Would absolutely love to see a graph that compares the results of the really strong climbers you guys have tested, also have you guys ever tried out any core strength metrics or shoulder strength metrics for certain kinds of moves such as gastons or compression? Also was there ever any testing with different edge sizes to see if they results hold up across different hold sizes?
I honestly thought Will would do much better than he did. Would be interesting to see the entire Mellow crew on here as well as Adam,Alex, Jakob, and a few of the top female climbers as well. Also it would be cool to have a pdf list giving a ranking of all athletes who have done this test just to see how they compare to one another and to see if we can beat their scores(like that’s even possible lol)
We'd love to have even more of the top athlete come do the test. But we currently rely on the athletes being motivated to come to Sheffield, which not everyone is. If the channel continues to be successful we might be able to bring the test to them :)
Apart from pullup strength and critical force (both which don't matter for bouldering as much), Will smashed it. He was significantly beating the average for 9b and V17 climbers. I thought he did great.
@@caedmonswanson2378 Most elite boulderers have crazy pullup strength though? Seems like almost every pro boulderer busts out one arm pullups as a warmup.
Will Bosi or the so called MR. V17 - the meen of the mean. UNPRECEDENTED - we get hardest boulder stream sessions, then we get standardized testing and metrics in a top level video edit. Cannot believe where is climbing now compared to only 10 years ago. Keep up the amazing work of keeping everyone PSYCHED beyond their mind. Will you are a beast, so well rounded it is bonkers.
These videos are so much fun. But I'm going on strike until you get Seb Bouin in. Need to see his critical force! (Might need to test it for 20 mins with him).
it would be pretty interesting to see a documentary where you share and compare all these numbers and experiences you've had with different top climbers, plus thoughts
It would be super duper cool if you did a video tour of the Lattice facility! Seems like not a particularly big space but lots of high impact training apparatus.
I have the same hand morphology issues with hangboarding. If I half crimp, my pinky is nowhere near the board and I can only use the Detroit hangboard 😅
Every time I watch one of these assessments I wonder if the athletes could perform better in the tests if done separately or in different order. E.g. the 2RM pull-up seems to always be performed after being obliterated by the Critical Force test.
This is a very valid question, we get it a lot. There are a few key things to note here; 1. We need to keep things practical for the athletes, many only have one day to visit. Multiple visits just wouldn't work for us. 2. Fatigue will have an effect but we keep the sequence of testing the same for all athletes, so the conditions stay the same and help with comparison of data. 3. This data is not being entered into a research paper so we can be more practical even if the accuracy is not as good as it could be. 4. If you are ever to do a Remote Assessment (a climbing assessment we offer the public), this is split across 3 separate days because it can be done in your own time, in your own gym.
@@LatticeTraining Completely understandable. Top athletes are super busy and even guaranteeing consistency between them is a lot. What I mean is: should we at home measure by the same standards? That 164% minimum benchmark for top athletes that Will just managed tu surpass, is it for 2RM in semi fatigued conditions like the ones he performed or for completely fresh attempts?
@@gastonmaffei yeah great point. The pull-up data in particular (not the digital test) comes from our remote assessments which are split across 3 days, so the data will be much less effected by fatigue.
Btw that 1 armer on BM 14mm that Cam does on the backround there as he gets introduced..Like since when did shit like that get normal enough that you could no-sell flex with them like that? :D I remember like 5 years ago or smth it was smth that like only Alex Megos could do :D
> Hey Will, you just climbed Burden of Dreams 9A. Let´s test your finger strength. < I´m not sure, I haven´t done much finger boarding recently... All of my thoughs to finally start training for climbing: ARE WE A JOKE TO YOU?
Have you ever had Yves Gravelle on for this test? The guy seems more of a fingerboarding and strenght athlete than climber, wonder if he could challenge the very top climbers in a test like this :D
Interesting! It would be also cool to see some of the GB competition climbers on this tests 'cause the have a whole different regime and approach to training. Like Max Milne would be perfect!
its always fascinating to me how little upper body pull strength is actually involved in climbing, even absolute freaks like will bosi are only doing ~65% bw for 2 reps
"I dropped out of Uni, but not like I went to class for two years and was like oh this is hard and bailed, I went to the first lecture and then quit" lmao
Do you do these tests in the same order with everyone? Seems a bit weird to compare someone doing pull ups after critical force to someone who does them fresh?
Yep same order. It's not ideal to do any of these test fatigued. But that's how it goes when people only visit for one day. So we keep the sequence the same for all to make comparison a bit more reliable.
yo. Could use a recommendation on how to do a "not so scientific" setup to test pressure on the hangboard. Where can I get the set up you have or could you suggest some DIY setups that one might use for a basement dweller such as myself.
