long time no see. happy pride! Help Lama's Family: www.gofundme.com/f/help-lama find me on tiktok @pinkygunslingy b-roll credit / @snokiez / @point_zero / @gtaseriesvideos7728
Arthur is the type of straight dude you take to a gay bar to be your DD and ends up wearing several bead necklaces, gets an ally pin, and clotheslines a homophobe. He doesn't know why people call him "daddy" but he's not gonna ask and assumes it's meant to be a compliment
I love how nonchalant Arthur/John treat nonconforming people. It reads very well given that theyre also nonconforming to society, albiet with a lot more robbery and murder. I often wonder if that was intentional.
They give off "Sure they're weird but who the hell am I to judge I kill people." vibes lmao. Fr tho Arthur especially is just ur kind but slightly ignorant dad or smthn when it comes to that stuff its kinda sweet
@TheCompleteMental @corey6536 this could explain why Arthur is not a racist man, and treats everyone fairly equally (with his dry wit and sarcastic tone) as well as apparently not understanding systemic racism in Lemoyne when Lenny brings it up in conversation. Arthur pretty much grew up with Dutch and Hosea, two outlaws with very specific philosophies that are opposed to the status quo of American society (which would include racism or sexism inherent at the time)
@@waldo5017 The women in the camp are also treated primarily as equals. Camp chores are distributed evenly among those who are present to do them, and characters don't mock the women for being weak or whatever one might expect from that time period
@@hand13932 this is also true. It's also interesting that the racist members of the camp (like Micah and Bill) came from outside originally and grew up more exposed to that environment before they came into the gang
Nonconforming people always existed and the gang is made up of ethnic groups that were discriminated against hard at the time. You’ve got African Americans, Irish, John & Arthur are Scottish & Welsh of heritage, Javier’s Mexican, etc. not to mention Abigail, despite some japes, was a sex worker and its implied - tho Micah complains about not being able to touch any - that the other ladies (Karen) also participate in it. They might even joke with Bill but I think they accept his sexuality more than other groups do.
I always think about when Charles Chatenay(?) kisses Arthur and he just says "Please don't do that again." Like Arthur doesn't say anything homophobic he just (rightly) asserts his boundaries and moves on.
This scene was even funnier for me because I did like half of the missions for that branch as Arthur and Charles just had to wait 8 years to escape america
I think Bill's case is also better than the standard angry closeted man because this setting produces violent men in general. It's not just his repression and it's plausible he wouldve ended up the same way regardless of sexuality. Well maybe not, with the attempted murder charge. That's 100% a gay experience.
he definitely was. but so were a lot of outlaws/cowboys. outlaws specifically because it's pretty easy to shrug off social expectations when you've kind of separated yourself from them - as far as the law goes, anyway.
Not gon lie, you could've used the out of focus Pinkerton footage and I probably wouldn't have noticed. RU-vid videos are podcasts for when I'm at work, and yours are peak no matter what.
I really had to look through the comments and I’m surprised no one points it out but I’m the valentine saloon fight, when bill runs into that stranger the guys say “I can’t tell if he’s gonna fight him or kiss him”
One thing I find interesting from a writer's perspective is how they made Bill the mastermind behind the Valentine bank robbery with Lenny and Karen. It was by far the gang's most successful heist we see, but it gets little attention. Gameplay-wise, money becomes a non-issue after that mission, and the player has Bill to thank for it.
Exactly! Shitty as Bill can be, he is absolutely correct when he points out that everyone rubs his mistakes in his face while ignoring his accomplishments. The dynamite on the bridge wasn’t even his fault; the O’Driscolls were morons who didn’t know how to store dynamite in damp or cold weather. ESPECIALLY given how many hare brained schemes Dutch has to fumble before people start openly doubting his competence. It must feel really bad to be called an idiot by the man who decided to outright stroll up to the local law enforcement and introduce himself.
One other detail that I think hints to Bill's insecurities is his choice of ride which is a big-ass war horse. It's not the fastest breed around, but it allows him to look bigger than his companions.
@@laserdiscisawesome1263True, but it is also worth noting that he named the horse ‘Jack.’ Which is both a very masculine name for a horse, and is also very simple and down to earth. I don’t think Bill would be caught dead riding a horse named Bodecia or ‘the count.’
