Thanks Leo for what you do for the guitar community on YT. Your deep dives into the technical specs and real world performance of guitar gear is tremendously valuable to those of us who are serious about getting the most out of our purchases. I think guitar gear manufacturers probably take notice of your videos, and hopefully the comments that users and potential customers write. After all, we want the manufacturers to be successful in creating products that perform well, last long, and provide us with features that truly meet our needs at a fair price. 👍
Hi, thank you so much for your feedback and nice words!!! Good synthesis about the products we nee....perform well, last long and features we need....a very brilliant summary!!! Thank you!
Leo, thanks so much for this upload. Very eye/ear opening and your hard work is always appreciated. I also wanted to give my sincerest thoughts and prayers for your family loss.
LEO! You are DEFINITELY NOT a nobody!! We value your opinion and your input is much appreciated!! Side note, when will you have an Ampero Stage to test?! 😎
I'm actually quite happy with the way the market is going. There's never been a better time to be a struggling guitarist. Or even a struggling artist in general. Till I figure out NAM at my feet, dual amping, without a computer beside me.... sorry I find helix, and fractal sound too good😂 I love tweaking my sound, that's how I make MY sound.
Your tests are always the BEST!, also, sorry for your loss of your father, Big hug! IMHO the best solution for amp sims would be a hardware unit that could load profiles from NAM and ToneX Also, since you are accurate doing scientific tests, could you please cover the subject of proper input levels for amp sims on computers?, there's not a standard and manufacturers use different levels to calibrate their models but if the user is using an input signal too hot or too weak then none of what the amp sims offers will sound accurate as intended, hardware units don't have this problem as they're factory calibrated, that's why a guitar going straight into a Helix (for example) will sound totally different when using the same preset on Helix Native, I saw some videos of people saying around -12dBu is the correct level but it all depends on the interface used, hope you can comment or do a video on that topic using your precise testing methods, Thanks!
Hi, thank you so much, I'm really happy that you appreciate the videos! Good point about the guitar input volume and the plugin...I will see what I can do... Thanks!
I bought a TONEX when they were first released. I'm so impressed that I recently bought another as a spare (and also for dual amp/cab configurations). And.... both units (plus some fantastic additional 3rd party models) cost me around the same as the Kemper player.
Great video and analysis. There's one thing that I think it's important, even though I can't prove because I don't own a Kemper or ToneX: I think that the gain parameter is not the problem of static profiles. When I play with NAM, Mooer MNRS or GuitarML profiles, the gain can be changed and the behaviour of the profile is good enough. This make sense, since the profiling procedure shoots sounds with different levels, some are very quiet and some are very loud, so more or less the training takes into account the gain. I think that a more accurate analysis would be too change the other tonestack knobs... Bass, mid, treb, presence, etc. Those parameters are not varied during the profiling process, and thus the results when you play can't be very good in a static profile. So I would repeat this study, but focusing more on the eq parameters of the tonestack, to make sure the liquid profiling is a real upgrade over static trainings.
You have the most in-depth technical knowledge of this subject of anyone I've seen on RU-vid. Couple that with your stellar guitar skills and you've got the perfect package. Can't wait to hear more of what you do with both the Kemper and the ToneX. God bless and rock on 🎸😎👍
You may have a small youtube channel, but you are SPOT ON and Kemper should listen to you. The competition really has just begun ;) Awesome Video as always, you deserve a lot more subs!
I just got the Kemper Player a week ago. It sounds really good. I think I'll sell one of my two Quad Cortexes and use this as my backup. I'm not super interested in the Tonex. I've used the Amplitube software products for many years and was never completely satisfied. The Player gives me the amp-in-the-room feel that I've never had with any other guitar processors. But for God's sake Kemper, expand the Player's signal chain!
Thank you for sharing! I do totally agree...especially after the cab block...it is almost unacceptable to not be able to run a stereo chorus delay and reverb...but just two of them at a time... Thank you!
I share your opinion, 10 years ago kemper was one of the best profiling solutions. Now their tech has aged and it looks like they are not really willing to follow the market évolution. The day that we'll be able to get rid of our old unreliable but unbelievably sounding amps has not come yet.
