Is Mono Bass DESTROYING Your Low End? 

Hey everyone. Thanks to you all for watching and supporting the channel. This video has spurred on a very active discussion. 10,000 views in the first 48 hours with very active comments (even saw Dan Worral joined in the discussion). I wanted to offer some additional information that I feel is of benefit: 1) This doesn’t apply to vinyl. I should have mentioned this in the video, but TBH my clients have never asked for a vinyl-compatible master. When mastering for vinyl you’d definitely use an elliptical filter to remove sides information in the lows. Thanks to the folks who pointed out this oversight. Good catch! 2) I’m not the only one speaking about this topic. I highly suggest you watch this video on @mixbustv from the platinum engineer & producer, David Gnozzi: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-5tGpNAC1x2Q.html 3) And this video from Nicholas Di Lorenzo at @panorama_mastering: ru-vid.com7ZgZjngvaLc 4) Watch this video from Wildcrow: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Ld_xTBbzabI.html 5) There is a new(ish) plugin from Tone Projects with mastering engineer Ian Stewart that does some magic allowing you to recover out of phase sides information in the bass for better mono compatibility. See it here: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Gc7xbYisIo8.html 6) Another technique to have wide-sounding bass with excellent mono-compatibility is to use a special saturator that can produce harmonics and pan them without affecting the fundamental at all. Look at Wavesfactory Spectre with it’s De-emphasis mode. You can have a bass with some width and not lose anything by converting it to mono. Watch out video on that here: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-SyqG98MSHQU.html Hope that’s helpful. Happy music making!

Turns out, the reason why my tunes aren't in the top 100 is because there is a conspiracy theory from the top telling me to mono my low end! 🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂

Amazing video thank you so much for sharing your knowledge.

That was a nice video. Shows nicely how important it is to stay open minded about how to approach a track and mix. I remember when monoing bass was pretty much all over youtube and I was kinda suprised to see where you were going in this video. Cudos to you for admitting that you also recommended it when everyone was raving about it.

I used to mono bass until relatively recently. I started meticulously referencing low end on some of my favourite tracks and seen the side information on the low-end. It was a lightbulb moment and went against so much of the assumptions that are held as Gospel in much literature. I am never mono-folding the low-end now. I create reggae and dub.

Very useful information! Thank you!

Absolutely brilliant info !! 😁 Cheers for this

great video !! thank you

Great educator, just as usual !!!

Great video. Liked and subscribed

Really insightful and that part where you say at 18:07 - 18:26 "strong beliefs loosely held" where you explain a little bit about its meaning. Really describes a family member who struggles to just take that incomplete knowledge and just go for it. He's caught in a loop of never ending education, and I am glad you said it this way because when I am tuned out because of way in which my tone of my voice is widely muted a lot I feel like you're approach can reach people in a way that I have been trying for decades. I also learned a lot I had no idea the phase was pushing the gain higher I always thought something was going on and now I know thanks Vespers!

Excellent tutorial. Thanks for this detailed tutorial. 🎉

This is exactly what I needed thank you

Great Vid. 👍

You can hear the subby stereo on all EDM tracks, if you listen close. We have been taught that this can't be but stereo information is absolutely present and it is audible when played in stereo format. The phasing issue of filters was extremely enlightening. I use a dynamic EQ shelf on the low end sidechained to the kick now instead of filtering. I thought it sounded better and you pointed out why with the phasing issue. Great video!

GEEEEZIZ!!! THIS IS A GREAT VIDEO!!! THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!! 🔥🔥🧨🧨

funnily enough I just got metric A/B yesterday to do referencing of my own mix against a Bonobo track and I noticed this exact thing. I decided to undo the monoing of certain elements in the sub regions and the mix just sounded better. But this was a real aha moment for me, so thought it was even more perfect that this video popped up in my yt feed today XD.

I always set my bass to mono, but that's only because all of my songs feature bass neutral tones, I think the main difference that pushed your point is that your using bass synths which that feature a lot of information across the frequency spectrum. I also think that 200Hz is aggressive for a cut, the most I ever go is 60Hz because at the end of the day I just want my bass and kick to be as neutral as possible

Coming from a DnB background I was always taught to keep your bass mono to avoid issues pressing to vinyl as lots of stereo bass energy causes the needle to move too much

I can't thank you enough. Last week I've realised it too but it was just a feeling. I didn't did proper practical research to believe that what I'm hearing is right but you did it. This video was much needed!

