Kareem’s seasons that Michael Jordan haters ARE HIDING FROM YOU 

They will never be another skyhook the way Kareem Abdul-Jabbar threw it with the magnificence and grace of a ballet dancer

Kareem is number 2 for me. MJ is #1. Jordan forever changed the game, and how it was played. Everyone wanted to be like Mike.

Jordan is the goat. Period.

Lebron couldn’t even make playoffs with expanded playoff format and now the newly created play-in tournament saved him from another miss

PEOPLE QUICK TO HOLLA JORDAN WITHOUT PIPPEN BUT THEY DONT SAY BIRD WITHOUT MCHALE PARRISH MAGIC WITHOUT KAREEM RUSSELL WITHOUT HAVLICEK COUSY WILT WITHOUT WEST BAYLOR AND ON AND ON😳

I think in the 70's most of us thought the Dr. J was the better player. But perhaps it's just that he was so much fun to watch.

LeBron never would have the scoring record without the 3 point line. If LeBron played the same years as Kareem, he'd be well behind Kareem still because there was no 3 point line the first several years of his career. There was no going to the NBA out of high school then, and once Kareem was with the Lakers, he was one of FOUR offensive options. If Kareem was the MAIN option instead of their BEST option in a half court offense, who knows how many more points he would have scored. Plus, how many times did the Showtime Lakers score on their fast break before Kareem even made it back to the offensive side? And bringing Malone into the discussion, as good as he is, is a joke, because the whole point of the Jazz was to feed Malone as much as possible. Again, Kareem was only one of MANY offensive weapons the Showtime Lakers had. Just think how many points he would have scored if Kareem was as integral to the Showtime Laker offense as Jordan was to the early Bulls, or Malone to the Jazz or LeBron for whoever he was playing for at the time. Malone didn't have a Worthy/Wilkes and a Byron Scott to siphon off points. I'll be honest, I haven't followed basketball that closely in LeBron's time, but I doubt he's played very many, if any seasons with teams as stacked as the Showtime Lakers were. If Kareem had played straight out of high school, that would have been FOUR more years of him being in the NBA, in theory, anyway.

Kareem Abdul Jabbar won in high school,college and the pros.

Going to the finals is one thing. Winning the finals is a whole other thing. Lebron has SIX finals losses and 22-23 in finals games overall. Lebron is a perfect example of quantity over quality and Jordan is a perfect example of quality over quantity. I’d rather go to the finals six times and win all six of them earning FMVP for every single one rather than make it to the finals ten times and only winning four. If we are being real about it he should only have two rings because if it wasn’t for Ray Allen and Kyrie Irving he would of had two more losses to his finals résumé. Like the old heads say it doesn’t mean a thing until you have that ring. Kobe, Duncan, Shaq, Hakeem, Bird, Russell, Kareem, Magic, Curry, and many more players have way better finals records and always won more than not.

It's funny, that recently the Curry vs Magic debate, people will point out that the Lakers were stacked, and also had Worthy (1st overall) in '82 on top of all of that. But all of that winning in the '80s boosted Kareem's career the most. He wasn't drafted by the Lakers. Kareem was gifted playing on team that would land two 1st overall picks in 3 years, not to mention some pretty good talent around him before Magic even arrived; Nixon, Wilkes, and Dantley isn't exactly chopped liver. All that was missing was the person who could stir the drink; which wasn't Kareem.

What about when Kareem got hurt in the 80’s finals in game six and missed game 7? Magic played all five positions and said never fear Magic is here and beat Dr.J and the 76ers. Jamaal Wilkes had a great game too. But what Magic did as a rookie is str8 spectacular that was a phenomenal performance by the Magic Man.

1976 kareem was the only man to be top 1 in every major metric. This has never been done before or after. He was statistically the best ever

Center is a dependent position and his performance is dependent on guard play especially in that era.

