As someone who quit being a doctor, I fully understand why she wants to quit. Is life draining. Making that much money is useless when you are not home for a big part of the day to enjoy it.
Absolutely. But I feel like if she gave it up completely she might feel like she doesn't mind it at first but when reality sets in that she basically spent all those years going to school and paying off debt only to make virtually no money from her degree. So I feel like she's got to find a middle ground where she stays plugged in either take some time off or reduces to doing like telemed two days a week. I'm a PA that just paid my loans off and if I was in her position having just paid off my loans, I would absolutely have to at least stay plugged into some degree to avoid feeling like I wasted so much time
Agree. Seems like she desperately needs a break. Also during this time i imagine it’s so stressful to work in medicine. If she reduced for a while she may find it appealing.
@@ThatDoll25 She can still have a break but it would be wise for her to keep the license by practising. She could work part time. Such as doing the odd evening and full saturdays.
I do not understand this at all. I understand taking time off or switching jobs, but to go through all of that education and training, paying off all of that debt, and then just quit? That is baffling. Just take a breather and then go back.
People who don’t work in healthcare don’t get it. It can be psychologically damaging after a few years. Go part time. Reset. When kids get older you can always pick up more hours. Best of both worlds without pissing away over a decade of your life you worked hard to achieve.
Agreed. As a nurse I can tell you some physicians don’t get the credit they deserve. They are some of the hardest working people out there and the money doesn’t even come close to being a main reason to do that
Yes. Healthcare is exceedingly difficult, especially today. I left clinical practice to work in sales and it’s much easier. I keep my license up just in case but can’t see myself going back.
She’s a mom of 3 and a Dr - in America the “normal amount of maternity leave” is 6 weeks. No wonder she’s exhausted! Go to part time and you you will be 1000 x happier - great advice!
Wow, this call was interesting. I can’t imagine putting in all the blood, sweat and tears it takes to be a doctor then just walk away from that. It sounds like she just needs to step back and reset. I wish her the best.
Dave's assistant is wrong; doctors aren't motivated by a desire to experience the thrills of the profession. They're motivated by a desire for money and social status. Quite frankly, we would all probably be better off if the job didn't pay so much. That way, we wouldn't have so many of the wrong kind of doctor.
@@azores15 If you have a job that requires that much dedication, education, and competence, then at the end of it all you only get paid an average salary, 90% of doctors would never go to med school. We need more doctors, not fewer. While money can create perverse incentives, not compensating adequately also creates poor incentives.
@@nichtsistkostenlos6565 As it pertains to medical school, there's no good reason applicants should have to spend four years getting a university degree. The pre-requisites should be sufficient. And it's not the public's fault that residents are overworked and underpaid. That's all just hazing.
@@nichtsistkostenlos6565 And I never said doctors should be paid an average salary, just that they shouldn't be paid the obscene money that most of them make. Remember, it isn't a victimless crime - the money doctors are paid doesn't grow on those proverbial trees. Somebody has to pay it, and that somebody is everyone who's paying those outrageous health insurance premiums.
It's refreshing to hear that she is willing to live a modest lifestyle and stay home with her children. I'll bet she is an exceptional physician....but her mental health and well-being (and that of her family) are far more important than a hefty paycheck. Every career decision is revocable. I admire her!
Many women find themselves in similar situations. If I could go back and do it all over again, I believe I’d fight to be a SAHM and wife rather than going for higher education and becoming the breadwinner.
Agreed! I also think the key here is that they paid off the 300k so now she can live whatever life she wants. Often times, we say we want to live a certain way but ultimately can't because some may have loads of debt which then holds everything back.
@@auomi8762 who knows..She may discover a way to use her skills differently..maybe counsel med students.contribute to her rural community..encourage highschoolers toward a better life.. since I grew up in a small town I can attest to the fact that I didn't even know about a lot of jobs that existed so I didn't pursue educational possibilities toward other directions
@@cadavison easier said than done. Time, brain power, stress, and money have all gone. And for nothing? It's hard to justify walking away after such a sacrifice.
