Labour's shallow victory 

The reason we have such low voter turnout is because People think it is a waste of time, as whoever you vote for, you only get either Conservative or Labour.

The headline should have been "FPTP throws up yet another absurdly unfair distribution of seats to votes". Time for a change of system.

Labour will be a shitshow

That Harriet Harman is now being considered by the Labour Party to become the next chair of the Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC) is a VERY BAD SIGN of things to come

Starmer said he wont rejoin the EU...? But Starmer has proven multiple times that he''ll say anything at the time that he thinks people want to hear.

Well, one things certain, massive immigration.

'Davos over Westminster' Starmer...lovely.

Reform has 5 now after a recount in Basildon and East Thurrock

I don't think anyone can think it is fair and correct that Labour has 150 plus majority on a third of the vote. Also Starmer got less votes Corbyn, hardly a ringing endorsement.

Labour won with Less than 20% of the eligible people to vote

Great dialogue guys. I love how you prove it’s possible to have enlightened conversation about multiple political factions without denigrating anyone…. See BBC, it can be done 😮

It is a fundamental error to believe that 'Reform took votes away from the Tories'. I was a Tory voter and if Reform hadn't been there I would not have voted at all. The Tories abandoned conservative values and left the field empty for Reform. In my opinion there is no way back for the Tory (centre left) party. It remains to be seen if Reform can occupy the centre right successfully.

David Lammy as Foreign Secretary? Surely he’s the first to be sacked.

It's interesting that in his constituency, Keir Starmer's majority HALVED - apparently, this has never happened before to an incoming PM

I predict…. -Increased immigration -Another war -continued high inflation particularly on food and fuel -increased minimum wage which will contribute to inflation -increased council tax -reduced freedom of movement especially in cars

Look out now for Davos/Wef policies to be made UK law

We welcome Keir Starmer as Prime Minister the same way we welcome a haemorrhoid.

Add to the fact a lot of reform voters didn't end up voting reform. They voted tactically to remove seats from Labour knowing reform couldn't win. They voted Green, conservatives and lib dems. Next election will be huge

What on earth was Sunak's wife wearing? An alien skeleton?

"First Past the Post" is an excellent way of racing horses, but an abysmal way of voting for representative legislatures.

Anything Labour can do covertly that they said they would not do? THEY WILL DO.

You don’t necessarily need more money in the NHS you need to get rid of all the private companies sucking all the money out first and then organise from there for the benefit of patients!!!!

That's what infuriates me about Lib Dem voters.. Most are not voting FOR anything. They just don't want Labour or, this time, Tory.

I'm 42, 43 next month. I voted Reform UK. Last election I voted Lib Dem. Before that was UKIP. Before that, I voted Conservative. Before that was Labour. I am not a one party voter. I vote for what I think is the best option at the time, in what I think is the best interests of the country at the time. I will not vote again until FPTP is gone. This archaic system enforces the practice of voting for the least worst option. Any vote for a small party is essentially an irrelevant vote, a waste of time and effort. I will spoil my ballot from now on. We need PR or some kind of legal obligation to not lie in election material. Given the choice, I would move to an uninhabited island to live on my own. Unfortunately, there is no uninhabited land free of claim by a government/country. Maybe I could crowd fund a move to Mars! I think I'm finished with Earth.

Love him or hate him, Farage is the only party leader capable of generating any excitement at all. Starmer takes being boring to an art form.

