@@TrustMeIKnowEverything your comment implies ivey plays J6o for value in cash games. LOL. it's an easy call. the times phil has it - so be it, it's a +EV call.
Ivey literally plays Matusow here and not the cards. His hand is kinda face-up when he does such a small valuebet on the river imo. It basicly asks for a lower flush to pay him off. Its a great play by Ivey.
it wasn't a small value bet. It was nearly half the pot. Which is a decent size value bet. M ind you it's not 3/4 pot or more. A small value bet would be like anywhere from 5k-12k at the time he made the 15k bet.
@@tiamat87 yea but he is trying to properly bet size and get a call. He clearly wasn't ready or expecting a raise. Otherwise he would have eithered bet more or checked behind.
I think it was a really bad bet from Matusow on the river. A check back seems like the much safer play. But I would've liked to see this without knowing Ivey's cards. Not knowing what he had, I think Matusow made the right lay down. Ivey easily has Ax of clubs. But then again, he was priced in pre-flop, so he could have any 2?? I guess with Ivey calling from the straddle, Matusow puts him on a super wide range, and that's why he folded. Still, for me it was a definite check back on the river.
I remember this hand, Mike had ivey on a pair of 7's or a jack 7, If you listen to it closely at one point he says pocket or pair of seven's, showing that mike at least thought it was possible for Phil to have the fullhouse.. the reality is that his Phil caught on his lack of confidence in the hand and in his play, and exploited it to victory.
Folding the 2nd nut flush on a 4 flushed, paired board, facing a decent sized raise on the river from one of the greatest poker players in history is the worst laydown ever to you?
To be honest, his bet sizing on the river gave Ivy the chance to bluff. The check on the turn should've taken both the ace and the full house off the table.
Considering Ivey checked the turn and river, you can’t give him credit for the Ace of clubs. And if Ivey had trips or a boat on the turn, we would’ve heard from him. Great bluff by Ivey, bad fold by Matusow. Also if Mike bets the turn, which he should have, Ivey immediately gets out
''Considering Ivey checked the turn and river, you can’t give him credit for the Ace of clubs'' Certainly can give him credit for it, given that's how he'd play it if he had it. ''And if Ivey had trips or a boat on the turn, we would’ve heard from him'' Wrong again, if he had trips or a boat, he'd slow play it in this spot and just check it. ''Also if Mike bets the turn, which he should have, Ivey immediately gets out'' Wrong again, depends how much matusow bets. You're brand new to all this aren't you?
@@danielseaburg9763 I would agree Ivey is capable of slow playing a monster hand or bluffing with air. Which is why I think Matusow would have been better to try and buy his way out of the hand before the river, and not end up in the situation he ended up in.
@@magichobbiest3425no other full house would have checked the turn and you cant really give someone especially on this board for quads i think thso guy summed it up pretty well. But of course this all is probably impossible to think when you are playing Ivey lol
Mike should've checked back if he wasn't going to go for it. I think phil woulda semi bluffed the turn with the Ac, i know i can see the cards but ida called.
So, just a guess here, but I think Ivey would’ve check-folded here on the river if it weren’t for Mike’s body language on the river. Ivey is a soul reader, & Mike’s body language screamed weakness. & not the kind where someone was pretending to be weak. His weakness looked genuine. The slumped over posture, the fact that he just had the look of “I have an overpair, I have to bet this” look. He didn’t even want to put that $15K out there on the river, just felt he had to. I don’t think he was ever expecting the check-raise, though. & that’s another reason why Ivey’s move there on the river is so brilliant.
The fact that its a cash game and not a tournament makes a difference here on Mike folding....now, these big pots are more standard but back in THIS day they happened less frequently on the telly. Mike was so close to figuring it out but in the end, too nervous going up against Ivy. Me personally, I make the call but not because I'm a great poker player more because I just stubbornly believe he had it...that is, until he DOES.
This is why Garrett outplayed him too on Hustler stream live Matasow raises preflop is I'm sure most of you know and Garrett had to call a pretty good-sized bet about 4,000 or so but they were fairly deep and then he absolutely outplayed matusow who played his pocket aces like garbage had no clue where he was at in the hand and Min raises and then ends up calling the all-in what a fish in cash games. The best thing about the hand is when Phil Hellmuth berates Garrett for making the call preflop with his 67 suited and talk s*** because he backed matusow LOL
He has the 4 blocking his opponent having extra combinations of pocket 4’s, which would be an automatic call from his opponent, making this bluff an easier bluff than it looks.