They also conveniently omit the first 6 or 7 years of his career was before the merge of NBA and ABA where he wasn't facing all of the top talent in the country. But they knock Mike for 4 expansion teams in the 90s. But Orlando Miami and Charlotte were actually good early.

The whole GOAT debate really is kind of dumb because basketball is a 5 man sport. The argument should be for who's the greatest at each position. Jordan is clearly the greatest shooting guard in history and Lebron is right up there with Bird (although I would take Bird over him because he's just a better overall player). Kareem, Shaq, Wilt and Hakeem all are right up there for consideration as the best center. You can't really argue with saying Kareem is the best center in history.

Yes. There are so many reasons that get glossed over when talking about Kareem. Frankly, the main reason he's been catapulted above Russell and Wilt (for a number of people), is because of Isiah Thomas using him as a Trojan Horse, to help (later on) stabilize his case that LeBron is greater than Jordan. This all started with Isiah on Open Court. The moment he did it, I knew what he was doing. Oh, and since LeBron is now the All Time leading scorer, passing Kareem, it's LeBron as the greatest of all time; which is all b.s. Here are the reasons why Kareem (IMO) isn't the greatest: - Everything mentioned in the video (great job); winning an MVP when you miss the playoffs? - The talent pool of the '70s was split. Frankly, his peak (not his prime) overlapped with the ABA, from '69-'76. There are a number of really good C and PF/C types over in the ABA, and the NBA's talent pool was watered-down to a point. - The peak/prime of his career was the '70s. He was the league's most important player. He was the best center playing in a "center's league", probably at the height of it being a center's league. Of course he's going to be racking-up MVPs. Who's his real challenger over that period of time? Wilt's gone early enough, and Walton was always injured. Jerry West had written more than once, that he thought that Kareem was just out there, going through the motions; he was his coach during that period! - Tape delay in '80. I mean, he's (supposedly) the face of basketball, and the league's ratings sucked. The Lakers by the late '70s had a talented enough roster, yet were playing some pretty listless basketball. You need Magic and Bird to enter into the equation, to help SAVE basketball. Also, how are the Supersonics making it to back-to-back (with Sikma!) Finals vs Washington? - A great argument can be made that Dr. J was the face of basketball in the '70s, and he played his basketball in an inferior league. Dr. J was more important to the '70s, than Kareem was. - Kareem was being a bit of a GM when he first got to the Lakers, when they cut Happy Hairston in training camp; he led the NBA in rebounding rate in '75 and he was a pretty good defender/help defender, who could do the dirty stuff at PF. Kareem had a grudge vs Hairston going back to a dustup they had a few years prior to that; during the Lakers +30 game winning streak (when Kareem was with the Bucks). He's a jerk, frankly. - Isiah Thomas - as color commentator on NBC in the '90s - had said MANY TIMES, that MJ was the greatest player ever. Now, he's allowed to change his mind. Sure. Everyone can change their mind. But I'm not buying it coming from him. Kareem's career ended in '89, and if you thought he was the greatest ever, I don't see how a few/several years later, you already know that MJ was greater; likely even before he won some stupid qualifier like winning his 5th or 6th title. When you see the best, experience it, you KNOW who the best is. You could also make an argument that Isiah was taking a bit of a dig at Magic (and Jordan) when he put Kareem at the top. - He wanted out of Milwaukee. This wasn't a trend at the time. It would set a bad precedence going forward. - Has anyone ever said that Moses Malone was a greater center than Kareem? Because he won 3 MVPs, that (arguably) overlap with Kareem's extended prime; 2 of which came while playing in the same conference. Had Karl Malone passed Kareem in All Time points, I doubt too many people would have said that Karl Malone is/was the greatest scorer of All Time. Rather, he has the record, and that's that. He was RIGHT THERE in '04 to grab it. LeBron and Kareem are similar. The two most hyped players of their era. They both delivered. And with that, both of them did no favors to the league's ratings. LeBron in '20, on the LAKERS (the LAKERS are must see TV btw), during "THE PANDEMIC" when everyone must stay home, just before RU-vid 10-minute game highlights blow up (for context), registers the lowest Finals' ratings since '78-'79! Even worse than the tape-delayed '80s finals! I would also imagine that a GREAT number of people that tuned-in to watch the Finals when he was with Miami, Cleveland, and the few watched the Lakers, were in large part wanting to see LeBron lose, and how he'd react to the losing. Neither LeBron or Kareem saved basketball, or elevated it to a higher level; in the fan's eyes. If they did, the ratings would reflect that. People loved watching Magic vs Bird, and Jordan. I don't care about counting stats and longevity. They're lame qualifiers that people get too wrapped up in these days. Did you capture the hearts and minds of the majority of those watching you? That should matter more. As great as Kareem was, he was also a bit of a pretender.

