I've had my Defender TD5 here in the mountains of Portugal for over 15 years and love every troublesome, uncomfortable inch of it. Its taken me places I would never otherwise have been. After all these years, It still makes me smile when I open the garage door. The Grenadier takes the purity of it's DNA, to a level Landrover could never have achieved. I want one so much.
Been a Jeeper for 40+ years but have lately felt it’s slowly been evolving into more a toy than a proper utility vehicle. The Grenadier by contrast strikes me as much more the sort of “adventure vehicle” that can get me through the last decades of me life, so I, like you, don’t mind waiting a little longer for it.
‘Evolved into a toy?’ Really? Give me a break. I’ve owned Jeeps from the the 1940s models to current and the new ones are the most capable ever produced.
Good video. Thank you. Clear communication with examples of valid experience to support your assertions. Too many people fail to differentiate between explication and explanation, thereby confusing both themselves and their audience.
Hi there, you talk about outstanding „customer experience“ because you received a video of your vehicle with the exact specifications instead of a real physical car. You are waiting since months for delivery of your car but you are still extremely happy with INEOS? And you willing to wait „as long as it takes“! You are a very, very loyal customer! I am impressed!
You feel exactly the same as I do. There are a number of folks that simply cannot seem to internalize the gravity of the effort put in to make this all come together. I haven’t been able to drive one myself yet but I have absolutely zero issues waiting for mine for as long as it takes to get it all right straight out of the box. Great content. 👍🏻😎👍🏻
The fact that they were able to pull this off at all is simply amazing. When it was announced, I had my doubts they would ever reach production. But here we are and I can't wait to get mine!
@@LocoCoyote, that’s funny. As soon as I heard about this thing coming, I was pretty psyched up about getting one automatically. I read up about the man behind the project and quickly knew that, yeah, this is absolutely gonna happen. The comment by one of his project managers (I believe it was) said it all. “Jim seems to have an uncanny instinct to hit the bullseye every time. He doesn’t say maybe. It’s either yes or no. If he says yes, you can bet the farm it’s gonna happen.” As soon as they opened taking deposits, I plopped it down right away. Can’t friggin WAIT for these to hit the shores here in the USA. I’m patient and totally get the gravity of an effort of this size. But that doesn’t mean I’m not being a big man baby wanting it right now, lol. I just don’t whine about it, LMAO!!! 🤣🤣👍🏻😎👍🏻
Drove a Trialmaster pre-prod vehicle today for the first time. Loved it. Center diff was locked but didn’t need the rear or front diffs locked. It ate up the terrain, which was the most technical admittedly but still had some challenges. Great acceleration. My favorite surprise was the window armrest. It’s just perfect - flat, wide, perfect height for me.
Worth remembering that Ineos have now said there will be further models - the Grenadier is in some ways only a first attempt and it's a really good start.
My dad is due to pick his diesel version up at the end of the month in donkey grey but we have yet to actually road test a diesel version 😂. I just said to him price has gone up anyway from when you ordered yours and someone will pay to jump the que so just get it and if you don’t like it sell it within 12 months and you’ll make something just for being interested and having the patience will reward either way 👍🏼🇬🇧
I really enjoyed that ! I’ve been following the Ineos story closely and maybe one day in the position to buy one . I look forward to seeing a video of your one and how it gets on in everyday use . Once again great video
I am on my second week of owning a Grennie and could not be happier. I am a bit gobsmacked that it actually made it's way to the USA. Made too much sense filling a niche, was sure it was going to get hung out to dry somewhere in feasibility. So happy that we have this as an option. I look as it as more of a discount G Wagon than Defender as far as how it drives.
I love this statement about all the delays: "If it takes another six months, I don't care. I'll wait as long as it takes to get this vehicle because I think it's going to be a spectacular success" - Well said! 👍 I also don't care how long it takes to get my Grenadier delivered, it's worth all the waiting. In the meantime, I'm happy to drive my 2016 D4. And the Grenadier will be way better for sure, a car I'd like to keep for a long time.
