Ineos Grenadier - Why it's not the perfect 4wd! [2022] 

---- UPDATE September 2022 --------- I sat in the latest model, which according to Ineos, is pretty much done besides some small changes under the bonnet and cosmetic stuff. In my opinion, the seating position is bad for someone my size, while I sat in the back, two other people who were around my height jumped into the driver's seat and said exactly the same to their friends. If you are anywhere around 190cm, I strongly suggest sitting in one before buying. For me, it's definitely ruled out as a tourer as the seating position is nothing that you can modify or change. ----------------------- There are a few heated opinions here, and I do value all constructive feedback and will never delete such; however, become disrespectful, I will delete your comments. These are my opinions based on my experience and research. If you don't like to hear concerns or shortcomings, don't watch the video. If you create a purpose-built 4wd for enthusiasts and professionals and make it available as a ProtoType you will get more scrutiny from people who know what they are looking at and see shortcomings. In my opinion better to know possible shortcomings now than after spending 130k. What I mentioned does not concern or affect you? No problem, it seems to be the right car for you, and that is perfectly fine. I see this video as one part of the puzzle to making an informed purchase decision.

What standard car (with genuine options by the manufacturer) would fit your liking?? You are criticizing the only brand that wants to build a real 4x4.

As a long time CJ and Wrangler owner, my absolute love with the looks of the Grenadier has always been tinged with bit of…wariness. At this point I think I still want one, but you’ve definitely given me more to consider. Thank you!

The Grenadier is a ground breaking vehicle in the history of 4 wheel drive vehicles, combining traditional, functional design with modernity in a very welcome way. I think your comments are all reasonable and accurate critiques of a first generation car company and specialty vehicle. as compared to your wish list. And once the company begins delivering vehicles to customers we will all see the collective real world experience here on youtube. The tough call is whether to buy one, knowing that future model years will only bring improvements in options [gas tank size?] and fit and finish. Look at Ford's pandemic influenced, flawed roll out of the Bronco with defective hard tops, and probably many other fit and finish issues to clean up. And that's by a traditional OEM. Regarding the Grenadier, what gives me a high degree of confidence in a successful roll out are the partners involved in the design and assembly, specifically Magna Steyr, the maker of the legendary G Wagon. [compare the door handles between the two vehicles😉] Also, consider that the Grenadier is being assembled at a former but very modern plant of Mercedes, with the same workforce, suggests a high level of competence and commitment to high quality construction. [The plant will still produce various small MBZ models, per press reports.] The reputation of all of these partners is at stake world wide. All of these factors instill a level of confidence that the vehicle will be reliable and of high quality from the beginning.

An extremely professional and thorough review with expert knowledge of the subject. Every 4-wheel driver's gold standard, let the manufacturers take notice. The real deal is not the pitch but the patch the vehicle can cope with.

Thank you Stephan as usual for your very informative and unbiased video. I have been following the INEOS for the past 18 months and always felt that their videos are not really helpful for things I want to know, but are done by fanboys/ salesmen. Good to hear your view that confirmed this hunch. You however have been very modest in titling this video as such, I must say!

Excellent review. Absolutely spot on that you really don't want to be that "first customer" to buy one in Australia or Southern Africa and drive off into the wild blue yonder. My thoughts are to wait at least 5 years into production before seriously considering the Grenadier in Australia

One could not have expressed in a better way . Well done mate 👌🏽

Extremely informative video. Don't worry about the keyboard warriors, you are sharing your perspective based on your significant experiences and that will help a lot of people make their own decisions with their own criteria. One of the most useful videos I've seen yet. Keep up the great work.

Awesome work as usual Stef. Like you, I had high hopes on the Grenadier but have been left very short on the product being delivered. Unlike you, I thought the way this product was marketed, that it SHOULD have been offered off the forecourt with an option for 35's. 33's should surely be standard. Completely agree on the the short arm WAs, death wobble possibility. Actually agree on the lockers, the clearance, the limited fuel capacity, the footwell, the overhead controls, the winch option, gearing etc. I had the Grenadier on my interest list, and it will go back on that list if they look to local support from someone like yourself, perhaps with support from the local modifier suppliers - not formula 1 drivers, ice-cream van people, or rally drivers. But people who actually know 4wd. You've quoted two other 4wd specialists in this vid, and as it goes, that is three of four who are the only 4wd specialists in my RU-vid feed. Grenadier would find it hard doing better than bringing you three to the table. Just do it Grenadier. If you take it seriously, you will love the result.

Very interesting to hear your objective analysis, there are many flaws you highlight that I hadn't considered!