What I got after watching this video is you need to have a really good supporting players to be the "goat".

Kareem's rings are won with other GOAT's Big O and Magic. They didn't win rings without Kareem. Of course, if rings really mattered for GOAT discussions Sam Jones is the second greatest of all time. Kareem could not regularly create his own scoring opportunities but is that a requirement to be part of the conversation. Bill Russell could not generate enough offense to be dominant on his own.

Didnt know this! Great research! Put a bit of a dent or at least scratch on the GOAT debate knowing this happened in his prime

Hmm....being able to single-handedly lift two teams, who would have been historically bad without you, almost into the playoffs, and even winning MVP in one of those years -- as you said, the only player ever to accomplish this -- is only a further testament to your greatness... Do the math: Greatest high school player on greatest high school team ever + Greatest college player on greatest college team ever + Greatest NBA player on one of greatest NBA dynasties ever = GOAT 🏀🐐

A _LOT_ of people have Lebron as their number #2 or #1. I will _NEVER_ be able to do that. Until he at least finishes even in the Finals, he will never get past MJ or Kareem in my book. He should have won that chip in 2011. MJ, Kareem, Larry Legend, Timmy, etc would have found a way to win that series. Especially with a team like the Heat.

My top three are MJ , Wilt and Kareem. In no particular order. I enjoy watching Jordan the most. Next group is Magic, Bird, Russell, and maybe LeBron. Then there is a group of another half dozen or so.

2 3peats w/6 Finals' MVP is hard 2 beat. 10 Scoring Titles, 3 Steals Title, DPOY, 9 Defense 1st Teams. MJ broke foot 2nd yr and played 27 games after 1st retirement. He accomplished that in 13yrs as a Bull. That's DOMINANCE!!!

Just being a student of Bruce Lee makes Kareem Abdul-Jabbar the GOAT, in my opinion.

I think it hurts his case a little but his team always won more games with him than they did without him. He was never accused of resting on defense or stat padding. Only winning championships with Oscar and Magic hurts his goat argument more than his struggles carrying a terrible team to playoff contention.

I am a MJ fan Kareem, MJ , Kobe and you can argue Wilt those 4 guys are the up class that the media should be debating. All 4 men 2way players led and dominated their eras and so this makes more sense

In my opinion Kareem should be in the debate with Jordan for the GOAT, not Lebron.

I find it hilarious that the phrase "MJ got 1-9 before Pippen showed up" It's not like Pippen was playing at a high level right out of the gate, and he wasn't even a starter on that weak Bulls team. Pippen played 10p - 5r - 2a at his 1st playoff series, a virtually compliant role player performance. To win the first round, Jordan needed to play 45p - 5r - 5a on 56% shooting from the field. In pippen`s 3years in the chicago, his playoff stats are 14.5p - 6.9r - 4.1a - 1.5s - 1.0b That's great. Of course, not for a great second option, but a great third option. During the same time period, Jordan had 35.8p - 7.1r - 6.7a - 2.6s - 0.9b Pippen is a great player, but people have to realize that it took him almost four years to become the Pippen we know.