The sheer belief is wonderful to see, I have that exact same belief in what Sir Jim and INOES are striving for. It's patently clear from all content released since inception some three or more years ago. Everything points to the outcome you staunchly support, as do I and many others. There are so many cynics and couch-critics out there who just spew negative codswallop without the faintest factual support, sad. If my situation changes but one Iota I will join the queue again without hesitation.
Grenadier… a new legend in the making, a synthesis, dare I say in many areas an improvement of the Landrover? …either way, Landrover should be proud for inspiring this well thought through, quality build machine, which in time most likely will become a much loved classic.
Thanks Jeremy. Part of the reason for making this video was for other folks like me who had been patiently waiting. I'm sure Ineos have been affected by the same component supply issues facing other manufacturers. Waiting lists for new cars have become part of the 'the new normal' since Covid. I hope you get yours soon.
I agree with you , it is worth the wait, I was in the vehicle industry in Canada back in the late 80's-90's and totally enjoyed my time i was with a dealership that sold Jaguar,Land Rover and Volvo, it was not uncommon for a customer to order their vehicle and wait a few months for it to be built and delivered and most often these buyers were long term repeat owners of these same cars, and often bought their children or elderly parents a new car to have a peace of mind and no problems with an older vehicle, the Grenadier is built on the premise for a solidly built reliable vehicle without an owner worrying about it while working or on holidays with it, I am in Canada and know it will be awhile before they are sold here, which is fine by me and allows me to save up a larger deposit for it, like my Volvo 240 , it is purpose built and reliable and I will definitely order the manuals that'll be available to me, great video 👍
We're in Canada as well. I order vehicles because they never have what I want on lots. We were waiting for the Defender then after seeing disappointing previews went eirh a Wrangler and last year the wife got a Velar. Now waiting for the Grenadier to land here.
Having watched all of the reviews, I was finally able to sit in one here in Australia. The hump on the floor beneath my let foot was annoying, and being 188cms tall would become uncomfortable on a long journey. The engineering on the drivers side windscreen wiper is reminiscent of a series 1 Land Rover. Surely the could have designed the pivot point so that the wiper blade cleaned right up to the A pillar. I don't like the position of the speedometer, and perhaps a Heads Up Display would have been better. Time will tell if it is successful.
Enjoyed the video. Not purely for the fact I have one on order but because we share a similar enthusiasm for the concept of the vehicle. I too have a Defender which I will probably sell on receipt of the Grenadier. The aging design of the Defender is now catching up with aches and pains of my aging body.
It's certainly a looker & I wish Mr Ratcliff the best of luck & success which I'm certain it will come to pass. I also love the back to basics approach too, the best vehicle Land rover haven't produced.
It was interesting listening to your advertisement for INEOS Grenadier, sorry did I mean video! You ask the question, is it Worth the Wait? The answer for me was NO. What surprises me was the customer service you said you had from INEOS. Because my experience was very different. I contacted INEOS, and two of their agents. All of which directed me back to the website, as someone who has dyslexia, That was about as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike! In the almost three years I have waited for INEOS to call me back. I have bought three new Land Rover Defenders and a Range Rover sport. Land Rover may not be the best product in the world. But the salespeople know how to sell, and they return calls and follow up on inquiries
I certainly hadn't seen the video as an advertisement for the Grenadier - just an opinion from an industry professional who happens to be both a long-term Land Rover customer and now one of Ineos. Sorry your own experience wasn't good. Thanks for commenting though.
I think this is by far the best video commentary made on the Grenadier. If I had any small doubts before, after hearing you speak, with clarity, simplicity, and a lot of passion, those small doubts vanished. I was about to buy a 2012 Galway Green Defender 110 with 120,000 kilometers, I'm still thinking about it, but I went to the dealership to see it up close, touch it, and smell the scents of a new car, the smell of its leather. I'll leave the old Defender aside and become an Ineos customer! I can't understand why Land Rover didn't think (as Porsche has always done with the 911) about modernizing the classic model, making it "drivable" without altering its nature and its iconic look. The new Defender hasn't looked good for a long time! A very poorly done mix between a new Range Rover Sport (another terrifying car) and a new Discovery. This will surely bring many customers to Ineos.
