Is Rhaena Replacing Nettles? That Would Suck. 

The thing that bugs me is that Rhaena is supposed to hatch a dragon herself anyway. That would be a unique and empowering storyline for her, which would not require cutting one of the most anticipated characters in the entire show. Although I’ve also read that the multiple black women spotted in the Dragonseeds scenes could be stand-ins for Nettles who they plan to cast for season 3

“Daemon can’t produce dragonseeds, he grew up in King’s Landing.” So the Lord of Dragonstone who lives less than a day’s dragon ride to Dragonstone, couldn’t POSSIBLY be capable of producing a bastard on that island? Interesting take.

WHY CANT THEY JUST FOLLOW A FUCKING WINNING FORMULA? GRRM makes great characters! Just follow his lead and you will succeed in this world!

First they cut Daeron, and I did not speak up because I was not a Daeron fan…

I saw another video where David Lightbringer suggests that maybe the Rhaena Sheepstealer rumors in the Vale are a subplot where she tracks and tries to tame Sheepstealer but fails, setting up Rhaena hatching Morning and Nettles taming Sheepstealer in season 3. Which would be really really cool actually

One interesting theory for the real reason that Rhaenyra wanted Nettles executed: Nettles isn't a confirmed Dragonseed. She presents the possibility that a commoner without Valerian blood could claim a dragon, which is a potential threat to the Targaryen dynasty. Rhaenyra doesn't want the small folk getting ideas.

Dont let Nettles get Stoneheart'd 😢

You can't replace Nettles with Rhaena .... She's....his daughter.... And the Nettles mystery is SO COOL........ And Rhaena survived the war???

I really hope this isn't true, but I have a feeling it is and that it's meant to whitewash Rhaenyra again. In the lore, she hated Nettles for becoming Daemon's lover and even ordered her execution. Casual fans love Rhaenyra, but this would make many people upset with her. I don't think the showrunners, who often whitewash her character, would want that to happen.

> Nettles coming from nowhere Not exactly. First, she might well be a dragonseed. Second, she's actually relatively rich. She was able to afford a freshly slaughtered sheep every morning for quite some time.

Imagine if they made the Velaryons black just because of this one character merger LOL

Nooo not Nettles, I need me some nettle soup

Nettles should not be disrespected

My 2 cents: This show has tried so hard to make The Greens look so bad and The Blacks so good. I wouldn’t put it past the showrunners to take out the affair between Nettles and Daemon to make Daemon and Rhaenyra’s marriage look stronger/better than it is in the source material.

Nettles as a non-dragon seed (no genetic connection) would be far better especially if she is developed throughout the season then wrangles a dragon. Valyrian magic was able to use blood to force dragons to their will, but Nettles likely took the original and more chaotic route of bonding with a dragon. Nettles also creates the conflict when the other two dragon seeds revolt which gives the call to take them all down. However, if Nettles is just a genetic dragon seed then really aside from commoner power, there's nothing big changed making it Rhaena. The conflict though would not be she's dangerous as a dragonseed, but dangerous that Daemon places her above his children with Rhaenyra.

Nettles and Daeron are two of my favs, and god I am scared of what’s to come lol. Still excited for the show but mannnn

paternal incest is such a taboo that even in asoiaf only terrible characters like Craster do it Even the full force of rouge prince/Matt Smith charisma would not bring him back if that happned

I’m curious with what they’ll do with Laenor Velaryon being alive. Unless he dies in the plot line, Addam of Hull won’t be able to ride Seasmoke. My honest guess is all three characters will be written out or made irrelevant… sigh

Nettles is probably the best part of fire and blood. Removing her would be so dumb

I don't think Nettles is the best thing about Fire and Blood or even the best characters, but she is certainly very very important. Her relationship with Daemon and Rhaenyra and also if she was a dragonseed or simply tamed a dragon by sheep similar to how Valyrian sheepherders of old might have first bonded to dragons. I like the show is trying to get Baela and Rhaena to do stuff in the show, but really replacing Nettles is a big detriment to Daemon, Rhaenyra and dragon lore ;/

Jon didn't look like a targ. And sheepstealer was wild, so even with the gene, he was not just going to respond to a dohaerys like vhagar did with aemond. I don't understand why her simply being dark and using a common sense method would clal into question whether or not she could have some targ genes.