You make a complicated subject matter come alive. I am 72 and have seen all the greats. My opinion is that the game is won or lost in the paint. Kareem controlled more aspects of the game than Jordan.

Winning the MVP and not even making the playoffs is wild. Kareem was in LA for a couple of years and didn’t win. People always say MJ won because of Pip, which isn’t true. But this is the true case of Kareem winning because of Magic.

I say all the time I don't care what Kareem did when he was in high school as a pro every time he won he had one the greatest big man HOF point guards of all time of that era either Big O or Magic. People love to point out how Pip was always there with Jordan and how LeBroom basically played with a plethora of All Stars whenever the Queen won rings people forget Kareem had plenty of help too it wasn't just him hookshoting over players all night.

I still say he is the greatest player of all time at all three levels (High school, college, NBA). Very consistent.

Great video. Absolutely it disqualifies him especially with the team he had. Lucious Allen, Cazy Russel and Gail Goodrich. Then a couple years later he get Nixon, Dantley and Silk Wilks and lost in the 1st round. Definitely he's disqualified.

Kareem had such a great career. What is the point of diving way back to the mid-70s and whipping him over his and his team’s disappointing 2 seasons.

You can't be the GOAT if you can't put butts in the seats and the NBA nearly bankrupts on your watch. Plus, he played several years where the competition was divided with the ABA.

Rick Barry made some good points. I think he was skeptical about comparing eras. His bigger point is that you should have all time players listed by POSITION. Kareem, LeBron and MJ all played different positions. This makes more sense if you going to combine eras.

If Jordan and Kareem were in the draft at the same time Kareem would go first 10 out of 10 time's

Considering the 70’s were the “weakest era”, he should’ve been winning championships along with winning mvps. It was only until magic arrived that he won more chips and also side note, they say magic and bird saved the league, why isn’t Kareem in that convo 🤔

Magic is the second greatest player I've ever seen. This video reiterates why for me.

As an MJ fan, I have Kareem #2 on my top 10 all-time list behind MJ

Let's dive even deeper into your analysis of the 1975-1976 season. The 1975 Lakers went 30-52. Kareem joined that team the following season and improved the record by 10 games. Here's the thing. The team that went 30-52 was not the same team he joined. He replaced 2 good players and 2 rookies who were picks #2 and #8 in the draft. He brought a 3rd string Center with him from the Bucks. Brian Winters & Elmore Smith combined for 53.9 minutes, 22.6 points, 12.9 rebounds, 4.9 assists, 2.2 steals, and 3.2 blocks in 1974-1975. They took those stats with them to the 1976 Bucks. Without those two guys where would that team be? That 1974-1975 Lakers team doesn't win anywhere near 30 out 82 games. More like 6-76 or 12-70 without Winters and Smith. So the "10 game improvement" was more like 28 or 34 additional wins. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Kareem and Jordan both joined the next to last place team as rookies. 1969 Bucks 27-55 Drafted Kareem 1970 Bucks 56-26 Lost in the Eastern Division Finals to Eventual Champion Knicks 4-1. Kareem statistically outplayed the 1970 regular season MVP and Finals MVP Willis Reed 1971 Bucks Champions 1984 Bulls 27-55 Drafted Jordan 1985 Bulls 38-44 Lost in the first round to Milwaukee Bucks 3-1. Jordan was outscored by Terry Cummings of the Bucks. 1986 Bulls 30-52 Jordan missed most of the season. Lost 3-0 to the eventual Champion Celtics in the 1st Round 1987 Bulls 40-42 Lost in the 1st round to the Runner Up Celtics 3-0 No Finals Appearance until 1991 which was Jordan's 1st Championship Despite 2 long "retirement" breaks, Jordan's knees were shot at age 40. The Eastern Conference was very weak compared to the West and yet the Wizards never made it to the playoffs. They could not finish 8th either season to qualify. 10th in 2002. Tied for 9th in 2003. Longevity: Jordan played 14.25 seasons over 19 years. Started at 21. Retired at 40. Kareem played 20 seasons in a row. Started at 22. Retired at 42.