I ordered mine last week , I’m fully aware I will wait at least a year for it , got my video emailed to me 15 minutes after I placed my deposit, got an email from my chosen dealership within 24 hours ,and my deposit (vat) receipt within 24 hours, I’m extremely impressed so far with their customer service, this is going to be a good experience I’m sure 👌
Great discussion and why the Grenadier. I have the last of the Defenders here in AU and definitely keeping it. I really love the Grenadier and the concept but unfortunately it is outside my price range. Oh and the Landrover these days is just another luxury car company and no original heritage left in it. Cheers
Man, I love the old Defender as much as anyone. But one thing you can't claim about them, is that they are comfortable to drive. Sure, there is a lot of after market stuff you can do to make them better, but they will always remain somewhat cramped and uncomfortable. This, gives the old Defender's toughness with a level of comfort not available on that platform...
Bang on review. Such a shame that Gerry decided the new Defender needed to be a luxury SUV, not a through and through utility vehicle. Whilst the ND is hugely capable off road, it’s purpose has completely missed the point. The classic Def hasn’t been the ‘best off roader’ for a generation, so making that the focus of the ND and ignoring the true beauty/USP of the classic (it’s simplicity and adaptability), in favour of an SUV or it could be argued, a true Discovery, was IMHO both wrong - commercially speaking, and ignored 70 years of LR/Defender heritage. Why not build exactly what SJR has with the Grenadier? A ground up, brand new Def for the 21c? All the best bits of other utility 4x4s added to the best bits of the flawed Classic Def. If rumours are to be believed, whilst the ND has sold ‘well’, certainly not brilliantly, it’s mainly done so by pinching sales from Disco/Velar/RRS not by entirely new owners from Audi etc, nor by classic Defender owners choosing the ND as a replacement vehicle. Even in the US market, a LR target market for the Def, sales have come from existing LR SUV owners, despite the market having the largest Utility, off road and modifying market in the world. Imagine what LR would have gained had they focused on that market, but they didn’t. Indeed their target audience is amplified by the frankly horrible 130 that’s just been launched, a clear challenger for the bloated American super SUVs such as the Chevy Tahoe or the GMC Yukon, oversized lumps for a single market. So, their loss is another’s gain, imagine the potential for the Grenadier in the US. What’s more, indeed worse, is that LR didn’t need another SUV. Between LR and Jag they already had 7 SUVs (including the Disco) so why another one? The argument that it was a vehicle that was no longer needed and wouldn’t sell, has been roundly dispelled by the Grenadier. As such, I think LR have shot themselves in the foot. The ND is a Disco in all but name, a capable one at that, but a vehicle that has lost the heart, the soul and the heritage of LR in favour of a vehicle that will in the main be bought by people as a luxury, city based family SUV. What they now look like (black, 22” alloys, tinted windows, slammed, ‘Urban’ specced) as they drive around London has nothing whatsoever to do with what Maurice Wilkes initially designed the Series 1 for. Well done Grenadier, shame on you LR and Gerry McGovern.
My company was part off the team which made robotics assembly line for Ineos....I believe it's amazing car like is Defender....but because of price I can just admire both of them 😢
I'm not discussing the Grenadier's performance and off-road capabilities,. In fact, I've never liked it aesthetically, there's something about its shape that doesn't convince me. The 2016 Defender you're driving looks a thousand times better.
