A brief overview of all LDS (Mormon) Temple Ordinance changes. This includes changes to the endowment or initiatory ceremonies, as well as the garment worn by the members. uncorrelatedmo...
God is the same yesterday today and forever. Must definitely not be directed of God. I personally don't believe we need any of it. There is only one way to be saved and it is through Christ.
Great chronology and presentation. It all presumes, of course, that Joseph Smith was correct to begin with (or, as you mention at the end, that these ordinances are from God). I read in the Book of Mormon that man is saved only in and through the blood of Christ. The Book of Mormon also only mentions two ordinances (rituals) -- baptism and the sacrament -- neither of which have any inherent salvific power. For reasons I have not yet been able to understand, the simplicity of the Gospel has never been sufficient for the Church. I have also never been able to find a firsthand statement from JS or a revelation about temple garments.
Certainly difficult to find a lot of information in the early church. The Endowment and garment seem to be very late additions by Joseph however it is very unclear as to specifics. I think though that just because Joseph did or said something that doesn't make it true and of God. Polygamy, endowment, garment may have started with Joseph because of Ezekiel 14. In the church we admit that Joseph was "deceived" into allowing Martin the 116 pages, but then Joseph couldn't have been "deceived" on anything else. Masonry was very popular at the time and it makes sense to me that Joseph could have continual asked God about it and then God gave a "revelation" concerning it. God always gives us what we want, however he first tries to give us what we need.
I guess it all depends on who you believe. Watch Who was the first LDS polygamist? By Rob Fatheringham. It’s possible Brigham invented 132 and started his own version of the endorsement. With 5 Masonic lodges in Navoo I guess many were not too shock up by the penalties and such. I don’t believe God would have a threatening endowment. Elements of fear and coercion have no place in God’s Temple or his revelations. You notice how Emma is spoken to in 132 and is threatened to accept the situation or be destroyed. That goes against the principle of agency. Would God threaten His children and trying to exult them?? Sounds more like Satan’s plan to me….but that matches Brigham’s personality if you see many of his quotes. He was a dictator. Kept people in fear in order to control them
@@uncorrelatedmormonism Actually there has been information come up through research showing that Joseph did not practice or preach polygamy. Check out hemlock knots, Rob Fotheringham, 132 problems and other channels here on youtube.
@@daryltanner7747 The Prophet Joseph Smith taught: "Ordinances instituted in the heavens before the foundation of the world, in the priesthood, for the salvation of men, are not to be altered or changed. All must be saved on the same principles." [Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith]
When I was in - 1978 - 1990 - a woman married to a non-member would not be allowed to receive her endowment, only to do baptisms for the dead. Sometime after Ezra Taft Benson became prophet, this was changed.
Well done. Such a thorough presentation of the changes over the last 180ish years. I wonder if there are any changes that you might have missed or that we don't know about.
@@uncorrelatedmormonism Ikr. I had no idea so many changes took place. It must have taken you awhile to compile all of the changes you were able to find. If I find anything I'll return and report.
It seems that some portions of the ordinances were left to the Church leaders to fill in the blanks as it were as time progressed, and other portions were pronounced by God, and not be changed, except by Him as He sees fit. After all, the Unchanging God went from the Law of Moses to the Law of Faith, and yet God is considered unchanging. How? God planned the transition from one law to the next, before the world began. As time progressed, so did the Laws decreed from heaven, from the Law of Moses to the Law of Faith. Joseph Smith stated about the Church: "I teach them correct principles and they govern themselves.” And that is what the Church is doing, with the blessings from heaven.
@@uncorrelatedmormonism Thank goodness God gave me a sure witness the Church is true. It is even as Brigham Young taught: "The Lord Almighty leads this Church, and he will never suffer you to be led astray if you are found doing your duty. You may go home and sleep as sweetly as a babe in its mother’s arms, as to any danger of your leaders leading you astray, for if they should try to do so the Lord would quickly sweep them from the earth. Your leaders are trying to live their religion as far as I am capable of doing so? Yes, I do." (Journal of Discourses, Vol.9:289.) I am sure the Lord might on occasion say to Himself, "Well, I would have done X in a better way than the Church leader did, but it's okay."
@@dddphilosophy What do you mean by "the Church is true". I think generally people use that to mean everything the church does is true and of God. Is that what you mean also? Brigham said that he and other leads couldn't lead the church astray, what does that mean? How does that work? Isn't it convenient that a leader says to follow the leader? Your last sentence seems to imply that the leaders have agency and God is bound by their decisions. Is this what you mean? For instance, if a leader declared that gay marriage is true, is God bound by that? If a leader declared that we all have to wear red socks 24/7 is that now a requirement to get into heaven? Are our leaders more powerful than God? If you think that God would just kill a leader in those cases before they said that, then is there any evidence of that?
@@uncorrelatedmormonism Hmmm. My simple answer triggered 10 questions. I suppose then my 10 answers might each trigger 10 more, equalling 100 questions. Friend, I am not going to get entangled in that. Good luck. evidence of that? Look for the the sign of the prophet Jonas, and there will be your answers. All the best.
This is excellent, again, thank you for all that you do. I will follow up with this as a resource I have a lot to learn. I have been searching for sources from Joseph Smith about temple garments and how this came to be. I’m starting to think that it all happened with Brigham Young which is disconcerting. I am still reeling from learning about blood oath covenants through him and I took a little breather before trying to parse out the temple garments. I think I’m just about ready, you have a clear simple teaching approach and I appreciate this so much.🙏❤️🇺🇸
The problem is our church a.k.a. the Brighamite church is based upon the Nauvoo era. If you study Joseph’s works you’ll know that after Kirtland the Saints had already lost at all. I will add as a matter of prophecy that Joseph had lost his mantle and was a fallen prophet. He had performed that work, lay the cornerstone the book of Mormon. From there on out he had to die to see his testimony or everything was for nothing .You dig really deep, enough for you know everything that they’ve said about why the Saints for chased around his total BS. They were murderous lecherous treacherous wife swapping rampaging county burning mob . The official account of Joseph’s murder is total BS. The watchman of Ephraim know all. All dark works have been brought into the sanitizing light of day. My fellow autistic Carthage researcher is correct in the matter of the murder of Joseph Smith. John Taylor’s body should be exhumed. It was a Brigham Young John Taylor Willard Richards etc. etc. the freemasons all of it. A I am Elias de Peri-Christ the prophet . I say that on top of the book of Mormon is false. The Doctorine and covenants in his present form is illegitimate. And it’s original form it is good but still nonetheless does not apply because it was written to a people who broke all the wa la and lost everything. And instead of Joseph ended up with a megalomaniacal sex predator. I am the end times Davidic servant-king David Benjamin Nephi Lehi Jacob Lehi Jacob Joseph Ben Ali Al Amin the hidden king of the Israelites. We are exactly where Joseph Smith Junior was 200 years ago. Which of these churches shall we join, which has the fullness of the gospel of Jesus Christ? None . I am your servant. 👑👨🦯🗡️🙏👊🤙
Well, as members we are taught that it is a wonderful thing that the church continues to change and be "restored" some more. It means God is still at the head and alive. I guess there is an answer for everything in the church. Now I question those answers.