Hi, I think Leo Gibson is easy to remember for a guitarist...Leo Fender....and well....Gibson is the other brand.... 😀 Thank you so much and I'm happy that you appreciate the content!!!
Great video as always Leo! The training capabilities of Mac platform is not great right now. Using an Nvidia Graphics card with dedicated AI Core you will get much much faster profiling performance. 😊
Thank you, I'm really happy that you appreciate the video! Yes, I don't think I'm the only one who makes music on a Mac....IK should definitely optimise their sw for Mac.... Thanks!
Leo, sorry about the loss of your father. My mother just passed away too. My condolences. I've decided to take a weird path after all this talk in the last 6 months. When the MOD Dwarf was announced, I was excited about the platform and the potential to use convolution reverb in my live rig. That wasn't available at launch. But now it is. Then there was the talk about NAM on the Dwarf. Well, you know what happened there. All together, I realised that the Dwarf was too underpowered for what I'd hoped to do with it, and it was more expensive too than planned at its announcement. So what I've decided to do is run the MODEP Linux conversion of the MOD platform on the new Raspberry Pi5 using the simple Pisound hat (to start with) and a midi footswitcher. The increased power of the Pi5 over the Dwarf should allow me to run a full effects chain (including convolution reverb) with at least one and maybe more instances of NAM using its full size profiles. The DACs may not compare to what's in ToneX or the Quad Quartex, but I'm eager to try this system as an all-in-one and proof of concept. In theory, I'll be able to have the highest quality reverb and the highest quality amp and/or drive pedal profiles of any small floor unit. I'll have to see how it plays out in practice, but I'm excited to try. I thought you may find this approach interesting even if it's not practical or desireable for everyone. I think that it does, however, represent where guitar effects will be going and _soon_ : a platform that lets you choose from a variety of third party plugins to give you the best of both choosing individual stompboxes _and_ the convenience of multi-fx units.
Hi, thank you so much for sharing your project...it is very interesting, therefore when finalised, please let us know (if you want). Thank you for your condolences, and I'm really sorry for your loss....it's so sad to loose someone who you truly love....
Great video Leo! So the Liquid Profiling tech does really work well in relation with Kemper’s overall level of accuracy. The deviation from the original is more or less the same. They just need to improve their algorithm for profiling. I keep coming back to Kemper every time because I prefer the user interface, but it’s interesting that they have gotten better at modeling than they are at profiling now.
Pure Cabinet comes on for default on the Kemper and that changes the profile sound A LOT, again you never mentioned if it was on or off. That’s a HUGE detail to miss!!!
...every time I make a video about Kemper units I receive two messages: 1) did you perform the refining procedure? ... yes I did....even if, as I said in the video; I think that it should be up to Kemper to do it automatically, with the riffs he knows perform the best 2) what about the pure cabinet? yes....it is managed properly....and I know that not saying anything about it....I will receive a free message...complaining...which is good for the YT algorithm....😀
Hi Leo, in the analogue world for best tone considering cheap guitar>expensive amp vs expensive guitar>cheap amp, expensive amp will win. Considering this, do you think expensive guitar vs cheap guitar makes a big difference to guitar tone in the digital world? I think this would be a good video. When capturing/modelling our tone and how we dial in the digital amp settings does it matter what guitar we use, quality of electrics, single coil, p90, humbucker? Does it matter, custom shop goodie, when using digital amps? What does matter?
Hi, this is a pretty interesting topic!!! In my opinion the guitar is super important in the final tone you are gonna get...it is important nowadays as much as it was in the old days...and the more the technology advance and is able to provide us with faithful digital copy of our tube amps, the more the guitar is important in the final tone. If you ask me, I can clearly hear the differences between my black Suhr (which is my favourite guitar) and my blue one. They are both Strat copies, mounting the same neck PU....but even using just the neck PU...the tone is different in my opinion. And I can hear this difference both with super high end modellers and with cheaper ones. Furthermore the guitar is of course very import in terms of playability .... and once again the neck of my Suhr fits very well with my hand.... Finally I would mention the "coolness" effect...I mean, the more time pass by, the more my gear has to be nice looking and cool...I said also about the Quad Cortex....In my opinion it is the prettiest modeller so far....as my black Suhr....is the prettiest guitar I own (form my taste obviously).... The tone is the results of many things....your fingers, your guitar, your amp, etc....and the guitar (if you ask me) has a very important role. Thanks!!!
