Is Melee a Good Game? 

😂😂🤣

It be like that sometimes

Sheridan Comnene I hate melee because it’s like Fox hits you with nair at like 13% and then you are in a death combo

Sheridan Comnene also the fact that the movement is unbelievably stupid, you’re limited in your vertical and horizontal movement, you fall like a rock and going off stage more than an inch your dead. Every thing is too fast and it’s more muscle memory than strategy. In Ultimate you have time to think about your actions

Sheridan Comnene the game is so broken and unbalanced, half the characters are never played. People only like it because of nostalgia

I had a cousin just like this. He had like 700 hours on killing floor and gave it a 6/10 in his review on the steam store lol.

that's about what I say of Team Fortress 2 at 6300 hours.

me with terraria

Isn't that what it means to enjoy something while understanding it's flaws? Nothing is perfect and I don't think I've ever played a game that i could without a doubt say was a masterpiece, even if I happen to sink a lot of time into it.

Would you rather them have 5 hours logged on the game and say it’s an ok game?

this so much like whyyyyy

i hated this as a kid and i still hate it today

I remember thinking it made sense when I first noticed that as a kid. I was like "C-stick for Camera. Yeah."

Its been 20 years since I've played melee. I forgot about that. And now that you've reminded me of it, I'm worse off for it. Thank you.

I hate that. It makes Home Run Contest literal hell on earth.

yeah I never actually played but there should be an option to cut it of

@@noir269 20xx or Uncle Punch Training Mode are mods that allow you to use c stick in single player

​@@vDeadboltnot the point

@@user-lv8lt8gu4g my guy, I'm offering a solution to the problem lmfao.

If you played around that time, dual stick wasn't the norm. It's hard to explain, but you wouldn't immediately go for the second stick to do anything. A lot of us came from a single stick N64 controller

Who came up with that name lol

@@JoeMama-nl5yk asum himself

Ikr

Heh! You’re joking right? you’re joking right? *oh god you’re not joking* Jk I know what that is. A wavedash with frame perfect inputs so that your traction value is replaced with your walk speed during it.

@@IStoleUrBaguette yeah

The nerve on this bastard!

lol one of my favorite smash content uploader reacting to another fav of mine

I wish he would try to do something different, whatever he is passionate about, I think talking about video-games can be really restrictive.

I came in thinking ok I'll watch like 10 mins...then 37 mins flew by

hello fellow plussy

Yeah, it's that way.

@SharinganSakura It’s technically 20%, as Sonic's pure stages are only one fifth of the entire game, and I have grown tired of the alternate gameplay types as the years go by. Despite that, it's still a fun game and I really appreciate the amount of content Sonic Team filled in to make it worth the full price at the time. It certainly beats making a game really annoyingly difficult to the point it takes forever.

@@ultrairrelevantnobody1862 10/32 of the game's levels are Sonic's and they're at least twice as long as the other characters' so it's more like 50% sonic by play time at least

@Brandofreak Yes, but only 7 out of the 10 stages focus purely on Sonic's mechanics when going from start to finish (3 other levels tend to include gameplay gimmicks to extend their length and add some spectacle). Plus, it's not just six playable characters. There's snow/sandboarding, on rails air shooting, twinkle circuit racing, pinball, and virtual pet simulation. The amount of different gameplay types that build up and take up so much of the length compared to Sonic's length is insane.

@SharinganSakura Idk if I'm missing something but I've never heard of somebody getting Sonic Adventure just to play Sonic's story and stop playing.

Nah, you only need one video each for 64, Brawl, and 4: 64: play Melee unless you're a Kirby main Brawl: play Ultimate unless you're a Meta Knight main 4: play Ultimate unless you're a Bayonetta main

@@SongbirdOfficial Okay I don't care about the other two, BUT BOI, YOU BETTER NOT BE DISSING BRAWL THE *BEST* GAME IN THE SERIES Put up your dukes, we're having it out.

@@Lechgang saying a game is the best in it's series is entirely subjective & false unless its qualities far surpass it's opponents. brawl isn't the "best game in the series" if you're playing competitively (tripping, slow speed, meta knight as a whole, etc.) while ultimate and melee excel in the competitive scene- the former being a game that appeals to both casual players and competitive players. people who watch videos like these are probably competitive players, so your opinion would be seen as wrong in the eyes of many other people. gotta admit subspace was fire tho tl;dr - your opinion is pretty eh

@@trystansimmonsayala9584 You just basically said my opinion was false and I gotta say dude, I can't agree. You've got some audacity to say this by the way, I'm not usually one to be offended, but I just REALLY hate your response. I said brawl is best, so what? You said it wasn't? Don't act like your opinion holds more ground. I like Ultimate too, but I personally think Brawl is heavily underrated and melee is overhyped. Melee's core battle mechanics are because of errors and glitches in the games code. Technically speaking it's absurd to say that Melee is better because it's a buggy glitchy mess. Sure, brawl is slow, but Melee's jankiness makes it a technical inferior game. Sure you could mention competitive, but the competitive nature of a game is secondary to the casual parts, and Brawl is easily the best casual game of the bunch, maybe Ultimate rivals it, but Subspace Emissary puts so much of Ultimate to shame IMO. You basically tried to be nice in saying I was wrong and that other games were better, and I'm sorry but I ain't taking that.