I love the blunt honesty, certainly following now👍

100 percent agree with literally everything you said (from the U.S.). Fortunately we apparently get a 100 L tank over here. I don't know why, but we do, and that's good. Also since our steering wheel is on the left, our foot room might be more natural. The biggest draw-backs for me, and frankly what is keeping me from buying this first version, is that it doesn't seem to have much room for growth of wheel size. Absolutely zero people are going to get smaller tires, so they should set up the geometry of the control arms etc., as if their tires are the absolute smallest it will perform well with. In other words, leave geometry room such that 35" can be placed without rubbing or replacing the control arms, AND offer an optional lower final gear ratio. This is key. Bronco got that right and the 4x4 industry is following suit, not that I'm comparing the two rigs. The concept of this rig being modular is great... but it seems to come out of the shop limited in this fundamental way for a 4x4. I know those in the UK probably don't like to hear when you said it's built too for the UK... but the point of the vehicle is to sell and perform all around the world.

Wow. That seating error is an immediate deal breaker. As a seating professional for over 30 years, I'm impressed you made that your first point. Overall, your observations are very astute. Thank you.

Thank you for putting yourself out there with your informed comments and most of them substantiated with available information. I was one of the first to put my cash down for this exciting vehicle development, I have watched all the promotional videos, as well as the constructive criticism (yours being one) and came to the conclusion myself that on release and ordering the vehicle is indeed overpriced and lacks those key points needed for touring. I am sure that most return criticism to yourself is based on perhaps disappointment and that the bubble has burst on the excitement surrounding its release. I have cancelled my order, with great deliberation, but cannot invest so much in a compromised investment that still needs so much more cash and modification to be the vehicle I thought it was going to be. Excellent review, again, thanks.

Great video! Agree with everything especially the price and ergonomics. In 2008 I was pricing up a new Defender and they were about AU$48k. I would think the base model Grenadier should be about that, especially a new, unknown product. I sat in the driver’s seat at the Grenadier demo and hated the footwell, and B pillar. Windows were far too low too. I think what you said about this vehicle being designed by people who have never designed a car before is spot on. Keep up the good work 💪🏼💪🏼

Awesome and thorough review! I agree with everything you have said in this video 100%. Despite the grenadiers shortcomings, I am still happy that they have built a dual solid axle vehicle that can hopefully be revised in the future to eliminate its current issues that you highlighted in the video. This may make it a legendary four wheel drive that can be used as a tourer and for tough tracks. Keep up the great content.

I fully concur with your commentary and btw this is a great discussion. The concept is fantastic and I actually like the car a lot but for me, I will wait for a couple of iterations to see how everything performs. Having a BMW engine is great and I know they are very reliable but a concern for AU as everything german costs a fortune to repair/replace. Pricing is also a massive issue, as I priced one with my requirements and came to $118k before stamp duty and LCT, I think is way to high. So at this stage I will be watching with anticipation to see how everything evolves in terms of price and specs. Cheers

A great reminder of why I’m subscribed to your channel. Solid valid arguments. Ineos should take notes. Well said 👍

You'd be nothing short of brave and deep pocketed to take a gamble on this. Thing could turn out to be a 160k lemon and we havent talked about its resale value yet.

Thanks for your input on this upcoming rig. You always have fantastic content.

Best review I have seen yet, agree with all your critique. I would never buy just because of not having the dashboard in front of the driver, I mean who think it's OK to place this in the center? no doubt you know what you are talking about. Thank you!

remarkably well spoken. your experience really comes through in your analysis.

Thank you for making this video. I’ve had a fair amount of doubts myself during the development phase of the car. And I’ve been criticised on RU-vid for being outspoken about the risks of a car made by non experienced people and managers who are just living a childish dream due to vulgar levels of wealth. Even ASPW seemed to buy into the BS and the empty promises. I’m glad the reality is slowly emerging and the problems become more and more obvious.

A very honest video. I love the Genadier concept but as an Australian Outback/desert tourer, it will not make the grade. The current Troopcarrier runs rings around it for outback touring.

Another comprehensive review with excellent recommendations. I hope Ineos Grenadier takes them on board. It's reviews such as these that lead to tangible improvements that benefit the customer.

I'm glad I'm not the only one that spotted the death wobble. (I think the only reason we got to see that video is it was 3rd party from the BMW bike event and not Ineos themselves). It definitely feels that the majority of people are over the honeymoon period with the grenadier and, unfortunately, its short comings are starting to appear. That being said Ineos are all too keen to tell everyone that these are prototypes, so it'll be interesting to see if the final production vehicles have the same issues!