In all fairness he should have shared the 1980s finals MVP with magic.

Big men needed good guards to get the ball to them in that era. Russel, Wilt, they all had dominant guard play too when winning championships. It's not like the era today where big men can bring the ball up and take threes.

No! Those two seasons are irrelevant as far as I am concerned! Kareem Abdul-Jabbar should still remain in the GOAT conversation!

No, these criticisms are misplaced. Fact is, no matter how great the player, if **80%** (four of the five) are not contributing at a high enough level, that one great player cannot get it done. Jordan lost the majority of his 60 point games. Wilt lost all but one of his 70 point games. What more were they supposed to do to win those games? The fact that they HAD to score so much to try to win those games reflects a weak team other than them. The common headline in Jordan's early years was 'Bulls lose despite Jordan's 37 points.' He couldn't get his teams to even .500 (his first three years) until he got better teammates. A team sport requires a good enough TEAM. Generally in the NBA, that meant two all-star level players and another player who was just below that level who could get you 20+ points fairly regularly.

I look at it as how they have chosen to market the NBA: mythologize the current/recent players at the expense of the past. And even worse, legislate changes to make it easier for the current batch of players. Defensive three in the key, crazy interpretations of traveling, remove hand-checking, all with the intent to increase scoring and make it easier on offense. And top it off with whatever else (legal and illegal) players are putting in their bodies nowadays. I was a Celtics fan, and let me say this: no one had a better basketball career than Kareem. He might have been the best player in the world when he was a freshman at UCLA. So what was the real difference? Kareem wasn't a media darling and had something to say other than selling shoes or himself.

Could you imagine a Prime Olajuwon in the 70s! Or even today Kareem was great but best Center goes to Hakeem not Kareem especially considering if Hakeem had the players Kareem had 😮

This title is ridiculous. I just came to give you the engagement you’re trolling for. 😂

Criteria for GOAT; MUST be in the conversation of greatest high school player ever MUST be in the conversation of greatest college player ever MUST be in the conversation of greatest professional player ever MUST have won titles on all three levels MUST be stellar on both sides of the ball MUST have won at least five league MVP awards This equates to only one player…KAREEM ABDUL JABBAR!

The only basketball player in history to have a law put out in his name the Lew Alcinder rule !

Kareem deserves the GOAT title! But not everyone gonna SAY that cuz he didn’t have SEXY PLAY! Man winning is SEXY!

Great narrative. I dont think the 2 non playoff seasons should disqualify from the GOAT bebate but does make him not the GOAT over MJ who made playoffs every year with Bulls with some crappy teams and no other All Star help. MJ ❤4ever the GOAT periodt

im going off your commentary on this video in order. so he won his 3rd mvp in 5 season yet bird won 3 straight, does that make bird better then kareem?. he was injured by breaking his hand and played but didnt make the playoffs, jordan in the 85-86 season broke his foot and missed 64 games, he returned to play the last 15 games against the teams wishes and helped chicago make it to the playoffs. who would you say helped the team more? that should help the discussion more.

All that was confirmed is that great players need help.

i did not hear anyone wants to be like Kareem. Even Shaq dont want to learn his sky hook

This is very simple to solve who has the most impact on that basketball court off their skill set not whos the most entertaining player this ain't dancing its basketball not who needs the most talent surrounding them just to compete at the level of those dominant players alone

Thanks 😮

Nobody talks him as the goat or these 100 year old facts because none of the analysts watched these games

Kareem forgot to mention that an old Wilt who couldn't hit free throws and win championships, outplayed him during some of their matchups. Jordan would never have allowed that.