​i never said your opinion was wrong in any way. i dont think my opinion holds more ground, i just think that brawl isn't the best game competitively. that was the original statement of my comment as a man in a documentary once said, "brawl excelled as a casual game, but it suffered competitively." this is because of the updated mechanics/speed and the fact that one character alone dominated the competitive scene i don't see why you think subspace puts most of ultimate to shame just because it's a far more rememberable and fun singleplayer mode. sure, it outshines wol effortlessly, but i think that's one of the only things brawl does better than ultimate. melee's pretty wack and stupid but it did better *competitively*, with the most history behind it and a reputation as the most competitive game in the series sorry if it seemed like i was attempting to prove your opinion wrong, i just wanted to point out that brawl isn't the best game in a competitive sense

Pat, from Super Best Friends Play and Pat Stares At, threw out an incredible rant about this particular incident back in the day, on the old podcast, basically saying that this is why the FGC doesn’t take the Melee community as seriously as they want to be taken.

@@BareBandSubscription Nah, the FGC doesn't take smash seriously because it's actually fun. Smash has no problems appealing to a casual audience, and that's basically the defining feature of the fighting game genre at this point.

@@AllUpOns No, they don’t take Melee seriously because the Melee community is historically ridiculous, and because the metagame is so dubious. It’s basically a party-fighter that got bullshitted into a deep fighting game, utilizing what are essentially just exploits, and the tech is so precise and specific for performing such basic actions that the game overlaps more with the speed running community than with the actual FGC. Trust me, there are plenty of reasons Melee gets such a mixed reception in that community, and they’re mostly legitimate. Ultimate has actually received more legitimacy from the FGC at large because, unlike Melee, it was actually designed with the conceit of being a proper competitive fighting game in mind, even if only mildly so, and because the Ultimate crowd doesn’t have it’s head three feet up it’s ass.

@@AllUpOns what about tekken

@@BareBandSubscription idk Id rather have a meta thats somewhat of an enigma than a paper cut super simple game that is Ultimate. Its not trying to bullshit its way to being a deep competitive game when it by complete freak accident has all the pieces in place. Ultimate despite being made with that intent fails in so many aspects to be a proper competitive game, its not surprising most players have been burned out or not enjoying the game as much as lately although that could be wifi talking but people were pretty negative at the end of 2019. Doesnt help some FGC folk have tried it and never really stuck with it, game somehow manages to be more of a mess in its meta while trying to oversimplify the smash formula which only leaves both sides of players frustrated. And thats just the mechanics, it also manages to take control away from the player and feel stiff in platform movement and something as simple as dashing wont even let you reverse aerial rush something youd be able to do in the last 2 games, its sad that Smash 64 feels a lot more responsive for being a near 25 year old game (not that Id call it better than Ultimate). Even newer fighting games that have come out recently dont leave me feeling this hopeless cause theres still some aspects to enjoy about them even if theyre not as hard or complex as the old fighting games that made a name for themselves. The only part I agree with is that the community does feel more in line with speedrunning than fighters cause most fighters dont feel as demanding and have as much crazy tricks to pull of as Melee which is more free form, its a weird game thats managed to attract people as insane as me to give it shot in spite of its hurdles. Another thing that dissapoints me so much is I wish there was more crossplay into other fighters from Melee players, something only Leffen has tried to do.

I feel like it's the fan base that made the game what it is today. In a way, they help develop the game.

It's true

​@@Benjawin6671 No

It's true. The theme fucking sucks

i mean the version he played was not the one with the extremely loud instrumentation, the song isn't very good without that.

How would one exploit the algorithm? Curious 🤔

@Rensi It's not that easy to become a late-night talk show host man.

thanks for letting me know, didnt even realize it till I read your comment

Holy shit. I didn't even notice.

23 minutes in and then I saw how long it is

who?

@@Adam-jo3tr that wise man that said it

@@Adam-jo3tr C9 Mango at Nintendo SSB Ultimate reveal show.

@@Adam-jo3tr Mang0

Sick

Very informed and balanced outlook, Tomoko.

I really enjoy both, having 700 hours in ult and probably more in melee since picking it up in march 2020, and just sometimes wish for ultimate to have a little bit more similarities to melee. Better wavelanding (not wavedashing), so you can do grab techchases, waveland off platform, shield dropping, reducing the buffer a little, etc. i play both a lot, though ultimate more at school for like 30 min every 2 days with friends cause online players play like they have no father figures.