I dated a physician resident, and she was saying there are a lot of people in medical residency that want to just pay off their student loans and then quit.
One thing that strikes me about the situation that they didn't mention is that she worked her tail off all that time to pay off those student loans...and thus didn't actually get to enjoy the benefits of making all that money. No wonder she's burned out! By all means, take time off, lots of it, and when you do go back, finally start using those hefty paychecks for some fun. One day's work buys you dinner at the fanciest restaurant in town. Two weeks of work could buy you a week's vacation in the Maldives. Get yourself something flexible and start enjoying life!
@@johnSmith-uz8nl true. But I paid off my cc and tore it up and have never looked back. Bought my home cash. I have zero debt and big bank. In a laborer and a high school drop out. Life is good
@@PInk77W1 Wanted to add... becoming rich is not about the size of your shovel, it is about how much you can save each week/month and investing those savings wisely. I became a millionaire on a very low salary.
I would follow Dave’s advice. As a healthcare worker I understand the burn out. I took off three months after working like a mad woman the year before. Now I work two days a week and I am very satisfied with my life.
Sometimes when the level of burnout is severe, it is healing to look for mundane, peaceful tasks that still keep you busy, but don't require so much mental energy.
My grandmother raised a family, worked her small farm and worked on other small farms. She is lucky that she is a doctor because there are part time options with that profession.
Exactly! And no. Your education isn’t a waste. She seriously can pick up her work anytime she wants. The worst case scenario is that she won’t be making as much as her peers or perhaps need to do some extra courses or training. But no way was her education a waste as many falsely seem to think. There’s nothing wrong with taking a break and being with your kids!
My mother stayed home and DROVE ME INSANE! I begged her to leave me alone and get a job. Do something! Staying at home and cleaning and feeding kids is a horrible way to spend your time.
@@lainedoss2734says you, but you don’t realize and appreciate what you had I don’t think either, it’s sound like you resented her for all the wrong reasons
She kinda gave the impression that she was done with the idea of being a doctor. Honestly, she did the work, studied and paid off the debt. She can 100% retire early if it doesn't make sense for her and the kids. It's great to see a new caller be responsible with their choices! Hope the best for her and her journey as a stay at home mother.
I think this is the first comment that gets it, a lot of the other people think they understand how stressful these situations can be but that's because they are only focused on the money.
I hate to slam reality on you, but thats not how it works. She did the work to start her life, what was the point of going to school, just to pay off the debt? Now is when she should get after it.
The exact thing can be said for most high level professions. Engineers, lawyers, construction project managers. Most really high functioning people find it difficult taking vacations or just relaxing. It's call conscientiousness and *not* especially unique to the medical industry.
There are a lot of careers that MDs can do outside of a medical practice. Clinical trial research, medical affairs for a pharma company, medical writing... Many of these jobs can be done remotely.
Oh she said $190K lol She’d make SUBSTANTIALLY more base, & total comp and be able to work from home Some other roles than what mentioned above: medical science liaison, pharmacovigilance, safety science/medical safety, outcomes research, epidemiology, pharmacoepi, project/program management, so on and so on
I am a doctor, and when I first started working I also started a family right away (because school took so long I was getting reproductively old. I did not want to leave my baby and would of made a choice to stay at home if I could of. It was hard for all those young child at home years. Now that they are in school I’m so grateful to have work that makes a difference. It’s a calling, but so is being a parent. Praying helps no matter what you
This is what worries me when professional woman say they want to quit and stay at home. It's a really difficult situation but a person who is wired to work hard and be busy is going to be depressed when their kids gradually don't need a stay at home mom anymore. Also if there's any issues with the marriage they're now financially dependent on their husband.
@@littleripper312 you know you can work at least part time when the kids are in school, right? Leaving your kids with strangers all day to make more money than you need is not ok. It's greedy. That applies to moms and dads. If dad is more nurturing and mom makes good money, he should stay home. Nobody should be blaming women in this but somehow the kids well being is always forgotten.