Nettle presents a dilemma: Either she is a dragon seed and looks nothing like a Targ. Which shows the bullshit eugenics of Targs and specially of the greens. Or she hasn't Targ blood at all, and then Targs aren't that special and should not have any leeway.

Very dumb decision cutting Nettles

I'm starting to believe Condall made the Velaryons black for two reasons: brownie points and making the paternity subplot obvious. Note that Rhaenys is Targ blonde in this show likely so people wouldn't forget she's a Targ. Atypical GOT simplified writing.

I never bought in to the idea that Rhaenyra ordered Nettle's death because she was jealous of her affair with Daemon. Everything about that section of F&B doesn't add up. About Daemon and Mysaria's relationship during the Dance, we're told: _Prince Daemon remained in her thrall, and called upon her every evening…with Queen Rhaenyra’s apparent blessing. "Let Daemon slake his hungers where he will," she is reported to have said_ and _his nightly visits to Lady Mysaria, whose bed he oft shared whilst at court…with the queen’s blessing, purportedly_ But then: _Her Grace asked whether she thought Ser Addam and Nettles might be planning to betray them. Then the White Worm raised her eyes and said in a soft voice, "The girl has already betrayed you, my queen. Even now she shares your husband’s bed, and soon enough she will have his bastard in her belly_ It makes no sense - Rhaenyra is cool with Mysaria sleeping with Daemon, but not Nettles? And Mysaria is cool with Daemon sleeping with Rhaenyra, but then acts like a bitter ex when Nettles enters the picture? And Rhaenyra takes Mysaria at face value, while she's doubting and distrusting all her other allies? Then Daemon's actions make no sense... previously, he and Nettles were headquartered at Maidenpool, and flew around the Riverlands looking for Vhagar together, cuz they believe they can only beat Aemond in a 2-v-1 fight. Then the letter from Rhaenyra arrives, Daemon gets Nettles to flee, he moves to Harrenhal and waits for Vhagar for 2 weeks. So... he's disloyal enough to Rhaenyra to help Nettles escape and is presumably cool with Maidenpool switching sides, but loyal enough to keep hunting Vhagar? Why did the loss of Nettles make him abandon both the "fly around looking for Vhagar" and the "use Maidenpool as a headquarters" strategies? It kinda makes me doubt that any of the events at Maidenpool went down as purported in F&B.

How are they gonna make this change when Nettles is the motivation for Deamon’s ultimate demise. Rhaenyra hears of Deamon having an affair with Nettles, orders Nettles death, and that is what makes Daemon go all “suicide bomber” with Aemond.

My biggest pet peeve is people saying nettles bonded the dragon by feeding it sheep instead of the traditional way. Thats just dumb. She used the sheep to convince the dragon to allow her to get close enough to form the bond. If theres no dragon bond sheepstealer would have left nettles when he got bored. And he certainly wouldnt have lived the rest of his life with her in the caves, hed have flown home to the dragon mont, because we knkw dragona like to return to their birth place. Like drogon to the dothraki sea, and balerion to valyria.

Dumb and Dumber's holdouts didn't learn a thing about what happens when you remove characters and locations and plot points.

I get that they have to condense cast members. But they couldnt just condense the two sisters who are literally indistinguishable?

I always thought that Nettles was just a black Targ bastard but this take of Preston was cool too

They will just forget the romance part of diamond. I HOPE.

The beginning of the video says that the full video is available via yt membership, and to see description for details. But there are no details in the desxription, and membering is not an option for this channel. So wtf.

Nettles probably bonded with dragon due to her Valyrian blood as well. That whole sheepfeeding stuff was because Sheepstealer was *wild* dragon and didn't allowed dragonseeds to come close to it.

Nettles is probably my favorite character from F&B but I don’t see this as a big deal. The show is completely different and not concerned with the same themes as the book. At the end of the day, it gives Rhaena’s character something cool to do other than just waiting in the Vale being sad.