Nice to see some critical evaluation of this new car. As Suzuki fanboy myself I am not into overlanding but some serious off roading...everybody has special needs and I think not one unmodified vehicle off them dealerships can deliver. You will have to make it your own. happy trails!

Really good assessment. Good to see the PR hype bubble being popped.

A much appreciated thorough review. As I looking forward to purchasing a forewheeled all purpose vehicle this was very informative.

Great summary! Keep up the good work.

First class breakdown on Grenadier potential limitations. I agree with your statements regarding it not being ready for Australia. I really wonder if the limitations will so limit the long-term sales and sustainability especially looking at the premium pricing that make the Landcruiser a more sensible choice.

Great video mate. I definitely agree with you with regard to the space for your feet. It looks to me that it was designed for the LHD market. I went from a Y61 patrol to a new Jeep Commander and it’s foot well was cramped compared to the Patrol & horrible over the long distance. Even my 76 series is cramped but I’d say better compared to the Ineos.

I want to thank you for your thoughtful comprehensive review. I am near 100% pulling my deposit after the price configurator just got released here in America. Weighing the limitations you've outlined (which I am willing to compromise somewhat) against the inflated price point, it is becoming a risky buy given other 4WD we have got here in America.

100% review with logic! Bravo

Great video and review. I've never thought of it as a tourer in Australia. You touched on my reason that it wouldn't make a good tourer, that being spares and service. As you have previously found out with your 110 Landrover. This vehicle will be an even lower production and ownership, so outback mechanics would rarely see one and wouldn't be keen to work on it. For remote touring in Australia you have to go with Toyota for genuine and after market parts and service, followed closely by Nissan. The best prepared vehicle will still have some kind of problem when touring. The last thing anyone wants is to have a lengthy wait for parts, or an expensive recovery and transport many thousands of kilometers to a service agent. Great review as always.

New to the channel, loved the video, German precision 👌. I sat in the prototype today, loved it, but after the video, reconsidering if I should put down a deposit. I’ll wait till the first ones are delivered, which should be soon.

Hi, Stefan, a thoroughly detailed review. Although I ordered one, I share some of these consturctive opinions. However, it might not suit everyone's purpose as long as they are not the deal-breaker for you. It is a medium-size 4wd, and doesn't have the capacity of Landcruiser, and Patrols. I hope the LWB dual-cab ute will be better for Overlanding 4WD with LRT, and I am happy with a 33" AT for the general touring purpose.

Interesting and informative video. I have driven the prototype 2B for a week in an off-road environment in the UAE (Nov 21) and absolutely loved it. I did have the left hand drive version and did not notice any discomfort in the footwell (but maybe I wasn't paying enough attention). Regarding off-road driving, I did not find that 1st 4L was too fast at all - it kept the vehicle at a nice and constant 2-4 km/h while descending a 2 km long mountain trail - hill descent was not available on the 2B (nor was ABS, traction control, lockers, etc.). The Off-Road park also has an 80 % concrete descent which did require the use of brakes (all 4WD's do at that angle). I did also find the seating position to be great for viewing and was able to traverse trails where usually a spotter is preferred but had such great view I did not need one. Granted, I have not been overlanding in it so unsure how comfortable that would be after a few weeks of driving 6-8 hours a day. Regarding ground clearance, while I did think it looked a bit low, I tried our approach / departure angle obstacle (20, 30 and 40 degree approach angles) and I was impressed. The Grenadier 2B is the only bone stock 5 door vehicle (besides the old defender) that can traverse the 40 without touching on the break-over (break-over is not 40 btw). Regarding handling, I was impressed at how the suspension handled the 2,800 kg weight of the 2B. I ran it into a bumpy curve on a dirt track at 75 km/h and it handled like a dream - even some of my passengers at the time who are also experienced off-roaders were nervous when they saw the terrain on the turn we were going to hit at speed :). They were amazed at how it handled. I will hopefully get the chance to drive the full production version and can't wait.

Best analysis I have seen so far.

Your criteria list is way better. I must admit that I really like the G but I did see a few things that made me think that waiting was the best way to go. Of course price matters too and once you get the mid range two seater optioned up with just the basics, you’re already in the LC300 GXL pricing territory and at that rate, I’ll just hang onto my LC200 for a bit longer and wait for the 300.