I would love ultimate, for example, if it had similar movement options to melee (I mean it already HAS wavedashing, it's just fucking useless in ultimate), had the platform options you mentioned, AND had the option to remove the buffer system entirely (as well as reducing input lag plz). That buffer system, despite being a standard in modern games, has a tendency to make something come out I didn't intend to come out because of how large it is (I believe in ultimate it's a 9 frame buffer, which is huge for a fighting game), and is the primary reason I don't even touch the game to this day. ah and maybe less end lag on moves in general for everyone, no l-cancel needed, just make everyone faster to compensate for the horrifically low hitstun.

@@RPGgrenade the amount of un-intended dashes i made in Ultimate would let you to believe the game is still in beta, how can a game be so close to perfection and at the same time so far away from it?

My main issue with Ultimate is just the way neutral plays and the slower speed. I'm mostly a P+ player rather than a Melee guy, and seeing as my main is infinitely Ganondorf everything after Melee excluding P+/PM throws him to the trash bit.

Yeah the game was amazing at release as a completely noob casual. There's a reason it was the best selling gamecube game. I find it weird comparing all the games with current day's perspective instead of around time they were released.

@@YangiTheCat because the question eventually becomes “why would you still play this now?” as a game ages. Melee was great for its time, but competitive scene notwithstanding, it has aged, and the other Smash games have improved on it substantially in elements like character roster, single player modes (Brawl especially), soundtrack (definitely at least in sheer amount of songs available), casual control, and graphically.

MockRock is pretty good

My cousin has 2,000 hours on fornite and he only decent

Just play melee

Rud 100% agree

@@kutchop8613 2000 are not that much

I hope so that would be so cool

@@TylerCloke Did you see Armada reaction of M2K video of top 10 Melee player of all time ,when HuGs come first and Armada insult him with the n-word

leffen gonna watch the first 30 seconds then dislike and click off

I would love to hear what they have to say, especially zero

30:55 "Hungrybox, who plays Jiggly Puff, a character with a losing matchup to F--" *Armada pauses the video for 5 minutes to talk about how broken Puff is*

That’s beautiful mang

Yeah. It IS incredibly impressive what was accomplished in such a short window. The crunch faced by the end must've been unbearable for most. Unfortunately, the insane tenacity and work ethic of the developers can only compensate so much when your game rushed by TWO YEARS. That's why the game has some jank.

I laughed out loud when he said that

Pretty sure that was the joke...

I honestly don’t think melee would be what it is and where it is today if the developers had more time. Most of the bugs would have been patched so we wouldn’t have such insane moves like foxes shine.

@@ballba11ball what bugs?

Sounds cool, but I hope the devs don't stop updating the mod to make their own heavily flawed game or anything though

Waiting for a woooosh comment

I hope they add Roy and Mewtwo to Brawl.

Yeah and it'd be really cool if they made everyone equally good in brawl

@@cassidy8307 Wait what? Making their own game?

I think this is the most accurate take I've seen yet.

this is a perfect explanation

Is melee accidentally perfect? **YES**

@@queuedjar4578 x30

this is the best way to summarize Melee

Basically made the comment I was going to make. I agree that a subjective favorite isn't the same thing as an objective review!

Exactly what i was thinking.

I kind of agree, but I'm tempted to say that if the aspect that makes a game your favorite doesn't really belong to the game proper, then it's not the game that you're enjoying, it's almost an entirely different, derivative product. I'm not sure if this is a good comparison (need more time to think about it tbh) but saying "I love competitive Melee, therefore Melee is my favorite game" is, to me, a little bit like saying "I love Red Letter Media's Plinkett Reviews, therefore the Phantom Menace is my favorite movie." The competitive aspect of Melee is like paratext, instead of text. Suppose I only enjoy playing zombie mode in Black Ops, but it's literally my favorite thing to do in the world. Would that make Black Ops my favorite game? I'd definitely say no. Anyway, sorry if I'm coming across as pretentious philosophy 101 dude, that's not my goal and I don't know anything about philosophy. I just think it's a really fascinating discussion.

@@mantistoboggan537 Except it does belong in the game. Smash has always been a multiplayer centric game. The entire experience revolves around the mechanics of the game to the point where the singleplayer modes are just battles in a different context. While yes, the singleplayer is underwhelming, it's never the focus of the games. Multiplayer will always be more important than singleplayer and that goes for most fighting games. While you could argue that competitive Smash isn't intended, I'd argue that it is. Smash has always been a very versatile game. You have complete control over what items show up, their frequency, and the stages. If Smash was intended to play one way then would this level of control be given to the player to fine tune the experience? There are several games that can be enjoyed in several ways. Take Pokemon for example. Some people shiny hunt, some people play competitive, some people enjoy the singleplayer, some people try to catch every Pokemon and some people enjoy doing challenge runs like Nuzlockes. People who enjoy the singleplayer but don't enjoy completing the Pokedex, are missing some of the experience. People who don't play competitive are also missing a huge part of the experience, or maybe some people like competitive but despise completing the story. Does enjoying only one of these aspects mean that people can't say a game in the franchise is their favorite? That's absurd, you can enjoy a game for whatever reason and I think Smash is the same way.