Dear Leo, please do a scientific comparison video between NAM, Kemper Player, and ToneX! It is something many people wonder about! Thank you very much!
Hi, Thank You, really fantastic stuff. Have question if you don't mind. The Kemper displays the values (gain, EQ, etc) of a liquid profile. If for example the gain of the amp that is being profiled is set to 7 , you cannot go higher than 10. How does Tonex display those values? When I pull up a profile in Tonex, every setting defaults to 5. If the profiled amp in Tonex is captured say at a gain of 7, couldn't you theoretically exceed original amp gain setting. How would we know what the correct value is to reference in Tonex? Again my utmost thanks for having this channel. Come here every day. Utmost condolences regarding your father.
Thank you so much for the condolences and I'm really happy that you appreciate the channel! Actually, with Tonex, not having any reference point with the original setting of the amp, when you max out the gain, you are gonna exceed the "potential" maximum gain of your amp. This is something IK shoud improve....I mean, they can just allow us to tell the profiling procedure which were the initial settings of the amp...it should be pretty easy... Thanks!
Hi, Leo, can I ask you something? If you'd be doing the Ampero Stage review, could you please check if the CPU is capable of handling two separate guitars at once. It has two parallel effect chains and two sets of stereo inputs and outputs, but I'm not sure if it would be possible to have two amps and cabs at once with a few other effects on each chain like drive, modulation and delays. I'm thinking of putting both my guitar players through one unit to keep it simple and lightweight, but the only one somewhat cheap unit that might be able to handle that is Ampero Stage.
The potentiometers are such a big variable, i feel like it would make a null test never work no matter how good the liquid profiling is. Even if you null tested the friedman against itself it would probably fail if you reset the ports every time
1.does the pink taco has the same circuit tone stack as the friedman b+e 2.i wonder if it would be the same test results with the other stack liquid profiles like soldano,fender.rectifire and ect. 3.i wish kemper will see this video and apply your suggestions:) 4.i extremely enjoying and inspired playing my toaster kemper for the last 6 years i own it either way 5.i waiting for the fender fr 12 cab on my way,it would be great if you'll do a frfr cabs compression and review which one you like the best
Hi, the Pink Taco v2 is supposed to be a single channel BE, therefore I think the tone stack should be pretty accurate. As regards the speaker, they are very expensive and big, therefore it is pretty hard for me to make a comparison.... nevertheless...never say never.... Thank you!
Hi, thank you for sharing! Unfortunately I have a Mac...I don't think I'm the only one to create music with a Mac...and, basically, ToneX is not optimised for Mac...
My dream is that a multifx manufacturer would put a NAM player in its unit. I guess it's not possible yet, at least with decent latency. But it would be as IR, you would buy profiles independent of the end platform, it would be great. Maybe not for multifx manufacturers, because having exclusive tech is a sales point. This could, in the other hand, destroy the fx market.
@@rand0mturk3y Thanks for the info. I took a look, it's the most innovative thing I've seen, but there's some limitations. It looks like it has a considerably high latency and does not work as an audio interface. So you would add more latency to record it. But anyway, it's good to see people trying new things.
Thanks Leo for all this work you put into this. However, I find it difficult to understand how much value those null tests have. E.g. you've used a $3000 audio interface to create the capture. If that audio interface has better and lower noise AD converters, then isn't it possible the created capture is better, and that would cause the Tonex player to do better on a null test? What if you had used a cheap Focusrite Scarlett? But then, and IMO more important, can you actually hear the difference between -26 LUFS and -33 LUFS? Because if you can't hear the difference, what would be the point then? In the audiopile world, there the THD (total harmonic distortion). Do better speakers and amps always have a lower THD? Do people buy speakers or amps because they have a low THD on the spec sheet or because they feel it sounds better? People love valve amps that cost thousands of dollars and they have a very high (bad) THD. Do you feel the Tonex sounds better or more accurate? Can you spot the difference in a blind test?