@@staceystrukel1917 we are all doing the best we can with what we have. Life is complex and ever changing. Lots of prayer is the best guide to navigate the many work/life family dynamics, and the changes that happen over time. What seems like a blessing one day can turn into a curse another. In a complex, long game it’s hard to say what is right, and what is wrong.
Well, the other big question for students aspiring to be doctors is, "Is it all worth it?" I know of doctors whose parents told them not to go into medicine.
My dad told me not to become a doctor. He said it wasn't worth it. But grass is greener from the other side. Sometimes I wish I had chosen medicine though... Not sure a corporate life is better than a doctor life... Perhaps my dad didn't experience how life was like for others who aren't doctors
I quit working thinking I would NEVER go back to healthcare, but nothing else would 'do it' for me. I am not a doctor but I agree with the idea that healthcare workers in general are wired differently and tend to be workaholics.. its easy to get back to too much work, even with a break. I took some time off, went back part time, then went back full time..
@Lesbian Mustard Bottle you don't understand the personality of a Healthcare worker of any kind, doctor to technician. Your comment is so wrong. sincerely a Healthcare worker
Why not take a year off to breathe and go back? Especially if you have the savings for it. Going to school to pay the loans off and quit right after seems like a waste.
It's alot easier said then done. Sure it's the mature thing etc to do a job you hate, but most people don't understand the vileness that people through at you when you are in Healthcare of any sort. From CNA to Medic to Doctor. It's why people are leaving the profession and there is a shortage of medics Nationwide. It's not worth putting yourself in danger or dealing with the mental abuse you deal with on a consistent basis. And no. No one gets into Healthcare thinking they are going to be an emotional punching bag for patients, co workers and those they work for.
Amazing video, A friend of mine referred me to a financial adviser sometime ago and we got to talking about investment and money. I started investing with $150k and in the first 2 months, my portfolio was reading $274,800. Crazy right!, I decided to reinvest my profit and get more interesting. For over a year we have been working together making consistent profit just bought my second home 2 weeks ago and care for my family.
@PilouBen However, if you do not have access to a professional like Clementina Abate Russo, quitting your job to focus on trading may not be the best approach. It is important to consider all options and seek guidance from reliable sources before making any major decisions. Consulting with an AI or using automated trading systems can also be helpful in managing investments while balancing other commitment.
Just take 3-5 years off eventually when the kid is grown up a little she will get bored. She should go back it’s normal to be burnt out especially if you were paying debt off so aggressively. Take a break and get back into it in 3-5 years
This is the best solution. She will have enough with Kids once they are a little older and autonomous, she will be a little bored and would want to do something else with her life. Just take a break and come back to it in the future.
She needs to maintain all her certifications, and keep a foot in the system. Healthcare is not always forgiving to people who take time off because they do not know if you have kept up with your skills and knowledge, definitely easier on the nursing side than physician side.
It could very well be a case of post partum depression. I hope she does what she needs to do to live a long, wonderful life. Raise the kids and when they all are in school, perhaps get back into medicine.
I’m a lawyer. I can’t wait to be done with student loans in 2-3 more years because the stress of needing a high paying job feels suffocating. The higher the pay, more often the higher the stress. I’ll always want to be a lawyer, but I want to be able to have the option to take a $70/80k a year job. I may stay at my job, but not having the option is rough.
She will miss it if she leaves completely. I have treated patients since 1997 and took a break to write books. There is a lot of satisfaction in helping people. But people can be really mean and make you want to quit. The majority are nice, and have no idea how horrible some patients can be. It is hard to get over it when you dedicate yourself to helping people.
Dave Ramsey saved my life ever since I found his content. His philosophy, belief and life approach was everything and anything. Great episode with Kristina, I hope she finds her balance in well being. Money is one thing, family is another but a service to health is also something to keep top of mind. Happy holidays all! ☺️🎄❤️
She took on the responsibility of the debt and owned it. She paid it off. She put herself in a situation where she earned freedom. I hope she takes the break - she earned it. She can always go back after spending some time with her children.