Wow! The mono low end is one of the last “rules” i always follow when making songs. This opens so much

This is my "ah-a" moment after seeing THIS revelation of wisdom. I watched a bunch of EQ videos without challenging the overall feel of the track. Thanks a million - sides is a completely new concept for me now!

Outstanding! Kewl that you referenced mixbustv as well. Thank you for doing your homework!👏

Fantastic video. Lots of my suspicions were confirmed.

Always break the rules and experiment! - cheers! 👍👍👍

Man, this is something I wish the tutorials I watched back then have actually clarified whenever a muddy mix was the main subject. They go on and on about cutting the lows to fix muddy mixes but never elaborate on the effects of MID low freq VS SIDE low freq. Only after a long time I realized that it's not a matter of whether the low end is mono at all. like all things in music production, is about finding balance, not about following rules. I only started paying a lot more attention to how important it is to have these side low freq's in there once I approached the production of orchestral music and needed those heavy impactful and wide drum sounds, it's a true eye opener that made me realize I was mindlessly following rules and concepts that were never fully explained to me the way they should. These days the only rules I have stablished to myself are directly tied to my production workflow and the mixing rack I built in Ableton. >Compressor | Take care of dynamics as needed. >EQ Three | Simplify the first approach to 3 knobs and follow my ears. > FabFilter Pro-Q | Take a closer look at problem frequencies and MID|SIDE. >Utility | Generally good to have. >SPAN Plus on my master, of course. Get the main functions mapped across 16 macro knobs and from there, just go with the flow.

As you said , in sound design phase go for stereo methods like unison , Phases offsets. and its also mainly depends on genres too. Also use tools like TDR Nova to undeerstand the difference between summing and difference signals.

This needed to be done.

I realy looked a looong time what makes my Sound rich and fat. In the end i used special EQing Saturation and processed Mono Aux Return mix of the Signal back to the Stereo. That was doing such an impact that i would say thats great to do.. but its also easy using it to much and destroy the whole mix. But if you looking out for some more contrast use an Spl twin Tube and Pultec Clone for the Aux Send and mix it back into the mix just a little bit. You will direkty get a fatten up mix. I prefer using up to 5 Groups and using it only on the Bass and Kick. Great result also came by using Maag EQ4 and no pultec and Push the Air Band and mix it back via Aux. It helps basslines to crunch out but stay clean a bit on the High end make it more into face. I Like Aux becourse its easy to just mute it and listen if it brings realy something that is better for the mix. And it often does. Like upward compression. It is often overlooked by beginners. Everyone use muliple Instance on Chains becourse of CPU or DSP Power nowdays. But some things are just better for some reason. And a tube AmP Aux with an Pultec or EQ4 can realy help out. Becourse if you need more crunch or fatten up you just go 10 - 20 % Wet on the Signal and its done. Mono has no mid Side spec. Its just mono so if you mix it it will go full spectrum and if there is any mistake in the low end that collaps you will make it more worse in Mono. But if you did it right - you get it done.

thank You

Fantastic demonstration and advice. Thank you so much for posting!

What a great video! Thanks for your hard work on your analysis!

Hear, hear! Well done, sir. Mind successfully blown. Subscribed. Edit.... is running low shelfs in series in small steps equal in phase result as just one big move on one instance of the shelf?

We need to get you a grey monochrome coat and some of those single lens glasses and you'll be your logo. Fantastic to see you still guiding producers throughout the years. Big ups!

Greate video 💪😍

11:50 JUST BLEW MY MIND. I make heavy bass music (dubstep, tearout, riddim, dnb) and bass is everything..this is huge for me. Thank you. Subscribed

finally someone speaking the truth...i did this months a go with some tracks...thanks man (from Brazil)

Thanks. I have to rethink and get back to my ears 🙂

A brave video mate. Shows your integrity 👍🏻

I always figured if the Side information is greater than the Mid information in the low end; the Sides need to be addressed. I never understood why the Sides needed to be eliminated completely. Vinyl & Genre are definitely a deciding factor. I tested a bunch of Bass & Electronic music tracks that were pressed to vinyl and almost all of them have the sides removed around 100 - 200Hz. I would assume that there are exceptions to the rule. Great video, Drew. Something to think about anyway. Bless.

