Is Age Of Sigmar being replaced by Warhammer The Old World? Probably Not! Discord - / discord Twitter - / jayoddity Follow Me On Twitch - / jayoddity #Warhammer #GamesWorkshop
@@AlwaysStrikesBack Same however ironically for how much i love WHFB i wouldn't play it as a skirmish game. when putting 40k next to AoS well my friend has to fight real hard to get me to pull my Skaven or beatsmen out to play AoS over just playing Sisters or Guard in 40k. And one of the things i think why i LOVED Fantasy so much (despite hating unit trays) was that it was a whole diffrent level of strategy and no not everyone is going to like that style of strategy. Most people like "heroic main character solo beats evil army" rather than a story of soldiers each playing bit parts to progress to the end, and i think that detail somewhat carries over to tabletop games where players obsess over particular models or heroes and not over formations (real formations not the stat bonus bullshit)
Its said that they have planned kislev and cathay models. The first thing my mind goes to is that they can start double dipping. Releases for old world can be easily implemented into aos already.
Fine by me, as long as there is a standardized rank and file fantasy game that unites the community. Hopefully we can easily find opponents and events again. Just can't get excited about AOS as it's too much like 40k, but without lore that I enjoy (20+ HH books read since I last played 40k). If GW make extra money by supporting R&F warhammer then good for them.
I love the models from AoS, but the lore is what keeps a lot of people collecting, and I think tossing out all that old world lore for the weird ass AoS lore drove me away personally.
These people obviously don't know anything about Warhammer Age of Sigmar lore, they just believe the fakes. Just like they don't know anything about the "old world" lore, they just love it blindly.
Thank you for getting to the point. I think WFB never had the marketing and resources GW have chucked at AOS. So it is only logical that AOS sells better. I really hope the new fantasy splits off so they can develop new lore and keep progressing the story.
AoS also had a cleaner/simpler rule set and low model count. Though this is obviously not true any more. WFB suffered from an overly complex ruleset and high model count but at this point AoS is probably worse now... Also AoS isn't a wargame, it's a glorified customisable card game with models vaguely placed on the table.
A multiverse event would be pretty interesting. It's true that WFB didn't have the GW support like AoS, but there's a big question of how popular it would be even with that.
AOS looks like 40k fantasy if I wanted to play 40k I would just play 40k. I wanted to be a rank and file wargamer in a fantasy setting. I believe WFB died because GW killed it. You cannot have a rank and file wargame that costs thousands of dollars and have it be popular.
Not a chance. There are a lot of people who love the idea of warhammer fantasy. I started this hobby with warhammer fantasy decades ago and it was something special...until it wasn't. I'd say 90% of the folks who get angry over AoS's existence have never actually gone through the grueling task of playing WHFB, it wasn't fun. It was full of dirty cheap messy rules and obnoxious tactics and cost a horrible premium to get into. I'll admit to joining in on the blind hatred for AoS when it first dropped, how could I not? it 'killed' fantasy after all (As if it willed itself into existence using WHFB as a blood sacrifice?)..But I finally took the plunge, tried it out in mid 2019 and i've been hooked ever since, not only by the gameplay but by what they've managed to achieve with its lore and world building from the disastrous shallow mess it was in 1st edition, which by the way, you wont find anyone defending, even AoS fans. Regardless, AoS has been more successful for GW than fantasy ever was and while people are quick to blame GW simply mismanaging the IP(which definitely was a factor) they fail take into account how painfully small of a playerbase it had and how vehemently against any form of change that playerbase was either to the settings lore or the games mechanics. It a corpse and although that same management was responsible for the disastrous launch of AoS it was still, imo, the correct move, looking at it with a clear head retrospectively. Thankfully as stated, AoS wont be going anywhere and while a vocal minority might spam every forum and comment section with the same vitriol that was being thrown the games way all the way back in 2015, it has grown a considerable following and as a game and setting itself has grown and shaped into something pretty darn cool.
