I get the sense that all he wants to do is be who he really is, pure like the black suit. The Red and Blue was chosen by Jor-El to be a symbol of hope on his new world. But perhaps Superman is no longer trying to be this godly symbol for everyone to look up to. He seemed to be fighting with that idea in Batman V Superman, and now that he has died in order to achieve that ideal, it is no longer the center of importance for him. In contrast to that, the Justice League’s purpose in bringing him back was because he was a symbol of hope and, well, muscle power. They still saw him as that but Kal-El didn’t. He still wanted to do what was right, save the planet but also represent that he is the cross of both heritages. A symbol of his innermost identity, but perhaps not be the ultimate symbol of hope. 6. Lastly I’ll also say that in Man of Steel, Kal-El’s nightmare suit and Zod’s zuits both being black could perhaps not exactly be a symbol of Krypton but of their goals to keep or restore their respective cultures. For Zod Black represented his people, but all he wanted was his people back to give himself a sense of purpose. The black represented his connection to restoring his species. Kal-El wore black to represent humanity in the time of Earth’s genocide, showing his struggle to keep human kind alive. Again, being symbolic of the innermost intentions of these characters.
34:12 Going to assume that I fully fell for the misdirect. I was expecting you to say the Black suit, but adding the red cape to have the hybrid approach. Well played :D
The black suit represents his humanity because his grave was marked with a silver S on a black background (unlike his dark vision costume which was wholly black so it’s not the same suit). It represents his humanity because it represents the fact that he is not invincible like everyone believes. It shows everyone that even he can die, just like them. It contrasts the power of his Kryptonian side with the mortality of his human side. To be clear I don’t know that Zack meant it this way, but that’s how I see it and it makes sense to me.
You're incredibly astute. That's exactly what Snyder intended as per an interview with Esquire magazine: ESQ: Except for when they do. True. What's the story behind Superman's black suit? Snyder: It comes from Death of Superman of course. But I'm also into this Robert Bly book The Red, White, and Black. The white of naivety, the red of anger, and the black of humanity. I just felt like the black suit is really symbolic of that as well.
I’m so glad to see you’re back and doing comic book-related videos again! I’ve missed your content and I’m stoked to hear you talk nerd to me on a regular basis!
As a Snyder-bot I really enjoyed this video. I always love how you approach things you dislike or such and it's always fun and in good faith. I really dig your rewrite idea a LOT
the initial script that had the black suit probably also had some context for it. that wasnt what got shot because wb wanted bright and colorful superman. so when zack retroactively added in the black suit, he wasn't able to add in that reasoning. mainly because henry wasn't available for reshoots.
Steppenwolf in this movie reminds me of Magog in Kingdom come. Who was described as an excessive and ugly rob liefeld design. Steppenwolf came straight from the 90s with his spikes. He’s just missing a massive amount of pouches
I think that the suit represents the endurance of hope most of all. In the dark of the whole suit, the dark and the fear that can bring someone down, however, you can still see the symbol of El, the symbol of hope. That even in the darkest of moments hope can still live in those moments. Zods suit is all black while that little speck of white on Clarks made all the difference in the belief that times would get better. That one day people could look at today and say it's a good day without reservation.
I don’t know… that’s a pretty dark suit. Can’t really make out the S. I think they just wanted the brownie points. Pandering is pandering. Not always down for good reasons but eh. What are you gonna do?
@@AnimatedTerror It's a silver S against a black background, any more shiny and it would have stood out like a sore thumb. I think it was done just right.
Meh.🤷♀️. The S doesn't become a symbol of hope just because it was exposited. There's nothing throughout the DCEU that _shows_ that it is a symbol of hope. We are only told so. Through all the many movies all we hear is people complaining about Superman .