Madison can't beat way more than the fours full of jacks. Personally I don't think that's what his fear was or at least not the primary concern. Madison couldn't beat anything the Ace of clubs a Jack pockets, pocket 7 pocket 4s, 4J. J7. He was toast if Ivey had anything.
What did mike think phil was going to do with the $15 g river bet ? Call ? If he has Ac he doesn't call, if he has boat he don't call, maybe trip jaks i guess but man check back if you aint going through with it! Hey i know i can see the cards but 1st of all i check the river and 2nd it wouldn't be the first time ive lost in that situation, i call everytime !
The commentators are right. 95% of the times ivey goes like 80% pot on each street if he has it, he doesn't waste time if he feels his opponent strong. I remove 4's and 6's from the range cause with a draw on the flop he doesn't just smooth call, is Ivey Style. He would have raised to stack Matusow since he bets on 2 players vero often just when he has it. So the raise on the river makes no sense for me, the only hand would have been A4 off with the A of clubs but i think ivey fold that preflop or 7's very few times. j's is not an option and QJ qith the Q of clubs doesn't raise the river for value. A's with the A of clubs doesn't just call the flop. I don't find a single hand except 7's that has K high flush beat in that spot. If it was me it was a crying call, whenever he shows me bluff or nuts.
Finally I read an analysis that makes sense. Something to keep in mind is what Ivey is putting Mike on. If he had 44 or 66, he's either betting out or check raising. 77 could float that flop, if he thinks Mike has AK. It's not an easy call, as Phil could have 77 or got tricky/stubborn with an Ac or Axc, but I think it's a call.
Yea exactly. I think if anyone else made that bet mike wouldve called. He just got in his own head. Ivey cant really ever have the ace of clubs and the only boat is 77s (maybe j7 but like you said he would be raising with a j). on the other hand though, ivey has very few bluffs. Very strange hand
Matusow gave Ivey the opening of representing an Ace of Clubs when said he didn’t remember what he had - 3:05. Matusow wouldn’t have forgetten if he had an Ace
getting almost 2 to 1 on the call.. 37 to win 104.. and you have way more than 35% Equity here it's probably half the time he's bluffing horrible fold Ivy knew he would..
So to calculate the equity you add the call size to the pot.. which makes it 141 divided by 37 which means you have 26 pct eq.. so when you call you can be wrong three times as long as you're right one time just to break even and if he's bluffing half the time then you have to call every single time to show a profit easycall
@@georgejung5429 Equity is different from pot odds when you're trying to figure out your Equity it's a little bit harder you have to put the other person on a range of hands and then add your bet to the pot divide by 100 so.. if a hand is getting about 3 to 1 which is what Matasow is getting here right he has to call 37 to win 104.. so if he's one time in four he breaks even if he's right once out of three times he absolutely Priints money.. because in three tries he would lose 37 twice and win 104 the third time
Generally check raising consist of a lot of nutted hands. 3 things Matusow needs to consider here to make this a fairly easy call. 1. The value bet on river by Mike is small so that can induce a bluff. 2. Mike knows that Phil knows he has a tight image so he will try to push him around with a high frequency. 3. Last but most important it checked around on the turn. Will Phil Ivey ever check raise in that spot with ace of clubs or full house, knowing that Mike very well might check back if he has made hand with no clubs. For example with a hand like KK without a club.
Everything you said is correct, except not at this level. If Phil flopped trips, of course he checkes the turn same with AJ with the ace being a club. People really get stuck on thinking everyone is playing the modern coaching, chart reading standard grinding Doug Polk image. They don't, the greatest players are already ahead of the curve being taught now, already dated and predictable because everyone knows the same moves.
@@johnforster6030 your comment suggest you didn’t get the point i was trying to make. Of course Phil can still check the turn with ace of clubs or a set on turn , but when it is checked back on turn by Mike , Phil has to think of value betting the river because it can very well go check check on river again and not getting any value on the river. Check raising will be a very uncommon line in that particular spot . And I am not even talking about Morden theories just common sense. Even at the highest level sticking to some poker fundamentals is absolutely necessary. And Ofcourse Phil Ivey is very capable of any crazy check raise move in that spot but the frequency of that is very very low.