I was onboard with you until you talked about its off-road ability. According to all the measurements (articulation, etc.) it's no longer anything particularly special off-road and well exceeded by many other vehicles right out of the factory. That's because the market of off-roaders has become massively more competitive in the last decade, with _extremely_ high-performance vehicles on offer from several manufacturers. Moreover it's questionable how much its off-road performance can be easily improved with aftermarket parts without doing incredibly serious modifications on the bodywork etc. What I do agree with and fully support is how you characterize it as very capable off road and above all more robustly made than perhaps anything out there. Actually almost certainly more robust than anything we've seen (at least in several decades). Grenadier also has a totally new outlook on "right to repair" for customers with open shop manual availability(?) plus customers able to order parts directly. It seems to me that it's primarily targeted as a particularly robust, off-road capable tow vehicle. With emphasis on tow vehicle! That huge weight is a hindrance elsewhere, but helps when towing. Any young lad whose father has ordered an Ineos Grenadier can expect to be driving it one day with their child in the back.
Is there concern of parts availability. I would be concerned if anything broke that Ineos would keep the parts for new units over service/repairs. Has anyone had experience of this yet?
How much space did you have for your left foot and how comfortable was it driving for longer period of time? When I tested it, I felt it lacked space in the foot well especially for the left foot, and the seating did not seem to be symmetric and straight on. I wonder if that was a pre-production thing.
I concur. I sat in one just before Christmas, here in Australia. The RHD driver ergonomics are terrible in my opinion. I am almost 6ft tall and my left leg was jammed up between the wheel and the centre console and with no room to move it as my left foot was plonked on the “foot rest” (exhaust intrusion!), in the cabin. At the same time the brake and accelerator pedals are skewed to the right! So you sit cockeyed with left leg locked high and the right leg stretched out to reach the accelerator. All this from a “clean sheet” design is ridiculous. I had one on order but glad I cancelled because it would be a tiresome and uncomfortable position on long drives like we do here in Australia. A damn shame as I liked other aspects on the vehicle ( maybe not so much the small 90L fuel tank). Oh, and the keyed ignition is weirdly on the left side of the steering column so you have to reach around after you get in to start it - and anything hanging of the keys will probably rub your left leg.
I have to say, I didn't notice it on the demonstration drive but I'll know better once I have taken delivery and done a few miles. Also, I sell Classic cars here so unusual ergonomics are my normal life!
Has to be more reliable than the current LR products, I see they still come bottom on the JD Power surveys, no surprise there! I have 3 older LR but would never buy a newer one.
On the basis he promoted Brexit promised to build it in the UK then bought an ex mercedes factory in Europe I believe I think it's appalling anyone in the UK would even consider buying one. He should sod off to Singapore with Dyson.
The only thing i dont like is the steering damper is on the underside of the front axel, when the vehicle goes up at the start of this video you can see it hanging down, that needs sorting before it will compete in true off road settings...
Really a great off roader .But unfortunately available only in uk and eu.Must think of selling in India.That make sense to value the market and response .
The company has only just started out, give them a chance to rise. If you live in India why don’t you buy the new defender in India because India now owns British company Jaguar Land Rover, which is why we now see this new vehicle because it was a betrayal selling Jaguar and Land Rover to TATA, instead of keeping it British. Jaguar and Land Rover cars are designed by British designers and engineers but funded by Indian money. We sold out. I hope the new Grenadier crushes Jaguar Land Rover, and TATA loses market share. Many loyal Land Rover drivers are loyal to the bone.
@@lordnass381 What does TATA’s ownership of British company Jaguar Land Rover have to do with Britain’s imperial past? I’ve noticed many Indians who seem bitter about Britain’s colonial past in India forget it was a mutual agreement between Britain and India because Britain didn’t take India’s land by force, it was beneficial for both sides, to do with trade. Many Indians want repatriations or apologies for the past but are selective with the truth, by not acknowledging the good that came from Britain colonising India because Britain helped India industrialise, helping to build trains to transport goods and people. Britains military and navy trained India to have a military of their own, and a navy which has helped India to be independent. India’s democracy is based on Britain’s parliamentary system. And English is now the business language of India, a language that came from Britain. Many Indians come to Britain to study at our world renowned universities for engineering, sciences and to be doctors etc. But you just keep mentioning Britain’s colonial past, don’t you. It must be sad to be bitter my friend. Let go of the past and move on.