I'd argue that Melee shouldn't be in his list because not only does he need another person to play with (in the same room) to make it fun, it has to be another person who's put in hundreds of hours practicing.

I agree

@@AverageHandle_ thank you JoJo Mama

Yassssss

truee

Yeah, saying a game is my favorite even though I only enjoy 1 small part of it doesn’t seem weird to me.

oh yeah, neutral is incredibly mind-game heavy, and it is fun. however, punish heavy gameplay is fun and respectable too. we need another mess and incredibly fast game other than melee

@@tafu4049real. ultimate is super fun, but frankly, if someone as good at me can do as good as i do in ultimate, its not punish heavy enough.

This is true. If the question is whether or not you like a game and can put it in your favorites list is entirely dependent on you enjoying playing that game and spending time on it. How you play it or the options you choose to customize your gameplay are irrelevant. But if the question is about whether it's a good or balanced game, you are lying to yourself if you ignore aspects of the game that you choose to ignore while playing. The whole game going by it's proper title is not "good" if you only play part of it.

Correction for Smash 4, just Smash Run. For me, there is no other reason to play Smash 4, and Smash Run isn't even that fun for me in the first place.

Like the souls games Too each one has their own strengths and weaknesses and exploits.

i like brawl because of its raw gameplay :)

I do love brawl for the gameplay. It's far better than melee

Well it also works the other way around, Gothic, an RPG game would absolutely my favorite game ever if not the middle-early segment of the game, it's a moment where everything is too tanky, hit's too hard and the game basically makes you master the fighting system and after that the difficulty just takes a nosedive down until the end of the game. At the beggining the game's cruel, in the early-mid game it becomes literal hell, late-mid it is back to just cruel, late game is extremely easy compared to what the difficulty was before and the game becomes cruel again, just a difficulty wide ride, not speaking about the middle segment taking far too much time to complete. I both love and hate this game to be honest

You can call anything your favorite game and don't really have to defend it, but the video is about whether it's good as a whole. "I enjoy this, but would I actually recommend this to the average person?"

i feel like this, Ult its my favorite game of all time, and in my opinion its a bit mediocre

imo, there's a difference between my favorite games, and the games I consider to be the best games.

If Dark Souls II Pvp actually was as good as fucking Melee then yeah it would definitely be considered one of my favorite games despite not really loving the rest of the game

Heh same, when I first tried ranked battle in splatoon 1 I never went outside of it to the point turf war feels awkward to me wheb online friends i play with drag me into it. (Hydra splatling user)

i love all the singleplayer stuff in melee except event matches. i get them out of they way asap to get FD and never touch them again lol

Personally, I think he framed his question and analysis wrongly in the video, and the correct question is in the title. This is talking of the objective components that make a game good, and that does mean its universal aspects. I felt the same way when he spoke of "favorites," considering some of my favorite games of all time include the clearly flawed Kirby and the Amazing Mirror and Sonic Adventure 2. This is probably a miscommunication. Is Melee a special game? Obviously. Nearly 20 years later it still has a dedicated community in the competitive field and still finds new players dripping into the scene. But being a landmark game and being good on all fronts are two very different things, and I think that especially in the first part of the video, he did a fair job explaining why the game might seem so archaic to the greater public, those who aren't interested in practicing for so long just to feel like they're in control of the game they're playing. Edit: I'm clarifying real quick that I do agree, this shouldn't keep him from saying it's one of his favorites, or any flaw within the game, for that matter. It being its own, special, intricate game is its own reason to be a favorite to many.

thank you for saying this

Competitive melee is one of his all-time favorites, but it's wrong to say Melee period is one of his favorites because he only enjoys such a small part of it.

@@starwarriorterra8373 I'd say if nothing else this video proves there is no such thing as an objective good game. What traits make a game "good?" How are the traits you consider important not subjectively chosen? You end up having to make distinctions like "my favorite game that I've played for 2 bazillion hours is technically not good" and that's just a bit silly now innit? Sure, you could say Street Fighter 2 is a "good" game because it's core versus gameplay has enough depth to hold up for all these years, and you could say it's a "bad" game because it has stiff animations and a non-existant story mode. Neither answer is "objectively" correct, the things people consider important vary.

Too Few Secrets but they are the same game none the less. Even if it’s an exclusive part. I guess the best comparison would be minecraft. With how much you can do in that game, you probably are only doing a small part of it. Even if you just only enjoy one or two mods of the game, you would still say you love minecraft, because it is the platform allows you to do it.