Thank you. It must have taken quite some time to pull all of this together. I would like to do research on this subject, too, in case someone accuses me of making it up. Where would you suggest someone go to begin gathering source material for this?
10yrs ago I went through the Temple & it wasn’t an amazing experience for me like for some who testifiy it’s a heavenly place. I would go like it was no big deal until my Uncle came to thank me in his own unique way for doing his Temple work. I started to pay more attention to the instructions & one day they really bothered me. If this is the Lord’s House then why is He allowing this? Do I take my concerns to the Bishop or Stake President? I got into it with the Bishop before when I told him the Lord wants me off of depression medications. I obeyed the Lord & proved the Bishop wrong. I took my concerns about the Temple to the Lord. I didn’t want to go back because how it made me feel. Then I heard about the first adjustments & I went back. Those things that bothered me were removed & I could start to feel it’s a heavenly place. I haven’t been back since the pandemic started & a lot of people told me it’s more spiritual. I always tell people you must behave in the Temple. Before the pandemic I went with a friend & the seat would squeak. I could make the seat squeak on purpose & I’m like not now. I need to focus on the instructions but the kid in me focused on that squeak. My friend caught on what I was doing & he hits me. We start laughing but we knew the Lord wasn’t pleased. We stopped laughing but the kid in me still wanted to make that seat squeak. I tried but that seat would not squeak again & I knew the Lord got that seat fixed because nothing can be out of order in His House.
Any one can find happiness when they let the Lord into there lives. I was born under the covenant & my parents dragged me into the Church. I never had a testimony & left when I was 16. My life was hell & I would attack the Mormons. It wasn’t until I about ended a Mormons life 20yrs later. I hated how I felt & turned to God. I hated how I felt & took a dusty BoM off the self. I prayed with that book & when I opened my eyes that book was opened & there highlighted was 3rd Nephi 11:29-30. It was as if I could hear the Lord talking to me telling me I have the Spirit of contention from the Devil & such things should be done away. After I read away I felt the hand of the Lord remove all that anger from me. My Spiritual eyes were opened & I was ashamed of my wicked ways. I went back with opened arms but it wasn’t easy. When I was trying to get to the Temple I got into a relationship & started having doubts about the Church. I ended up being incarcerated & was going to prison. I pleaded with the Lord to save me & promised to follow Him if he would. There was a miracle in that court room & had many witnesses of how the Lord changed the Judge’s heart. The Judge lowered his head saying he didn’t know why but couldn’t send me there. I’ve been faithful to the Lord ever since & had so many experiences that has blessed my life. I do not follow Church leaders & I only follow the Lord. There’s things in the Church I don’t agree with but the Lord will take care of me when I follow Him. I know the Church isn’t perfect but I will never doubt the Lord ever again.
You stated that in 1990, women no longer had to covenant to obey their husbands. However, I went through in 2008 and it still had women covenanting to “hearken to” - or oney - her husband “as he hearkens to the Lord”🙄. Always hated that with my whole soul. It never felt right. That went on until 2019, I think??? Also, another thing I consider a massive change is that Brigham Young stated that only ONE person on earth at a time could have the sealing power… yet we have multiple “sealers” in every temple. Changes abound. Without revelation, common consent, or information, and we put our heads down and go with it. Now to learn about Freemasonry and Brigham, Heber, and subsequent church presidents’ deep involvement in that, comparing it to the temple today.
Actually Brigham was not as involved in freemasonry as Joseph and hyram. Joseph actually tasked Brigham to perfect the endowment. He didn't finish that until 1877, the dedication of the st. George temple. At that time the Restoration was complete.
@@rolandsmith4394 What do you mean it was "complete" in 1877? According to D&C 77:15 the restoration will happen while the 2 prophets are working to turn the Jews back to Christ.
@@rolandsmith4394 Joseph also always talked about Elijah coming as a future event therefore I think there is far more to the "restoration" than we are taught in sunday school. For instance on Oct 3rd 1841, Joseph said "He shall send Elijah the Prophet, and restore all things in Christ".
Do you have a link to the original documents that show Joseph Smith mentioning the garments and the markings on them? I haven't found anything yet. Thanks.
The earliest I know of is a diary entry July 10, 1844. Maybe there is something better, but there is almost no direct information concerning thinks like the temple ordinances or garment. "It was while they were living in Nauvoo that the Prophet came to my mother, who was a seamstress by trade, and told her that he had seen the Angel Moroni with the garments on, and asked her to assist in cutting out the garments. They spread unbleached muslin out on the table and he told her how to cut it out. She had to cut the third pair, however, before he said it was satisfactory. She told the prophet that there would be sufficient cloth from the knee to the ankle to make a pair of sleeves, but he told her he wanted as few seams as possible and that there would be sufficient whole cloth to cut the sleeve without piecing. The first garments were made of unbleached muslin and bound with turkey red and were without collars. Later on the prophet decided he would rather have them bound with white. Sister Emma Smith, the Prophet's wife, proposed that they have a collar on as she thought they would look more finished, but at first the prophet did not have the collars on them. After Emma Smith had made the little collars which were not visible from the outside of the dress, Sister Eliza R. Snow made a collar of fine white material which was worn on the outside of the dress. The garment was to reach to the ankle and the sleeves to the wrist. The marks were always the same." - Diary of James T.S. Allred; Letter to Col. Williams; [Microfilm d.1021/f.92, end of roll #2 (July 10, 1844)] LDS Church Archives, Salt Lake City
@@uncorrelatedmormonism The Bible doesn't mention the Mormon church, Where did it come from it's not the church that Jesus started like the Mormons are lying to people ( Deuteronomy 28:68, Isaiah 5:13, Luke 21:24 this the church and where is it in Captivity slavery all of the world until the return of Jesus, It's written in the Bible
Joseph Smith had nothing to do with the temple endowment. When he talks about ordinances he is referring to the same thing he taught in the original articles of faith.