Unfortunately, the conglomeration of characters happens a lot in TV/film adaptations of books. It happened in original GoT in several cases e.g. Edric Storm's plot lines being amalgamated into Gendry's character. It makes sense for the faster pace of visual media. It saves paying for another actress, avoids expanding the cast confusingly in season 2, and allows a greater fleshing out of Rhaena's storyline, who we already met in season 1. Doing this has its drawbacks too, but it's expected.

I've wondered if the show might merge Mysaria and Nettles into a composite character. There was a moment at the end of the very first episode when Daemon was leaving Kings Landing, where on being introduced to each other, Mysaria and Caraxes seemed to have a Jon Snow and Drogon moment. It would allow them to both maintain conservation of character and expand Sonoya Mizuna's role in the show without significantly altering the plot.

The end result of identity politics. There is no difference between Nettles and Rhaena. They are both black (in the show), and therefore the same. Their individual circumstances are irrelevant. Preston cheered the change to the Velaryons on, now this happens LMAO I guess you get what you ask for

I want Rhaena to hatch Morning and I want Nettles with Sheepstealer

I would not like the removal and replacement of nettles. However, I always felt the relationship between Nettles and Daemon was more innocent than claimed. That he was more of a mentor in the Valyrian ways, and an admirer of hers. Admired and respected for the "natural" way she claimed her mount. I can see their impulse to merge the characters based on that alone. I think you're right and the writers have missed the big picture if they've really chosen to do this. Not to mention the Burned Men... where did they get their name and culture from if not nettles (assumed Vale Dragon Witch)!

I wonder if this an effect from the strike since they couldn't do rewrites?

No nettles would be a disappointment

Wow I just commented this exact thing on Lml the other day cuz of the scene between her and her mother talking about claiming a dragon

Preston will just report his interpretation of the ambiguous text that is Fire & Blood as if it's the one true story from which any deviation is heresy. Like, nowhere does it say that Nettles is not a dragonseed. She could just be a dragonseed with a black mother. She feeds Sheepstealer and that helps her bond, but that doesn't prove anything I mean the nature of dragon/rider bonding is pretty deliberately ambiguous. And like why can't Nettles be Daemon's daughter? I agree that there's a subtext there about her being Daemon's concubine. But that's the thing -- the novel is both stories at once. It's a deliberate ambiguity in which both interpretations are intended to be valid. You can't claim that one is better or more canon when the book is clearly a deliberate exercise in literary ambiguity. Although all that said, I would be disappointed if they conflated her with Rhaena too, and I think it would loose some of the thematic content in the adaptation if it were so.

I agree, I don't like the idea of merging Nettles and Rhaena. On the one hand, it makes sense from a pure writing efficiency point-of-view. Rhaena doesn't do much during the war, and yet she's already been established as a character. Nettles is yet another character that has to be introduced and followed around, and another actress that has to be paid. It makes sense to cut a character in order to give another character that's already been introduced more to do. And it has been set-up as a proper character arc for her with her feeling her father doesn't respect her due to a lack of dragons. And this could even easily lead into a character arc where Daemon slowly grows closer with her. On the other hand, as Preston says, it really kind of cuts the point of the character. Which is that she's this person who came from nothing, has not birth right and through pure merit managed to become a dragonrider. It also takes away all the nuance from her relationship with Daemon, which in the book is very ambiguous. Was she his girlfriend? Was she a surrogate daughter? What was their relationship? We don't know, we just know it seems to have changed Daemon. And it also makes you question how they can ever pull off the same plot point around Rhaenyra and Daemon there, let alone as effectively. Which, if Rhaenyra thought he was with Nettles due to Mysaria, but in actuality Nettles was a surrogate daughter to Daemon... then there's tragedy there. It's a tragic misunderstanding. But if she's known to be his daughter that doesn't work. So, yeah, hope this isn't true. It would suck, even if I get why they'd be tempted to do it.

The character mushroom which is a far more involved character than Nettles wasn’t included in the show. As interesting as she is, Nettles didn’t even have a pov in fire and blood. So I’m not jumping to conclusions until I watch the season and then go from there✌️

I mean, if you cast an actor, you should give them some lines and some action. They've already cast Rhaena. But yeah, I like Nettles too, sooo we don't always get all we want.