I think they probably did as good a job as they could indicating that Bill is gay without directly showing it. Primarily because, I don’t think it’s something Bill is fully at terms with either. As with a lot of things, Bill is a character out of step even with most members of the gang, who deride him as incompetent and stupid whenever they can, while failures of characters like Arthur are written off as “one of them things.” Some people think he’s meant to be autistic or neurodivergent to some degree because of this and while I don’t know to what degree that was intentional, I do think that Bill is supposed to be _different,_ even to the gang. To the rest of society, Bill is even more of an outcast, seemingly barely tolerated before joining the army, where he was further seen as incompetent before being forced into the life of an outlaw. So when Dutch came along into his life and offered him a lifeline in the form of a spot in his gang, Bill was relieved. For the first time in his life, he felt not just useful but wanted. It’s no surprise that is so unyieldingly loyal to Dutch through the entirety of the game. Whatever else, Dutch was the first to show him genuine compassion. (And perhaps that was intentional, perhaps Dutch saw Bill as a useful idiot he could make dependent on him given how everyone else treated him and he was far more cynical towards Bill than Bill ever realised but I digress.) To bring this back to the point, Bill has difficulty fitting in, proving himself and showing that he’s worthwhile to those around him. It’s hard for him to make true friends, let alone anything else. All he really knows how to be is a brute for Dutch’s operations, and everyone treats him accordingly, so how is he meant to form a deeper emotional attachment when no one sees him as worthy of one? That’s hard enough for platonic friendships but romance? It’s almost out of the question, especially when no one else around you is interested. Which then also explains why Bill has such a hard time expressing these feelings himself. He wants to fit in, he wants to be seen as valued and important, but when he constantly feels feelings and urges which he believes are unnatural and as much of detriment to him as botching the dynamite - which was probably Arthur’s fault but I digress - is it really surprising when he tries to suppress that side of him too? At his core, Bill wants to be respected for who he is but is conflicted because not only does his society not respect him but he barely respects himself either.
It is important to point out that, albeit he and John are wasted in these interactions, they do have a decent amount of time bonding during the camp parties
you are given to much credit to bill, he is just a hot head and a idiot , a idiot that don't wanna admit his mistakes and project that in others (when he is criying about whit arthur of the "one of them things")
@@kaeg.7800depends on what country this commenter is from. Uncle mentions the Philippines when he’s reading the newspaper at Horseshoe Overlook, but I think Bill maybe mentions Cuba? Maybe not I honestly can’t remember.
@@pjkerrigan20 Neither of which was colonized by america lol. They were both colonized by various different countries through out time, some neighbors, some not neighbors. Worst examples to mention.
PAUSE okay I get that the hair pomade thing speaks more to Bill and his character situation, but uh... How did Arthur know enough about the secret uses of hair pomade to instantly get all clammy about it? Is Arthur suddenly a LOT cooler than we all thought?
@@pinkygunslingy It wouldn't surprise me if Arthur had encountered and befriended gay folk in the past. There's a whole story with Mr black and Mr white in the game where it implies they are lovers. Arthur is pretty progressive in a few ways
@@plexyglass429exactly, there’s a stranger mission in rhodes around chapter 3 or 4 where Arthur encounters a black man staying in rhodes who’s quite frightened of upsetting white folk in town after he gets his wagon stolen seemingly over nothing, even going as far as to apologise to Arthur upon initial contact thinking he’d be like the rest of rhodes, but Arthur keeps asking his meaning and how could he (the doctor? if i recall correctly) could have offended Arthur, real stand up dude for the time
its cool, it feels like everyone at the camp knows something we dont, its really good storytelling you can kinda reconsider things each time you replay
your mic is definitely sideways. There is a side which captures clear audio and the other will make it sound muffled (or further away), so figure which one is which and speak into the correct side. But anyway very cool video and I hope you have a good day!
To me it sounds like it has more to do with the acoustics of the room. You're in what's known as a "wet" room. Or maybe "dry" room, don't remember. Some sound foam or even some blankets hung up around the walls would help the sound bounce around less. Another solution is cocooning yourself in a blanket so the sound stays trapped but that. cccould inhibit the facecam
@@Shagglerthejagglerthe fact he could be lying about something so small, and making such a big deal over it, would be really funny and in character for uncle
@@SadnessCentral but dude, lumbago literally is just basic, chronic back pain and for an old man who’s bar hopping and sleeping off the floor most nights during those days, a little lumbago is to be expected. No doubt he’s overplaying it in rdr1 but still very much real and possible for him to have and only be affected by here and there
For my reading of the games, Bill being gay adds another layer of tragedy for me, especially regarding Dutch. Discrimination and hate towards gay men and the persecution they faced factoring into Bill’s initial anger and violent tendencies reflecting his own conflict of his masculinity and self worth along with the struggles of being a sexual minority fits in with the MO of Dutch bringing in society’s outcasts. With Bill having found a man who welcomed him in and gave him a purpose and a place he could stay without much fear of being ostracized, it makes sense for him to be loyal to Dutch, much like how Javier was loyal to Dutch. Dutch may have had good intentions, but it does feel pretty predatory on his part to take advantage of these people who are oppressed and rejected to create loyal members to carry out his bidding and follow him without question. We see him do this with the Wapiti tribe too, albeit in a far more overt and manipulative way. Its part of why I loved RDR2 so much, analyzing how the faults in society in persecuting and discriminating against minorities and these groups not having much if any opportunity to succeed in life would lead them to crime and falling victim to a charismatic and predatory figure who positions themselves as their leader or savior, much like cult leaders. Bill is a terrible person and becomes even more of a monster at the end of the day, but I cant help but think how much he was a product of society in its homophobia and the patriarchal values it instills in men that helped shape him into the person he would become
no such thing as a 'monster' that's a contrived, allegorical & paradoxical means to further generalise & differentiate based on a indoctrinated Social Contagion of setting a higher perceived standards standards, that gets determined in its absolute form of truth to what it should & shouldn't be as... that can be pinpointed against the construct of a Human beings 's__uality' with further allegorical means of the Human Generalisation within the polarization of those who are subjected to a certain standard & those who aren't fit into that set of standards standards.