Check the Lowball hight .I notice that you use a drop plate on the Land Rover 110 You CAN"T use one on the grenadier they have not thought of people who tow 4 wheel trailers. You are unable to use a 2" receiver because of "European" regs
My biggest disappointment is the light grey pillars and headliner in the interior. I hope at some point Ineos offers an all black interior option. The Landcruiser 79 Series has a similar colour and frankly I think it is hideous and I am not the only one that has wished Toyota would provide an all black interior option.
The Grenadier is everything the Defender should have been. JLR dropped the ball…..badly and the new Defender is no Land Rover. The queue for the Grenadier is proof.
Current civilian G-class has independent front suspension. It's not capable of being modified to do things this, 70 series land cruiser or jeep wrangler are.
Ineos may be upping the service levels, but the arrogant other manufacturers will just become more arrogant. I hope Ineos keep up their standards. I will be looking at one in South Africa.
Land Rover have killed the goose that lays the golden eggs. Their stable is now bursting at the seams with mums taxi’s. The brand was built on the rugged toughness of the series 1,2, and three defender, the farmers favourite that you can put a nail of hay in, or a new born lamb, then just brush or wash it out. The latest defender is all leather and pretty, Land Rover no longer have a practical vehicle in their range. This why the grenadier will be such a success. It’s all the things that the current defender isn’t.
We also have a new Defender 110. Great vehicle but it will not be our principal 'tow car'. Soon I'll be doing a direct comparison - Old and new Defender with the Grenadier.
Pity there is no work vehicles. Big cockup , can't get VAT refunded in UK . So have missed a big market for sales. So it's only a 4x4 car , like the new Defender.
@Clovis Point why is it dumb though?They are selling more than 20,000 of em per year. I read somewhere that its the most selling model. As long as they make money and sales dont take a toll its not a bad decision.
The defender literally became illegal to sell as a road car in many markets. Land rover had a choice between modifying it to comply with regulations or stop making it.
Thanks for your insight to buying an Ineos however the old saying applies here "the proof of the pudding is in the eating" please come back in a year and tell us your story.
First production year of a newly designed vehicle of a newly established company. I am sure the car will not have any issues whatsoever and be totally perfect as hoped for in the video.
Good point and only time will tell. In the 48 years I've been involved with new cars, I must have seen the launch of at least 50 new car models from 5 major manufacturers and I've seen my share of new model issues. The involvement of Magna Steyr who build the Mercedes G Wagon, BMW, ZF, Recaro, Carraro, means my confidence is high!
The vehicle is designed by Magna Steyr (the company that designed and is building the G-class for Mercedes-Benz). All of the components are from regular automotive original equipment manufacturers (ZF Friedrichshafen, Tremec, Carraro, Gestamp, Eibach, Bilstein, Recaro etcetera). It is built in a facility that was until very recently run by Mercedes-Benz.
You are not wrong of course...but I have to consider the way they went about the design and the extensive testing they did. They didn't re-invent things, they went to established and proven manufacturers to get the building blocks to put together. They went with companies with proven track records and then put. it all into a whole. Yes, there will be problems, but I am confident they won't be severe.
Wait a minute! You considered a Jeep, you mentioned a G Wagon but you totally dissed the venerable Toyota LandCruiser300 series. What am I missing here?
Land Cruiser 300 is a great durable vehicle, beloved of Australians in particular and one of the greatest 4x4s globally. This video comes from my perspective as someone with four decades of Land Rover experience. To some extent this is a subjective view of mine. Could the Toyota do the job very well? - of course yes. Would I want one? - no. For the same reason I sold Jaguars new not Lexus. They're just not me.
@@Classicandsportscar1 Maybe that could be the same reason why when faced with a brand new Grenadier in gunmetal grey, I just couldn’t bring myself in parting company with my 23 year old Toyota Land Cruiser Amazon and that after owning a Range Rover. Nothing on land comes close to an Crusier, IMHO. I guess the heart wants what the heart wants!👍🏿❤️
The real question is will it be financially viable? No doubt there’s a market for it, but it’s small. I think it will only stay alive if Ineos continues to cross subsidise it.
