Jocko Podcast 316: High Stakes Push-Back and Accountability. W/ Stuart Scheller 

Hackworth confronted and outed military hypocrisy in 1971 and was crucified for it. Scheller confronted and outed military hypocrisy in 2020 and was also crucified for it. I believe Jocko reaching out and giving Scheller a voice honors Hackworth's legacy.

I love how fired up Stuart still is. Don't stop the fight, brother. We are still in the great conflict of our time and we need people like you.

LtCol Your a outstanding human being and a STELLAR MARINE!! I’m a 03 Marine Vet and I assure you sir that there IS NOT ONE veteran that I know who disagrees with you or looks down on what you’ve done and are doing. SEMPER FI & STAY DANGEROUS☮️

As a 51 yr old Marine Corps Gulf War Vet, every Vet and current active enlisted Marine I know, support Stu Scheller!

Very glad to see Stuart Scheller on. We still don't have accountability.

The marines snipers being sent into Irag in 06 from the 24th MEU he spoke of were sent into Ramadi at its height. I didn’t realize it until now, but I deployed with Scheller in 06.

One of the best Jocko Podcasts ever. Stuart Scheller is a modern day Hackworth which is why it is so fitting for Jocko to have him on.

This is, IMO, one of the most impactful episodes for this podcast. The frustration in Stuart Scheller is palpable. There is a lot that this great American warrior has to process but it is also sad to see that we have lost such a solid leader in our Marine Corps Infantry. More like him are definitely needed in the O-5/O-6 ranks.

Stuart I evacuated Beruit with you in 06, I used the orient Queen cruise ship with 13 other Marines, took 1000 civilians at a shot to Cyprus, did 6 trips. Got the call for that while in Bahrain with a Centcom anti terrorist react platoon. Then Fallujah in late 2006

Scheller lives by the ethos all military strive to be if more Americans were like him we wouldn't be where we are in this country some of us have morals and principles. True hero. Thanks scheller

It was disappointing other officers didn’t have the balls to stand up..hopefully now as he moves forward positive changes can be made. Thanks for standing with him Jocko

"I always worked out, sometimes I worked out and drinked." The most Marine thing that could be said.

The unforgivable sin: demanding accountability from the "leaders."

Thank you for having him on Jocko. As a retired Marine it answered a lot of questions about him for me.

Stuart will always be a legend to me. Wish I could do more to support the guy. I'm just a construction worker from a small town.

Accountability is everything.

2 1/2 hrs into the podcast and I suddenly remember Echo's in the room

Marine mindset at its finest: "I swim across the water, get to the shore, I start making rope bridges so guys can shimmy over...We have a soilder going down stream because he let go. On the iComs the Taliban are maneuvering on us. Our last vehicle in the patrol let us know the soilder just went by. We are about to be attacked, this is getting messy real quick." Jocko: This is a little beyond getting messy...this is horrible... "Yeah...and so we got air support denied..."

Why are there so few views on this podcast? Seriously? Anyone associated with DoD needs to listen to this because he is absolutely right about the larger implications of this lack of accountability. He fell on his sword to bring light to this tragedy that has unfolded over the last 20 years. If we don’t learn from this we WILL lose the next big war…

As a civie that has never served, this podcast has brought me the humility I needed as an American. My day-to-day problems are nothing in regards to the likes of our service members.

For someone to care enough about this planet and give up something huge deserves to be digitally recorded forever to share. Congrats jkopod 316 well done.

This guy is a leader, a badass, a patriot & he has all my respect. And I give a lot of credit to Jocko for having him on the podcast because as much as I totally respect Jocko and he’s everything that the American warfighter should be (and leader of warfighters), but generally he toes the company line and doesn’t usually have people on that pushes back hard against the commands and the system. He’s pretty much stayed away from those that have gotten into big trouble with the military. So the fact that he has this guy on the podcast has made me respect him that much more. Leaders hold other leaders accountable. Good job by both of these American heroes

He should be reinstated with full pension and our political leaders and generals should do an Infantry tour to live what they are sending our troops into!!!!

I did 4 tours in iraq in a recon effort. Very kinetic environments. In 2006 I was wounded in muqdadiyah diyala province. It's funny but not really how we promise of families that we will do more during work ups, like paint house textile floors ect. Needless to say I was solid in combat and sucked at home. I also missed the birth of my daughter in 2008 during the surge in baghdad. I can relate to all this stuff, how we experienced the same shit in combat and at home. God bless fellas.

This is the podcast EVERYONE wanted.

Is there a transcript of this podcast. Total respect for Lt Col Stu Scheller!