Nettles as a character and has a Dragon seed is such a cool addition to the Civil War. And what that character represents is that anyone without their special Dragon Blood and ride that damn dragon. It'll be the greatest shame if that character is written out of the show or retconned.

I thought this would happen because the show isn't going to make Rhaenyra into an awful person. Rhaena is already a character in the show and she doesn't really have a character in the book. So by giving her Nettles' story it'll allow her to spend time with Daemon and be on the show. They also planted seeds in the show of Rhaena disliking Aemond, so she'll be connected to the hunt for him. If the show wanted to make Rhaenyra unfavorable then they would keep Nettles and Nettles would have to be Daemon's lover. Then Rhaenyra can have her jealousy arc. The writers might like that since they don't like Daemon, but I think there's going to be preference to keep Rhaenyra as a favorable character.

Daemon explicitly says he and his brother fucked their way through flea bottom...nettles daemon daughter is actually quite viable.and the Rhaenyra jealousy rumors she misinterprets fatherly affection for a romantic one

Nettles is Valyrian tho lol just cuz she darker don’t mean anything neither does her hair because there are black hair Targaryen. Also nettles is not daemon actual daughter but she very well can be a daughter like person lol the maester in the story literally said that it was a daughter relationship so acting like that’s just a theory is crazy

George stated the verlayons in the book did have a ethnicity. He wanted them to be black also

My fear... Producers: we want a boss girl!!! Make Rhaena interesting!!! Somebody: a interesting political plot in the Valley were she shows her intelligence and strong will? Producers: Fuck no!!! Give her a dragon with a lot of senseless action scenes!!!! Like the acclaimed seasons 7 y 8 of GOT Somebody: why? Producers: For us a women only can be strong and respect if is a warrior, for that Rhaenyra test sword in the trailer, she gonna defeat veteran warriors without having to train. Fuck smart political dialogues, people want action!!!! Somebody: i have a bad feeling... Producers: Fuck you misogynist!!!! Is like coronation scene in last season!!! Who want conspiracy and political debate in the Green Council like in the books? Only 5 minutes of that, is better a senseless looking in King's Landing and later a boss girl scene of Rhaenys. Sorry the bad english.

Morning is just a small dragon now

Oh we’re charging for discussions now. Bye.

People will get over it (or just ignore it). Readers who know better seemed happy enough with the Vaemond Velaryon protest scene, projecting the disenfranchised minority image on the #2 member of _literally_ the richest family in the seven kingdoms, who just wanted to contest a will in his own favor. That always made me uncomfortable. Should we have to view him as a victim due to his race outside of the show, or would it be better to let him be the privileged guy that he is (in the context of the show) regardless of color? I didn't automatically feel sorry for Regé-Jean Page in Bridgerton, since he was the fricking Duke of Hastings, though they at least alluded to racial discrimination inherent in our world, as opposed to the magical dragon tamer universe.

it would indeed suck and i think it's happening

How the hell they want to exclude nettles, when clearly in the Game of thrones short videos. She was mentioned? Are the writers and producers of this tv series on cocaine or something?

If I had a dollar for everytime HBO cut out a minor yet very important character in ASOIAF related productions that was essentially a startup to the show going bad I would have 2 (or more than 2 ) dollars which isnt a lot but its sad that its happening again .

So besides the fact that it would suck for them to cut Nettles, the show runners also want to nerf yet another character. This time it’s Rhaena b/c Rhaena is the one who hatched Morning. There was no one else around that could’ve hatched Morning. Rhaena isn’t just a dragon rider but she can hatch eggs too! So they’re gonna nerf Rhaena’s magic while buffing Baela’s magic. Moondancer shouldn’t be anywhere near as big as Vermax. Moondancer isn’t even as big as Stormcloud. That’s why even a grievously injured Stormcloud was able to bear its rider Aegon’s weight all the way back to Dragonstone before Moondancer can bear Baela’s weight.

As a mixed guy, I can't help but point out that a legitimate original brown-skinned character - that book readers like - is, apparently, being replaced by Rhaena, a race swapped character. The entire thing about "creating new characters instead of changing the identity of existing ones" doesn't seem to have reached HBO... but I'm supposed to like the Velaryon swap, right? Yeah, no.