Communication skills are essential for a successful political leader: Margaret Thatcher, Donald Trump, JFK, Bill Clinton, Barack Obama Those who don’t have great communication skills will fail: Gordon Brown, William Hague, Ed Miliband, Theresa May Rishi Sunak was like a geeky hedge funder giving a presentation to a client with his white board. Keir Starmer was like a lawyer who would persuade you to plead guilty when you’re innocent. Both seemed utterly clueless. That’s why Nigel Farage was such a breath of fresh air by comparison. Also, political leaders should be honest about why the UK has declined so much (particularly outside London). My take is that globalisation and advances in tech have ruined livelihoods. 40% of British children go on to university but graduates are ten a penny. If I’m an employer & want to hire a new grad & the work can be done from home, do I take the Brit on £20K, the Hungarian who’ll take £15K or the Indian who’ll take £7K? No British graduate wants to work in retail, as a carer wiping bottoms or be a taxi driver. That’s work for foreigners. This change in world order has affected where people live in this country and whether to emigrate or not. Tech is where it’s at. That’s why King’s Cross, Battersea & Cambridge all look prosperous & shiny but the rest of the UK looks like a slum. Although working from home is common, people still need to come into the office in cities as visibility still counts as the big decisions take place in meetings held in the office & having contacts/networks ensures you’re not on the outside looking in. We’re not the only ones in the Western world with this problem. Greece & Italy produce the highest number of law grads but there are no legal jobs there & they don’t want to be olive pickers. 70% of Portugal is empty. People emigrate to where the jobs are - either legally or illegally, usually headed to an already overcrowded western world. In 5 years’ time, AI & robotics will have kicked in & whoever is in government will look at giving everyone UBI. Then the fun will start. Honesty and integrity matter.

On the surface this seems similar to 1997. But Labour have 2 challenges I suspect they will not overcome that were not the case in 1997 1) They do not have a popular mandate. Yes they have a constitutional one, but they have an incredibly low vote share. This means they will get pressure from the outside immediately. They will have little (probably no) honeymoon period 2) They do not have a clear manifesto for change. Just tinkering. This means that it's a blank sheet of paper as far as many new Labour MPs are concerned. In 1997 Blair had the flagship policies of education reform, internet roll out and the end of cronyism (and cash-for-questions) All Blair's MP's knew what they stood for and what the public expected. He could get little in the way of push back. His own party couldn't suddenly lurch in a new direction because the policies were clear and well known to all. But Starmer does not have that. No-one knows what he stands for, even his own party. Which means the in-fighting between the extreme left and not quite so extreme left will begin immediately. Expect Starmer to be gone in this election cycle, and this election cycle to not last anything like 5 years. Those two things may happen simultaneously, though I suspect Starmer will be replaced and possibly his successor to also go before the next election.

Also the Prime Minister is man who was instrumental in imprisoning a journalist without charge or trial indefinitely in solitary in a cell 3 × 2mts. When chief of the CPS he illegally allowed his correspondence with the US relating to this case to be deleted.

Puppets change, hand remains the same.

Libdems, the quiet assassins

My fear is that because economic progress and public spending is so constrained Labour will go all out on Woke. The Labour revolution will be similar to the SNP and become hectoring and puritanical.

It’s going to be a laugh a minute watching Labour minister blunders on the global stage…😂 it will be the comedy show of 2024. Comics will have a field day..❤

No mention of the Muslim stanglehold Labour has to deal with. Especially in London. The capital city.

Bank of England and IMF now runs the UK.irrespective of prime minister. Level of our debt precludes the luxury of democracy and given all western vountrues in the same mire this is being globally co-ordinated.. Ask Liz Truss. Voting = performative arts at this point in the cycle.

Great analysis, Unherd is staying on top of it!

So the Greens got 4 seats and the Reformers got 4 seats it would have been nice to see how many votes both partys got

The real illusion is that people think voting is the only time that they have a voice. Even when you are voting, you will only be voting for the constituency, not the leader. Are people comfortable with waiting every 4 years to speak out via a ballot paper? As for voting itself, no point in voting when your own constituency has historically voted one way. Even with the ones where Labour won by a small majority, they still won.

I believe Rishi Sunak was/is a good, highly intelligent and extremely hard-working person. But he is not a leader, and he is politically tone-deaf.

One thing i would worry about with Labour is if they go down the PFI route to stimulate the economy and we end up with another big black hole on that again.

I have no idea who Freddie supports. The hallmark of a good journalist/commentator.

ReformUK 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 🇬🇧 all day!!