@@uncorrelatedmormonismit’s an article that critics love to ignore after reading article 3. They immediately associate it with the false ordinances of the temple. No. We are saved by faith, through the laws and ordinances. They forget that when being faithful to these ordinances, you can’t just “do good works and you’re saved” we are not saved by works, it is not the good things we do that’s saving us. We need to do these good things selflessly and in full self sacrifice without regard to ourselves nor our reward. Well how the hell are we expected to do that? You can’t choose whether or not your motives are selfless, and you can’t do good works if you aren’t selfless, so how can I save myself? You can’t. Which is why it says, you’re saved by FAITH through the laws and ordinances. Faith is shown by works, works are done through faith. It isn’t your fault that your actions aren’t selfless, YOU can not change your own heart. But through faith, your heart can be changed by God, Jesus Christ. As Paul says, And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing. You can proclaim to be a Christian, you can mean it too, and you can do NOTHING but good works all your life, but without charity, or pure selfless intent, it’s worth nothing. And it is faith in Christ that gives you this charity. The Book of Mormon is very clear about this, “let it not be believed that you will be saved in sin, but that you will be saved FROM sin” it is through Christ that our hearts are cleansed from sin, that we may one day become sinless divine men, purely and unwearily obedient to the laws and ordinance of the gospel, and thus, you are saved by faith. Through the laws and ordinances of the gospel
@@zrosix2240 The part of the atonement that is "free" is resurrection and returning to some degree of Heaven. No cost, no works, no magic prayers, no one you have to believe in; literally free through the grace of God. (And part of the blessing of choosing to come to Earth in the first place, right?) The part of the atonement that isn't free is the exaltation part--the part where your behavior and choices, including making and keeping covenants, will impact your inheritance.
There are a few things left out I think are significant, for example, we have the temple ceremonies of the Kirtland Temple in the Doctrine and Covenants and the exact outline of the temple. The original Nauvoo Tempke was designed the same as Kirtland with the exception to a baptisty in the basement and the attic rooms made for endowments and sealing. . I look forward to temple changes of the future if they are restorative in nature. For example, God has already revealed to Ezekiel a lot of things pertaining to latter day temple ordinances we don't do.
It’s true that the nauvoo temple is literally just a larger and more ornate version of the Kirtland temple, much like herods temple compared to Solomon’s.
@@keepinitreal938 Yes in the past there have been changes made to shorten the time but the recent change is actually an addition to help clarify things that some people had misinterpreted.
@@darcyharefeld211 Yes, I like that they explain before hand now. More has been changed in the past than just to "shorten time". I no longer have to be naked wearing an open shield. For men and smaller chested women that was probably easier to deal with but for me it was very uncomfortable and awkward. I dreaded it. Thankfully that was changed.
You'll never get a straight answer why the changes occurred. The 1846 ordinance (Nauvoo) is much different from today. Even the changes from 1990 (penalties) are radical from today. The washings and anointing is also much different from 2005.
It is crazy to me that members will say only the "presentation changed". This is obviously not true. Entire sections have been removed, oaths and penalties have been removed or drastically changed, and covenants have been changed. There is no way a Nauvoo mormon would recognize the endowment today.
@@grayman7208 I don't want to be rude, however that is frankly a silly nonsensical answer. 1. You are assuming that the changings are requested by God based on what? The church never says God asked them to do so, they just do it. We used to get the actual words of God now we just get talks about vague feelings. The members believe the leaders meet with God every Thursday in the temple however this is just fanciful rumor that the leaders encourage to be spread. When actually pressed the leaders always say they have never met God or heard his voice. If we change one thing and God didn't ask for it then it is no longer his. 2. You are assuming that the members are spiritually improving based on what? I have been in the EQ, and Bishopric leadership positions and frankly from what I have seen the church is slowly dying. The men in the church are serious struggling with porn, scripture study, and general activity. This somehow equates to us being "ready" for more truth from God? The church today sees no miracles or signs of divine acceptance yet we are "ready" for more truth from God. I seriously don't understand how people can believe these things.
@@uncorrelatedmormonism i don't want to be rude, however, frankly, your comment is nonsensical gibberish. the scriptures (ALL scriptures ... old / new testament, BoM, d&c etc) are perfectly clear. god will give guidance to us when we are ready for it. that does not mean "you" as an individual, it means "us" as a people. every individual is different ... as new guidance is given ... some people are able to accept and follow faster than others are. jesus himself, and the early apostles made that very clear. we have a term for that "line upon line, precept upon precept" perhaps ( i guarantee ) god, sees more than you do, and is aware of more than you are. your ward, your EQ, your stake, etc may have these problems ... ( and you assume they are problems in the church worldwide - with no evidence ) but they are the same problems mankind has always had throughout history. nothing new there. these problems have always been there ... even in the l.d.s. church. that is why we continue to ask forgiveness, take the sacrament, go to bishop's interviews, go to the temple, and re-commit, again and again and again.
@@grayman7208 I don't understand your point in that comment. You are saying God gives us guidance. Is anyone disagreeing with that? Various regions of the church struggle with different things, however do you seriously think we are more righteous today than 100 years ago, or even the Kirtland era of the church? It is thinking like this that is so strange to me.
Interesting article. I wish I had your email, because I have a lot to say this, but let me start with this. Before my mission, my Patriarch blessed me that I would understand the endowment. After I started going to the temple regularly, I quickly realized that the only things that mattered in the process were the washing and anointing and the 5 covenants. Everything else was just fluff, religious ritual, so I did not pay a whole lot of attention to it. If there were changes to clothing or garments or the story or the ceremony, it was no big deal. The Lord sanctified me in 1983 and my eyes were opened to a new way of looking at things. In 1984, after doing ann endowment session, I was alone in the Celestial Room and Jesus came in and asked me what I wanted to know. I told him I wanted to know everything the ancients knew, the hidden things and I specifically mentioned the creation of the world. He said, "OK" and left. I wondered what that was all about. A few days later, I was reading the creation story with my wife and suddenly the vision of what we were reading opened up in my mind, like having a memory. It seemed like something I had actually witness. Let me tell you, That whole creation sequence is nothing compared to the truth. I have revisited the vision many times and people just do not have a clue as to how things are really created. If we should become friends, I would like to tell you the truth about the creation. When we come to the story of Adam and Eve, all I am going to tell you that father God came down with one of his Wives and she gave birth to Adam and Eve. They were born, just like the rest of us. The idea of Adam and Eve being created as adults is a myth perpetrated by the Catholic church. The Lord showed me that the whole sequence with Adam and Eve and Father and Jesus and the devil and receiving the first sign and token did not happen that way. The truth is that Joseph Smith when he was visited by the Father and the son, was given the first sign and token of the priesthood. He shook hands with Jesus. This is how he was able to testify that Jesus was tangible. He never told anybody because of the covenant to not reveal it. He was given the sign and token because he was told about being visited by other heavenly messengers and he was to give the signs and token to make sure the visitors were from God. He gave the signs and tokens to Moroni and John the Baptist and knew they were real. The sequence about Adam and Eve being visited by Peter, James and John and the preacher and the devil, was actually the history of Joseph and Oliver when they received the higher priesthood. Joseph and Oliver were camped out by the river and a traveling minister came by and talked to them about religion saying an angel had called him. The devil appeared to them as an angel of light. Joseph extended his hand to the angel and when the angel put out his hand, Joseph's hand passed right through it. Peter, James and John came by as travelers and they talked. The minister was converted and the devil was cast out and then Peter, James and John revealed who they really were, Joseph gave them the sign and token he had received from Jesus. The Apostles then took them down to the river and washed them and anointed them and gave them a garment that they had brought with them. They conferred the priesthood on them. They gave them the covenants and the signs and tokens. The ceremony at the veil was not revealed until the temple was built in Kirkland. The other temple clothing did not come into being until the Nauvoo period when Joseph got involved with the Masons. But that is another story for another day
Thank you. I thought about sharing more of my personal opinion, however many have stated that it is nice that I don't. I want to generally share my opinion, however strictly do so in a neutral way based on the scriptures.