I only glanced at the thumbnail and really thought this was Bill from The Last Of Us and was like "...yeah? they pretty solidly confirmed it in the show??"
I’ve watched this twice now (i have an obsession with dissecting lore). Another interaction that’s had is in the mission ‘Americans at Rest’ where you (Arthur) beat up Tommy, before the fight breaks out you can hear Arthur ask ‘is he about to kiss that guy or punch him?’ referring to Bill getting rowdy with an NPC. Javier then says ‘I think we have our answer!’ which then makes the entire bar break out in a fight. I feel like the gang had a speculation over Bill being attracted to men, you can also find more dialogue between Tilly and Bill on a stagecoach robbery. Tilly calls Bill a ‘half-man’ which COULD insinuate that him being attracted to men makes him ‘lesser than’. Anyways, that’s all from me ✌️ (I will do the same on here as I do tiktok and happily debate in the replies to my comments purely to bring attention to this video in hopes people watch to the end and donate when they can! from the river to the sea 🍉)
What really surprised me was the stranger mission “He’s British, of Course,” in which Arthur encounters a British AMAB person of Indian descent who identifies as a woman. And I love how Arthur just accepted it because he’s seen way crazier things Edit: I didn’t completely watch the video and Margaret was actually mentioned in the video so this comment was kinda redundant but still I like how a AAA studio made such characters in a way that felt natural
I mean Jimmy Hopkins from Bully is bi, though it doesn’t play that big of a part in the story but it’s still kinda cool for a protagonist from a 2006 game.
my feelings exactly. like it's nice they're there and i suppose terrible queer ppl deserve representation too, but it'd definitely be nice to see a gay person i can support lol
Might have more to do with 99% of R* characters being terrible ppl than anything they're saying abt the gay community, especially in GTAV's case. RDR2 was a bit more grey, but you still can't make much a case of anyone in Da Gang being much more than some seriously bad people
@@pinkygunslingy that's a very superficial way of using cognition through a character in fiction to abide by through understanding etc. its a bit like labelling someone as a 'thing' that's constructed through superficial means of indoctrination based on a higher set of perceived standards, that gets determined in its absolute form of truth to what it should & shouldn't be as; which further exemplifies the allegorical & paradoxical means of labelling & cognitive beliefs via Polarization & Social Contagion (on both ends), to which it forwards more & more generalising and differentiation.
<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="1353">22:33</a> “please don’t accuse me of making Red Dead gay” lol Red Dead 2 is honestly pretty gay. I find it baffling that someone can play thru the whole game and not see how gay the world is. Of course I project some of that onto the game myself, but there’s a lot of heavily implied gayness all across it.
lol it's definitely a tiktok thing i find where you can point at the most obviously queer characters and ppl will throw a fit and accuse you of "making red dead gay" like you aren't just seeing what's in front of you lol
genuinely curious, what are some examples of this, other than De Santa (and maybe Chatenay)? i never noticed anything in my first playthroughs of both games (even De Santa somehow. not sure how i missed that, it's explicitly stated in nearly every mission with him lol), and not for a lack of trying, so i'm curious about any other potential lgbt characters
@@Sqk.I could be wrong but I think it’s mainly people getting upset at headcanons/shipping? Like ppl pairing Charles and Arthur or Dutch and Hosea which leads to dudebros being like 🤬🤬🤬🤬don’t make my game woke!!
