Inside the ROLAND SYSTEM-8 plug-out synthesiser 

1:03 - "I don't really give a damn, it's down to the sound it produces". Thank you! :-)

Some times, the unpopulated memory footprints are about being flexible with which brand and size of memory they use. I'm a bit surprised it's still done, especially in something as low-volume as a synth, but it used to be quite important to hedge bets when there were memory shortages and more price fluctuation. Could also be for an expanded version; the aftertouch ribbon cable hints at that as well. Maybe we'll know next week. :) As to keeping the power supply external: it simplifies certification/listing. I hate external supplies, but I get why they do it.

Very nice! We missed you Mark

Welcome back! A few thoughts, because it is strange how PCB's often have unpopulated areas. In my mind it usually boils down to the assumption that these products go through several stages of rapid prototyping to filter out any bad ideas or unnecessary components, while also being sure to design the product in a way that it's easy and cost efficient to examine and repair. Being that PCB is so much cheaper to manufacture, massive reduction in labor cost compared to handwired stuff, the fact that Roland have clearly payed attention to how much time is spent assembling these, for example, only a few screws and wires hold the top on, and the fact that all of the I/O is handled on a separate board, making for an easier job to resolder connections if needs be. From a labor cost perspective, this assembly makes quite a lot of sense. It's tight, clean, there are few connections and it's all very modular and clear to examine.

Awesome teardown, thanks Markus!! One modern synth I think a lot of people would be curious to see a teardown of is the Behringer Deepmind 12 considering it's amazing price point, I'd love to see your take on the build quality of the unit/components.

Happy New Year to you Markus. Thanks for the new videos as always.

The tones the Rolland keyboards produce are absolutely fantastic! Thanks for sharing this teardown with us. :)

Very impressed to see you taking apart one of the largest and most expensive new Roland synths. A happy 2017 to you as well.

I love your channel, Markus. I went to subscribe while watching this video and found that I was already subscribed. I must have arrived at this conclusion previously. Thank you for the videos!

thanks for doing this. You are the best !

Another great video Markus. I just love learning about electronics and what all those little chips are doing. The System 8 is amazing. I think Roland is getting better every year. Take care, Sam.

Your videos are fascinating, thanks for revealing the hidden world of synthesis.

Great stuff Markus... I've been waiting for this video before deciding

The good and old fellar flat cable still are there, thank you!

I like the soundbar speaker on top - it looks like an official accessory!

I know not one damn thing about the board however I find all of this Extremely fascinating! Thank you Markus for these videos, your helping me understand little by little with every post.

Great video, Mr. Fuller. I agree about Roland saving vacancies on their circuit boards for expansion. It makes sense.

Here is my 500th like to you, Markus! :) Your videos always very interesting.

You've been missed. Thank you.

Waiting eagerly for the a video showing inside the Behringer Deepmind 12.

Thank you for a nice video and taking this beast apart. It would have been kind of cool to probe all the unconnected cn-points. Not that they might have been connected to an actual circuit or function but yeah you know how it is to be curious :) Thumbs up and have a nice day.

Great video as always Markus! Thank you for this! I'll have to try this synth out next time in in my local music store. =D

Hi Markus. I appreciate this video of the teardown. In fact I enjoy all your videos. However, I wish you could have spent more time describing your opinion on the build-quality, the feel of the plastic case, the knobs/sliders/jacks and all the important physical bits. I think this info would be quite valuable to your viewers. Keep up the good work. Cheers!

Very instructive. Thanks

Hi Markus, it's always interesting to watch your videos, to know what there is inside our favorite beast. I am curious to see how is made the Jupiter-50 / 80, the technology they really use. It's just a suggestion for your future videos :)

You are brave for doing these videos! These are not cheap gear!

Thank You! Thumbs up Indiana USA.

Dear Markus. To take a look inside the gear, seems to be the best remedy against buying it. This kind of "unboxing" really saves my money and my dealer is even more happy because of less returns. =D

Thanks Markus! Interesting. :)

Great Stuff, thanks...I get the feeling that the circuit board was designed for a longer product life cycle than the System 8 lets on to.

Good start to the new year Markus, thanks! I wonder if the stuff missing on the CPU side is provisions for a module version later on with minimal onboard controls, maybe a touch screen of sorts for rudimentary setup. Or it could be for a light version of the synth with the missing chips being flash for factory presets and a bank for users instead of the wonderful array of nobs to tweak. Probably not but just a wild stab in the dark with the I/O and CPU boards being roughly the same size etc.