Daemon had a Vale wife and didnt see her for more than 9 months.

Nettles is most certainly Daemons basterd daughter hense why she can ride a dragon and hense why she and him are so close before the end of the war

Are they actually cutting Nettles or is this jus speculation?

5:13 Just because Nettles doesn’t have Valyrian features, does not mean she is not of Valyrian descent. She’s definitely still telepathically bonded to Sheepstealer, it’s just that her technique was incredibly smart and well-played. Nettles is a badass because she rides a WILD dragon, not because she’s a black, non-Valyrian, that claimed a dragon. Excluding her is story sacrilege.

Re: Nettles being Daemon's daughter Think you have to go into the timeline a bit to fully dismiss it. See if the age of Nettles and Daemon being around Dragonstone/Driftmark lines up And will say, for a guy who believes Jace could be Criston Cole's son, Preston is a bit dismissive of Nettles being Daemon's daughter based on skin colour. Seeing that Jace has the exact hair and eye colouring of Harwin Strong, and not that of Criston. The mother could maybe be a very dark skinned summer islander, which would explain the brown skin colour of Nettles. Also may not have been a romance between Daemon and Nettles, all we know for sure is that they were great companions. Not saying the theory is true, but to be sooo dismissive of it is a bit much

IF Nettles isn't in HotD, then the implication is that Nettles is NOT Leaf in text. Leaf was in Got, if they were same person in text, Nettles will be in HotD. And why does everyone believe that Laenor couldn't possibly have children of his own simply because he likes men? It is very likely Laenor had children of his own-and it is likely Rhaeyra knew about them. They were married AND family AND friends with each other. They had a TRUE contract. A TRUE Agreement. Pretty rare, that. Rhaenyra and Laenor did genuinely love each other, in text and in show. That love wasn't passionate, but it WAS deep and abiding on both sides. Harwin was part of that.

Preston and Carmine > Batman and Robin

Isn't the reason she used sheeps because SheepStealer was a "wild" dragon? No one was able to tame him so she used sheeps to make it easier. It doesn't mean she didn't have Targ blood. Both things helped.

Mysaria has darker skin, what if Nettles was her child from Daemon?

please god no? in bad taste and actually a terrible idea

they probably gonna kill sheepstealer in season 4. Is a huge change they want to make no possibility of dragons surviving the dance probably Nettles and sheeps surives the dance in the books giving some hope that still exits dragons somewhere

Going off the leaks rhaena might try claim Sheepstealer and fail

I think it makes sense. I never really got how so many people think Nettles is such an important character. Other than being the only one to ride a dragon by feeding it, she’s in one battle hangs with Daemon for a bit than leaves the story. Have Rhaena feed Sheepsteeler I don’t see a issue, gives her character something to do.

Wouldn't GRRM have expressed to the showrunners why nettles is important?

God i hope its not true. I think they made enough changes to the first season of the story. Thats enough. Why why why? What purpose would it serve?

preston king

Nettles is likely a dragon seed as anyone else. We have absolutely zero information on her lineage

First they came for Mushroom. Then they came for Daeron Now they come for Nettles and Morning

Why??why would they do that....

Why people are surprised? Arianne Martel is the best poc character in Ice and Fire with one the most interesting plot and she was cut from GOT. Euron Greyjoy is not even the same character so I'm zero surprised that Rhaena is gonna take her place in the dance.

They are trying HARD to make Daemon and Rhaenyra the good guys and making them modern. They don’t want to show Daemon cheating on Rhaenyra. He’s a perfect man. They don’t want to show Daemon fucking Nettles who would be underaged by modern standards. They want to show him being a good father to Rhaena because then he would be “complex”?

No you’re missing the point nettles has the dragon blood...Jon snow/velaryon bastards dont look Targaryen.she was just smart to use sheep it was a wild dragon.