As Declan said, its a sort of extrapolation. We take a lot of the data from V12-V15 and model for the V17 climber. Unless something really strange happens at that level it's a good estimate. Will's test seem to suggest the model is about right haha.
Since I am doing research on that broad topic aswell, I would be really interested if there are gender- and/or age-dependent changes in where high-end athletes perform the best? Might be difficult to say though due to the changes between boulderers and climbers?
Would be interested in knowing thoughts about measuring peak force with a 90 degree arm bend vs straight armed. From the limited testing ive done with athletes it appears that most are able to pull much more when straight armed. Is there value in measuring both?
And how much of that difference is due to the straight arm puts you in a better position to have gravity help your pull force of direction. ( Not sure if that is the perfect description in physics)
Would love to test Sharma. I don't think he'd be interesting in coming to Sheffield though. Maybe we need a big world tour to test all the best climbers ;)
Wouldn’t you need to test people a number of times in order to get a true mean of their stats? Single day testing could be skewed based on any number of factors couldn’t it? (How you feel that day, etc….)
Yes this is true. But the key thing here is we not are collecting data for a research study. We are testing athletes that drop in for a single day and may not return for months. So we need to keep things practical, low burden, so that it works for the athletes (even if not ideal for data collection). We've done research to validate the CF method, you can search for Dave Giles (our lead researcher) for these papers.
@@LatticeTraining yeah, no, I completely trust you guys and the job you’re doing. I’m just saying that athletes who look at these numbers should probably look at them with a grain of salt and understand that there are a number of reasons that single day numbers could skew so they’re not necessarily indicative of true strength, but more a baseline. I didn’t mean any offense
Really interesting to see how these metrics change for different types of training cycles. Makes me appreciate the fragile balance that olympic climbers have to maintain to stay at the top. Hopefully lead and bouldering are their own events in the future.
We ask the athletes to be rested, yes. Adherence to this is not strictly monitored and "rest" is subjective. But we try our best and these results are not going to be published in a research paper.
Stefano Vs Will = 117% v 121% Finger Strength & 65.4% V 40.9% CF. Stefano is on much better form for routes, Will for boulders. Which likely reflects in their climbing recently.
@@LatticeTraining How does that 4% translate to max expected bouldering grade? And what kind of route shape was Will in when he was tested at 45%? Would you expect that stefano could add 5% to the finger strength at the expense of critical force?
@@primeangel 146 pounds seems heavy for I'm guessing 5'10 at most. But with a clean one rep max of 45kg/100lb (Maybe 110 performed first) let's say.... this proves that his well-rounded finger strength in all grip types in more important than his upper body strength or power output. He didn't claim to do any finger boarding. However, he has shown some impressive 6 mm and 8 mm strength (Weighted) at half crimp on his insta, which you can not build by just climbing. Bosi understand climbing mechanics and what works best better than anyone in the game. I hope he takes it to the next level. What's amazing is I don't think he is doing this by campusing and insanely weighted pull-ups.
To play a bit of devil's advocate: do we really need another feats of strength video? Are we just all voyeurs now? Is this what gets us psyched, just hours in the gym hanging off an edge? Should it not be doing rad shit at the cliff, having good laughs with friends, and/or giving back to the community? Don't get me wrong. Will is a machine and seemingly a nice human. Let's learn more about the latter and give the training bit a rest. Climbing is (or at least should be) much more than gym training.
Not so impressiv He was standing with one foot on the ground and not able to hold the crimp free and a pull up with 40 or 50 kg is doable for an average climber. This strength is far away from Moon or Moffatt, they also had much more tension. This power is enough for V7 and does not explain the V12 or more. Made unfortunatly the experience that climber use an extrem glue while bouldering and climbing.
I'm curious, have you always done the Maximum Voluntary Contraction test before the Rate of Force Development? It was always my understanding that you'll lose your ability to produce power/explosiveness before you lose your top end strength within a single workout, though I don't think it's really been studied. I also wonder if post activation potentiation (PAP) has an effect on the RFD test. Since it has the potential to temporarily increase both RFD and MVC and you take the highest values for both parameters, it seems that the RFD results may be higher than what would be displayed on the wall. This means your MVC reading may be more representative of expected performance, while the RFD would have an acute performance boost from the PAP. Overall PAP needs more thorough and specific research, but I wonder if it could be leveraged by people who are climbing at their limit. The last paragraph of the article below suggests to me that a relatively intense "warm up" could be used to boost performance on at least a few hard sends. bjsm.bmj.com/content/38/4/386