Thank you so much for having Scheller on here! Semper FI Sir! I was with Charlie Co 1/2 in Nasiriyah in March of 2003.

It's very commendable to have him on the podcast! Great job! As an former enlisted soldier, I fully agree with Lt. Col about upper military leadership failing the men and country. It is refreshing to see an officer that's willing to put his butt on the line! I'd follow him...

Thanks for giving LTC Scheller the chance to walk thru his career and what ended it. Major respect after spending my afternoon listening to this entire podcast. Great interaction, pacing, questions, reactions and genuine respect. Outstanding point calling out insurgency doctrine and policy.

Col Scheller is a righteous dude. I can't say the same for his command structure.

I watched the entire podcast, it was very interesting. As a former Marine Corps Officer myself, watching the events unfold in Afghanistan was very upsetting to say the least. Few thoughts in the context of Jocko's books (Extreme Ownership, The Dichotomy of Leadership and Leadership, Strategy & Tactics): 1) I'm glad that in one of his videos he criticized all FOUR administrations for their mistakes over the years. Recency bias can influence us, but the reality is it took 4 administrations to get us to this point. He demanded accountability / ownership from senior leaders - both past and present. 2) Jocko is big on NOT making decisions when you're emotional. LtCol Scheller was very emotional about Afghanistan, and understandably so. But to post those videos when he was emotional was a bad idea. 3) Jocko is also big on NOT digging in. When you dig in, then you cannot maneuver anymore. LtCol Scheller dug in and had no ability to maneuver. 4) LtCol Scheller did not consult any mentors, peers, his CO, and not even his wife about his intent to take on this massive risk. I can't wrap my head around that. His wife stood by him for 17+ years, through all the moves, deployments, long hours, etc. and he didn't even think maybe he should consult her. That was shocking. 5) Very disappointing to hear about how some of his colleagues and Public Affairs treated him (i.e. the one who started texting him posing as a friend, and then bringing screenshots to the trial). That's brutal. 6) LtCol Scheller wound up losing more than he gained. He lost his career. He voluntarily lost his benefits. He lost his marriage. Was it worth all the stress he put himself and his family through?

I like that Jocko is quite capable of giving us a thoughtful and informed critical analysis and does so, demonstrating a level of objectivity without being offensive or intimidated. True leadership.

An honor to have served with you Sir. Enlisted guys always have a negative perception of "new officers". I'm glad you were open and honest, I also knew nothing of the Marines til I joined.

Stuart is a true Marine, a man of honor & integrity.

Thank you Jocko for having this patriot on the podcast. Can’t deny this man’s ability to take Extreme Ownership.

I Got out of the Army in 97 after doing 6.5 years because of an incident that happened there at Ft. Campbell Some soldiers got hurting killed because the Brigade co failed to follow Procedure by calling in EOD when a young Lt. lost a grenade on a live fire range. There is a lot of failure to take responsibility at high levels .

Outstanding individual. Need more of him in congress

48:45 yes… agree. My uncle was also involved in delivering duffel bags full of cash and it never seemed to sit right. Glad he talked about this and how conflicted he felt about it.

It’s easy to Monday morning quarterback the way he handled things, but this was very insightful. I was kind of surprised to see Jocko have him on.

Probably my favorite episode in a long time. Scheller is a hero and I'll forever respect him for drawing his line in the sand at what ever cost. He's an example to all of us to stop being a follower and start leading by example.

My impression before watching is that this guy is a great American. Can't wait to hear what his thoughts are.

I would love to see many other officers speak out and support Scheller. Damn shame there has not been more!

Thank you @Jocko for providing a wider voice for Stuart and allowing people to hear the history. By all accounts from friends and other Marines, He is as solid as it gets. I am sorry it has come to this but I am thankful for how strong he is and how strong he has stood. Support is there for Stu and the community at large wants to help him carry forward because of his bravery and integrity.

It’s an honor to hear this young man tell his story. We are weaker as a nation without him but far more importantly, the young Americans currently serving do so without the training, wisdom, and ultimate protection a man such as this provides. Good leaders are hard to find and expensive to educate. Can’t imagine how the Marines have benefited from throwing this man away.

Mad respect for Stu. Thanks for having him on. America is lucky to have people like him

Stuart is a national hero ! So refreshing to see somebody in a position of leadership, that is willing to speak the truth regardless of the outcome. Principle over personal gain. And good God almighty,, Stuart has paid such a price for his courageous stand.I hope and pray that he continues to speak out. Courageous leadership like this is a rare find in today's world

Lt Col Scheller took a stand for what was right and what was just for the members of the United States military. Furthermore his call to action and accountability were in the best interest of readiness of our Armed Forces.