The black suit in Man of Steel isn't identical to the one in Justice League. The S is more prominent, pops more because of its silver shade. You know where else we see this? On Superman's military coffin in BvS and on the giant banner in London in Justice League. This Silver S with a black backdrop is how humanity chose to remember him. I thought that's why he chose the suit 🤷🏼♂️ I thought it represented the version of him that humanity finally accepted.
so do you really think he's strong enough to make a difference? oh yes he can make a difference alright. but its not just how strong he is. he has this incredible feeling about him. when he's around you feel like everything is going to be okay. and with him it always is
18:46 While Superman may be powerful enough to take down the league seconds after he's brought back to life, he didn't know what was happening. I know that you brought up that he was disoriented and was still powerful, but I believe there's more to it. After getting his memories back and talking with Lois and Martha, he says that the league brought him back for a reason. Now, he has no idea what's going on and is going into battle blind against someone who may pose a serious threat against Earth. Superman knew this was a code red emergency if the league wanted to bring him back to life. So, he has to make sure that he's bringing in enough extra strength to make sure that he could help the league win.
You know... I really do love that there’s so many people who love Superman the same length that I love him. He honestly gives me so much hope that I can truly do something, do ANYTHING in life, accomplish ANYTHING. Superman has made an impact in my life, maybe not as big as Spider-Man, but he still truly gives me hope and has changed my life, in a positive manner. Plus he’s also an entire immigrant story, so the fact that some people don’t catch that honestly upsets me since literally anyone can see themselves as Clark. Like how there will be a black Superman soon, which honestly I’m excited about because more representation for the black community. And if anyone says, “why make it political?” I will drop kick you in the throat. I digress; Superman gives me hope, and the trunks on the outside is iconic and should be used again.
The thing you said about presenting a 'new' version of a character while using the audience's preconceived notions about the old version of the character CAN be done (and is often touted as one of the major advantages) in a particular form of writing: *Fanfiction*. As a lover and writer of fanfic myself I'd never call it a lesser form of art, but I do know *you can't write major blockbusters like Dark Angst AU Fanfic*. (Also me, commenting on a video a year late? Yep.)
I'd be ok with the black suit if the film explained why he needed it. He walked past a red and blue suit, but chose the black. Why? The film never explains it and he honestly didn't need it. He technically came back at full power so what's the need to regenerate?
You know what would be better? Black suit at the start, but as soon as Superman's punch lands, BAM! Red trunks. Or maybe entire red suit, i don't know.
I sincerely hate you for making me dislike that awesome looking black suit. Let alone the tear you made me shed during your description of your version of Superman's return.
This ain't bad. One thing I'd add to that last scene would be the aspect ratio changing to widescreen... as the threat of Steppenwolf and Darkseid slowly goes away with Superman bringing back hope to the world.
Ok, his solution would get the movie to make me cry. And I was actually thinking "oh, no, he's revealing the painting? Already??" and I have to applaud, that was top tier trolling. The video was amazingly put together as always. I watch in 2x times speed, but the video didn't feel like it was long regardless of that. Completely the opposite of Ulysses.
It's pretty ironic that Snyder says that he believes every image must have a purpouse and symbolize something when most of the images in his movies are the way they are just because they look cool.
Best to what I can tell, the intention is less on the suit and moreso on pushing the symbol, which is white/light grey and thus evokes feelings of resurrection and new life. The black creates a heavy form of contrast, thus emphasizing the symbol. I imagine it works better grayscale, or at least better than the colorful suit, and Snyder’s “vision” was for the movie to be 4:3 grayscale for some reason.
Yeah, in that moment Superman is supposed to be "evolving" from this dark and conflicted hero into the symbol of hope and optimism he was always meant to be. So changing Superman's colorful costume into a dark one to signify this change is....well....it's very weird and doesn't really make sense.