Awesome and very usefful review, thanks a lot👍👍

A lack of 3rd party options is definitely something to consider seriously. I bought a 6x6 land rover perentie, and now Im trying to add extra fuel tank, upgrade the brakes for better performance etc - cannot really buy anything off the shelf, so it is much harder to research and costs go through the roof. Good video, thanks

Excellent comments, very educational, thank you.

the left steered cars most likely wont have the exhaust in the way. I like a few things about it. The one central roof panel 4x4 switch switches off all modern electronic controls at ones. There is a aux battery in the rear. Prewired outside light switches in the roof, so when camping/sleeping in the back, they are easy accessible. The grenadier reminds me on the early G class. Two roof windows 👍🏽 Alloy doors, the rest in steel, german made ladder frame and solid axles, compared to the Defender. You got to design a car like this for modern times first, that has to be understood. Look at the new Defender

Very thorough review and I agree with your points, therefore its not the best off roader after all!

Very pertinent points! Very well informed and the vehicle is in deed Eurocentric. Now it no longer looks like it was meant to be a vehicle for you, hard core off roaders. I hope they will listen to you, Andrew and the bunch that actually know your stuff. Thank you for the video and also, if you have not already, share please the road you took to fix the death wobble on you Jeep through a video. I am not a off roader, even though I own two 4wd vehicles that I enjoy very much, I m looking at getting a vehicle that could run through most of the Stuff Europe has to throw at me... I am currently looking at the Gladiator and the Grenadier was also in the back of my mind, reliability is important to me, more than performance as I stick with the EU for now :-) Best wishes to you and I love the way you addressed the hole video, very considerate and intelligent! Respect!

Thank you for this detailed review and I feel it is aligned with most of my observations of the car. It is a pity that they did miss the target on a number of vital elements.

great video thanks - very clear explanations and opinions

I’m in total agreement about the RHD seating position issue while I also, from experience, do not like the very exposed steering damper. I like the Grenadier a lot but will wait to see how things develope going forward with real exposure and reviews.

Wow!! Finally an off-roader that was not star struck by this vehicle to the point of soiling their good name and reputation by gushing over it simply because it "looks" like an old Defender and has solid axles. The number of complex issues, known and unknown, that a start up company has to overcome will be the achilles heal of Ineos for the near future. Give this brand 5 years and it will most likely be a top choice for the serious off-roader.

great review....would be interesting to do a direct comparison to a stock Toyota Prado and how both can be modified / costs etc, not talking hard core rock climbing but 95% of what people use their 4x4 for in Australia, think you may be surprised which wins !!

Fantastic informative technical yet easy to digest review on the Grenadier I was thinking of getting one and now I definitely won't too expensive and not ready out of the box

I think your video is spot on, there are many decisions on the Grenadier that depreciate it's value as a touring vehicle, especially when heading remote outback. I think buying one at this stage for touring would be foolish, or must acknowledge they're definitely in the early adopter stage and will have issues as such. There's also many things that could possibly change (as per the Ineos PR reps) between the proto and the final production units - will be good to see if they took criticisms on board... I think it's a pretty simple misinterpretation by many that it would be good at remote touring and modifying by design. Ineos instead have designed it as a "real" 4wd for work, not as a recreational toy (like it or not, is what most touring/modified vehicles are). The promo material I've seen has tended this way. Looking at the vehicle and talking with Ineos reps on the prototype tour it confirmed that this is aimed more at business purposes. There have been some reports with PR people talking about touring as well, but it's pretty obvious that this was way at the back of the mind. The reps I spoke with were quite open that there are better vehicles for modifying. There are many design decisions that, in theory at least, would make this great on a worksite, be it a farming (although better in dual/cab or CC style), towing trailers, trade site, mine (would be a brilliant torture test - mines are ridiculously harsh on vehicles). Businesses have the capability to buy many more of these things than enthusiasts ever will and as such will be the primary market. Many of these design decisions that make the vehicle better stock, go against design lending to modifying for enthusiast levels - minimal wasted space underneath for additional fuel etc, suspension designed to best suit current setup vs lifted etc. There is no point designing suspension, for example, to cope with a 4-6in lift, it that design has a marked detrimental impact on stock handling - when the bulk of the vehicles will never be lifted. Assuming Ineos can follow up on their service & parts plans, I reckon the 1st version will be great at it's intended use (on work sites), but i we'll have to wait for version 2 refinement to see if they are able to cater for enthusiasts as well. And if they bring out a CC version, it might even be time for my old man to upgrade his stock 22yr old GU Patrol 4.2 CC (yeah the LC has more power, but its not really better at anything else, and worse on road)...

Fantastic review, thankyou Stefan!