Am i the only one who could stop working today and be perfectly fine for the rest of my life finding other things to do? I always hear people talk about getting bored. Nope im good. Ill go do things I want to do.
@@VHale-yz7hcno offense to you but I am 23 (almost 24). I have a masters and have been an engineer for about 3 years but have been doing engineering things for as long as I can remember. I absolutely love my job but if I didn’t HAVE to do it meaning that I was set financially for the rest of my life, I ABSOLUTELY would not be working. I would still be working on projects on my own time when i feel like it but I for sure would quit my job. There are so many other things I rather do and that’s coming from someone who’s entire life is centered around his work.
Don't quit! HOW ABOUT TAKING SOME TIME OFF??? I know your burnt out but you also have stress in the household too! Take Time to really plan this out...
Like Dave said, she's put in a tremendous commitment in both time and financial resources to get to where she is. I think she should also ask herself if, now that the weight of the debt is gone, will there be a renewed sense of purpose or enjoyment in the work now that she can work for her own and her families benefit. She's no longer working for the debt.
@@nmuganda1 okay but what do we tell men to do that are burnt out and need a break? We tell them to man up because they have a family to take care of. She needs to do the same thing I’m sorry to say it but she makes WAY more then her husband so it’s either that or they make way less money…
My mother was a M.D. too. She married and never finished her og-gyn 'specializzazione' as we had in Italy. She was a stay at home mom and she always regretted it. There never were financial troubles at all, her marriage was good but she always hated being just a mother and a wife. She always told my sister and me, do whatever it takes but hold to your profession while having little kids. They will grow and leave you alone in an empty nest. Plus, even if it was never her problem, she always nailed on us: never ever, for any reason, give up your financial indipendence. You must always be able to earn on your own enough to support yourself if god forbid needed, even if your husband earns more than you do. Thanks mom, you were so right.
@@icawn why? She was a stay at home mother to please her husband, the general view of the period since her husband was earning more than enough and also due to contingencies. Thst was it, since after married she relocated from Italy to South America. I understand now she was also very weak more than once and later she regretted it. She loved us and took very good care of us, but she was never really in peace with herself. Problably she was smart but in the '50s and '60s she didn't have the gut to assert herself.
I believe when we make a decision and feel unhappy with it the automatic assumption is that we made the wrong decision, but that is not always the truth. My mom, like yours drilled into my head that I should find a good profession, stick with it, and maintain financial independence. I have a good, intellectually challenging, and high paying job. Before my kids I loved it and was excited to start each day. That changed for me once the nurse put my son in my arms. Now I resent my job. It burns me out. I dred getting up in the morning and having to do it again and I feel completely trapped. I feel like I have lost time, years, and experiences with my children, and the stress and pressure of my job takes away from my ability to parent well. I agree with your mom soon you will be an empty nester, but in my view that just makes it feel worse, because I could have worried about work then. That has been my experience so naturally I might assume it's better to stay home and teach that to my daughter. I rather not drill anything into her. I hope to help her understand the risks and rewards of either situation so she can make an informed and personal choice where she is prepared to listen to her heart and understand the color of the grass on both sides of the fence. For my situation I do the best I can to make lemonade out of my lemons.
This is me but with a different career. I’m a few weeks from paying off $55k in student loans and I’m burned out from work as well. I definitely feel for her so maybe I’ll just apply to work somewhere else or take a break.
@@egr3071 If you are a teacher and have the savings you could take a career break or even find a part time post. If you are in management it probably would be more difficult to take that break.
Leaning hard into that sunk cost fallacy. This mom should do what she wants to. I would keep the license active for sure, but there is nothing wrong with taking a full (walk away) sabbatical to reorient your priorities.
You shouldn't just walk away from 10 year $300k investments just because one day you feel like it. It's not a clear "sunk cost fallacy" because she is benefitting financially tremendously by staying in. Sunk cost fallacy usually refers to when you're losing money/investment by staying in in hopes of a payoff, the payoff is guaranteed in this case and she's walking away from the direct benefit.