Landslide is not a word I would use when you delve into the figures / numbers and meaning. If only 1:5 people voted Labour then that's not an overwhelming mandate to take over. What was indicated though is change is needed to make Britain Great again..

🩵🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🇬🇧🩵 5 seats well done REFORM 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧 I’d be interested to know how the 4 independent seats won by the Independent Muslim/Gaza coalition compares to the Reform Party seats won by number of votes cast? Makes the case for proportional representation even more relevant.

New puppets, same agendas. Absolutely nothing has changed.

Superb discussion. I wish the BBC was like this. But then again, you are the new BBC.

One of the main reasons I feel the Tories collapsed in the way that they did is not because they became "centre left" like Reform voters suggest. They just became incredibly statist, a complete antithesis to true small c conservative values. They were ploughing out legislastion constantly, throwing money left, right, and centre as a central policy. That's where I think they failed. They became too heavy a government for people to tolerate anymore. Unfortunately, they've replaced it with Labour, the party of Statism 😅 Plus, the idea that Labour 'won' is astonishing when they just had a landslide from 33% of the popular vote (25% if you count the full electorate). 9 million votes for Labour when the Tories won 13 million in 2019... it's insane. Reform took the Lion's share of that Vote, taking over 4 million. I just think the way a lot of the media are talking, they're ignoring these basic facts to big up Kier Starmer.

Keir Starmer is the NPC meme with hair.

To my mind this video reveals itself as the best election post-mortem discussion I have heard.

Actually, the Government was not punished. The Conservative politicians were punished. Does anyone actually think the Government gives a damn about the voting public? Where is the evidence?

Zero seats failed. This was a trial run boys! We will get both of them next time. 😂

Your name "Unherd" may be unintentionally appropriate...such is life.

It was the tories that let in LD ?? if the choice was just reform they would now have 200 seats 😂😂 Nigel tell them your thoughts !! Sit on the fence at your own peril !! Political correctness is for cowards 😢 God bless common folk

Zero seats. Had to be done.

The apathy is electric 😂

People who voted Lib Dem, as far as I can see, were Conservatives who couldn't bring themselves to vote for Labour as a protest vote, so Lib Dems seem justifiable 😂

Now maybe conservatives can regroup without the bonehead Torry party.

What the labour party wants to do aligns entirely with the institutions of this country, significantly the Civil Service. Add to that the Greens and the Lib Dems are essentially the same although appealing to a more affluent demographic, and Labour have very little opposition. Blair's permanent government will be completed.

I don't know, guys, but as an outsider, knowing Brexit happened, I'd go to vote for sure and choose the least worst candidate. I'm from a country that does not have any viable voting system, so I understand but do not appreciate the low turnout. Gonna root for you all thou, cheers from Eastern Europe.

"Relatively thin, but very broad coalition" sums this peice up perfectly.

Reform all the way 👌👌👌👌🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻

UK has seen Labour Lite for the last years… now it’s going to get the full dose of

1 in 5 people actually voted for Labour. Wow, indeed the electoral system seems to be broken.

In my constituency the Conservative MP lost to Labour by 152 votes. 3144 votes went to Reform This is probably another instance of Labour wining a seat thanks to Reform rather than an endorsement of its policies.

22% of the electorate is not a mandate for ANYTHING

The UK, under Labour, will be hell.

Voter allegiance has fragmented because the demography of the UK has so drastically changed. Traditional British ways of doing things no longer hold sway. There's a popular saying that I can't quite remember, perhaps someone else can? It goes 'Import the...."

Labour are not left, more center right under Starmar

National Service where our UK fit men & women loose their life in Ukraine for BlackRock & Global Financiers can make $ trillions & trillions from Ukraine lithium, oil & gas, & Rich agriculture land.

You won't see in-depth analysis like this on MSM. A very good episode, thank you.

I believe the nation is expressing sub-conscious, suppressed and, to a certain extent, free floating anger rooted in the Covid experience. The fact that incumbent parties are losing worldwide, I think, bears this out.