Thankyou for your thorough review. Your priority list at the start are FAR more important than a mere three priorities, one of which is practically irrelevant - ie: looks. As you highlighted, of critical importance is footwell space in ANY vehicle - especially for long drives (anything over an hour! - which isn't long!) As a civil engineer and 'been there dun that' type in off roading (well before even engel fridges!) - a work vehicle for construction and mine sites where the driver does not have sufficient footroom for a driver when wearing workboots, or gumboots will not get past their doors -- thus a huge market potential has been lost. Similarly is legroom - a major failure in all traditional LR body shapes. People aren't getting smaller (I certainly am not!) so if the Grenadier does not have legroom where somebody of say 1.9m height can stretch legs and move feet around (1.95 preferably to cater for construction types with boots), then rejection will be commonplace as it was in the old landrover - and similar attention to the rear seating. Clearly the only way to remedy this issue is a longer wheel base by say 30 or 40cm - which would solve other design flaws you identified. Then we get onto the drivetrain - oh so much to say, but quickly: As you highlight, lockers and axles need be utterly reliable and OVER engineered ... all the way to and through the transmission of course. It seems to me that the designers have had no experience in other slippery conditions on a wet english farm - thus acceptance will be to that market. Meanwhile, Toyota will continue to deservedly dominate. Peter Cunningham Bowral NSW

Thanks for the thoughtful review. I was very enthusiastic about the grenadier but they should have done better than a Geländewagen developed 50 years ago.

Good video. We are going to need to disagree on the necessity for 35s on a tourer though, I find 32-33 adequate. I'm just happy INEOS have made a good offroad/overland/touring 4x4 even if it's not perfect! And I too was appalled by the "gold standard" descent - I'd say that was in high range, and hurtling down a slope is not my idea of control. However, creative agencies typically focus on speed rather than control, and care not about the impact on the car or the environment.

Great review. Proof will be in the pudding when it’s finally delivered to Aussie customers. Lack Service Centres is definitely a down side in a such large country as ours. Maybe they will increase as popularity with the vehicle increases. Pity Holden don’t take up the servicing as there were loads of them around that have now closed. I do like that there is another high priced option in the market and will certainly make most people think twice about a LC 300 or even a high spec new defender.

Great review, thank you. I followed INEOS from the start and was excited that this might be the basic but well thought out 4x4. I had paid a reservation fee and whilst I’m not looking at using for the more extreme or technical side of things it still falls short in the basics you mentioned. I won’t be going through with purchase and will stick with my LC 200series for now and see what future Grenadier versions bring.

Thanks for your honest opinion based on your knowledge. Highly appreciated. - With your view in mind, in this video, you showed me why I (on a limited budget) didn’t wait for the Grenadier but bought a Jimny. That said, IF I was one of the guys WITH the money, I still think I would go for the Grenadier. Because for the ones with that amount of cash cash isn’t a problem. From my point of view, your most interesting point is the locker/-s. Grenadier went for an electrical one, seriously…!!??? Not mentioning the winch option nor the LHD seating position with the weird footwell as my view would ban me from RU-vid… Regarding 3rd party accessory suppliers … Give the manufacturers a chance. Look at the Gen4 Jimny. It was released in 2018. Today the marked is flooded with extras for it. I expect the same for the Grenadier in a few years time, ie be patient. 😉

These are important points to keep in mind while purchasing it. I will not baby it when it’s arrive, it will be driven to extremes until something prevails, common sense say drive what it is intent to but with your skills and preparations to what ever it, full passengers, towing and pulling, off road and over-landing. But it’s good looking on road and comfy also. I have fully loaded it with options with intent to use it. It is very interesting new Off road company car with future cars on the way. For sure the Pick up will definitely in my radar and am selling my current pickup when the Ineos is out. Then I can wait until the new pickup comes in the future while enjoying the Grenadier in the mean time.

Superb commentary from both the user and engineering perspective. The value proposition is indeed questionable in the first version. But as you say much can change in time. Full marks to the INEOS team for getting this far though! Now let's see where they go from here. If they can reclaim the ground Toyota and Nissan stole from Land Rover decades ago, that will be a great accomplishment. Living in Canada but working a lot as an engineer in MENA, I get to experience both extremes: hot and dry plus cold, deep snow and muddy. We have Toyotas in both theatres because of performance and reliability in pretty much all conditions. When INEOS can achieve that at a competitive price point, or deliver something exceptional that justifies a higher price, then we will consider buying one or two for the fleet. For now, we stick with what works. I look forward to your subsequent commentary.

Thanks for this video i love the look of this vehicle but u brought alot of good points in this video

Thank you Stefan for an in-depth analysis, I am not sure if it will be able to safely negotiate the sand dunes in the Middle East due to it only it’s weight, break over angle but mainly it’s front & rear end ground clearances. Middle East is a big market for SUV’S and the terrain is mostly soft sand, I wonder if it will be able to compete with the likes of LC, Jeep Wrangler, Nissan Patrols that have rules the roost and New Bronco that seems equally capable. Let’s wait & watch how the production version comes out & then we will be in a better position to pass a verdict.