Once I heard MJ went 1-9 before Pippen, I cut it off. Told RU-vid do not recommend amateur hour🤦🏾‍♂️

The Lakers also lost to Seattle first round in 78 and 79(4 - 1) regardless to the fact that they had Nixon,Dantley and Wilkes! they won 5 titles but they added Magic,Worthy,Mcadoo,Cooper and Scott..that was a very very stacked super team throughout the decade and they also had Riley..so its more than certain that if Kareem had stayed with the Bucks he would have been a one ring player and even that with Oscar..does that diminish his skills on a personal level..absolutely not..the rings argument is the biggest crap argument of all times because there are so many variables at play that no one can win rings because he is so dominant by him self period!

No one was like the real GOAT, MICHAEL JORDAN, lebron, kareen, they are just little lambs, next to the biggest and best of all, JORDAN.

He missed 16 games so was his record when he was in the lineup? Kareem=MVP

The following players were amongst the best of the 1970s, but spent a good amount of time in the ABA during that timespan, leaving a much weaker and watered down NBA for other players to compete in. Rick Barry - 1968/69 - 1971/72, did not play in 1967/68 Artis Gilmore - 1971/72 - 1975/76 Billy Cunningham - 1972/73 - 1973/74 George Gervin - 1972/73 - 1975/76 Julius Erving - 1971/72 - 1975/76 David Thompson - 1975/76 This would be akin to Jordan competing in a league without Isiah, Magic, Drexler, Barkley, Payton, Stockton or Malone for a large chunk of his career, except for the fact that Jordan's group of competition was of far higher quality overall to begin with. The 1970s had a severe dearth of quality NBA competition to begin with, and having to compete with the ABA weakened it even further I like Kareem and I got him over Bron.. but not over Mj

I always had MJ #1, Kareem #2, Magic, Wilt, Kobe or Lebron #3.

No I don't think he should be disqualified for missing the playoffs, especially with his supporting class he had.

IDC what the critics says Kareem #2 on my list ALL TIME. 😤

I will let you rant on and on about not being able to find your way out, without having a Oscar Robinson type of player It's quite funny how you feel about Michael Jordan and how stand up for the reasons you started losing. By the way Michael Jordan played with a broken wrist and used his other hand to score the ball. You don't hear him complain about losing , because he doesn't do anything that he wouldn't do himself. He carries himself like a man No excuses made period. And we do respect Karreem. Like Kobe Bryant, Tim Duncan, and many others

The GOAT title is 100% subjective!

The division were put in to reduce travel. The NBA in the 1970's isn't the billion dollar industry it is today. Travel was expensive. You played your division more games and to make it more competitive, they put a division champ and a playoff birth in playoff birth in place if you win.. Also, the Lakers had a loosing record to that " sorry" Milwaukee team you speak off!

Ridiculous...Of course not. Silly silly stuff. Actually it strengthens his case for being the GOAT because he carried a Laker team that was loaded with old vets or second rate players who couldn't really play that well. No disrespect. Can you name another player on those Laker teams? I can. Don Ford (who the Lakers would eventually trade to the Cavs for the draft pick that ended up being James Worthy)? CJ Kupec, Stu Lantz who was already ready to retire, a rickety Cazzie Russell, Walt Wesley!!!! Lucius Allen and Gail Goodrich were probably his best supporting teammates. They had Corky Calhoun!!! You have to remember, the Lakers traded all their best players to get Kareem!! Elmore Smith was a defensive master. Brian Winters went on to become an all-star, David Meyers and Junior Bridgeman both made names for themselves. The following year, they had the best record in the league with the likes of Tom Abernathy, Bo Lamar, Earl Tatum, Don Chaney and many of the same players from the previous year. They were eventually swept by Portland in the Semis by an overpowering Portland team. Kareem deserves credit for carrying that team as far as he did to the best record in the league and to the conference finals. He's the GOAT.....he knows it, Jordan knows it, and LeBron knows it.

Magic

I’ve often said that Kareem should be in the GOAT conversation. Just sayin. All great players have something that’s questionable.