I am sort of hoping for a more simplified version of Fantasy, it was quite messy for sure. I hope they really ignore the old purists in a way for the health of a better game, but if it is just 9th edition, I will play but I would be sad.
@@AlwaysStrikesBack it really wasn't that complex, just adding extra stuff to combat resolution , it was nice attacking an enemy from behind actually mattered
It's going to be interesting to see how many former WHFB players return for TOW. I suspect the people running Ninth Age will be working fast and furious to remind people of their game's points of difference.
I never thought it was replacing Fantasy. They released new factions and a new sub faction in AoS and if they were getting rid of it in 2023-2025 (whenever Old World comes out) that wouldn’t make sense. At most there would be some sort of time travel magic where good guys split the timeline where one branch leads to. AoS and the other the End Times failed. That would be really dumb but that’s the only way I can think Fantasy would continue past the in universe dates that the End Times happened (idk if that makes sense). Basically it’s a HH situation where the ending is set in stone but you can play in that time.
Aye it won't replace it, it's set many hundreds of years before AoS and the end times, so maybe if fantasy pops off and is super popular they could retcon it.
What I'm worried about is how they will stop me from playing my 6000 euros of models from back in the days. I've like 5 ready-for-tournaments armies...
Personally i much prefer AOS over WFB, it is a mad greek god setting that has expanded hugely into so much freedom. The only reason why there are no good AOS video games is because none have been made yet, would like to see the dawn of war team have a crack at it.
I am one of those "Fantasy" purists who never picked up AoS. That being said I'm still glad both fans of either can enjoy battles the way they'd like to. I just hope they support fantasy like they do AoS or 40k
Hmm GW may only be getting 10% of their total revenue but the companies making the fantasy games will be getting much much more. I am not sure I agree about it being less popular than HH simply because the old world and AoS are very very different, whereas 40k and HH are quite different.
I think we will see a 4 year release cycle of WH40k, AoS, AoD30k, WH:tOW. A LOT of AOS models being released seem like they could double as WH:tOW models too.
I never played Fantasy and I’m a current AOS player, I was a 40K player and have a Death Guard army. But AOS is just better than 40K right now and I enjoy playing it more. But I’m definitely getting into the Old World when it drops! Hell yes! I can’t wait !!!
i sold my armies. i was hhurt and betrayed i didnt play warhammer at the point but i always thought it was there if ever i wanted to go back and when they got rid of it i felt betrayed
@@AlwaysStrikesBack i havnt decided to be hones. i havnt gone back to gw since, i sstill play blood bowl but i buy my teams from either third party models or second hand, im still mad they wiped my years of playing ( i mostly only played warhammer, i had a couplek of 40k armies but never enjoyed it, but i loved the fluff) so as you can imagine all that mone yall that time just gone just like that.
I’ve just never been able to take to age of Sigmar. I preferred the figures and the world of Warhammer fantasy. So really hoping TOW gets something special. I need to collect that high elves, vampire counts and empire armies I couldn’t afford as a child!
@@AlwaysStrikesBack I know the feeling. I was a time rich cash poor teen with my warhammer. Now I’m an adult working I can afford more, but struggle to have the time to give it the dedication it needs!
AOS lore wise is meh. WHFB Old World is far more rich, interesting and full of detail. GW should've waited put it on the back burner because the Vermintide and Total War series have revitalised peoples interest.
Fingers crossed 🤞 that they just gonna teleport AoS back in time, lol - count me as salty man that wants to protect Fantasy from AoS. I mean yes AoS has bunch not bad ideas, but very dumbed down gameplay, if they wanted to "IMPLEMENT" new stuff - why not just add up to old world, why ruin beloved Fantasy and set fanbase ablaze into madness. AoS more popular because COVID was a thing, and in times of Fantasy... most people didn't had internet nor shitload of money. But looking like GW tries to kill off fanbased with LGBT inclusion to 40K.... welp, seems they using are not very good strategies. Fantasy > AoS < 40K ( So at best chances, AoS good only as source of materials to update Old World Fantasy - by time travelling)
Age of Sigmar seems so boring from story perspective. 40k story is really interesting. Found it from the phone game and learning about it from the actor Henry playing it. Made me look into the story of 40k, and I really enjoyed it. Checked out AoS, and it was poop. I think 40k is way cooler than AoS, and since it has Superman backing it and there is a phone game, it's clearly the better story. Not to mention Space Marine video game. So yeah AoS is poop.