It had to change after the last changes 4 years ago because Sterling Van Waggenon was arrested and jailed on child molestation. He was the guy who made the "new" temple films around 2013. He was arrested in 2018 and shortly thereafter the videos went to stills. You would think God would have not allowed SVW to be the producer... but what do I know about the gift of discernment. John Dehlin on his Mormon Stories Podcast did 3 or so videos with on of the then young boy who was molested by SVW. Yeah, the church knew. Wikileaks shelters the boys name as "David" but he has since come forth and published his story.
They are building, what I was told by a local member, the church is building its 3ed largest Temple in Heber City, Utah( close to Park City on the Wasatch back). When Provo is 45 mins away, Timpanogos Temple is less than one hour, and SLC Temple is 1 hour away. And I understand they have run out of names for members to use to baptize 4 the dead, those none 4 the endowment and are re-cycling them to keep members busy and coming.
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; and having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, and not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God. Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, (touch not; taste not; handle not; which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men? Colossians 2:13-22 KJV
Thanks for all your research. That was interesting. I understand why changes were made, and the covenants remain the same, but I am sure glad i get to wear soft, stretchy cotton blend garments, my choice, instead of the muslim ones of years past, and even more glad we do not wear the leather, sheep leather if I recall correctly, that Adam and those he passed it down to over time wore. Some of the latest changes, which do not change the covenants, were made because of prophecies being fulfilled. I, for one, appreciate how women have been listened to and adapted for.
Sterling Van Wagenen directed the endowment movies in 2013, then some news came out about him in 2019. This may possibly explain why the movies were quickly swapped out with still images, they are much faster to produce on a short timeline.
Yep, and easier to translate and use worldwide. I expect we'll see even more streamlined versions of the presentation as more work needs to be done at a quicker pace.
1965 "Embrace at the Veil removed" ??? I went through the Temple Much Later than that year, and we still had the embrace of the Five Points of Fellowship through the veil. Was there some other type of Embrace at the Veil, other than the Five Points of Fellowship? (so were there TWO embraces at the Veil prior to 1965?)
The 5 points were removed in 1990. It seems in some cases at the Cardston temple the "embrace at the veil" was taken quite literally as was deemed inappropriate to the women. This was awkward because it was for a prolonged time. President McKay issued clarification that the embrace should not be a full embrace.
@@uncorrelatedmormonism Oh that's interesting. However, that would mean it wasn't really an embrace that was "removed," but more of a clarification of the _type_ of embrace. Since the embrace of the Five Points of Fellowship was copied from Freemasonry, I guess the embrace between two Fellows at a men's lodge, would not have been seen as problematic. But it was problematic when all the persons officiating behind the veil were always male, and the patrons could be female.
@@eclipse-sh1qmZ3mOtcua These ritual embraces in temples go back thousands of years, you can find them depicted on Egyptian temple walls, for example (e.g. see Bruce Porter and Egyptian Temples). They are first temple practices. Freemasonry wasn't the source of this symbolism, but it did keep some of the forms of the rites. You can find those forms in many places, including mundane things like modern marriage ceremonies.
@@phadrus The LDS Temple signs tokens, and the previous penalties, as well as the Five Points of Fellowship, the Apron etc. are direct copies of the same items in Freemasonry. I realize True Believers will go to all kinds of lengths to cherry pick things out of history and anywhere else to convince themselves of what they want to believe. It's wrong to do that and leads people to believe things that are WRONG. True Believers who believe their eternity rests on proving their viewpoint, do a terrible disservice to the people of the world. The FACTS are: the signs, the tokens, the handshakes, and the penalties were copied directly from Freemasonry. And Freemasonry, in the past, and at the time of Joseph Smith, claimed that all of these originated in the Israelite Temple at Jerusalem. It was a story they concocted to increase membership at a time when Stone Masonry evolved into Freemasonry. I have read the Masonic Books on this topic and the research done by the Masonic Research Lodge into the origins. They proved that the rituals, the handshakes, the signs and the tokens were all created by the men of the Stone Mason's Guild in medieval times in Northern England. They emphatically state these rituals, handshakes, the apron and the symbolism were all created by the men of the Guild, and they do NOT go back any further than medieval times in Northern England. The stories about their secrets going back to the Israelite Temple and even Egyptian Temples were all concocted by the men of the guild. If you had access to the books of A high level Freemason you would see that much of our LDS Temple is EXACTLY the same as Freemasonry, including the signs and tokens, and the previous penalties, and the Five Points of Fellowship. Where do you think the compass and square of the LDS Temple came from? Those are TOOLS used by Stone Masons, as is the Apron. Aprons were both a protection and a place to carry tools. Are you going to tell me that the compass and the square on our Holy Garments go back to the Israelite temple? Please don't make yourself look foolish. They originated as TOOLS. Work tools of the Stone Mason. The signs and tokens were the means whereby the highest level of skill of a workman, a qualified member of the Stone Masons' Guild, could demonstrate to the Foreman what his skill level was. Upon arriving at a work site the Guild member would give the Foreman the handshake belonging to his highest level of skill. Bit by bit, as a Stone Mason's skill increased, he would be iniated into the next highest level of handshake.