I LOVE that you have a choice! What a gift. Stay home and enjoy your babies! Ali Abdaal, a RU-vidr, just quit being a doctor and I am sure there are lots of people who have left medicine. We are at a time in the world where people are making very different choices around lifestyle, pursuits, peace, etc…! Love the discussion. Thanks for the reminder that there are far greater things than being a doctor, like being a parent.
I totally understand her... despite loving my job I got a total burnout from working 6-7 days a week. I was on the edge of closing my business. As a last resort, I limited my working time to 3.5 days a week. It took several months to start enjoying my job again, be more productive in less time and at the same time be happy and have a healthy relationship again. They give good advice.
This is always tough but if I were in her shoes, I would take a lot of PTO this year and have the mindset of weathering the storm to retire very early. With both incomes and such a small amount of house debt left she can stack up a large nest egg and do whatever she wants in a few years.
There are several doctors who walk away from it when they're done with it. Med School Insiders- Quit, Ali Abdaal- Quit, Barbell Medicine JF- Quit. Those are just three examples of doctors on youtube who got the attention from quitting. Now they all have other jobs but still, there is a way to pivot away from being a doctor.
Paul Varjak in their 30’s, paid off 300k in 5-8 years. Attending at 28 or so, under 200k salary. Nothing is wild about my comment, I know the industry. They were living on rice and beans to do what they did.
Exactly and the longer this doc is out of the field the harder it will be to get back in and be relevant-cause where I work all the doctors are from other countries and some are paid cheaper (on contracts) and they hustle, this caller is dreaming. Doctors are very competitive and so it healthcare-she needs to stay in the field and do teledoc or something-cause she will not be relevant sooner than she thinks.
And? It happens everyday in the American system look at all the debt vlogs on RU-vid half of them are Americans paying off student loans for professions they don't want to do anymore and degrees they won't use
Why the hate in the comments? She paid off the debt, if after paying it off she decides is not for her it's all fine. If she had quit while in debt then yeah it'd be stupid but in this scenario it's fine.
Somebody else didn't get into medical school because she DID get in, and that person probably would have made a lifetime commitment to the profession. And now she wants to drop out. It's a waste of her own - and someone else's - education.
I just came back to full time work after a year of paid maternity leave AND IT FEELS SO GOOD. I wouldn’t decide for another full year again, unless my kid needed that time (by first one was totally ready for the daycare around 9 months of age..)
What a great response. As a new mom I've felt that dilemma so many times and you acknowledged her potential need for intellectual fulfillment in the future but a break in the present.
If you had any idea what it takes to get through med school and residency, you'd understand how HUGE this is to quit. I'd bet, you've not experienced anything close to that kind of dedication.
Y accomplishment is measure by money?? … she wants to be a mother to her kid/kids that in its self is an accomplishment bcuz it dose t come with instructions!
@TriIII The ROI is actually not terrible! - Working full-time would result in her paying it off within 3yrs - Every year worked after that is pure profit for her & her family. I wish I had a business that made such guaranteed profit 😂! Also, different hospitals pay you different amounts and with years of experience, you could demand more compensation.
Those are both highly stressful fields. Also I agree with the earlier commenter - most physicians would never sell their souls to go into admin. Basically on par with big pharma and the insurance companies.
@@jill9606 There is nothing in life that doesn't involve stress. I'll tell you what would be more stressful, having the hi back to work 15yrs later ,(older, more tired with potentially chronic health issues or widowed), whenever your kids need money to go to college
You’re not done, get to financial freedom then quit. You’re at the breakeven but now 10 years down, suck it up for 10 more, save 100 a year, then quit.
Double standard. What makes u think he hasn't stepped up? Would u say that if the man was the doctor and the wife was staying home taking care of things and going to school to start a career? I doubt it. It probably has made sense for the man to stay home because of her high debt and higher income.