I like age of Sigmar it would be cool if they made a soul bound RPG video game. The game is just fun to paint and look at let alone play. If people are salty it's because fantasy was discontinued. Although fantasy still lives on in my heart age of Sigmar is the way forward.
WFB was what got me into the hobby. I wanted to be a general in a medieval world. There is a reason why all the IP is with 40k and the old world stuff.
See I'm big fan of AOS it's what got me in to Warhammer so getting read of it would be stupid. It brought a lot of new players to the board. I know a lot of old players were upset that they got rid of Warhammer fantasy so this way they can have both.. which to me is a good thing there's never enough Warhammer
Old world is basically just the horus heresy stuff. An alternative thing to play form the main game but gives us more models to kitbash and gives them more IP to farm out. My cities of sigmar army is snow themed so it'll be great to get bits from kislev and throw it on my dark aelfs, but AOS has the best rules so i doubt ill be playing any fantasy
Only if they supported those old armies that people liked in AoS such as Tomb Kings, those other Empire dudes other than you know farting them into wherever i believe it was the 30yrs or so of history they just threw away and that alone is what pissed people off or it could of been the whole "Chaos won :^)" the Lore can be what it is yeah i can understand some parts suck or is pretty stupid but it still happened in series i like theyve done really stupid things that i dont like & i know how it feels even if they're bring it back the damage is done I just don't believe that GW is capable of supporting all of their games seeing their track record, kinda wish they'd bring back Man O' War and make it a skirmish game like Kill Team.
not intentionally no, but total war brought up massive interest in the old setting. Not sure how the AoS lore is now, but a common critisism is that AoS lore is shallow, over the top and difficult to relate to. While WHFB is more on par with 40k, wich is massively popular partly for that very reason. Players both old and new might realise the differences in the writing of the lore/s and feel WHFB is more interesting and leave AoS for that reason mainly
Yes Age of Sigmar is selling better than Warhammer Fantasy did, but I think that is mainly because Games Workshop has been doing a lot more in terms of pouring resources into marketing Age of Sigmar than they did Warhammer Fantasy. If Games Workshop had put in the same amount of effort into marketing Warhammer Fantasy, I think that it would have sold a lot better. When Warhammer The Old World is released, if Games Workshop prioritise marketing it as much as they have with Age of Sigmar, I strongly suspect that Warhammer The Old World will far out sell Age of Sigmar.
In all honestly I don't think that would have happened. There are a lot of reasons AOS DID better that went beyond just IP and marketing. From game mechanics and user taste. As we can't forget WHFB didn't just die over a few years. It was struggling near a decade before it finally got axed. And to their credit GW did put legitimate effort over the years to pump marketing and resources into the game system. But it just continued to stagnate especially in relation to its sister product 40k. I'm not saying the IP isn't popular and there isn't a market for rank-and-file but the issues with fantasy was beyond just a lack of marketing, which in all honesty seemed to stem from its sales stagnation, rather than being the cause of it.
Games Workshop should of just released Mordhiem again at this point. Just look at how well Necromunda has got. Tho I do wonder if Conquest the Last Argument of Kings, Game of Thrones game and the Mantic game have made GW realise that rank and file is still popular. I do quite like Age of Sigmar and bought a few battle tomes for the lore but it's needs said it was the Old World that I loved. Even the old world novel's were some of my favourites growing up. As much as I loved 40k back then I definitely think I bought a lot more of the Old World books. At one point I couldn't get enough of Gotrek and Felix. Tho Gotrek and the Daughter of Khaine just doesn't really appeal as much. I have the Mordhiem rule book and Empire in Flames to go with it. I just don't think they have captured anything nearly as good as Mordhiem did. The rulebook was and still is my favourite thing they have produced. The art the vibe even the narrator of each gang is just top tier stuff. Very excited by Old World coming back tho I will wait and see. The new 30k box also excited me but I've not dived in personally...