Not certain I agree with everything he seems to stand for, but the guys got a spine of steel. Seems to be morally sound and mission focussed.

Loved every second of this podcast. Was great to hear from him and his story. Nothing but respect for that man.

I was a corpsman at the school of infantry and then g 2/4 in the early 90s. Learned to love the Marine Corp and loved being a corpman with the Marines. I find this so disgusting what the Marines allowed to happen to this officer. This is just one more tragic chapter to the whole Afghanistan debacle. Worst of all he lost his marriage.

Best interview ever! Scheller's superpower is his honor and his convictions. This is what a man is supposed to be, and this is what a leader is supposed to be. I have seen men who talk-the-talk, and walk-the-walk to a certain extent, but Scheller walks-the-walk all the way. What I mean by this is, most men will talk-the-talk and walk-the-walk right up to the edge of personal cost. When personal cost is on the horizon most men will back down. Scheller has never had it in him to back down. If Scheller had been in General McKenzie's shoes (at about 3:11:30 ) he would have either convinced the National Security Council or he really would have resigned rather than continue with a halfass plan that he knew was ineffective and dangerous. I am making my son listen to this interview with me because I want to talk to him about how important it is to do what's right and to have convictions that you aren't willing to negotiate on. The world needs more Stuart Schellers. Thank you for the interview.

As an active duty Air Force air traffic controller, without taking a bullet that I know of Stu Schiller is a hero in my mind

Thank you for having him on. When I saw his post I felt like he was speaking for all of us on the outcome of this disastrous withdrawal!

The infiltration of politics, especially leftist politics, into the military was one of the major reasons I rejected my ROTC scholarship and opportunity to join the Academy with my other JROTC classmates after HS. Now almost a decade later I have zero regrets; you don't need to be part of an increasingly corrupt and subverted chain-of-command to learn the skills they offer in the armed forces.

Lt. Col. Scheller.. THE Definition Of "No Good And Right Deed Will Go UnPunished."

This was a phenomenal interview and I respect LTC Schellers sacrifices. He is a true leader and such people are needed desperately to fix our country in turmoil.

“Idk if this organization cares about me as much as I care about it?” Powerful question. The MC likes to push the propaganda of a band of brothers with tight camaraderie, but no one treats Marines worse than Marines. The military has changed and is extremely hypocritical. These “commanders” and senior leaders who enforce the UCMJ and good order and discipline are guilty of the same crimes that they charge and relieve their Marines of. No one is morally clean in the MC, everyone does shit behind the scenes. Literally it’s an organization of don’t get caught.

Agree woth him or not. Dude served. And gave alot. Stood up. And owned it

Frosting: 2 tablespoons butter, softened 3 cups powdered sugar 1 teaspoon vanilla 1 tablespoon half and half

When you asked Stuart after explaining how you were so rebellious and Stuart never really had a rebellious point, until that moment. The first thing that came to mind was the saying about “when good men do nothing”. Stuart determined to do … something .. If only more people took that step..

Thanks for having Stuart on the podcast! I don't actually get much news coming in to me these days as I just don't care to waste my time with social or main stream media. With the pandemic there is enough going on in each of our own lives. I am willing to pay 3 hours of my time to listen to a real break down of the situation than to pay 10 minutes of my time looking at bullshit on popular media platforms. Not saying you are my news outlet, I just wanted to convey that I value my time and that listening to your interview is something I consider as valuable!

You always seem to have the best guest on your show Jocko. You always cover the real issues that military guys and girls are thinking about. You're the man!

I truly believe we need more Americans whom exemplify the value of accountability in all organizations. Our government and the armed forces can only get better if we/they can be introspective. Like Stuart says, he is a realist and being able to accept where the current situation lines up is a great quality. It hurts peoples feelings, it makes people angry, it bucks the system. But it doesn’t make the issue any less serious or the situation any less serious. In this occurrence people died and on one hand that is what a Armed Forces personnel know could happen. But those actions need accountability and Ownership. Thank you Jocko for keeping that in the lense.

Dude "Falling Down" Michael Duglas lost his job with a Arms manufacturer and wife left him. They portrayed him as a push over . I respect Mr Stuart for standing behind what he believed. I agree with him 100 percent. I do feel like this war we just got out of will present it self again and if we don't change SOP and the tactics we used then history will repeat it self. This was an awesome episode and I'm glad he had the balls to stand behind what he believed.