@June it is for me tbf

And then there’s Yoshi’s frowning in the distance

|[

I prefer ____

Frisk

I can see this but I only think that you say that is maybe because us plebs can't be as good as the top players which are more sick and are really good and have entertaining gameplay.

I can totally agree. I've been watching melee since 2017 and ultimate since it's release and I would emulate it, but I don't have the money to buy a good computer to play, but I'm still happy watching these amazing videos. Someday I'll play for sure, but for now I'm gonna stick to RU-vid and twitch.

Melee is one of the most nostalgic games out there. I sunk SO MANY HOURS, DAYS, WEEKS, MONTHS, & to a lesser extent YEARS as a kid. Even now, I still adore the sound design and how expressive the violent nature of it is. I will admit though that having recently replayed it again for what felt like a long time, the control is very precise to a finicky degree. I also practiced wavedashing for a bit and found it too difficult to pull off consistently. It really is an acquired taste today. I still look back on those memories extremely fondly, but I do prefer Brawl and Ultimate if I want to get my Smash fix.

Its like anything else in life. If you're willing to put the time in it's going to be a struggle, but the rewards are great. Been playing for a while and every time I reach a new plateau the game becomes even more fun. But I feel you, StarCraft is way too much stress for me I get it but just cant

of course, cause it's a haaaaaard game

I hate to get political, but i guess that it sorta is because it's like comparing apples to apple gummies or hard candy that's apple flavoured. There's very little apple in apple candy, but it has a much sweeter and arguably better flavour than regular apples. See what I'm saying? You can't really call apples your favorite food just because you love apple candy so much. Smash at it's core is like fruits, while smash at competitive is like candy.

@@hugglesnuggybear5822 i think it's more like a sport, you can like playing soccer casually with friends or competitively at high levels, either way you enjoy soccer.

@@hugglesnuggybear5822 It's all subjective. I can say I personally value apple candy over any other food i eat. That doesn't mean I can't say I don't like apples still. Everything has it's own independent level of appreciation per person.

I think that its disingenuous to claim, for instance, Call of Duty is your favorite game if you only play Zombies mode for instance. No one would argue you are wrong to say it, since favorites are entirely subjective, but its like claiming to like cake when in reality you only like fondant. If you could find fondant without cake, youd never eat cake again. Do you really like cake? Its arguable.

What is wrong with that? Zombies mode is still part of the game. A big BIG part of why people like the competitive aspect of Melee is because of the movement and mechanics alone (which are the most fundamental part of the game). I don't think it's disingenous at all, since the judgment on wether you like a game or not comes after the fact of experiencing said game. I personally like to boot up my Wii and just go into training mode to practice techskill, of course I still played adventure mode, classic, unlocked every character, all of the events, but I don't enjoy them as much as simply going into practice mode. What I'm saying is that it's unlikely that someone that participates in competitive Melee has only and exclusively experienced the competitive aspect of it. Also, having a favorite anything is an inherently subjective and personal decision. If someone enjoys just staring at menus and listening to the music, it still part of the game, and nobody can change that.

It’s just something you enjoy, not a mechanic that should define the game. I can agree the game would feel really fun with that mechanic, but most games like Melee aren’t surrounded by 1 part of the game.

100% correct. The premise of the entire video is idiotic.

Thank you for the explanation; this helps

@bathestyles ofc! For others who need further explanation, in ultimate you'll see a player like Light spam bair at ledge. This isn't mashing. It's quite literally optimal. Due to low landing lag and its safe but strong nature, Fox bair alone puts a lot of pressure on ledge. This is more of a trapping mechanic to keep the opponent on ledge and force them to create a punishable option. This is in contrast to Melee, where players opt to sit on ledge (to ledge hog ik different games hard to compare), or will jump up in prediction to an attempt to land on stage. In laymans terms, in Ultimate, you cover as create pressure, while in Melee, you play mind games. Both good games. Have fun!

That is what i was thinking

Bowser can't in Race to the finish

It gets even better when you get the Debug Menu and change their sizes to see how small you can beat the game as

it can get a bit samey

that's a very interesting point about kill moves.

Very true. This became a real issue with Smash 4 which also heavily nerfed the impact of DI overall from Melee & Brawl.

Ultimate's knockback momentum was incredible weird to me when i first saw it and honestly it's too forgiving, I can hit Marth's foward smash at 148% and instead of flying natrually into the blastzone they will stop abruptly right before it

I actually prefer Ultimate's more triangular trajectory because of the distinction of what will and won't kill

It isn't just the knockback here. Something he glosses over is the reduction of DI as a whole-- there is a LOT of DI followups/mixups in Melee, along with the importance of SDI. Those have all been severely reduced in Smash 4/Ultimate to the point where it is one of the reasons that Bayo was such a terror. The freedoms which are afforded to the player in Melee help them have counterplay to what would otherwise be stupidly strong options. Even chaingrabbing in Melee takes practice (for the most part, anyways, Sheik is a pretty good exception) due to this. It might look easy to uthrow chaingrab a Fox as Doc until you try it.