Wow, really interesting, I will experiment with wide low end.

STRONG BELIEFS LOOSELY HELD... that's a gem👌

❤ wow that's an ear opener! I'm a long time proponent of large full range stereo speakers, or smaller speakers with STEREO subs. A prime example that pseudo science theory vs reality are often very different!

Used to be so, so that the needle wouldn't jump off a record on a wide stereo low end and it's also friendlier on cheaper multi-speaker setups, where the bass can be routed to a more expensive powerfull competent speaker because, we hear bass worse for it needs more gain to stack up to the mids, and as to do so, it carries a lot of air at meter long wavelenghts, which means we lack direction sensitivity to bass, we can't locate it, so it being stereo is - perceptionally - kind of an oxymoron... Having more info on the sides just means more bass, you won't feel much width, just more amplitude (loudness) assuming it doesn't cancel out with the other side, a lot can happen to those meter long reflections, specially if they hang around stationary...

What's mapped to the 'widen top' macro? Also, what software were you using to display the bass going out of phase when you were low cutting? I've seen that tool in a few videos now and it would be handy to have it. Cheers

Actually putting on my headphones for this

I love the way how you present this, great job, mate

I am feeling kinda sheepish!!! Thanks for setting a beginner straight.

Best!

thanks

Thanks Drew very interesting I think the main issue people worry about is phase issues of which let's be honesty a little bit of phase issues is not a problem its using your ears. I keep under 120 mono so from now on I will use these methods for sure.

There's two types of producers. Those who twist only the knobs and press the exact same buttons that previous successful producers have taught them... And then theres producers who go on to be successful... The two are often times mutually exclusive.... Music is an art... If you're just replicating the creative mind of other people then you've already failed at it.

BIG TUTORIAL

One reason people mono the bass is because it's easier to avoid phase cancellation issues without accidentally making something that sounds good but cancels too much when in mono. But this can be addressed by checking the mix from time to time with mono bass and then turning it off. Listening to the whole mix in mono is too painful for extended sessions. Sometimes I use mono bass for a whole day then shut it off the next day.

I FRICKIN ALWAYS HAD THAT INTUITION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! it always felt and sounded wrong when i did that. EVERY TIME, I listened to a professional song that I look up to, I thought, I always heard massive sub and bass in the sides, but right after I said to myself, SURELY, they are professionals, SURELY they all follow that "rule" that everyone is preaching to mono your bass completely below 200hz and left it at that. Thank you so much!!!

The original reason to remove low end stereo was because on LP Records it caused the needle to jump, so it was necessary. If you intend to release LPs you'll still need it mastered that way. It's obviously possible to alter the tone settings on a hi-fi to make up for the loss rather than making unplayable LPs. Prior to CDs introduction in the 1980s there was no choice.& listeners never thought there was a problem, they just turned the Bass up on the hi-fi equipment..

What about the neccessarity to have no sideinformation in the low-end for vinyl production?

Gonna get that plugin doctor and test my plugins 🔥👍🏾

Mono for headroom never made any sense to me, my only concern was always how stereo bass translates in Club sound systems. This video is food for though tho, thanks. I wonder how well all this translate for people who only use mono-bass in the actual bass / kick and not in the master stage.

i've learned that having the bass in mono is relevant for music thats being released on vinyl, eg House / Techno. Would this still hold up?

Im pretty sure clipping/limiting makes stuff less mono! (Clipping causes dustortion throught the entire spectrum, so im pretty sure its just reflecting the mid/side signal down!!) I usually mono stuff, and after my master it becomes less mono! Instead of fighting it i just roll with it, abd put my final stereo shaper just before my final limiter (not after b/c eq phase shift loses mr headroom)

I've heard this trend over and over again, and on my first few real mixes realized I in fact needed low shelf boosting on basses, specifically on the sides, to get the sound I was going for.