@@AlwaysStrikesBack it's a damn shame if we get Old World but no Mordhiem, I remember people thinking Warcry would be the AoS version. I was one of the people bought into it for that reason lol. Tho I've still got my Ogre Kingdom's battle force box (£40 or £50 unreal value back then think that was the price) on sprue from waaaaay back so I'm hoping they come back with the Old World. I've even bought some AoS stuff for Ogres that hopefully can be used with Square Bases. Give me Greasus Goldtooth and the Ogre Gorgers (have one in metal still) and I'll be super chuffed! Possibly my favourite army book other than Skaven tho we shall see :D
@@deffkon_c1242 the characters will mostly not be the same for old world , it's in the time of Magnus , but could use old models to rep for default lords
@@deffkon_c1242 If you want a quality fantasy skirmish, Frostgrave is awesome. I actually think it's the best miniatures game I have played, closely followed by original Necromunda, Blood Bowl, and Warhammer 7th edition (also Warhammer 40k BUT only 2nd edition...)
They could have had new rules for fantasy, and a refreshed look. The real question is; is the **setting** more popular, and that's much more difficult to answer.
How did the Old Warhammer Fantasy play? I played it....But Its really 15 or more. And Since 2017 I played AOS...and I like the Rules. Not the new Factions and the Shitty lore....and the Double Turn? But....
Big question there. There's no double turn. Honestly it depends on your army, you play to your strengths, dorfs don't move much and shoot. Others might charge full steam at you. Movement was important as it was generally about who got the charge but sometimes that didn't matter in the big combat blocks. I'd watch some batreps for bette runderstanding
@@AlwaysStrikesBack I will too. I guess we will find out! Warhammer and Tabletop stayed we me for the past 30 years...and The Tabletop Future is bright. CHARGE...for tha lady!
I doubt that wargame a Song of Ice and Fire had much to do with it, more like they seen people go to Mantics Kings of War instead...cant have people go to the competition.
@@AlwaysStrikesBack I mean if you monetize the channel I can see why you would post a video. Have a good one, there are tons of channels out there that don't post a video about a subject that would need less than a paragraph to answer it.
@@PyrrhusBrin I am not those channels. With all due respect, I won't let people tell me what I can or cannot make a video about. If I want to make the video I will do so. And right now, nearly 10k people have clicked this video, so it was at least interesting to some.
I haver never played warhammer games but i fancy giving it a go I am more interested in the army clashes and castle attacks. Can you recommend one of the war hammers
AoS is, and will remain more popular, I think castles probably fit fantasy more but you can do both. It's hard to say, fantasy will be rank and file, meanign you wil lhave large units moving in big quares together, aos maybe looks more natural to some.
Gw need to make the old World as a alternate activation. It would be awsome,more engaging,refreshing and hnostly all of us who play other rank and file will come back.
@@AlwaysStrikesBack Isn't this somewhat of a self fulfilling prophecy? They make more content for Fantasy (and it has the legacy), therefore it is more fleshed out and more interesting making it more popular, and the cycle repeats. I feel like tying things together between AoS and Fantasy could pull things together. Marketing wise I think it is a weird desicion at least, as it would definitely pull more player towards AoS, or at the very least, by fleshing out the setting to a larger extent (in a form of media that isn't just books, as only people who are already invested read those, realistically) might lose its bad reputation.