The way I clapped my hands together like a little seal when I saw that you posted; also of course we’d be interested in a Pinkerton video omg!! (RIP Bill Williamson you would have loved ghosting people on Grindr
i mean it makes sense why arthur would be so nonchalant about strange people. he was an outcast himself, so tried to treat everyone who wasnt rich the same
Ayyyyyyye we back outchea for pride month❤, I wouldn't have really figured it at all through the interactions in RDR1 but 2 is an entirely different story in that regard when it comes to Bill..it's always a pleasure to see yours and other creator's takes on the characters in this story in general. Yours in particular hits on a different level imo, keep doing you
There's a short dialogue that almost no one hears in the game... it's one of my favorites and it's between Bill and Micah. I'm not sure but I think it's a mission in Rhodes and Bill and Micah are waiting for you to show up. If you don't run straight into the mission area and trigger the cut scene you can eavesdrop on them, and Micah says something like "You look real nice today Bill" and Bill goes "Shut up", Micah answers "No, real good. Like better than usual" and he kinda sounds sincere. Bill mutters sarcastically "Well, I bathed just for you." And Micah goes "I'm being genuine, Bill." And for once he actually does sound like he's being genuine. It's very short, but it's a candid moment between them and I find it really cute teeehee
I love this game so much, it keeps on giving like 5 years later! Never stop making these videos pinky! (And happy pride month gay cowboys,cowgirls,cowfolk!)
I'm sorry pinky. You didn't have to make a 26 min long video on something so obvious. You have fallen off smh. No but seriously, It's good to see you posting again.
I feel like one of the most tragic aspects of Bill Williamson is that he absolutely would have been on John and Arthur’s side if they had treated him with any kind of respect. Hell, even just apologizing for calling him dumb all the time would have gone a long way. He isn’t especially loyal to Dutch, Dutch is horrible to him.
these videos are so fascinating. never thought about this but WOOAH it’s basically irrefutable. thank you for constantly opening a new discussion when i thought i understood the game completely years ago. you’re also very thorough, entertaining and touch on so many unique points. i really enjoy your content and hope u keep it up!! thanks for your hard work yet again :-)
That Pinkerton video sounds awesome, I would love to see it. Thank you for making such interesting content about this game that often has such black white discussion
Yes, we are very interested! Sorry you had that experience though, that had to be awful. Really happy to see you back! Please do the Pinkerton one if you want to... or if it's just too triggering or whatever, we eagerly await the next topic.
I think a lot of people overlook how progressive Arthur really is, the way he sort of uncomfortably acknowledges how bad it is for Tilly be in Scarlet Meadows when she brings it up to him while vowing to keep her safe, when you meet the traveling doctor and he is hyper paranoid of Arthur’s intentions and offering to move and Arthur is genuinely confused about the man’s standoffishness saying “how could you possibly have offended me?” Race and discrimination genuinely doesn’t come across his mind unless someone blatantly brings it up to him.
I would love a video on Pinkerton! I think there's a lot of interesting things to say about their current contributions to the war economony, their historic oppression of labor movements, and how that all ties into the game's themes of land rights and Dutch's dreams being rooted in colonialism!!
Something id like to bring up is Seth from rdr 1 has an interesting relationship with Bill Williamson's gang , Seth said he knew Bill and that they " knew him for doing things that others wouldn't"
Scares me how I’ve had this thought about Bill for the longest time and never thought to talk about it cause it was such an outlandish theory at the time of its release. Refreshing to see people finally talking about Bill. Love the video!
I really liked your video. But I come from a media production background and i really think you should back up maybe a foot or two. That would help with the popping on the mic, as well as the fading when you turn your head, and maybe benefit the framing. Great writing, great video I can't wait to see where this channel goes next
Truly the algorithm has blessed me this day with some bespoke queer nonsense. 🙏 I mean that in the best possible way. Your channel is good. Instant sub.
No mention of the conversation between Micah and Bill prior to A Short Walk in a Pretty Town about why Bill bathed before the meeting? Was Micah an ally?!?
I love how RU-vid waits until AFTER Pride to actually show me more queer content than the channels I already watch. Very good of them to reduce algorithmic reach for us in our month of awareness.
audio advice: volt 176 audio interface, rode podmic, random ass mic arm doesn't matter what, and a pop filter would help i love all of these videos and this should help alleviate any audio issues you have for less than 400 dollars
Hello, I love your content! I work as an audio engineer and I think your videos would really benefit if you purchase a pop filter for your microphone. It would stop the audio from peaking when you make a p sound and vastly improve the audio quality. Also getting some carpeting for your recording room, if you don’t have any, would go a long way. Keep up the good work, love your content!
As a man who does wear hair pomade, it is as a whole less greasy (especially my preferred brand because I wear a hat), but there are still brands that resemble the 19th century stuff for the people that want it. It gives the hair a very glossy look.