Watching this, I am like why have we been lied to for so long lol🤣

What is your thoughts on certain plugins that have a mono maker dial? OK to use or not?

"You gotta mono the lows, bruh" is advice spouted from people who only heard of it because of the practice for vinyl. And it's always spouted by people who have never, and never will, cut anything to vinyl.

This "tip" is mostly applicable to bass heavy forms of dance music, where the bass is moving a lot, and the track will often be played on mono systems, and if they are just summing L+R channels, then excessive stereo image in the low bass/sub range can cause phase issues and make the bass weaker in certain spots of the spectrum (depending on how the waves interact and what you actually do to them) and as the song relies on the bass to drive the track groove it's often easier for people to just not have stereo bass at all, than to get it mono compatible with stereo information. However widening effects that leave very little pure center information are the real big issues here, a lightly panned send ping-pong delay with the original bass left in is nothing like say a Hass effect that doesn't leave a center channel and moves almost everything into stereo, delayed from each other (phase central, pun intended :P). It's a lot less important with commercial style music with instruments and singers etc... but should still have mono compatibility ideally as it's often played on single blue tooth speakers or point source stereo from the other side of a room. Loosing a few db of bass at 70Hz then however isn't going to ruin a track hidden behind the wash of other sounds, but in a club when all you have is a bass and a kick/snare and some funky sounds in the mids to fill the space, it's much more important the bass doesn't phase with it's self at all (unless intended), as it's the main if not second main focal point. It's very important if mixing for Vinyl however, but hardly anyone does this these days.

Thank you for the revelation 🙏

I usually add more fatness/sub/punch to the sides rather than cutting

I only mono 60Hz and below. 60+ Hz is within the territory of some bass guitars and even synths that sound fuller in stereo.