@@rocky2324rocky I fully understand what your point was, as you say betting the river out of position in indeed standard after the checked turn, the point I'm struggling to make to you is this is an elite level, higher level of thinking . Your arguement that Phil is capable of a check raise bluff can only hold any weight if Phil's range can consist of checking a monster in this position. Also making a crying call for $37 ,$370 or even $3700 Is a world of difference to $37k . It wasn't meant to be rude but all 3 points you make were 100% correct but my point being they are correct for modern standard break down of hands, the ivey's and dwan's of this world have much more advanced ranges of play. More importantly have a far greater ability to get away from hands/situations that we could not. Mike makes a read, it's wrong but probably long run profitable
Tough call ivey repping a number of hands all beating mouths 2 pair a jack ace of clubs full house . Could have checked and took the pot also ivey played on this as well thinking he was trapping
You know what I have spent hours watching these players and a lot of them are multi millionaires, if they were playing for the last penny in their pocket, maybe we would not see as much bravado.
not quite. Ivey plays a wide range. Just consider how many hands beat him. Any pair 4, 6, 7. J7 and any connected Ace. Also, it was heads up with low dynamic. Ivey couldve seen the river with any of those hands. The thing is he played it very standard for a high pocket. Ivey read that.
@@larrylucid5502 ya but he already put 15 in there on the bet. It was only another 37 to call into a pot of over 100k. Sometimes you just gotta play the math
Its easy to bully guys who are playing way over their heads or being backed by others......which Mike is both.....,No way you bet the river there if you are folding to a raise
Why? There was absolutely 0% chance Mike was raising and every single person, including Mike, knew this. David calling the hand had no effect on the outcome, nor did it kill any potential action. Then on top of that, Mike basically revealed his hand with the comment made to Hellmuth about it being the same hand he folded to Phil's 27 bluff on HSP. Everyone knew about that hand and Mike saying this reveals he actually really wanted the table to know what he had and why he was struggling with it.
There are certain hands you need to play even if you're nearly certain you will lose. If you fold those hands, you end up being Mike Matusow in this video.....shark bait. Matusow isn't shark bait because of this hand, he was shark bait because he convinced himself in the past that nobody runs as badly as he does.
Yeah he does carry a stigma of like a loser even though I know he probably wins at poker but some of his plays are just terrible he's almost getting 3 to 1 to call the river Ivy's bluffing at least half the time...when he played Garrett on live at the bike he got so owned when Garrett called his Big Raise pre with 67 suited flopped the nuts and matusow Min raises the turn and commits himself on the hand with pocket aces..
Solid play by Ivey but awful fold by Mike. Even though he's entertaining, he's not anywhere near as good a player in my view as Ivey. I don't see any scenario where Ivey checks the Ace of clubs on the river. I think Benyamine's comment may have messed up Mike though.
I am not particularly a fan of Matusow's game but this fold is perfectly reasonable. Matusow is not going to have very many bluffs at this small sizing, so this is probably one of the worst hands that he would be betting. When Ivey raises, Mike has to have some folds and this is a perfectly reasonable hand to bet-fold. Ivey picks a good hand to bluff with blocking 44 and AcAs, two hands in Matusow's continue range, and nothing in Matusow's bet-fold range.
Bet folding a flush like K hi here is a huge waste of hand value, if you are scared of a checkraise in this position, its a clear check down, since all that last bet on the river does for you is value cutting a good hand with no incent to win a bigger pot.
@@kristoffernilsson6043 totally agree but the phrase "if you are scared of a checkraise" is doing all the work here. of course you're not going to bet thin for value if you think you are going to get checkraised. so obviously Matusow thought it was unlikely he would be checkraised. Was he right? We don't know. It's possible he was wrong because we don't know what Ivey's range looks like here and maybe he would checkraise a lot!. But he chooses one of his best bluffing hands, so it's also possible he only has very few checkraises here
I think this is the WORST fold here, and not the best bluff. Mutsow should know that the only things beatig him are the nut flush (one ace) or a full house. And it wasn't even for all his chips. I would've called.
It wasn't so much as a good bluff when the person he is bluffing does dumb shit like Mouth did , why would you fold that hand when the odds of Ivey having either an Ace of clubs or a full house or even a straight flush is very very unlikely, that was a very dumb fold.
This was from around 12-14 years ago... back in the 'olden days of televised poker they usually only showed how much money a player had in front of them and rarely ever covered (if at all) the "real numbers" stats like VPIP, buy in, profit/loss, preflop raise, etc. But I know what you mean: watching Season 8 of High Stakes Poker I really didn't care if so and so had 700K in front of him and that guy had 550K... what mattered more was how much they were up or down and PokerGO rarely ever talked about that.