My thoughts exactly. Its like saying brawl has the most characters because of project m. Ultimate has the best built in online (which isn't saying much) but melee has none so they're not comparable in that sense.

@@willywakka7830 I don't really think that's a fair comparison because online Smash didn't exist at all when Melee released. It's not the same as poor design of a feature that's considered standard.

I don’t think online was on the top of people’s minds in 2001

Yeah, talking about online in this video at all was a bit weird because I bet fans would make something a lot better than official nintendo online if they were forced to. Melee didn't ship with online play because that wasn't really plausible on the gamecube and that feels fine to me

@@willywakka7830 can’t even say that because Smash 4 legit had a better online experience than ultimate

Exactly if this were Melee players like you would have left early making the game community smaller, while games like Ultimate strike a balance letting you enjoy the game casually while also being competitive friendly.

I was briefly part of the competitive scene for Melee (locals mostly but I went to one single regional) and you're exactly right. I couldn't, and still can't, do a single advanced tech and so I lost nearly 100% of the games I played. It fucking sucked lmao, literally the only reason I was there was for my partner at the time. Could I have gotten better with months of sustained practice and failure? Sure, but that's just not fun for me. I don't enjoy doing the same thing day in day out with zero reward. Ultimate is more fun (FOR ME) for the simple reason that I can play against people who are better than me without getting instantly destroyed. It feels like I actually learn something from losing instead of playing Melee where I just feel like "welp I literally had zero ability to change that outcome".

Okay online Samus.

June is now known as AsumSaus month actually

Simp

@@giantclaw138 who?

happy world milk day

Rumple Foreskin le MORK

Yeah. Such a weird metric in this video. I never play parts of a game I don't enjoy, why would I?

​@@MrCocktaiIUnfortunately in Melee you have to do all the shitty single player modes, events, and target practice to unlock the characters the fastest and it's the only way to get 3 of the tournament stages. Sucks having to go through all the horseshit just to get the memory setup for competitive play.

Look at single player as a way to train and hone your skills against others, that's what I do and for a bonus I like to collect all 290 trophies which are rough to attain at times

this the one

It's kind of strange but I feel like the graphics aged better than brawl's

I personally also like the classic Mario character designs and good ol' fat Pikachu.

Even Yoshi?

The N64 era of Nintendo characters is definitely something special

@@LalitoTV Yeah I think an exception is Yoshi abd Bowser

I was thinking "...yes, they did!!"

We are old 😮

Smash 3DS had a good classic mode and possibly the best singleplayer experience in the entire franchise in the form of Smash Run.

Gosh darn the final boss was so epic. Having it get crazy with the higher difficulties made it so much fun to attempt 8+ difficulty runs.

Smash 3DS had one of my favorite modes: Smash Run

@@krubbington Hell yeah, they need to bring Smash Run to Ultimate >:D

@@krubbington smash run was so much better than smash tour it's almost criminal lol

That is the best description I've ever heard

You missed the oportunity to say "prrrrrrr"

"A spire of flames, if you will." You could even call it an undying light.

@@benhuang2773 Us fans of Lifelight are here where we stand, hand clenched in hand, everyone caught in the struggle

@@JHamron I believe that he has the right to his opinion. After all, every soul contains a whisper of light, growing louder as it calls to unite

J Hamron Lifelight's melody is--and i say this with Brawl being my first Smash game--the best theme in the series. it feels so pervasive and transcendant. it's gotten stuck in my head infinitely more times than Brawl's ever has. and Brawl's theme is great! that's how good Lifelight is to me. it *is* Smash now, or at least it's essence. that said, i'm kinda mixed on the actual lyrics haha. i think i enjoy them in a slightly ironic cheesy way, which still means i enjoy them!

@@RacingSnails64 "Audi famam illius" was pretty cheesy too but it was Latin so it was a bit cooler.

Yeah pm was great, now project + is kinda popular but nintendo love stomping on community made stuff

I've only gotten to touch Project M a few times but it was damn near life-changing, even in all my time of Smashing. These days I'm lucky to get a round in where I can but I always savour the occasion😺

project plus/m is dope and is my fav

Project M Subspace Emissary was some of the most fun single player smash I've ever had. The speed of Melee's mechanics really make the already good boss fights just that much better.

If anyone seeing this has an instagram, go follow @ Project.m.stuff for great daily clips. While I agree Melee is the GOAT, PM/P+ truly challenges that title with, as Yellow Yoshi said, the best of both worlds. My favorite smash game/experience by far and still developing to this day. I really hope, if Ultimate is the last Smash game, Nintendo embraces P+ and actually supports them.