Thank you for creating these videos. My burning question is, can the green LEDs be replaced with another color like red, blue, orange, or even the best option would be LEDs that can be color selected? Similar to the LEDs on the Roland TR-8S.

I would love to see you do this with a Roland JD-800.

Interesting video! What was attached to the top panel during the intro? Looks like a sound bar? Regarding the missing components I wonder if they trimmed features after production runs for the sake of targeting specific prices. There is a lot of competition these days.

enjoy these videos..

Extrernal power supplies are about cost cutting, in two ways: 1 - configuring the device for different international power standards is just down to swapping out a different DC adapter 2 - using off-the-shelf, OEM adapters means you don't have to get your devices approved by UL or other regulatory agencies, because the power supply already is and the device itself is only getting low voltage DC so the regulations are less restrictive than if it actually took full, mains-level AC and had the power supply inside.

Hi Markus, The main reason synth manufacturers don't mount the power supply inside synths is certification cost. Once there is line level voltage and a power supply inside the case, the synth itself must be built to pass UL, CSA and TUV certification tests. This testing is costly (and destructive) with multiple units being submitted and subjected to all sorts of high-voltage indignities. When I worked in that industry, it was quite normal for manufacturers to submit many different prototypes which would fail the tests in one way or another, go back for iterative improvements before being resubmitted. And of course, each standards agency has their own rules, so the units must pass ALL of the rules for each of the countries under each standards agency. I did a lot of testing of computer modems back in the day, the test they all regularly failed was one that simulated high-voltage power lines falling across telephone lines. 15 or 20 KV would be applied to the phone line input of the modem, and it was not allowed to spurt flame and ignite whatever it was sitting on (special charring paper was used to detect this). It's far easier and cheaper for manufacturers to buy an external power supply from a third-party vendor who has already had that power supply tested and certified, slap their logo/label on it, and stuff it in the box. Or, if you are one of the Chinese manufacturers that sells cheap electronic garbage on Amazon, just (illegally) put a CSA/UL/TUV logo on the device even though it has never been tested, was never certified, and likely does not meet certification standards. This is exceedingly common these days.

I wonder if it would be possible to replace the keybed with a. one with a proper travel and b. a 5 octave one. (obv for b. some rehousing maybe in order as the case is not extendable.)

Very interesting !!!

The memory footprints on the bottom layer may be just for the same memory that is on the top layer, just in a different package. Basically they can assemble the board with either package, whichever they can get hold of cheaper. The un-populated connectors are more of a mystery. My guess is a new or different synth in the pipeline that will use the same board in a different config.

A System-16 sporting a 5-octave keyboard could be very desirable.

Hey mate. Did you by any chance remember if you had a look at the LED's on the front panel? Did you have time to identify them? Would be interested to know if you think it'd be possible to modify it and switch them out to a different colour. White instead of green for instance.

Great Video :)

Wow..there's getting less and less components in these new synths. I suspect the empty spaces on the PCB's are for a follow up model as you say, probably more voices and more plug outs. Maybe a new front panel too. Its a lot of money for so little really. The main Roland ACB chips will be the expensive bit. I need to keep reminding myself its the powerful processing and the custom chips we pay for... but from Roland's point of view they are on to a winner with cheap manufacturing using their branding. I noticed they are made in China too. Hmmm... not that thats a bad thing these days because most musical gear is now. Great Video..glad to see you back after the builders ruined your video uploads :-)

Hi Markus, There is a very simple but also daft reason why power supplies are nowadays often external: As soon as you keep the full net voltage out of the instrument the rules it has to conform to concerning safety and radio denoising drop down significantly. So why not let somebody else (the supplier of the stand alone power supply) bother with it? Another example of how originally well intended burocratic rules can produce pear shaped apples. In the end it is of course still the wrong kind of cost cutting but what else is new?

The other thing that some of those connectors could be for is debugging/development connections, and they just don't populate them on the production boards... but they are present on the prototypes that the engineers have...

With respect to the power brick, I guess that external bricks are available at much lower cost than separate power supply boards that have to be installed (also at a cost). It also keeps a bit of heat out of the keyboard in addition to the RFI you mentioned. Since PSUs are probably the commonest failure point, having it as an easily replaceable brick is also handy, I guess.

Hi Mark. I have a Novation KS Rack that had an unfortunate meeting with a vaporiser and is now missing a fader, snapped clean off. Would you be interested in tearing it down?

about the static electricity, do you know the usual air humidity level in your lab?