Very insightful ... Enjoyed the conversation very much

Every 79 to 90 years capitalism has a massive crisis. 2008 was one such event, and it has been in a zombie since, dependent on state support with ordinary people getting poorer and the rich stealling all the wealth. Starmers Labour represents a continuation of this decline and will not last.

Its funny how just a few years ago people were saying 'Labour will NEVER come back from this' and 'The Red Wall is gone FOREVER' just as people were saying the Tory party were no more in the IDS/Howard era. If there is one thing the establishment are good at its maintaining the two party charade. I'd like to say good riddance to the tories...but sadly I think they will be back.

Flip flops starmer

What is really happening is that trad Labour voters, like myself, will not vote for a Tory leader of the Labour Party.

4 out of 5 adults did not vote for them and yet they represent 2 out of 3 in parliament - how does that make sense? If you're not good with fractions I will state fractions with the same bottom number. Only 3 out of 15 voted for them, but they end up representing 12 out of 15 people. So their representation is FOUR times more than it would be under a PR system!! Keir, this is not a true mandate

That was an excellent discussion - something that's very rare, these days

The issue is a silly commentary on first pass the post. It is just a kind of system and the idea to move to pr and ranking would also mean the voter has no idea the exact person who will come in as the vote will be distributed. And refer to Taiwan you can see they can get politicians that the voter does not want (special referendum to kick out on guy and now he becomes effectively prime minister). The first past the post at least for the local guy can kick out whatever you do not like eg all those big guys or ladies in Conservative Party (and even 2 in Labour Party) and force them to be “honest”. With Pr or ranking system than the big Whig will be safe and in. That is also undemocratic in alternative system. And the liberal demo are ignoring this grand narrative of overall vote but trying a local vote strategy. Deliberately.

Voting system needs change

Excellent analysis thanks. You are smashing all the mainstream (unwatchable) channels…

What is also relevant is that we don't know what the 40% of non voters would have voted that is if voting was compulsory which I strongly believe it should be . I'm with Jes Phillips who said when asked about her reduced majority she replied we won.QED

thank you, excellent summary and analysis

Very good talk, lots of great points. Labour can only go downhill from here.

Love them or hate them, Atlee, Thatcher, Blair and Johnson......they had a vision for how Britain should be .......this brings the public with them. Playing safe and being centric , with nothing really to say . This leads to 60% of the electorate not voting

Such good analysis, thank you.

33.7% of the vote share for Labour yet they won a huge majority of seats in Parliament. The system is clearly broken and desperately needs reforming, in reality the new government does not by any stretch represent the will of the majority of the people.

Excellent analysis thank you

FPTP = NFFP (Not Fit For Purpose)

This was an excellent video. From a first time watcher.

Maybe people in the UK are just fed up with politics in general. The Tory party's mismanagement, the let down of Brexit, the appalling premiership of Johnson and Truss and so on have drawn the enthusiasm out of the British public. The Labour Party offer stability but lack the excitement of a new tomorrow coming anytime soon.

Great analysis. Interesting and insightful - really enjoyed it.

Excellent episode, thank you

Beyond Dubious Oligarchy A moves to Beyond Dubious Oligarchy B, where A=B. Big Brother has landed.

Excellent informed analytical conversation (as usual)

Excellent journalism

Great re-cap of it . Thanks

Great chat chaps - echoes and reassures my own thoughts re the rise and rise of Reform and the English Bulldog, Nigel Farage. HIs personality is re-working the scene for Britain's recovery. Britain has sunk low in a chronic depression that the ship of state needs such a fighter and great communicator to haul things back into shape. I'm grateful for your analysis of the fragility factor. An Australian 75yo F of longstanding conservative disposition. Thank you for your excellent site.

No one bothered when the Tories got in with a minority of people voting for them. Get over it. It’s called first past the post.

Reform is not far right it is sensible centre right. That is their greatest advantage, That is, they are underestimated. This vote for Labor is an 'anyone but Tories' vote not because Labor is any good.

Funny to hear folks with posh public school accents noticing the antiquated electoral system in 2024, but not in 2019