Thank you Jocko for having Lt. Col Scheller's six. Extreme Ownership Roger That 👍🏻 Hooyah and Siempre Fi 🙏🏻

Can't wait to listen to this tonight. Keep it coming

Jacko OUTSTANDING interview! What a Patriot, should have been a General! This man has the BALLS the size bowling balls! I am so proud of this Patriot it gives me HOPE for our Country. Now people get out and vote, because our future depends on it !

I was in ITB Charlie company in January 2009 . I was 0311 in 2D LAR Alpha Company I deployed during the surge in December in Afghanistan, Helmand province . The battle of Marjah I was in , I’m pretty sure we crossed path when I was young marine in ITB .

I was wanting for this Man on this podcast. Thanks. Respect from Romania.

Remember kids, the military is a job. Your branch doesn't love you. They only care about you as far as a owner cares for its property. Do your job well, care for those around you, mentor when and if you can. Above all else, don't let a JOB change who you fundamentally are. Give the military what it gives you, nothing more.

These two men have done more good for people than the entire swamp. This is the kind of leadership/guidance and representation this nation needs.

Scheller is doing what more people should. We all should hold our leaders accountable. Leaders aren't exempt from their mistakes.

"If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken twisted by knaves to lay a trap for fools"- Rudyard Kipling. This Marine was right in his assessment and i wish him success in his endeavors.

GNARLY. Awesome episode. Props to you Jocko for having him on.

It's one thing to hear about historical events way after everything is said and done... completely different, when history is made in front of your eyes!

Man…thank you for doing this. So thankful you got him.

Glad to see him here!

The leadership today in our military is more about “me” and what I can get or how I can move up I rank; rather than actually leading troops and truly caring about them. Also, just taking accountability and that has to start from the top. That is not happening.

I’m confident that Stuart’s voice will be remembered by history as the voice of a patriot. And I will tell you my son will not fight for this nation until people with Stuart’s convictions have taken reign of America’s military might. Accountability. Thank you for your service Stuart.

I’ll vote for this dude all day!

This is one of the best podcast shows jock has done

Strength and Honour. Fortune favors the strong.... Level up, own it, get some ... Thank you gentlemen

Many are called. Few are chosen. I'm very proud of you Mr Scheller. What you did impacted me on a very deep level. Been praying for you ever since. God Bless. Thank you Mr.Jocko and Mr. Charles. Sincerely

So thankful for podcasts like this to get the side of the story the MSM can't or WON'T show.

SCHELLER FOR 2024...!!!!

That jerk that shared your texts with the command investigation is a spineless tool. Would love to meet him someday

You are an honorable man Stu! The world needs more men like you.

I'm always humbled when I watch/listen to this podcast. Most of us civilians take too much for granted, that needs to stop. I'm grateful for men like this who try to follow what they believe is right even when it's not popular.

I was hoping this podcast would happen. Thank you gentlemen. Respect to you both, two good officers here.

Outstanding

This man is an absolute hero in my book not just by the usual standards of a war fighter, Career military… BUT because he did what no one else was willing to do, I firmly believe history will remember him fondly & we will absolutely refer back 2 his demand 4 accountability as a reminder of not only one of America’s greatest failures BUT also our leaders repeat of history in refusing accountability & sweeping it all under the rug, I’ve never been so ashamed of my country’s choices but this man reminded me that there are still men of character & principles willing to die on there sword

Stay The Course Stu !

When you’re stuck at work and desperately wanting to hear this podcast, but can’t until you’re off 🙃

A very important podcast. Excellent conversation.

Thank you to every single STRONG man standing up for rights of others! Mr Schuller thank you for your incredible service including the most important attention you brought to this matter.

The operation that he’s talking about at 1:01:37 I was the EOD team on that operation. That was July 3rd/4th of 2010. That resupply was to FOB Tillman. That shit was absolute chaos. Ran many missions with Sheller! Outstanding Marine!

I think we all need to praise him for what he did right and accept what he did wrong. When I was in the service you could almost always speak up to authority, but you HAD to do it the right way, and if you slipped on that part, you had BETTER DAMNED WELL BE RIGHT ABOUT WHAT YOU’RE SAYING. He went too far off the reservation when it comes to the ‘how’ and it subtracted from what was right about his point. The USMC and senior leadership… they BLEW THIS far more than Scheller did, and that is what really needs to change here. I feel bad for Scheller and his wife. Prayers for them both.

Love Scheller's linkedin experience updated from Oct' 2021-Dec' 2021 - "Transitioning Officer Under a Gag Order" haha good for you man! Love this

Thank you Jocko Willink for bringing the true stories of these true American heros to the public. God bless you, God bless all first responders, God bless our Great Military and all out Veterans amen 🙏

So glad Jocko had Scheller on 🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