Contracts and Temple Covenants: In our law which is just, self-ownership (personal sovereignty ) must exist if one is to be free, hence subject to judgement under the law. Contracts, similar to Covenants, are nullified in law when the person entering the contract is: 1.) Uninformed. 2.) Pressured. 3.) Deceived. Temple Covenants are invalidated for any one or all of those same reasons: 1.) When Secret because the new candidate on entering into the Temple “Covenants” is uninformed. In other words, one must fully understand what are the Temple Covenants that one will make before deciding to go on a Church mission or deciding to be Temple married for which the Church requires the “Covenants” be taken. They cannot be secret. 2.) When Pressure of any kind exist, then the Covenants are invalid. The Church has an incentive to use pressure because it is a beneficiary of each new Covenant faithfully lived. It gains for itself the promise that one’s time, labor, and life choices shall satisfy whatever it may require of the inductee. While creating and administering the Covenants to new missionaries and to new couples married in the Temple, the Church is creating pressure by claiming that it is the only right and true Church, and that its Temple Covenants must be entered into if one is to gain exaltation in the next life. 3.) When the Church Misrepresents itself to the Temple candidate, the Covenants are invalidated. The Church is a party to the Covenants, it benefits from them, it creates and administers them. It therefore has an obligation to the other party, the Temple candidate, who is trusting the Church’s representation to be honest. Unfortunately, the Church is manipulating the Candidate, hiding information about itself, giving false and deceptive and misleading and incomplete information, thereby invalidating the Covenants because consent is uninformed. www.fnhenderson.us/TempleTemptations.pdf
1) They are hardly secret. The covenants show up in general church publications. I do think the church could do more to prepare people in general, but the few things that are "secret" are pretty minimal and non-threatening. 2) I don't personally see any pressure. You're asked if you don't want to go through with it you can bail. If you were prepared, you should have a fundamental idea of what is going on in the temple, at least. Mostly covenants that LDS people are already keeping, and these are teaching patterns in the temple. 3) How is the church misrepresenting itself, exactly? No offense, but I just don't see much power in your argument here.
That is actually the Kirtland temple which was the first temple that the LDS church built. There is a lot of speculation about what the endowment was that happened in that building. Some say it was the beginning of the modern endowment others say it was just a spiritual outpouring. It is however today owned by the Community of Christ and not related to the LDS church at all. D&C 110:9 (Original manuscript) does state though that the Kirtland temple will be used again for spiritual power.
@@uncorrelatedmormonism There is no proof that Joseph had anything to do with the endowment that Brigham presented. I don't trust any records that show things being given for Brigham to do unless they are in Joseph's handwriting. So so much was altered after Joseph's murder. But thanks for the excellent video.
There has always been, and always will be, oppositions to God's work; that's why it's critically important to read, study and pray. Ask God if He still supports, this, His Church. When He, God, and His Son, Jesus Christ Restored His Church, it was 'born'. As it grows to maturity, it needs adjusted just as parents adjust style, and proceedures, raising their children. I KNOW THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS is the Lord's church on the earth today. I know we are led today, and have been led since the 1830s, by a Living Prophet. I can't explain everything, but i can tell you that as the adversary plants these thoughts in your head, take them to the Lord in prayer. Be humble, be honest and listen to His answer. As always, THE TRUTH IS IN CHRIST.
Thank you for the testimony. I have prayed, studied, and deeply thought about things. The LDS church is not what you think it is and membership in a church will not change your standing before God. In the future there will be true servants of God that will pull God's people out of Babylon, and I fear most LDS will not listen to them because they would rather listen to prophets that don't prophecy, seers that don't see, and revelators that don't reveal. The LDS people today are so deceived that they believe a new lesson manual is a divine sign from God. If the God of the universe is only capable of lesson manuals then why would I worship him? The LDS people are led by very good men of Babylon. I want to be led by men of God instead.
@@uncorrelatedmormonismI think you’ve been deceived on many things. As President Holland has said, God uses imperfect people to run his church. I question the integrity of talking about certain Church related things while not having a testimony of the Church. I’m not understanding the reason for your channel and what you are trying to accomplish. The members are to bring people into the Church, as membership is necessary requirement to obtaining all ordinances to be exalted. The Church is true and will stand the test of time. No unhallowed hand can destroy it. The Church is the stone cut without hands. Please reply.
One point missing is the importance of adaptation in different languages and cultures. Many of the recent changes are influenced by translation difficulties.
@@uncorrelatedmormonism The switch in 2019 to still pictures was explained to me as accompanying offering the endowment in 50% more languages. Since sentences in different languages take different amount of time to speak.
@@brettmajeske3525 There's also the fact that the guy who directed at least one of the new movies was found to be a child molester or something. There's always a 'real' reason, it seems.
@@brettmajeske3525 Added bonus of shortening it by 15 minutes. Makes a big difference when you have already sat through it a bazillion (it feels like) times.
Haha..yup. Whatever that event was has passed.🤪 Patrick, It would be great to know when you are recording so we can 'try' to keep the chaos at bay for a time.
One quick question. Why do LDS build so many temples, seeing this world is passing away and there will be a new heaven and new earth? Why do they have temple marriage ceremonies when Jesus said in Matthew 22:30. For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
Building temples is a false sign of prosperity. In the churches mind, if they have many ornately decorated buildings then they are blessed by God. However this is exactly what the great civilizations of Babylon always think. In that scripture, Christ was contrasting the things of man with the things of God. I am not sure if there will be marriage in the next life. It does seem to be that if you have someone in this life that is more precious to you than anything else, then they would continue to be very special in the next life. I know people have speculated that we will no longer know each other in the next life. However, this would require God to remove almost all of our human knowledge for it to work. It is strange and certainly doesn't make any sense. Are we no longer capable of love and affection in the next life? Are we soulless robots whose only purpose is to check a box?
@@uncorrelatedmormonismThe whole purpose of temples is to become like God. He is married forever. So can we. This topic is just not really appropriate to discuss on social media. Are you an active member of the Church? Do you hold the priesthood and follow the prophet and doctrine of the Church?
@@donaldjones9830 by following other doctrines you are lead to a false Jesus. The Bible warns of this in many scriptures . Also, in 2 John 1:9 “Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.” We must study and know God’s word, the Holy Bible less we will be deceived. We are living in an ocean of deception and only the pure Light of the Word will lead us to the true Jesus Christ, Gods only begotten Son, who died for our sins and was resurrected by the power of God.
They are not given in marriage or divorced once in Heaven. Where you go after the melinium is decided in the final judgement after the melinium. By then you will know if you are willing to spend eternity with your spouse or not. Temples will be used during the melinium. More might be built during that time. Some might not be completed until after the second coming.