This video is literally the opposite of that.

Nelson Horsley That might just be one of the best analogies I’ve ever read. Wish I could hang it up on a wall

Imagine deciding to limit yourself by playing an old and nearly broken piano that can give good results only if you invest years into playing it (and even modify your entire hand), while not even knowing whether you were actually good enough to be a skilled pianist for those years, because you chose to play that piano instead of one that works well for everybody. I’m not saying I really feel this way, but I am saying analogies like this are pretty dumb.

@@Edgeperor no

I feel like this isn't a very good analogy. Playing an instrument is about stringing notes and chords together in a certain rhythm to play a song. Playing Melee is about string a set of movements together to perform complex combos and kill your opponent. That kind of skill should be difficult to master. However, the act of playing a note should be simple. Sure, playing certain impressive chords and tones might require more skill, but the basic parts should be easy to play. In the same way, you want to be able to do basic things like short-hopping or inputting smash attacks to be simple, which a buffer can help with in many cases. Now, I would say too much of a buffer can be suffocating and make skilled play clunky (Ultimate's buffer system is terrible), but having some leniency is not a bad thing. A game should not be hard to play, just hard to play to its fullest potential.

@@Edgeperor Dashback is broken, yes, but there are musical analogies to things not working perfectly. For example, sustaining a note is limited by having to switch your bow motion on a violin. the mechanical technical proficiency required to play fast melee characters takes practice before you can do anything, and it's fun to build up your skill. There are things like wavedashing, shield dropping, and ledgedashing that you have to keep up and can always improve at, like scales and arpeggios. I like ultimate, but it doesn't give this feeling. It's like playing guitar hero on easy instead of guitar. It's still a lot of fun, but the skill and enjoyment comes from the other parts of the game

Mods didnt fix Melee Online, Melee never had online, so the Mod actually added something that wasnt possible in 2001

@@Reshi9984 still falls in the category of "mods will add it" like the custom tracks for Mario kart Wii, DS and 7 online

Don't you think it's pretty hilarious that a few people in a basement made a better online experience than the billion dollar company Nintendo lmao

@@Jeff-uu9vo That has nothing to do with Melee as a game though

Actually a very fair point, why compare it to its least best version of online

kinda related but i know how to wavedash using tap jump

@@Reshi9984 Satan asked if you could teach him how to

@@Reshi9984 But you still can't wavedash without the L/R/Z buttons which Single Button mode disables

@@thrasher698 Which is why he said unrelated

Air Ride mode

_am I a joke to you?_

Screams in DOOM and Unreal Tournament

@@tcwentertainment screams in rocket jumping in tf2

Anime airdashers are seething

Osu! Would like you to rethink what you just claimed. All of you. Go look at a 7 or 8 star beatmap and WEEP over how fast it is. You NEED 120Hz monitor just to keep up. Fast? Melee looks slow compared to it.

Personally, when I play a game, I don't point at a flaw and say "did you see that rushed development cycle? I didn't like the way Mario jumped and then did his Crunch special." When I see flaws, I see the flaws. That aside, it's unfortunate that people who don't like Melee often have a hard time giving full credit to the players that are fans of the game, keeping it alive and transforming its flaws into a toolkit. That takes work and a different kind of appreciation.

Had to extend the length of the video somehow lol

It was a good video tho but I would of separated it into one short and one long video answering those two questions separately

GenialBunion You would of? I'm not sure someone who says "would of" should be making such specific comments about the work of...anyone.

Ya..this guy is full of shit. He has horrible opinions.

@@notsogreatsword1607 I like how you think a grammar error invalidates his sentence like it didn't make sense to you.

"downright oppressive character balance" This is an extremely egregious take coming from a SMASH 4 and ultimate player

@@rivahs Yes, I am aware Meta Knight and Bayonetta exist in their respective games. I never claimed those games were perfectly balanced. In fact, I no longer play either of them because Ultimate exists. But you look at an utterly nonfunctional character in Melee like Kirby or a downright unfinished one like Game and Watch (non-L-cancellable aerials because they're internally classed as specials, a shield that doesn't even cover him, like why) compared to high tiers and it evokes the same feeling of "how do these characters exist in the same game". Oh, and gotta love that competitive variety. Spacies, Puff, Marth, Spacies, Puff, Marth, oh shit watch out guys, Armada's breaking out the Peach! Are we lucky enough to see a Falcon? Melee is a solved game, unless someone pulls an Hbox and figures out how to make Pichu work, this is it. Not saying it'll never happen to Ultimate, lord knows it's happened in every game so far by fair or foul, but for now I'm enjoying continuing to be surprised at which characters show up in competetive and do pretty good. *Edit: I literally switched my brain into thinking you said Brawl and not Ultimate halfway through writing my comment because it made no sense, lmao. What, you gonna whine about wanting to ban Steve too? Got stomped by a Kazuya a little too hard? Get a grip.