Okay…..while I get where you’re coming from, and agree that no one should automatically do anything advised on RU-vid, There’s quite a bit missing in this discussion, rendering its insinuations and conclusions misleading at best. I don’t have time to deep dive, but a couple questions: A) I might’ve missed it, but didn’t hear mention of where mono bass originates, Vinyl and EEQs. Essentially, almost Every song that left the mixing studio, entered the mastering studio, and instantly had this done. The simplified reason is, if the bass was too wide, the actual needle would jump out of the actual groove on the record. Now you could say: Well who cares about Vinyl anymore? (The answer is plenty of people.) But my question is: Was all of that music ‘damaged’ or ‘sub-optimal’ in some way, following the main theme of this video. ALL of those engineers were Wrong? B) Speakers and Headphones. In short, on speakers what leaves the left speaker reaches both the left And right ear, at different times and levels. This is not true on headphones, which isolate one from the other. So music mixed in Stereo on speakers then played back on headphones, is simply not the same, in terms of stereo imaging. It doesn’t translate. As a listener, you can get headphone amplifiers (or software) with a “cross feed” feature, allowing you to blend some of the left signal into the right earphone and vice versa. This helps with a more realistic sound stage listening to existing music. As a mix engineer however, presumably you want your music to translate to as many listening devices and scenarios as possible, specifically so that the listeners experience on speakers or headphones is more or less consistent. So similar to checking a stereo mix for mono-compatibility, and making adjustments to the mix to ensure that the mix works in both experiences, you Also check a stereo mix for Stereophonic and Binaural compatibility, and similarly make adjustments to ensure translation. One common phenomenon is that if during the stereo imaging phase of a mix, you adjust every tracks Width and Panning while listening on Cans as opposed to triangulated Monitors, you won’t be able to push things out as far before the image “breaks”. For one thing, as we all know, items panned up the middle, on speakers occupy a “Phantom Center” that sits out in front of you between the speakers, as if there were a third speaker in that position. However, on cans, that phantom image is inside your skull, behind your eyes, between your ears. (Again cross feed helps pull that forward). So when you’re panning, at some point on cans, the image appears Behind you and confuses the stereo image and soundstage that you’re presumably trying to construct. Furthermore, if you push to the boundary on Your cans, are you sure that the listener’s headphones and more importantly their sense of Psychoacoustics will allow the same panning as yours? One technique for addressing this is Mono the Bass, but not to a specific frequency, rather to adjust that frequency along with adjusting the width of the track in question. There seems to be a direct relationship with how Centering the low end, allows for more widening of the upper frequencies. There are scientific arguments that pertain to human evolution and frequency perception etc, but everyone can, and probably should, just try it for yourselves. So I guess my question is this: If what I just said is true, and again try it yourself, then by Not monoing the bass, contrary to this videos implication, you are panning less wide by instinct, and therefore Losing width overall….Right? C) Methodology. By trying to show examples of mixes that are successful, that have wide bass, you did prove that monoing the bass isn’t essential for commercial success. Okay. But you went on to imply that people who do mono, are concerned that their entire mix will fail otherwise. Who is that scarecrow? And, taking ANY mix and dramatically cutting frequencies after (HPF at 200hz!) a carful mix and master has been balanced, will pretty much destroy the intentions of Any mix. The point is: What would that mix have sounded like had that engineer used this technique? Would they have constructed a Wider or Narrower mix overall? Would that mix have translated to more or less listening experience? But kinda like mixing Into bus compression or “glue”, and then disabling the compressor after every mix decision was made with it in place, of course the results are gonna be worse, you just undid Every prior mix decision. You can’t just unbake a cake. D) Lastly (not because it’s the last argument, just the last I have time for) I would have thought, given your experience in Electric Music, that you’d have focused on the implications of mono bass to maximizing reproduction in venue spaces. 1) Many clubs and other common venues have their entire system mono’d. There are many reasons and not much you can do about that, and it speaks more to checking overall mono compatibility, but it’s part of the same set of mix awareness items. 2) Send sound to one speaker, then switch on another, and you doubled the SPL. Send a signal to the left, then also the right, same. You can use that to either get double the SPL, or get the same SPL by sending half the signal to two speakers. Simple math. Well a venue doesn’t have hypothetical speakers, they have real ones, with finite output levels (even at a festival with a hundred Dave Rat Super-Subs). So anything that is Not mono’d is in effect Not using the potential budget of allotted power, and anything that is Stereo information is in mastering terms “Difference” between the two speakers, rather than “Sum”. Stereo is the left and right working against each other, mono is both speakers moving air together. Obviously the Subjective side of mixing say do whatever tf you want, but Objectively stereo speakers work a certain way, and Many people make the subjective choice that: since humans perceive lower frequencies in a less localized way anyhow, and I don’t know how much power any given playback system can produce from Each side, then I’m going to deliver most of my bottom end to Both speakers giving me or rather the end user, the maximum amount of potential SPL before the amps or speakers clip. Is this too incorrect? Even if you conclude that spreading the low end doesn’t significantly reduce any potential SPL, and that you prefer to trade off that loss against a subjective gain in lowend Stereo imaging, are you suggesting that this should be everyone’s calculus? And shouldn’t the Whole discussion about a particular Extremely Common audio technique be discussed before being dismissed on RU-vid in a clickbaity audio mythbuster video? Is it possible that countless audio engineers who Do use this technique, kinda know what they’re doing?

The natural ILD (Interaural Level Difference) of human hearing at bass frequencies (below 200 Hz) is about 0-3 dB for sound sources not very near head. ILD of 1 dB can be considered mild stereophony at bass frequencies. This is achieved by having side channel information about 25 dB quieter than the mid channel. ILD = 2 dB is moderate bass stereophony (mid about 19 dB louder than side) and ILD = 3 dB is full bass stereophony (mid about 15 dB louder than side). Instead of mono bass we should be talking about near mono bass where the side channel is at least 15 dB quieter than the mid channel below 200 Hz. Mono bass is just a trivial simple way to get there, but not optimal. Natural ILD increases with frequency. The side channel should get more and more active towards the high frequences. In case there is need to pan low frequency sounds to left or right, delay between the channels (ITD or Interaural Time Difference) + the small ILD talked above is the way to go. The natural ITD at bass frequencies is about 0-800 microseconds. This applies to headphone listening. On loudspeakers the interaction of the speakers and the room acoustics shape the bass spatiality in its unique way, but the result is similar except for anomalities at room mode frequencies.

yes Vespers, Ableton OG !