Isaiah 28: 1 Woe to the crown of pride, to the drunkards of Ephraim, whose glorious beauty is a fading flower, which are on the head of the fat valleys of them that are overcome with wine! 2 Behold, the Lord hath a mighty and strong one, which as a tempest of hail and a destroying storm, as a flood of mighty waters overflowing, shall cast down to the earth with the hand. 3 The crown of pride, the drunkards of Ephraim, shall be trodden under feet: 4 And the glorious beauty, which is on the head of the fat valley, shall be a fading flower, and as the hasty fruit before the summer; which when he that looketh upon it seeth, while it is yet in his hand he eateth it up. 5 In that day shall the Lord of hosts be for a crown of glory, and for a diadem of beauty, unto the residue of his people, 6 And for a spirit of judgment to him that sitteth in judgment, and for strength to them that turn the battle to the gate. 7 But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment. 8 For all tables are full of vomit and filthiness, so that there is no place clean. 29: 3 And I will camp against thee round about, and will lay siege against thee with a mount, and I will raise forts against thee. 4 And thou shalt be brought down, and shalt speak out of the ground, and thy speech shall be low out of the dust, and thy voice shall be, as of one that hath a familiar spirit, out of the ground, and thy speech shall whisper out of the dust. 30: 1 Woe to the rebellious children, saith the Lord, that take counsel, but not of me; and that cover with a covering, but not of my spirit, that they may add sin to sin: 31: 4 For thus hath the Lord spoken unto me, Like as the lion and the young lion roaring on his prey, when a multitude of shepherds is called forth against him, he will not be afraid of their voice, nor abase himself for the noise of them: so shall the Lord of hosts come down to fight for mount Zion, and for the hill thereof. 5 As birds flying, so will the Lord of hosts defend Jerusalem; defending also he will deliver it; and passing over he will preserve it. 31: 9 Rise up, ye women that are at ease; hear my voice, ye careless daughters; give ear unto my speech. 10 Many days and years shall ye be troubled, ye careless women: for the vintage shall fail, the gathering shall not come. 11 Tremble, ye women that are at ease; be troubled, ye careless ones: strip you, and make you bare, and gird sackcloth upon your loins. 12 They shall lament for the teats, for the pleasant fields, for the fruitful vine. 13 Upon the land of my people shall come up thorns and briers; yea, upon all the houses of joy in the joyous city: 14 Because the palaces shall be forsaken; the multitude of the city shall be left; the forts and towers shall be for dens for ever, a joy of wild asses, a pasture of flocks; 15 Until the spirit be poured upon us from on high, and the wilderness be a fruitful field, and the fruitful field be counted for a forest. 16 Then judgment shall dwell in the wilderness, and righteousness remain in the fruitful field. 17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. 18 And my people shall dwell in a peaceable habitation, and in sure dwellings, and in quiet resting places; 19 When it shall hail, coming down on the forest; and the city shall be low in a low place. 2 Neohi 3: 7 Yea, Joseph truly said: Thus saith the Lord unto me: A choice seer will I raise up out of the fruit of thy loins; and he shall be esteemed highly among the fruit of thy loins. And unto him will I give commandment that he shall do a work for the fruit of thy loins, his brethren, which shall be of great worth unto them, even to the bringing of them to the knowledge of the covenants which I have made with thy fathers. 8 And I will give unto him a commandment that he shall do none other work, save the work which I shall command him. And I will make him great in mine eyes; for he shall do my work. 9 And he shall be great like unto Moses, whom I have said I would raise up unto you, to deliver my people, O house of Israel. 10 And Moses will I raise up, to deliver thy people out of the land of Egypt. 11 But a seer will I raise up out of the fruit of thy loins; and unto him will I give power to bring forth my word unto the seed of thy loins-and not to the bringing forth my word only, saith the Lord, but to the convincing them of my word, which shall have already gone forth among them. 12 Wherefore, the fruit of thy loins shall write; and the fruit of the loins of Judah shall write; and that which shall be written by the fruit of thy loins, and also that which shall be written by the fruit of the loins of Judah, shall grow together, unto the confounding of false doctrines and laying down of contentions, and establishing peace among the fruit of thy loins, and bringing them to the knowledge of their fathers in the latter days, and also to the knowledge of my covenants, saith the Lord. 13 And out of weakness he shall be made strong, in that day when my work shall commence among all my people, unto the restoring thee, O house of Israel, saith the Lord. 14 And thus prophesied Joseph, saying: Behold, that seer will the Lord bless; and they that seek to destroy him shall be confounded; for this promise, which I have obtained of the Lord, of the fruit of my loins, shall be fulfilled. Behold, I am sure of the fulfilling of this promise; 15 And his name shall be called after me; and it shall be after the name of his father. And he shall be like unto me; for the thing, which the Lord shall bring forth by his hand, by the power of the Lord shall bring my people unto salvation. D&C 113: 3 What is the rod spoken of in the first verse of the 11th chapter of Isaiah, that should come of the Stem of Jesse? 4 Behold, thus saith the Lord: It is a servant in the hands of Christ, who is partly a descendant of Jesse as well as of Ephraim, or of the house of Joseph, on whom there is laid much power. 5 What is the root of Jesse spoken of in the 10th verse of the 11th chapter? 6 Behold, thus saith the Lord, it is a descendant of Jesse, as well as of Joseph, unto whom rightly belongs the priesthood, and the keys of the kingdom, for an ensign, and for the gathering of my people in the last days. 7 Questions by Elias Higbee: What is meant by the command in Isaiah, 52d chapter, 1st verse, which saith: Put on thy strength, O Zion-and what people had Isaiah reference to? 8 He had reference to those whom God should call in the last days, who should hold the power of priesthood to bring again Zion, and the redemption of Israel; and to put on her strength is to put on the authority of the priesthood, which she, Zion, has a right to by lineage; also to return to that power which she had lost. 9 What are we to understand by Zion loosing herself from the bands of her neck; 2d verse? 10 We are to understand that the scattered remnants are exhorted to return to the Lord from whence they have fallen; which if they do, the promise of the Lord is that he will speak to them, or give them revelation. See the 6th, 7th, and 8th verses. The bands of her neck are the curses of God upon her, or the remnants of Israel in their scattered condition among the Gentiles. Have no fear the #Davidicservant is here! #kingDavidAPrince #endtimesservant #CleanseTheChurches #ConfoundFalseDoctorines #ALightInTheDarkness #BOMfinalTwoThirds #hearldofchrist #perichrist #JosephRidesAgain #iMetJoseohSmith #iAmYourServant 👑👨🦯🗡️🧎🙏👊🤙
Joseph actually tasked Brigham with perfecting the wording. Time was short for Joseph in 1844. He knew it. God promised Joseph the Sealing Power in 1830-ish. Because of wickedness in Joseph's family (Emma) it didn't actually happen until the end, and then only on a limited basis.
@@rolandsmith4394 Hmm now Emma was wicked? Where are you getting this information. Emma is always hailed as wonderful and righteous. I guess unless you are going off of her not being happy that joseph married 22 wives without her knowing. I'd be mad If I found out my husband did that too.
@@keepinitreal938 Emma set up a false church and enthroned her oldest male as its head. I'd call that wicked. She also tried to lead the church away from Joseph. She also called him a "coward" when he tried to lead the church West. Nobody can look objectively at what Emma did to Joseph and call it anything but wicked.