Thanks a lot, the most deeply analyzed video about IG I've already found. Despite the fact I live in EU I totally agree with you. "Perfect" off-roader have to have potential to be modified heavily. Most manufacturers state the factory spec is enough. And in most cases they are right. Europe is NOT a serious off-road market but in many countries across Asia and Africa I saw thousands of local driven 4x4s and 99% was more or less in stock version when it comes to suspension and wheels. But there is a real off-road community not only in Australia, USA, SA or even South America. In Europe prices of the most proven and wanted 4x4s skyrocketed in recent years (like in Oz) and one have to pay 25-40k EUR for off-roader like not rusted through Patrol Y61, LC J80 with half a million kms, or even more for top-shaped Defender. In Poland where I live there is company making plug-and-play frames! for all Y60/61 Patrols (one can register them in PL). It shows hunger for real 4x4s. I think you're right, Ineos made "European" mistake stating that the stock would be enough. But it is not. This is why Wrangler is so much popular across Europe and keep value for years. The same with my FJ Cruiser despite its IFS. I am oriented towards overlanding more but most people in Europe using its 4x4s locally in some off-road rallys for example. And there is no chance to follow modified Patrol on its 35"s or 37"s in deep mud in a stock off-roader. So fitting 33"s is a absolute minimum for all those who think seriously of doing off-road in Poland and in many other eastern European countries where digging mud is a serious thing. :) Cheers.

I live in BC, Canada where I live play and work in the back country. I agree with a lot of your comments but need to say that this vehicle is not designed and marketed as a 'rock crawler' therefore should not be judged too harshly against some of your personal trucks that you do or have owned and modified. There is a huge market for 4Wd 'Sports Utility Vehicles' here and most are not designed with purely driving in dried river beds, rocky canyons, fording creeks etc. To launch a new vehicle into an already saturated market and to make it a profitable venture it should appeal to the mass market. Many 4WD enthusiasts here are very competent at rebuilding old trucks and SUV's to play in the dirt, I have friends who are passionate about this. These enthusiasts probably spend 1/3 to 1/2 as much as it would cost to buy the Grenadier. Also we need to look at the environment in which the Ineos Grenadier will be marketed, true some will likely be bought by those who work and live remotely in the Outback or harsh Northern environments...but a lot will not, they will be bought for the rugged aesthetic that will appeal to the urban 'wannabee' outdoor types, the hockey mums and those who want to be seen as driving something different, that might say something about their personal identity needs. Originating in the "Land Rover' community of the UK, I hoped that Ineos might have tried to create a basic, almost minimalistic, vehicle that would be very durable, easy to work on, very affordable and that could be customized by the consumer at a later date to raise its specification and adaptive to individual needs. I think the entry price point is too high and the 'full option' cost puts it into the league of the increasingly popular Range Rovers, high specification Jeep Wranglers and high performance, 'off road' pick up trucks such as the Ford F150 Raptor and the Dodge Ram TRX...I can't see Ineos gaining a market when competing with any of these vehicles. Thanks for a well executed review.

Yes, I'm not going to be rushing out to buy one. Thankfully my Y61 CRD Nissan Patrol only has 65,000 odd kilometres on the odo, it's not something that I'm likely going to need to decide on for a little while. Hopefully. I wrote to the company and ACTIVELY encouraged them to test in Australia. Like you, I got no response, either.

There seems to be a disconnect with actual serious off road use.

Extremely well done review after several years experience in the Busches of Africa (construction) and a terrible experience with a South African build Land Rover (turbo charger seized e no chance to have a proper repair done)

A great video -lots to digest and you make many good points. I agree the pricing is far too high but suspect they are trying to amortise the huge development costs . From a marketing perspective it should target key competitors at good price points. To 'Premium' price at launch can lead to slow sales .

Thank you for such a thorough and fare review

Thank you for a great video ! I think the Grenadier is a good first attempt but for sure with some big issues for serious off road / adventure / work horse use . Unfortunately here in the UK many will never see anything more arduous than dropping " little Johnny" off at his prep school ... For now the Landcruiser will remain king 👑 for those who really need the best for serious work ...