3. Yes it does matter what genre.

Only a question of phase

While there is stereo bass in most modern music, that doesn't mean that they're not keeping the main or dry signal in mono and getting the stereo effect from an aux send. That's usually how I do it so I can have more control.

where can one download the 808 maker?

4:00 I have a single 12in sub with 2 8in monitors and I couldn't hear much of anything at this point. I have L + R going into the sub but here's a 100hz highpass filter coming out of the sub going into the monitors, could that be why I don't hear it? I'm going to switch it later and see what it sounds like without the highpass. Great video though, I learned a lot!

This video deserves an Oscar! Kudos, Vespers! 🙌

'There is something special down there' -that`s what she said :D

Should we still high pass filter other instruments to make space and remove the rumble of recording ? I am lost

the adjustment poles on your headphones look like two bic biro pen's!!!

All the bad mixing advice comes from broadcast and this sub harmonizer device that was standard.. bc there was a mechanical limitation to the low end with vinyl playback itd be added artificially by this device during playBack..

I actually heard the negative effects of mono bass while mixing a track few years back, while a/bing the settings I came to the conclusion that I should trust my ears and not do this on autopilot.

could it be that the side info test results were meaningless because you tested on a 2-track? i wonder what differences it would make if that test was done during the stem mixing process.

If you make dance music for big club systems you need the bass in mono or you are going to lose power, the mix must sound good in mono. The best thing i think is to synthesise your own sub so you can have control on the phase and the side information

Wait! But how about vinyl?

I would 100% argue in favor of out of phase wide bottom, the monoed out version sounds sufficiently good and the advantage you have is immense, so much space for the vocal it's insane. There's more than half of the french rap scene that have super wide low end. If you get the kick right, less bass is not that bad in a club or a car (that have static modes and build ups in every corner anyway)

there's a free EQ plugin called Marvel EQ that has a linear phase

They've aggressively cut the Seids information 😢

I started referencing tracks like this with SPAN in m/s mode about a year ago and noticed the same thing. Since I stopped cutting the lows on the sides, my mixes have a lot more weight to them. So much bad information on the internet that's probably ruined so many mixdowns.

so, don't mono the bass with ableton's utility alone ??

keep in mind, the example you're showing on the track from DJ IBG, is being shown on a finished mix. The -0.1db reduction seen here by cutting the low end of the sides, would be compensated for if the limiter was after it on the master chain, and would go back to -5.5 in this example depending on the limiter/clipper. Overall, it doesnt make much difference. I personally like a mono sub though. Great Video and the moral of challenging what we're taught is absolutely critical, in many aspects of life, far outside of the studio!!

You DONT want stereo bass in the low frequencies when you are cutting vinyl records. God forbid you are slightly out of phase, the needle will jump out of groove. I learned this in the 90s making electro breaks. You learn quick when you ruin a acetate and a short run of test presses.

LP EQ has its own side effects which can ruin kick/bass more than a standard EQ. I wouldn't use it anywhere besides multi-mic kick and snare. Also 48dB slope cut is too extreme for any genre. People do even 96dB cuts - pure madness :) Phase side effects of HPF can be desirable but it requires experience and trained ears. I've been telling for years that doing HPF on autopilot is bad idea but well... Some people doesn't want to listen and later they complain that their bass with HPF at 120Hz (for real) is weak. Psytrance genre was (or still is) a victim of this autopilot mentality and that the higher you cut, the better.

🙂👍

Wouldn't you get a different result with something already mastered vs unmastered? Mastered music (especially pop) is squashed to hell. Seems like that would potentially give you a different result.

8:09 isn't this to be expected though? You're applying EQ after the master limiter on a commercially released song. Of course it's going to clip. If one were to mono the lows it would have to be done before the master limiter.

I really want to watch this… but there is so much sibilance from the mic that it is a touch too piercing and tad too distracting to concentrate

So what I started doing for mono bass, is to flip the phase on one channel of the "sides" to collapse THAT to mono, and then I mix that with the "middle" mono bass, and make sure those two are in phase. Now the "sides" bass is all still there, but in mono.

U shouldn 't use the mono knob in utility or eq indeed. U also shouldn 't use linear phase eq 's. But, sub bass should be in mono.