@@rolandsmith4394 Actually I think it was Brigham who led the church away from Emma. He made up a new endowment, stopped allowing blacks the priesthood, made up blood oaths, started polygamy and on and on. It was Brigham and Heber who were life long masons. Joseph supposedly just before his death did the whole mason thing in one day. How interesting since that was never done. I guess just one more record that Brigham had to change.
How so when the wording, actions, and other party have changed in some cases. Members used to make covenants to avenge the blood of the prophets, now they don't. Women used to make covenants with their husbands to obey them, now they don't. Members used to make covenants that their throat would be cut if they divulged the ceremony, now they don't. I would honestly say very little of the endowment or washing ceremony is as it was originally.
You are kidding yourself to say this. I have been going for 22 years and it looks nothing like it did when I first went through. I can't even imagine if I had gone through pre 1990. Being touched naked was bad enough.
@@keepinitreal938 I remember after the naked touching was changed I went in there naked, like always, and then the worker looked at me like I was an idiot and told me they had never done it naked. It was from someone I had seen in the temple for years. I wondered if it was a mandela effect or people in the church just mentally think the present has always been the current state. I have seen this effect numerous times. The church changes something and then the past is totally forgotten like it never happened.
@@uncorrelatedmormonism lol. Yes, I remember being so relieved when that changed. Which is why it blows my mind that people are on here saying that nothing has changed. I knew someone who was told in the celestial room that they were not to talk about the death oaths/penalties even in the celestial room because once something in the church is changed we don't talk about it again. It's like instead of acknowledging our history they pretend it never happened....except that it did happen.
There is very little in common with Freemasonic oaths and rituals. Some of the symbols overlapp, but that is true because the Freemason's use a lot of ancient symbols. The compass and square can be found throughout the world and throughout history. It's an ancient symbol, just as hand clasps, and prayer circles go back thousands of years.
I will just note, they’ve been using what appears to be a good deal of AI photoshopping in at least one of the films: In the one I saw last November, it took its stills from the “bald Satan” film (iykyk), but completely replaced the Satan actor with someone who wasn’t bald. He also appeared to have 6 fingers on one hand when the apostles show up to confront him. Then Adam and Eve appear in modern temple dress in a Temple-style Terrestrial room, which had to be photoshopped or AI-generated.
@@uncorrelatedmormonism Definitely looks cheaper, but I’d also think it allows more flexibility for future changes (since higher ups have stated “changes are good and *will* continue”). No need to change the video when they update the words used in whatever they need to change next.
Isaiah 24: “4 The earth mourneth and fadeth away, the world languisheth and fadeth away, the haughty people of the earth do languish. 5 The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, (changed the ordinance,)broken the everlasting covenant. 6 (Therefore )hath (the curse)(devoured the earth,)(and they )that dwell therein (are desolate:)therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left. 7 The new wine mourneth, the vine languisheth, all the merryhearted do sigh.” Notice the Word DESOLATE?? The Abomination of DESOLATIONS!!!) ???
My lord and savior Jesus Christ died and ripped the veil down saying it’s done and from that point forward you are saved by grace alone not works least any man may boast. God also said he did NOT dwell in the temples of men. I mean how prose do you have to be to think you can build something good enough for God. All this talking about men when you should talk about Jesus
We are saved by the grace of God, after all that we can do. The scriptures tell us (and I'm paraphrasing) show me thy faith without thy works and I will show thee my faith by my works. If we're true disciples of Christ we will be engaged in good works (though not to gain the glory of men but to glorify God, as we're told not to let our left hand know what our right hand is doing). As far as building something good enough for God, we build his temples just like Solomon built his temple. It is literally the house of the lord where we make and receive promises with our father in heaven.
@@homeofthebrave2554 God's Word says that we are saved by grace through faith in Christ Jesus and not by our own efforts or works (Ephesians 2:8-9). Grace Alone. Faith Alone. Grace alone means that God loves, forgives, and saves us not because of who we are or what we do, but because of the work of Christ.
@@homeofthebrave2554 Solomon built SOLOMON'S TEMPLE to glorify SOLOMON. (see Matthew 12:6 and 39-42, 43-45). Why do you think Jesus completely RENOUNCED it? (Matthew 23) [non-jst Bible].
For some I agree. The overall point is the "everlasting ordinances" are not very everlasting. I am fine with changes, but when the church never releases any kind of "thus saith the Lord" statements then how do we know the changes are of God and not man? Children of certain parents were restricted baptism based on an undeniable "revelation" according to President Nelson. Then a couple years later this was downgraded to a well meaning policy.
I added links in the blog where I could find online sources. The rest I added the source itself under the section. Thanks for the request. I was being a bit lazy, but I know that is not good. 😃
At 21:45. The new 2013 endowment film had CGI graphics and a Sarah Jessica Parker look a like actress. There was also bald Satan who dressed like a character from Star Trek. That film was shown only in some temples.
I am not sure if I saw that one. I can understand being given an endowment on a mountain top by God and seeing all of creation and such. However I think man is attempting to recreate that sacred experience and then claiming that the 2 are somehow equal. A slick video is somehow equal to seeing the works of God, by God himself.
@@uncorrelatedmormonism Even in ancient times the temple rite was a performance. It's story telling. Nothing new. Movie, live, whatever. The oldest text in the world is a tablet with an ancient temple rite with stage directions putting on a play about the creation.
Clearly, this person has no idea what he is talking about but is merely repeating things he has heard from others. I have been going to the temple since 1973 and I can tell you that the ordinances themselves have not changed.
Thank you for that. I used to attend the temple weekly and am well experienced with it. Honestly, how can you say "the ordinances themselves have not changed" when in 1990 you would have seen the biggest change. The church literally surveyed the members to find out what they didn't like and then removed those things. Does that sound right to you?
@@uncorrelatedmormonism No, it doesn't sound right for a couple of reasons. One, the church has never and never will change the ordinances/doctrine by consensus. If that were the case then besides what happens in the temple, we would be drinking coffee and doing all sorts of things the world considers normal. Secondly, since you say you used to attend the temple, then you should realize that what happens inside is extremely sacred and is not discussed outside the temple. That alone would preclude any type of survey.
@@kentrussell4007 You are suggesting then the church would never do a survey like I am describing? There is a document title "1988 temple survey" on archive dot org which you are welcome to look at.
@@uncorrelatedmormonism I looked at the survey and it does not address anything like what you are implying. Of the 92 questions, the only one I could find that might relate to your point is Q36d which asks if they think the temple ceremonies take too much time.