Sometimes, boards are developed with extra parts that are used during development but either not necessary or designed out of production. If there isn't a need to spin a new board, they just leave parts off.

It has somewhat of the JP8000 about its look. Nice video Mark, i've heard some complain of its light plastic build quality, how did you find it?

Hi Markus, One could indeed imagine a System 16 as a replacement for the Jupiter 50/80 family, the possible aftertouch option being a good indicator. The new Jupiters have probably not been as popular as Roland hoped, the original being more electronic music oriented but the new interpretation actually more of a live instrument. One could even imagine a mother development system design but they would hardly directly use such a design as a template because it would mean material waste throughout the instruments production life. One additional remark. Al the sounds I hear seem to be awash with effects. To me the Deep Mind 12, which was influenced by the original Juno 106, actually sounds better. That might however only be a matter of perception.

Hi mate, just discovered your channel. I have 1 question, which synth do you prefer. Roland JDXA...or this system 8.? Which do you think is the best? If you could only have 1, which would it be?

Markus, great video. How is the sound of this synth, is it close to the old analog synths? Or sounds like a traditional rompler? Thanks.

Given the number and placement, I'm guessing the unpopulated CN and SW spots are there to make it easier to run diagnostics on the ICs, when these are sent in for service.

There's probably so many empty spacers in there because they want to release a very limited synth at first (although this one is reasonable), so they just have to add a few components to the board to release a "new synth"... Keeps a steady cashflow in the process too. Love your vids Marcus! Keep 'm coming!

Thanks for your great videos, Markus! I've noticed that some synths or controllers have that encoders with 60ppr resolution. For a long time, I was trying to find such encoders, but found nothing in 20$ range. Are they really that rare and expensive? I'm just trying to find a digital replacement for potentiometers with acceptable resolution (more than 30ppr). If you could find model numbers of those encoders while tearing down another synth, I'd be the happiest DIY-er in my village)

SH-101 plugout is available too (in fact, it has been the first one for system-8)

That power supply looks like it's used for dozens of Roland products. Perhaps hundreds.

With regards to Roland and other branded Japanese engineered and manufactured gear, I noticed they tend to use "Jalco" branded connection ports for the rear panel. From my experience, they're not readily easy to replace and if a single quantity needs replacing, it can be expensive (unless someone has them as an OE supplier). When several modern Roland instruments came through my place with damaged/faulty jacks, I thought I could easily supply with another brand only then to discover I had a bit of a search on my hands because Roland North America wouldn't sell nor supply me the individual jacks... unless I became an "authorised service centre." I'm curious to know if this is different in other regions where Roland operates.

Very interesting Marcus. I suspect Roland intend on a System 16 or something, as you mentioned, that uses the same boards. A clever way to cut costs perhaps?

Hi. maybe these spaces are for future up grades to be added. Interesting.

Would you like to show us how to swap the green LEDs to something less awful?

Hey Markus, I've learned a hell if a lot with your tear downs, but I've a question you may be able to help me with? I have a Yamaha AW2400 and one of the transport keys is sticky on the first press and is OK thereafter, but it so seldom used that it always sticks on the first press. Should I scoosh it with WD40, open up and scoosh it, not scoosh it at all, or open it up and have a look? It's well past it's warranty and Yamaha don't support it any longer. What do you reckon?

Would it be possible to modify and expand the System8 using the unpopulated spaces on the Mainboard?

Great look inside this modern beast. At 4:42 you are right about the memory. I think it is flash memory that used to hold the program data during software development. The footprints look like something like this would fit onto them: de.farnell.com/micron/m29w640fb70n6e/flash-bottom-block-64mb-29w640/dp/1224423. After completion of software development the content is written into the chips themself while the footprints can stay in case they need more flash in later versions or products that are also based on that board. On the top there are 6 unpopulated connectors which I believe are JTAG connectors for debugging and programming the flashs.Note, the STM on the button+pot board has a similar footprint for an unpopulated connector which I am almost sure is JTAG. There is also space for mousepianos (DIP switches) that are unused. However if you look at the bottom side you can see these two groups of 12 resistors that look suspicously like they put them as replacement for the DIP switch settings there. A bit dissapointing is the note: "Roland....Made in China" on the board.

Say, what is that long, square thing mounted on the back of the System 8 ( in the very beginning ) ??? Almost looks like a speaker? ...but then it's gone by the 0:34 mark.