For the life of me, why mofo's don't get it's A team sport. Titles is A team accomplishment, but your stats & awards are yours.

the original lebum

NOPE. Those 2 season are NOT what disqualifies him as the Goat. What actually disqualifies him as the goat is that even tho he won the MVP again in 1980. He was actually never the true alpha of those showtime lakers teams. Those were magics teams. And Magic proved it in his first year by winning finals MVP taking over for him at center in game 6. What kinda all time superstar team leader has their team immediately win 60+ games and make the finals the in the 2 years after he retired? If they was really the main one responsible how does their team get better after their leave? If your going to be the true goat you have to be the alpha on your team for at least more than 1 championship If you’re going to be the goat you have to win get more than 1 championship in your prime and your team is winning 59+ games with Oscar Robinson for 4 straight seasons. All be it an older Oscar who was playing sidekick but still definitely a good enough sidekick. But what does that say about Kareem when Oscar was the clear sidekick and still averaging the same amount of points as he did later on with showtime during an era? If your going to be the goat you have to make more than just 2 finals appearances in what is unanimously considered the weakest era in NBA history when half the best players in the world were in the ABA. An era in which you dominated and literally won half of the daceds MVPs!! If your going to be the goat you have to at the very least establish yourself as the clear cut number 2 most valuable player to a dynasty and win more than just the same amount of finals MVPs and average more than just 2 rebounds more than James Worthy during those showtime years. Or at the very least even average more points in the same minutes!!!! If your going to be the goat you have to at least have your best seasons without a top 3-4 PG of all time yield more than 56 wins and 53 wins with just 1 conference championship appearances. Dr J put up 5x 50+ win seasons before he ever paired up with Mosses. Including 3x 58+ win seasons and 2 finals appearances with the same amount of hall of fame teammates and even less all star appearances in total on his team than Kareem’s 70s Lakers!! Patrick Ewing led 7x 50+ win teams and a 60 win team with 0 other hall of famers and made multiple conference championships Charles Barkley led 3x 56+ win teams with 0 hall of famers and made multiple conference championships. Hakeem only played with 1 other all star before winning his 2nd title with an old Clyde Drexler and won 50+ games 4x before that and made multiple finals and even won 1. Hell Even Pippen managed to win 55+ games in his first year without Jordan. Carrying your team to 50+ wins for a season or two isn’t special enough to cement yourself as a top 5 player ever. It’s not enough to just be a big reason your team wins games. Or even just a big reason you win championships. You have to be THE reason your team wins championships! Where talking about the goat convo for crying out loud. There’s levels to this. We don’t give Scottie Pippen the same amount of credit for those 6 championships as we do MJ. We don’t give Kobe the same amount of credit for his first 3 championships with Shaq as we do for his last 2 with Gasol. We don’t give Dwayne Wade the same amount of credit as we do for his 2 championships with Lebron as we do for his one with Shaq. We just simply do not give guys that play 2nd fittle the same amount of credit as the true number 1 on championship teams. Kareem is probably the greatest “individual” player of all time. But he was never a true alpha and never a true leader. And those things are just way too important in a team game like basketball. Especially when talking about the GOAT. Look all respect to Kareem cuz I’d still take him over Wilt all time any day of the week. But when I remember his career I think of his 6 MVPs before I do his 6 rings. And I think of him as one of the greatest scorers and rim protectors of all time before I do any of his insane accolades. Every single top 10 player of all time has led their team to MULTIPLE championships as the top dog. EXCEPT Kareem!!! I don’t wanna be known as a Kareem hater for having him so low on my top 10 list. But if your going to be a consensus top 5 Mount Rushmore player you at the very least need to have a real case to be the goat. And actually looking at the context of his career and past his incredible resume. He clearly doesn’t.

Wilt also missed the playoffs once as well. Jordan missed the playoffs twice.