@@ExaltedUriel you putting words in my mouth bro, ion even own fighter pass 2 lol I haven't played online since terry dropped so never fought the kazuyas and steves. On variety in characters, there is at a bare minimum 8 viable characters that all can be played with vastly more variety than any given ult character. Even in movement you can differentiate yourself which is non existent in ultimate. In melee, you are never limited by the game in terms of speed. Melee is always speeding up but we never hit the roof. In ult you're just fighting a clunkier game that fights you more than helps. That all comes from a player who started comp with smash 4 and ult when I was like 13 and even before playing melee I disliked how ult felt. Calling melee tech and mechanics jank because you barely play it is just disingenuous

@@rivahs So you're going to claim that Ultimate has "oppressive character balance" despite not being up to date, claim that it's "clunky and fights against you" (compared to fucking Melee, lmao), again, when you don't play it, and then have the gall to call ME disingenuous because I apparently haven't played enough Melee for you? Okay kid. Go back to getting ceiling glitched and Battlefield'ed.

@@ExaltedUriel it is objective fact though that melee has more responsive and less clunky feels than ultimate because of no buffer and weird input macros. I will admit commenting on the balance of ultimate was overstepping my knowledge, but thats not that relevant considering how close melee is in balance as well

Comment put a smile on my face

Same for me. Those kind of games are rare but when you find them there is nothing like it. Melee/P+, Rivals, Destiny 1 (sounds crazy but the movement was amazing), Overwatch on Tracer specifically. It feels like you can do almost anything you can imagine when given the most freedom to do so. My brother keeps insisting League of Legends is like this also but I'm nowhere near good enough to see that yet.

mirrors edge is a good one for that

@@Saskaruto16 Tf2 and counter strike pull this off well also.

Sonic Riders is pretty good for that. The game feels like it has endless depth. So sad we will probably never get a new game in the series. (Honestly, if you just slapped the Gravity Ring's turning into Riders 1, made a few new maps, and made it easier to nope out of Turbulence that would be the perfect racing game imo.)

I’m pretty sure that was with higher levels of lag, not the 12 frames mentioned on screen

@@Edgeperor nah offline ultimate still has more input lag than melee netplay with a good connection (to be fair part of the point is that melee netplay with a good connection has the same input lag as melee offline)

sahib763 He’s referring to the actual clip being played of the Snake player shielding while the 12 frame online input lag is being mentioned, and in the context of that clip that is definitely more than 12 frames lmfao. Probably some dude with a shitty connection on the other end. But yeah, melee netplay is actually ridiculously optimized. What a crazy community.

Shame I can't get into P+ because I literally don't know any local scene

@@lapplandkun9273 I feel that. Our scene was on life support for quite a while but it's finally starting to grow again. You never know, there might be more people in your area that like it than you think.

It's one of those "songs that shouldn't have lyrics"

instrumental version is fine but the lyrical version makes me want to cut off my ears

I didn't mind it at first but now I hate it

This is the first time I have ever seen someone not like Lifelight. I didn’t know people like that actually existed...

I'm not really a fan either

I had the most fun unlocking characters in melee out of any game I’ve ever played

Indeed. I like it way more than ultimates single player.

There are people who take target test just as seriously, if not more so, than competitive players do vs mode

Yeah cuz leaving my console on overnight for Mewtwo sounds like loads of fun

Mimiko Ishikawa it actually was. I didn’t have internet then and felt like I had outsmarted the game, I was quite proud of unlocking mewtwo

Really the main issue is the depth of punish game. If you know Luigi's 3 combos, you know Luigi's punish game. If you learn a peach combo in melee, you have learned specifically how to combo (character) on (stage) at (percent) with specific DI. This allows for a punish game that can be improved further by players who have been at the top for years while if you learn diddy's infinite, congratulations, you know what to do if you hit the setup.

@@sunday1294 Ultimate's depth of punish game isn't in the combos, it's in the ledge trapping, which takes a ton of practice and character knowledge to get good at, and is more freeform with a ton of mindgames.

@@auroraourania7161 id say ultimate edge guarding is alot more free form because of how much more lenient recovery is. Ledge trapping however doesnt really seem that much different, besides the fact that in melee you have to react to ledge dash as another ledge option

1. Melee theme (you know the one) 2. Ultimate theme 3. The other melee theme 4. Brawl theme 5. Smash 64 theme 6. Smash 4 theme

@@DannyCheezits what? Brawl's theme is by far the best one

@@flydrop8822 maybe if they remastered it it would be less bad because the only form of it is really crusty sounding

Shits so cringe bro, horrid song

@@powerblazer9390 Shit's so cringe, bro. Horrid take.