Quite a few keyboards I understand have an external power supply mounted inside, the Korg M3 and the Waldorf Q are like this (the Q is mounted so that the figure-8 connector on the PSU is facing the back panel with a hole on the back panel so you can plug it in). Roland just seem to be lazy in that respect and weirdly it only seems to be Behringer that have a hatred for external PSU's and only their smallest mixers and stomp boxes have them (even the new version of the dinky 802 mixer has one) Personally with my SH-201, R5 and MINIAK I have mounted PSU's in all of them with no ill effects monitored. And the big question, will you be getting a DM12 or have you go one from Thomann already :)

I was expecting to see some sort of master processor. I wonder if all the operational code runs on one or more of those BMCs chips? Unless there was something on the left side that was shown only for a second ( looks mainly like a controller/IO board, with the keyboard going into it - not much there, so would not expect any sort of CPU or FPGA etc.)

I think some connector pads that aren't fitted could be for development purposes, to connect to Roland's own development hardware. As for places where no chips are present, this might be because the board has been designed for different RAM chip sizes? or so additional RAM can be fitted during development (debugging). These are just theories :)

Hello Markus, is there any battery in the System 8 for memory purposes?

a nice beast but that i don't advice to dismantle and even less to change the battery, without earthing, and or contract of sas !! itheir for the korg Z1 !!!

Markus, if you buy the plug out for Moog Modular, can I haz your Moog modular? I can split the cost of shipping with you ;)

Is there a better version of this thing, maybe thats the reason for the "missing" parts?

Does it come with a sound Bar?

i prefer analog synths because there oldschool xD i own an crumar bit one with ssm2044 filter chips

Three processors for 8 voices makes no sense. I guess this guy can produce much more voices or the third one is used for effects, but you would normally use a different processor for effects than ACB chips. My guess is the ram at the underside is for the system-8 engine and patches, while the three others are for the three plugout synths. Each chip should bring 4 voices, because every engine can either have 4 or 8 and you can layer two engines with four voices each, which would mean 12 voices are theoretically possible. The System-12 may have the same board, but will cost more?

Liked the video. Interesting that Roland do all the heavy lifting with their own chips - that must cost a fortune to develop! But only 8 voices, only 4 octaves, no aftertouch - for a flagship synth costing £1300? The bean counters have lost this long-time Roland customer.

Ahhh Markus, there's no bean counters like Roland's bean counters when it comes to strip stuff off from products, ohh and also nobody repackages stuff like them too

Thank you very much Markus ! I've been looking for exactly that: a look inside this new virtual analog synth. And as I've suspected, it looks a lot like the insides of the JP8000 from 20 years ago: thumbs3.picclick.com/d/w1600/pict/272392183074_/Roland-JP-8000-Mainboard-for-parts-or-repair.jpg Big DSP chips with their memory. Yawn. Roland simply managed to redo the same with one fewer DSP chip thanks to today's technology. $2000 for this ? No thanks. I'd rather get myself a Deepmind 12 real analog twelve voice synth, for half that price, instead.

I'm pretty sure that those large chips emulate individual analog components to make for very realistic analog emulation. The power supply probably wasn't built in because I'm pretty sure there are tons of approvals that you need to get when implementing a power supply into a unit, it's faster and cheaper to go with an external one. I think that's also the reason why it took so long for the MatrixBrute to come into production. Will you be getting you hands on a MatrixBrute by any chance?

This synth I’m wondering if its easy to mod and change the led color. That green is too much for me...

What are the odds of being able to repair these units 10/15 years from now? It doesn't look good with everything being so small. I have a feeling we'll be throwing a lot of these in the trash unlike the older synths that we can still repair.

I don t think that the system 8 sound like jupiter 8 or any analog synth

Why don't you use an electric screwdriver when you have 100 screws to remove??

a lot of plastic and no metal in sight. very disappointing for a flagship product. great teardown, thx.

wish the keys were higher quality !! feels like a cheap casio keyboard

u know when u buy a yammaha pss100 or pss 200 or psr 10000,they usually have the same amount of keys with the basis price starting at 100pounds want dsp another 30pound chord memorey another 30pound until the boards fully lopaded like a djx or dgx which used to cost 400plus

Don't you think Roland must be making good margin on these ACB products? Look at that huge lump of plastic which has less guts than a cheap laptop! Oh well, if it sounds good that's the main thing

Another Roland technology that got dropped before they fully utilized it. Next stop "Zen-core".

1:10 all people that hace a opinion preffer Analog