Great video. Objective and spoken from experience with no brand loyalty. 160k sounds about right though, I’m spending similar on portal 79

Good report and you have covered all

Interesting and thought provoking. Stefan, What a lot of work it must be to put these videos together, not only the production with all the clips inserted into your videos but the time taken to research everything. Amazing work. Do you do this all yourself? On the Grenadier, No its not the perfect 4WD. Like any motor manufacturers they engage marketing companies to sell the vehicle. Most of the people marketing these things probably never have driven on a gravel road, if they have a drivers license at all as they invariably would live in cities. So the hype can be disregarded largely. As you say, in Low range it can go really fast down a hill. That must be good! But what do we mean when we want a 4WD? I have been in the 4wd scene in Australia for 25 years in 4wd clubs and I can not see a bright future for 4WDing. Young people are abandoning clubs as we in clubs try and encourage responsible use of 4wds , the authorities are closing access everywhere. The kind of shots of rock crawling you showed in the clip are being looked at disapprovingly from the conservation groups and forest rangers. As more people go offroad more regulations are being drawn up. 35 inch tyres and bigger make tracks that were passable in a normal family 4wds impossible as they cut them up, digging large ruts. I have first hand experience of this with rangers we work with on adopt a track using their standard vehicles and not being able to get through. Their reaction is to close the track. Then people come along and cut locks, further reaction to this is , install cameras and fine people. So do we need massive lifted and large tyred 4wds anymore? Pretty soon no as there will be few places apart from pay to play 4wd parks that you will be able to use them. For outback touring, lifts and large tyres are not needed. Therefore the Grenadier is probably a player in this segment of the market. I also think looks is a way more important factor than it seems. If we were all just rational we would draw up spread sheets and compare features, capabilities and pricing and end up with a Pajero on top of the list. People buy on gut feeling and looks is very important. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder but i do like the look of the Grenadier. (But some people think a Citreon 2cv is beautiful as well ) Older 4wds are very capable and simple so many will keep them going while they can afford to run them. The problem is that they are getting tired and needy, (especially my Land Rovers unfortunately) and unless you have a very good mechanic or have the time, workshop and skills to DIY many people will upgrade sooner or later. Its all a compromise.

Good in-depth video. Well Done Mate👍🍺🇦🇺 To over priced for a unproven vehicle, with so many choices out there that can be Battle ready “New” with all the Mods.

I put my deposit down. I did a test drive. It did well. One small thing that got me, the backseat don't fall flat. I have a 1976 international scout ii and it has that capability. I just traded my 2012 Range Rover Sport with 91,000 for a 2001 Landcruiser!

What an excellent breakdown!

Very good review Stefan, and I agree with everything you pointed out. The footwell design looks like it could be a disaster. The speedo is in a rediculous position in my opinion. It will be interesting to see what people think of driving the vehicle long distance on the bitumen, as it is a long way between places of interest. It might be ok driving around the Lord Muck's farm in England, but it will be interesting to see how it handles Oz.

Thanks for your professional input . I think I’ll give this Ineos a miss! My little Jimny does a good job for now!

You make very strong points.

Very informative, balanced and fair review. LIke you, I'll wait and watch and see what they do to address the issues, or not. Perhaps this brand is destined to become another Terrace Tractor and School Run statement car. Be a shame if it did.

I saw the prototype in January and sent them the following comments. “Thanks again for the opportunity to see and ride in the vehicle. I look forward to drive it. I have never owned an old Defender but in the last 6 years, I have owned both the last and current generations of Mercedes G wagon, last and current generations of Wrangler Rubicon and both the 110 and 90 new Defenders. We have a property on a very rocky and mountainous game reserve similar to Samara. The Grenadier is very impressive. But, I have several practical suggestions: -The pedal area is poorly designed on the prototype as if designed by people who don't drive off road. off-road,,,, you usually wear boots, so the pedals are too close together and the left footrest is way too high and dangerous when bouncing around when it is at the level of the brake pedal. -Nice to have would be... a sliding rail to move the rear seat back a bit. There is a lot of space in the boot but the back seat is too tight. - also nice to have would be electric movements of the drivers seat. In steep mountain driving it is good to change the distance to the pedals on the go. -Tyre options like the Iceland heavy mud terrain tyres should be available. K02 tyres are good but poor in mud and not tough enough for SA mountainous rocky conditions. For example the Rubicon comes with KM 3 tyres which are better. When will the price of the options be available? Just FYI at current rates -defender 110 in UK is R1,199,540 and in SA R 1,248,500 -Grenadier in UK R 982,744 and in SA is R1,395,000 Land Rover has no tax credits in SA either. Seems to be a mistake in price strategy ....sorry to be direct.” I still have one on ‘order’ pending a real road test. I hope they have improved things substantially! Especially the pedal box was a bad joke.