I tire of the goat discussion. As a basketball purest, I appreciate players with the most cumulative contribution. Jordan and Dr J were flashy entertainers. Kareem, Malone, LeBron were better all round players with consistency and dedication. They will always get the nod from me. Butts in the seats is nice for the capitalists, but hard work, humility and teamwork will shine over pure gifted talent and showmanship. I'm not saying Jordan wasn't a beast but his choices, attitude and obvious advantages given to him because of his ability to make people money take him out of the top for me.

Funny thing is Jordan stans act like Jordan beat the Kareem Lakers in 91 lol

Kareem NEVER WON without Oscar and Magic.

Kareem never got dominated for years like MJ did in the 80’s. You are talking about kareem missing the playoffs

Kareem is better and more valuable than Lebron. His sky hook was an unstoppable and he was an excellent teammate who only played for 2 teams! Incredible teammate, respected his coaches, his competitors, and was an above avg freethrow shooter. Lebron has jumped ship 2 times and runs the Lakers!! His points arent legit like Kareem's were! He travels, carries, flops, etc! How many nights does Lebron take off? Kareem hardly ever missed games. They traveled on commercial planes and Kareem played through migraine headaches! Kareem won 3 NCAA titles and they banned dunking because of him! There is no comparison in my book!

Nice breakdown. BTW Jordan is the GOAT period.

The is Kareem won the finals MVP in 1980 if you do your research.

Interesting because if Jordan had the same Playoffs rules as Kareem in the 1970's Jordan don't even make the playoffs before Scottie Pippen. The Bulls were literally the 8th seed when they were facing Boston. If only 10 teams made the NBA playoffs in the 1980's the Bulls don't make it...before Pippen So what's your point again???

Are we seriously going to take Kareem out of the GOAT conversation because of missing the playoffs with a terrible team? If that's the case, literally nobody should be in the GOAT conversation, including MJ. That's how stupid the argument is, especially when a team is that bad around their star player. You already mentioned that Jerry West said that team would be the worst team in the league without Kareem, and the Bucks went on an 11 game losing streak the season before that without Kareem. There is a total difference in playing with a truly terrible team that is overachieving because of you, and Lebron stinking up the joint against the Mavericks in 2011 with a stacked Heat team that was completely healthy, and were only a few points away from winning 2 of those last 3 games in that series.

Wilt Chamberlain is the G.O.A.T. Nobody will break his records in rebounds, blocks, and points in a single game

This is what Ive been saying that Karrem is overrated af! In the 80s when he won 5 of his 6 rings. No one was talking about him being thr GOAT. It was between Magic, his own teammate, and Bird. Then MJ eclipsed them all.

All basketball heads know you'd take Kareem #1. He wins ships.

So fine Kareem argument, but then you would say you greater than him, you serious you never pass kobe

Blah blah blah. Wilt has his OWN record book, son.

Jordan's seasons playing baseball were far worse, and they don't exclude him.

People are always trying to make a team sport into tennis or boxing. There isn't a GOAT in a team sport. You could be the greatest at that position or the most influential but one guy never beat 5.

“Lebron is the Greatest Longevity player” those that believe that clearly don’t know Kareem

The Lakers gutted their sqaud to trade for Kareem.

People, people, people jordan played 13 years, Kareem, Lebron played 18 years 5 years different. Lebron entering his 19 years. So who’s the goat. 6 rings in 13 years or 4 rings in 19 year. Bubble championship doesn’t count.

Kareem is without a doubt one of the greatest player of all time but in 5 of those ships Magic was the best player,he is like Lebron longevity numbers,MJ have more trophies in way less season

Same people still trying to tear down the careers of other players simply because Larry Bird’s career was not as good. All this talk started when the so called experts started putting out lists without Larry Bird in the top ten. And since all of you guys want to attack to Kareem prime years. What about the year when Kareem won the finals MVP at age 38? Name any other player that could have done this!

That's why,Mike leave all that Goat,_hit along and never say he's the Goat.

So if we think Kareem is the goat, then we are MJ haters? Really?