So i dont agree with it, but Nettles being Daemons daughter isnt that far off from possible. We dont know he wasnt in the brothels as a teen, and we dont know her backstory, as its left ambiguous for reasons. To keep us wondering who she is and how she was able to tame the dragon when no one else could. She claimed she was a dragon seed, but because she didnt look Targaryen, dismissed as one. It makes sense, too, because even though Rhaenyra thought he was cheating on her, Daemon didnt exactly make it seem like that...besides spending time with her...which if she was his daughter...that would also be expected. I think i am believing this now that i think about it. Sorry but not much crazier than half of the theories Preston puts out, and i give a lot of them credit for plausibility, too.

What's GRRM going to say at the end of 2024 when he still hasn't finished The Winds of Winter?

First they cut Mushroom and not Nettles, lame.

I’m torn bc I love Nettles, but I absolutely hate her story with Daemon. It always just had icky vibes to me. Rhaenyra going nuts because she hears that Nettles might be pregnant (important that she doesn’t care about the affair. It’s the potential pregnancy) and the whole framing of Nettles like, ‘redeeming’ Daemon while his crazy jealous wife loses her shit is just…….not good framing. I never liked that. But real ones know Nettles is Leaf and Daemon is Coldhands so they could have gone with that instead right. On a more serious note they could have just had Daemon genuinely just intrigued in how she managed to tame a dragon and get close to her because of that, altho that’s starting to give potential Rhaegar and Lyanna vibes (him finding her and being impressed by her being the KOTLT) so I feel the framing is kind of inevitable. I always liked when Nettles came back from the battle of the Gullet and she’s the only one crying. Says a lot about who she really was as a person

Nettles is VERRY important and she is a dragon seed!!! They are not replacing nettles!!

I am 100% sure that Helaena will get Daeron's story

PJ IS BACK FOMOS

they should just have nettles and rhaena

If nettles is dropped, I'm done with this show. George is staking his legacy and life on watering down his work. He said from the very beginning, that his work was unable to be adapted. We are seeing that it's truer than ever before.

It’s so over

It’s awful they’re removing this great character

Nettles was never interesting to me because she was a POC but because she earned a wild dragons trust the same way you tame a street cat.

SURELY NOT

No she is not! Nettles will still be in there!

Rhaena being Nettles is hardly a surprise. This was more than set-up in the first season. Rhaena will totally dye her hair black and appear in Harrenhal as Nettles. The whole point of the conversation between Rhaena and Laena in episode 7, about how Deamon doesn't care about her because she doesn't have a dragon, is all about this change from the book. Furthermore, Laena tells her, that there is more than one way to claim a dragon. So if Rhaena is unable do it through genetics, she might as well can be able to claim one, feeding it whith sheep. Let's not forget, that Aemond claimed the dragon that belonged to her mother and that Rhaena wanted for herself. They don't even need to cut out, the Rhaenyra jealousy part. As long as she only learns that Deamon spends a lot of time alone, with a very young girl at Harrenhal and never sets eyes on Rhaena/Nettles, it's enough to maintain this specific plot point. Rhaena as Nettles, even provides an interesting parallel, with Arya time as Weasel in that castle.

I do want to say while Condal did make the Velaryons black for greater diversity it was also to make the Targaryens and Velaryons more distinctive, and probably more visually allude to the bastardy of Rhaenyra's children

The Nettles-privilege theme works of course even if we don't include "telepathy" and the whole different bonding workaround -- we could say Nettles most likely not being Valyrian means the whole "only Valyrians can bond with dragons" conventional wisdom IS BULLSHIT made up by Valyrians, to keep everybody else away from dragons and make themselves appear as though extra-special. Nettles still had to show greater merit in not growing up around any dragons, dragon-trainers or dragon lore, and still in so doing proved all people are basically the same. (That having been stipulated, making her Rhaena still detracts from the characters -- including Rhaena's canonic dragon Morning / Mourning, the Targaryens' "Dream of Spring.")

Nettles really did nothing in the story at all. Like, she took part in Battle of Gullet - as did other 3 Dragonseeds. She took part in taking of KL - with other 3 Dragonseeds, Daemon and Rhaenyra. She hunted for Aemond - with Daemon. If you cut her - all events take place no problem, you don't even need to adjust anything. Honestly cutting her, Ulf and other sidekicks is fair game.