When we talk about Total War players joining the hobby, we ought to remember that there’s a big difference between spending $60 on a video game and being able to play immediately, and spending hundreds on an army, assembling it, painting it, and then being able to play. TOW is probably going to be more expensive than any other R&F wargame out there. It’s possible that a lot of TWW players will come in, but it’s also possible that they’ll join the legions of 40K fans who look at the lore, video games, books and fan content, but never get into the hobby. I want TOW to succeed, but GW has failed the setting before.
It's a valid point, even people curious about tabletop will not be all the people who come over, but even if TOW doesn't sell big, they at least have the tabletop game to help expand the license
I have been laughed at when I said GW should have split the timelines, Age of Sigmar starting with end times, while old world doesn't get involved with end times, Two different settings, and GW can make money from everyone.... but no can't sell space marines in the old world.
@@AlwaysStrikesBack I feel like that's a bad idea, cause someone said it best on reddit, if GW does make amazing characters and empires and hits this out of the park, we already know what's going to happen, they get destroyed.
Wouldn't mind if they did. Maybe like, Sigmar's been working on restoring the Old World in Azyr. Something goes on in the realms, everyone moves back to the Old World for whatever reason, then we get both the other Realms and the Old World
The old world will need good rules set, and that will tell us if this will take off. There is a legacy of miniatures that will allow people to jump in right away. And some may even use the age of Sigmar models as proxies to dip their toes into the water. However, this will likely take time to build momentum, and the schism between the two games will predictably grow. And they will have new people like me from Total War who finally got a chance to experience the setting without that massive price tag. I am personally hoping for a revival of some dead factions like the chaos dwarves or an actual line for Vampire Coast and Cathay. But I will settle for Brettonia's Return.
It does seems a bit like a marketing blunder to axe WH Fantasy while the Total War Warhammer trilogy of games is such a huge hit and completely ignores Age of Sigmar. I really don't get this... 😕 I'm sure a lot fans of the games never played the tabletop but might be interested but... that version is no longer supported... The series has sold over 32 million copies (all total war games but just to point out what a gigantic market it is) in total so what's going on here?
Never got into AoS...if I wanted a skirmish I would play 40k and If I wanted lovely rank and file "historical style tactics" game I would play WHF. Replacing WHF with another skirmish game made AoS redundant to me. I may check out ToW but if they go too hard into making the older WHF models unplayable and have to start from scratch I will probably pass.
I mean I'm playing 40k now and think the rules for AOS sucks. If they bring back fantasy in some form I'd find it hard not to go back to it (long as the rule set looks good). Wouldn't surprise me if it ends up being pretty popular.
No, don’t say that. I want my 8000 point Bretonian army back on the battle field. I’m really not interested in this fantasy space marine wannabes. Also to make a point, the idea of AoS was Actually floated way back in 1993 I think it was to do with more of the chaos northern wastes encroaching on the old world.
I'm curious to see what GW has in store for The Old World, mostly for the miniatures. But I don't like square bases, rank and file games so there's no way is it replacing AoS for me. I imagine Old World will be more like Horus Heresy.
Destroying the world was the mistake. The world was so rich and had so much potential. New models and gaming system would have been fine. They shot themselves in the foot with that one.
One thing to think about is that GW's deal with New Line is up next year, and Embracer, who own Asmodee, have brought up the rights to all Middle Earth games. GW may well have been expecting not to be able to keep MESBG and slotted the Old World in as a replacement for that rather than AoS. Long term though if the AoS slide continues (the next ICv2 will be really interesting) I can see TOW and AoS switching places in priority at GW.
I love AoS cuz the models imo are better and overall I liked the setting and lore... The only thing stopping me is my wallet is too weak to start the hobby.
And yeah the weak wallet right now is difficult, I would maybe look at trying a skirmish game like kill team /warcry maybe, or neither if money is that tight
Honestly, I wish that it would. I would love it if GW ended AoS with another total victory for Chaos and then cut to Lord Kroak waking up in Lustria saying "it will not be," revealing that the End Times and AoS was only something that could have been if the Great Plan failed and never actually happened would make me very happy.