As an ex-Defender owner (200 TDI 110 CSW, for six years 1990 to 1996 after a Ninety soft top) I'm presently in a rented LHD 110 SW Defender in Iceland (Ford Transit propulsion, probably from around 2015 and 128,000 km). It is today an utter relic, with a terrible offset pedal driving position, has lost the ventilation flaps of old and the flat tea mug dashboard, plus I don't remember stupidity with my own Defender's headlight switch clashing with the ignition key. Some other bad traits include reluctance to shed rpm resulting in driveline shunt however hard you try for smooth gear changes, terrible turning circle, appallingly rough ride on corrugated and potholed 'F' roads and of course the door seals leak in dust and water. BUT it is ridiculously parsimonious on fuel and it's the coolest thing on four wheels in the rental scene. Grenadier's closest rivals seems to me to be the commercial variants of the G Wagen, two of which have been my daily driver for over 20 years. I really hope Ineos soft sell some Grenadiers into the Icelandic rental market, as a week thrashing about in the wilds provides time to either bond or discover why you can't tolerate a vehicle. Hopefully Grenadier's development process has ironed out issues causing the latter.....although some valid gripes are clearly emerging. Update edit, 90km today in limp mode after suspected turbo failure or intercooler hose split. Hoping the Icelandic rental market gets some good deals on Grenadier fleets as the Defenders need retiring!

After watching your informative video, I will only look at the 2nd gen version . The death wobble really got me thinking? Whilst a good few of your points regarding range/ tire up sizing and suspension upgrades won't be an issue for most " Grey nomad " users-the final package price is getting up there for items that should be standard fitment-the difflocks for example. Great insights, thou 🤔👍🙂

100% agree.....they have designed an off road vehicle without addressing the basics for going off road. They needed to talk to off road companies and enthusiasts to get to the core ingredients of what makes an off road vehicle excel in all areas!

Yep after the prototype drive, some of your points were the deal breaker for me. Got my reservation deposit back and bought a 79. Later after seeing the price i would have paid, I'm still ahead.

Hi Stefan, love your work! I am an early Ineos customer (October build date) but your podcast has given me pause. The exhaust bulge into the footwell is worrying as are the low windows for a person of your height. Can I ask how tall are you?

Good piece, mate. Thanks.

Excellent review. Thanks very much.

The foot well on a RHD Jeep Grand Cherokee is like that and very uncomfortable on a long drive so a valid comment. The fuel tank is the biggest miss in my opinion.

Kind of hard to hear...I really want to love this vehicle. But your criticisms are fair and well thought out. Thanks for the video.

You're series of videos on the Grenadier have been unbiased, analytical, knowledgeable and consistent while avoiding the trap of new vehicle hype. History has proven there are often problems with first model runs of a completely new vehicle, no matter how good. It's the reason why I would never buy the first model of a completely new vehicle from ANY manufacturer. No doubt, Ineos with iron out these problems and shortcomings in successive models.

Hi Stefan, Great Vid. It would be hard for Ineos to have nailed this first iteration, so always better to wait for gen 2 I think, or at least 18 months from it being released. That should then expose any of its shortcomings. Btw, are you the same Stefan Fisher who is a Wing Chun (VT) master under Leung Ting and Kernspecht? Can't help but think that maybe you are. Of course if this question doesnt make sense then don't worry about it 👍

All your concerns sound absolutely valid, certainly as you look at all the needs of free time 4x4 drivers. On the other side, if I look at the dimension (room for euro pallet), high trailing capacity, beefy body plating. First for and for all, this 4x4 might become a popular workhorse for construction contractors. To transport small cranes, Bobcats, welding rigs... on a trailer. They want good maneuverability on muddy jobsites and safe trailing on the highway.

Great review. Well done 👍

Brother just subbed you I'm an Irish man living in San Diego. I am thinking about pulling the trigger on one of these rigs but, to be honest as long as the safari windows don't leak and its reliable I can live with its short comings. ideally id want a base vehicle with diff locks and a 2" lift would be nice as well. This is important when they say you can build your own rig its bullshit......unless you are prepared to wait months. in the US they will peddle these trucks with what ever features and try and upsell you into something that your don't want. I hope INEOS does not water down the platform to make money in the U.S. at the expense of its off road prowess. image is almost more important over her over capability hence the term Mall Crawler. I am however excited about having an option to a jeep or Toyota pick up or new bronco. I hope I'm not disappointed. The exhaust reminds me of a chieftain tank lol

Interesting reaction video to the grenadier. Hopefully Ineos will listen to the 4x4 users and implement changes in the next my.

Fantastic review. I think INEOS is open to critical feedback and won’t sideline you. However, they need to get the product into the market and start making it pay for its self. At $130k AUD, I have tapped out on buying one! Your valid points in this video crystalize my thoughts to be a laggard in the market as better options are available in Australia