Its a good point Graham. With the move away from fossil fuels generally, it is hard to predict how viable the Grenadier will be. However Ineos are very committed to its success and it is a project Jim Ratcliffe is very passionate about.
I think there is enough passion out there for a true follow-on from the traditional Defender. I see the Grenadier steadily gaining traction in sales. They need to keep it as simple and repairable as possible. Perhaps they can break ground like sell most parts through Amazon. If they get some military supply contacts (probably small militaries and special forces first), the sky is the limit!
@@Classicandsportscar1 I think with alternative fuels we are going to see serious back-pedaling since we have got ahead of ourselves here... A certain immutable law dictates that energy cannot be created from nothing, but only transferred from one form into another. That 'transferral' process is where the issue is. Availing of electric energy to the EVs that will in-turn generate the wanted kinetic energy is where the problem lies and so there will simply be insufficient movement on the roads with a hard EV-only policy. Unless and until they can perfect a way of transmitting power and charging through electric flux (which I can't see happening for decades), we will need to rely on physical transmission lines. The electric grids are woefully inadequate, even for traditional uses. If you consider that EV charging times will be simultaneous for most of the public, the problem is exacerbated with overloaded lines, voltage drops, fires and black-outs. Unless they are happy to see a transport crisis and economic destruction, it's inevitable that you are going to see ICE powered vehicles, especially bigger cars and towing vehicles, for several decades to come. Politicians will be forced to concede to significant postponements of their deadlines banning ICE-powered vehicles. All the irrational exuberance about alternative energy transportation will be significantly muted!
I get it and it dose look good. But it’s also become complex and by the sounds of it another vehicle that’s a dealer machine, and also is more expensive than the new defender.. i was also disappointed they chose to produce it out side the uk. Personally im in the market fore a decent 4x4 but has to be cost effective and important to be simple and easy to get most services and mantance done by myself or and by any mechanic or independent. Also if it were priced around 40-50k new it would be easy to stomach especially as a business that runs on 0 debt good or bad but asking around 70k+ on the road that’s too much there is still better second hand options on the market that is less risk and easy to swallow. Ineos reminds my what lr did with the defender in the later years and seems to of fallen to the same issues like making it more complex and focusing on the premium end and it concerns me, that ineos seems to follow a similar path and seems to be another expensive luxury yes rugged 4x4/suv and has strayed from the original brief. But i will wait and see how it preforms in the second hand market in a few years time. In the meantime ill be buying ever another Land Rover product which I don’t like the direction they have gone, but I’ve found owning a far few they have been prity reliable and actually surprisingly easy to work on and a tone of decent specialist that are way better than main dealers. And yes I’ve tried so call reliable brands and had worse reliability issues or no better than my experience. But it’s good there’s competition and we will see.
Thanks for your comment, you made me smile! Many years ago I got an unexpected commendation from the Police for volunteering my 110 to rescue people stranded in the worst snow storm for many years. For many hours I drove my 12-seater 110 300Tdi up and down snow covered hills taking people home who were stuck outdoors in terrible weather, some needing essential medicines. Whatever people's views on reliability (often justified because of modern electronics reliability) there is nothing I'd trust more than my old Defenders to get me anywhere. ....... until the Grenadier!
@@rorymundy1790 , your comment made me smile as well. Another one that I hear quite often ( I’m a Land Rover owner) is. Land Rover turning motorists into mechanics for 70 years. (That should be changed to 75 years)
Although I am not in the market for this type of vehicle I would not buy one as a matter of principal. Production was promised by a Brexit supporting Jim Ratcliffe in South Wales. He then abandoned his morals and went on to build it in France. OK there's an economic argument but he abandoned his own principals and lost my respect.
I see your point but I actually think if he'd gone for Wales, we would not have seen production until 2025. Given the changes in our world since 2020 perhaps it would never had been built.