I think it's also sort of why food and drink companies kill off a product and bring them back, it sort of just renews interest in it when the product stagnates.
It was a breath of fresh air for you to just state your opinion at the beginning of the video. Still watched the whole video and enjoyed the explanation.
I think some times a point take a little longer to explain but I was a bit wary that people might take this video as like a serious question, so shoved it right at the start. Thanks :)
I mean, it isnt hard to argue that AoS is more popular than WF when GW had spent almost 15 years kicking the dust on it. And without the sale number it is hard to make out how really successful AoS. But there are two points where I think AoS failled. It isnt an IP jugegernaut (just check how many youtubes chanels are there dedicated to AoS lore or gameplay, AoS really needs its DoW/TWW advertising) and stormcast are just poison brand (for some they will always be the kid friendly fantasy marines who killed WF.) Now what is going against TOW is current economic shamble. Lots of people will have to cut off expens and GW will have to cut off some fat. My theory is that GW had decided to postopne TOW release for a few years because of that. But lets say the situation will fix itself. There will have to be bigger compatibility between AoS and TOW than between 30k and 40k simply because almost half of AoS is made out of TOW models and factions. And why shouldnt Delves get monster girls when Dok has more delves units than AoS models. What about updated skaven and lizardmen models? Gravelords and std are updated VC and woch. Steampunks dwarfs may not fit TOW but AoS has normal dwarves in CoS. And the list goes on. Basically, I dont think we will see stormies in TOW but GW will start selling and overprices square frame for models on the round bases. "Don't fear the company who sold 1,000 models. But fear the company that has sold one model 1,000 times."
I would love to have seen WFB if GW supported it like AoS, like then we would truly know. There are some big questions of how AoS and The Old World will differentiate themselves. Will cites army be phased on of AoS maybe?
@@AlwaysStrikesBack like I said, it was for the first two editions of 40K. I think the change came with 3rd edition 40K and 5th/6th edition fantasy. The former was much more beginner friendly and GW stores adopted a very effective strategy of starter games in store (they remain very good at this, my son had a taster game of Warcry when it came out and they were really good), and really started pushing it over fantasy. At the same time fantasy entered it's "Herohammer" phase where not only were the number of troops cost prohibitive but you also needed expensive character and monster models to be competitive. They could have revived it's fortunes in the early noughties with a range refresh and promotion but instead they split their focus and player base by launching Middle Earth.
Just keep AOS as is but place it in a reborn old world. I actually have my own fan made version of the old world where I play with my minis and have made up home brew lore to add the armies that exist in AOS but didn’t in fantasy
@@AlwaysStrikesBack I just feel like it’s a healthy middle ground between the two system taking the many strengths of AOS while retaining that awesome lore that the old world had and tweaking it to include armies like I said, I even think the grand alliance system makes a lot more sense in the old world as great powers and new gods rise and nations unite and create ties to maintain the balance of power. Really all we are missing is Brettonia ( I have them annexed by a resurgent Empire under Sigmar to fill the map gap but I have hopes they will one day return so I can retcon that or create some sort of order civil war )
@@Betterthenme It will be curious if they go the same way with gran aliances or not, to me it sort of felt like they wanted humans vs humans for some reason
@@AlwaysStrikesBack in my opinion it’s a great optional rule and internal conflicts can still exist with power struggles and rivalries still existing inside of the alliances. I do wonder if they will have some sort of system similar to it in the old world or if they will just copy and paste the AOS grand alliance system with new flavour text. Arguably making it as compatible with AOS as possible is their best bet and could even be a way to introduce lost armies into both systems with 0 complications.
@@AlwaysStrikesBack This is an extremely stupid idea. It's like squeezing the entire galaxy 40k into one tiny planet. And this is especially offensive to me. Warhammer Age of Sigmar gives infinite freedom to "my dudes", and in the old fantasy world this could not be.
So this guy got almost as many comments as subs I think and by the comments he done a good job on the vid give him a sub let’s help him out to produce more content.