Dang this is such a good idea, I kinda wish we got this, as a big Superman fan this would’ve made me so happy to see and my parents and brother probably would’ve had to hope that I wouldn’t get loud when we all watched it for the first time. The only thing for me here (it’s not a problem with the idea, just making that clear) is that whenever I imagine how this looks in my head, I don’t really imagine seeing the red trunks because I’ve seen an edit of the DCEU suit with the red trunks and it doesn’t really look right, I know why you chose this but when I thought about this, instead I thought of the suit we briefly saw in Shazam, with the brighter colors and the red on the belt because from what we barely saw, I personally loved how that suit looked. The only way I can think Superman would get this with this idea mostly remaining intact is that maybe the stuff in the Kryptonian ship still happens like you suggested and the ship’s AI suggests that Clark puts the black suit back on since he took it off for actual clothes but Clark instead decides to adjust the suit himself, so he asks the AI how to change the suits color and he changes it himself to how he wants it, he’s not going with the black, he doesn’t need to heal up now and the suit being Kryptonian in origin is enough for his Kryptonian side and for his human side he could just repair his suit from BVS but he’s done with the darker colors for the red, blue, and yellow, so he brightens the colors up and adds a new touch with the red belt and from there everything goes how we saw but with the suit from Shazam (though maybe with the fake muscles being toned down to be more like how they were in Man of Steel or better yet just not being there cause I don’t think Cavill really needs that and we’re not in the 90’s anymore why do we keep getting fake muscles with DC suits lately)
Lemme throw one other idea...Superman is choosing his wardrobe, and is sombre because he doesn't think he deserves to wear the blue and red trunks. He lost it for awhile and isn't ready to go back to normal everyday. Perhaps he's processing a stage of grief? Like a vampire first reawakening, and finding they can't resume normal life. Perhaps one day he will be ready to wear that costume. But for now black suit will do.
And I understand that, by the time the decision to turn the suit black had been made, so much of the shot footage was already so set that they couldn't CGI these fixes in. But I wonder how much more sense it would have made if Snyder was allowed to shoot with the black suit from the beginning. At the very least maybe he wouldn't have CGI'd-in a cape (that they then couldn't un-CGI away for whatever reason).
Scott....you wonderful content creating jerk! why would you give me this wonderful alternative to the dark suit situation when it can't become reality! I LOVE your version so much better! the impact of the trunks!
I kinda just figured that his ship had a bunch of alternative suits on board just in case he needed to replace one, and superguy just grabbed a random suit and went off to fight as soon as possible
Was just looking for something to watch-very excited! EDIT: I'm a Brit and even then I've not got that good a tea routine-top marks. Also you, forgettable? As if lol. Lovely too see you again with more great work
Here's another interpretation I have regarding Clark Kent wearing the black suit - the black is symbolic of Clark Kent remembering and internalizing the wisdom of his 2 fathers, who now encourage him to "show them who you are." And in a lot of these stories that take on mythological elements and epic heights, black resembles the hero becoming more confident, wise and powerful. Another great example of this is Luke Skywalker in Return of the Jedi. He had internalized his experiences from Empire Strikes Back and, in turn, became more wiser and capable as a Jedi. Likewise, with Clark, after internalizing the experiences from MOS and BVS, he had become wiser, more confident and far more powerful (which is partly why Steppenwolf wasn't a fight for him; just a light feather tickle contest).
Maybe Superman taught he would need the Black Suit to absorb more power to get even stronger than he was before cuz he prolly knew he might go up against Darkseid or His Entire Army
The theory for him wearing the blue suit in the nightmare sequence is cause it takes place in the josstice league universe but thats just a theory. You can thank matpat for that one.
I think another problem with the "it was in the comics" argument is that, yeah, the suit has a bunch of special powers in the comics and everything... but why is it black? It's not black because it "absorbs solar rays", it's black because it was designed in the 90's and having your characters wear angsty black was in style. Because the real problem here is "Zack Snyder used this really angsty outfit for what was supposed to be a hopeful scene", and pointing out "but it's the recovery suit and it's more than just a normal costume" doesn't get to the heart of that. It's an in-universe answer to an out-of-universe problem.