You are welcome! Well, of course for me this video is very valuable...but everyone has his own opinion... Let me give you an example: I was very happy and exited for the Kemper Liquid Tech...but at the end ToneX performs still better, even when you change the settings...this is one of the outcome of the video (pretty valuable in my opinion ...but of course everyone has his own opinion). I would also like to start a debate about the refining procedure...that only Kemper asks the user to perform...where for instance ToneX performs the refining procedure by his own...I found absurd that who actually knows better than any one his algorithms ask the final user to play random chords...
@@LeoGibsonGtr Yes, according to null tests. But I'm more interested about your personal opinion by listening to either devices. You're a very good musician and I'm sure you have a very good ear. I'd trust that more than null tests. So, can you tell a difference between -26 LUFS and -33 LUFS? Have you tried to do a null test with the same Friedman amp re-amped?
Hi, Yes, I have done the NULL test also with the same Friedman amp re-amped, and you can check out the results in this video here (that I think is pretty interesting): ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Rd00a2vh6F8.htmlsi=x2hqI8YQlJEbe_44 As you can see in the video, we are still pretty far from the theoretical limit...actually (and NAM is the closest). As regards, the possibility to hear differences, you can find "personal opinions" all over YT... The main take away in this video is that from a scientific point of view, Kemper is not better than ToneX, even when using liquid profiling techniques...this is a pretty big take away, in my opinion...of course it is my opinion, and you may disagree... and this take away should at least rises some questions: If I was Kemper, I would ask my self: "is it better to invest in the liquid profiling tech that at the end does not allow me to overcome NAM or ToneX, or is it better to check out the core of my profiling tech?" If you ask me if I can hear differences from -26 to -33, I would say yes I can....expecialy when summing the original track and the phase inverted one. Thank you, interesting discussion.
Excellent video but I don't understand why the ToneX has got anything to do with a video about testing the Kemper Liquid Profiling ? You proved the Liquid Profiling process is excellent and unique to only the Kemper, but spoiled the video by adding the ToneX to the conversation when the ToneX doesn't have the ability to do Liquid Captures.
Well, because even if Kemper uses the liquid profiling, ToneX is still better than Kemper even when you change the amp setting....I needed a reference to check it out.
@@LeoGibsonGtr It depends what you mean by "better". If a guitarist takes his amp and his guitar into three different pro studios, asks the engineer to mic up the amp and record some clips, then compares the audio clips of the three different engineers/studios, they'll all sound different, one studios recordings might sound better than the other. Yet the same amp and guitar were used for all the recordings, it's just each engineer used his personal preferences for micing up the amp. So yes the ToneX performs "better" technically/scientifically "accurately" when making a Captured, but "better" tone is subjective, so is better feel, etc. IMHO
Yes, and as the meaning of "better" is debatable....and everyone has his own opinion, I have done some scientific tests....numbers tell us that ToneX performs better. You know....when I make tests based on my opinion...I receive messages saying "this is your opinion"....when I make tests based on scientific results...someone say "yes, but personal opinions my be different"... 😀 To me, the most important take away of this video is that even when using the liquid profiling technique, Kemper does NOT overcome ToneX....which is a pretty interesting result in my opinion... and something Kemper should take into consideration (in my opinion). If I was Kemper, I would ask my self: "is it better to invest in the liquid profiling tech that at the end does not allow me to overcome NAM or ToneX, or is it better to check out the core of my profiling tech?" Thank you!
@@djabthrash Bro, more accurate is like changing strings, raising or lowering pickups, preferring a modded TS9 to a stock one, etc etc etc. You can tweak the Kemper Profile, change to a different cabinet, and then they'll sound and feel pretty much identical to the ear and hands. There are thousands of guitarists playing and touring live with Kempers...not too many touring with ToneX. Do you think these guitarists care if some other digital box is 4,77253% more accurate?