Spending time with family and being able to enjoy your days how you see fit, as a reward for paying off debt, is perfectly acceptable. In fact, isn't having more freedom as a result of removing the debt handcuffs one of the goals? Financial and time freedom
As a former physician, I stopped working to take care of my kids, and never regretted it. Go for it if you can afford it! You may also consider going back to work part time.
I would be sorely tempted to work another two years, you could pay off the house and bank another $250k in retirement. Making $65K having a mortgage payment with three kids is barely comfortable along with $250k in retirement. Now making $65k having no mortgage and $500k in retirement sounds like you are set.
can always come back to practicing when the kids are grown and gone, and i know dozens of doctors who walked away and stayed away. in fact, most youtube physicians are trying to get out and hoping their content takes off. there are hundreds of "i quit medicine" videos on youtube
She wouldn’t have had to burn herself out if she didn’t take out $300k in student loans. You may ask, how else you pay for medicos school? Well she now wishes she didn’t in the first place.
@@spicerc1244 so that's your solutions to problems? Go back in time? There are other ways she could get off debt and won't be living on rice and bean but those ways don't alight with Ramsey model.
@@smhninja3746 How else do you pay off debt without using your own money? If you don't have the cash to initially go to college then you shouldn't go. Not at that time anyway. Same thing for a house. Save, save, and save. Nobody said it would be quick, nobody said it would be easy. You don't have to go to college at 18. You can save and go later. Anybody who says otherwise, just wanted to party with their friends. She should never have gone to medical school in the first place. It wasn't for her if she can't afford it - and that has proven to be true now that she hates it.
It depends! For a single person, one can do something similar without being really burned out. But for a person married with kids, it might be a harder pill to swallow.
I have been burned out from dead-end jobs but I have never been burned out from something I love to do. NOt saying it doesn't exist but it's better than being homeless or in debt.
I would not gave up that kind of pay to be a stay at home mom. I am a mom and I have a PhD and years of academic research. Things were very hard at times but after I stayed at home with my daughter for a while I just wanted to work. I needed something else to do. I think she needs a temporary break.
Not a single soul mentioned the fact that the 4 yrs of paying off debt may have caused the burn out in the first place. The hospital experience can be rough, but to have $300K on top of that stress is so much worse. This idea may change once I’m out of debt and experience that life, but I truly believe that if you are in the career field that you were meant to be in, then it won’t feel like a job if you are debt free and working in a healthy environment. 🤷🏻♀️ I would be burnt out paying off $300K too.
Just take a year off, enjoy some time with your family and for yourself. After a year come back three days a week or find a way to make your job fun again, perhaps teaching new doctors coming in
Pray on it and you will find your path. Life is interesting, and the most interesting people never really figure out what they want to do. You will always be a doctor, practicing or not. That’s yours. You earned it. Now you can do something else. I for one am excited and wish I could see what comes next. Get after it girl. Kick motherhood over the fence and raise some awesome kids that can run the world and have a nice marriage. That degree will always be yours, but it’s not your totality. Sounds like there is more in there. Find out what it is.
Well yeah...a guy doesn't pop out a human and go through emotional stress due to certain hormonal levels affecting judgement and physical changes their body.
My best friend just quit her job as a Nurelogist. She is now going to work for a pharmaceutical company making double her salary working 9-5pm. I suggest you take a 1-2 yr break and figure it out.
Take time off. Let that time make the decision. Trust me...you WILL want to work. Human beings are mobile beings and we cannot stay still doing the same thing for long. You will eventually miss what you do and go back to work. Hence why your husband is working. You get tired and bored of not working. Just take tine for yourself. You paid your dues. Take some time. Then go back at it. You are debt free and have an amazing income. Enjoy life ;)
My mom was a doctor who walked away when she had kids. She always recommends women who are interested in medicine (and want to have a family) to study nursing first because it's much easier to do part-time and the schooling costs so much less (and can be finished when you're much younger.) Then they can always continue their education after their kids are school-aged if they still want to become an MD.