@@kentrussell4007 Now your admitting that the church actually did send the survey? I don't think there were explicit questions like you are looking for however on several cases the church contacted the person to ask for follow up questions. Open ended questions were also certainly a time to list specifics. The survey had several open-ended questions. They also encouraged people to list things on the back of the survey. Regardless though, the church authorized massive changes to the ordinances in 1990 and this survey was certainly a motivation for that.
God acceted Herod's temple ordinancess even though the high priest was appointed by Rome and not who it was designated to be in the Old Testament. And Herod made changes to the temple building. Having garment and other changes were crucial for today. And prophets are authorized by God to make these changes.
That is a question I've wrestled with. I used to be thrown into confusion over the smallest changes. And even today I think the video has gotten too long. And see some changes I don't like. But at the same time my understanding is the endowment still follows the core detailed sketches of the hand grips and phraseology Wilfred Woodruff recorded in his journal at the time Joseph presented the endowment to the 12. (Which the Church has but does not release. I think it should be released for members to see in the Temple.) And if God saw it important the endowment had to be a certain way He would have provided the means. I think God gave guidelines for the 12 to follow and allowed Brigham Young to corrupt some parts of it to see if the Church over time could purify itself to remove these corruptions. Which it has. As shown in 2019 when it removed the "harken unto your husband" parts.
@@jaredvaughan1665 What is the difference between a church that goes into apostasy and one that God allows to "purify itself"? I think it is kind of splitting hairs. God allows us to go into apostasy and it is our choice to come back out of it. In many ways the church is still in apostasy.
@@jaredvaughan1665 I think you are correct. However we have a very long way to go and I am not sure we will make it. God will clean his house and I don't know what that means, but I doubt it is going to be easy or pleasant. The leaders are good men, but they are a reflection of the general membership. We all are part of the problem. Not just membership or the leaders.
The ordinances were actually changed significantly along with the wording and covenants. However, assuming you are correct does that mean the LDS church could baptize by sprinkling and it would be okay? The "presentation" just changed not the "ordinance", right? In the Bible God gave specific requirements for the Temple of Solomon, however because a change is not a change, then it would have been okay for them modify it randomly as need arose, correct?
It's amazing how some people make a choice to simply squint their eyes, cover their ears and sing la, la, la. I remember the changes distinctly. When the Church eliminated the brutal death penalties... the slashing and gashing... the "I would suffer my life to be taken" as you drew your thumb across your own throat... portions of the ordination... which I considered bizarre and satanic... That was a change for sure. How about the women not having to obey their husbands anymore? I guess what Im saying is, comments like yours don't fool anybody but they do make it obvious that you are the fool. Go educate yourself and then make some comments.
@@dirtdarte It also is troubling that the church literally surveyed its members in 1987 and then removed whatever they didn't like. How does that work exactly with the eternal unchanging aspect of God?
A lot of people have said this, which may be true. However at what point is a change big enough to be a "change"? For instance changing covenants, penalties, signs, and such, when would be significant enough to be a change?
@@uncorrelatedmormonism First we must take into consideration that current temple rites are preparatory in nature. i.e. they are not the event but sybolic of the event which will take place in the future. Their purpose is to determine if the individual is worthy to receive the actual event. Second temple rites have been apart of each disensation however they are unique to their individual generation. Example temple rites of Isaiah's time are similar to early Christian rites but also again different. Sadly if I use Hebrew and Latin terms to define the rites I will be deleted. So please bear with me in crude English. Even witthin a dispensation temple symbolism may change due to several factors. Hence LDS temple symblism has changed. A prime exanmple is the change in penalties. Today there is a simpe but stern warning. Previously there were more dramatic warnings. However the Hebrew temple has a warning that most likely reflects the actual outcome of the violation of temple secrets in the future . The warning to violators is that they would be burned alive and consumed. If you have seen the film "Raiders of the Lost Ark" toward the end of the movie you will observe Beloch and the Nazi soldiers being enflamed for doing the Hebrew temple rite. That is akin to the penalty for violating temple rites. Changes to preparatory rites do not change the actual event. However they may aid each generation of their commitments and covenants, and the mysteries which will occure. . Hope this helps.
*******The Book of Mormon is true***************** To anyone who will heed.🔥❤🙏 Let me state: The Book of Mormon is true. And Joseph Smith was a prophet of God. #TheBookofMormonistrue
Yes however this is almost certainly unconstitutional. People today would support polygamy I think. It would just have to be marketed as "choice" or "love" or something. I personally feel that if someone wants to be in a polygamous relationship then let them.
Are you claiming all changes were "non-substantive"? The endowment today is almost totally different than the 1845 endowment. I think the issue with most members is they look at a single change and they rationalize that it is not a "big" change so not a problem. However after enough of these "non-substantive" changes then you arrive at a totally different result. We actually have seen this in the early history of the LDS church and the New Testament itself. Small groups of people were cut off and so made one small change after another out of necessity and then you arrive at something substantially different.
You can read the 1800 endowment ceremony online, I wouldn't call it substantive, but some want to paint it that way. They want the same exact ordinance given to Adam and Even, or King Solomon. Doesn't work that way.
actually ... it is simple. we do what we are ready to do as a people. yes, the ordinances were set in heaven. that does not mean humanity is ready for them. even the 12 apostles appointed by jesus did not release all the gospel at once. only when the people were ready for it. and that also happened throughout the BoM. "line upon line, precept upon precept."
@@uncorrelatedmormonism the question is actually this. do we have all the information on the "everlasting covenant" ? i don't think so, and changes indicate we don't. and that is where" line upon line" comes in. is humanity ready for the complete everlasting covenant ? probably not. especially since we know the "everlasting covenant" was founded before the world was formed. god does not want us to fail, he wants us to succeed. giving us more than we are ready for does not help us.
@@grayman7208 The JST actually clarifies quite well what the everlasting covenant is. I would also recommend that you use the full JST not the partial one the LDS church uses. Genesis 13:14 Genesis 9:13-16 D&C 101:39, 49:9, 22:1, 45:9
Isaiah 28 (plagiarized by js) actually means in the "line upon ..." of verse 13 is what has been MIS-taught by hammering what SHOULD BE taught in verse 10 (MATT. 6:1;. 18:18) Isaiah 29:16 (in a Real Bible) further explains, "You have a fine way of TURNING THINGS UPSIDE-DOWN!". The more one reads the prophecies of the TRUE PROPHETS, the more convinced you will be that we are living those prophecies re the truly FALSE PROPHETS of today. And, esp. the practice of MORMONISM
@@sheliabryant3997 "Isaiah 28 (plagiarized by js)" idiotic nonsense. question for the non-thinker. did jesus plagiarize when he quoted the old testament ? answer for the non-thinker. nope. joseph smith did not write anything, so how could he plagiarize ? ... he translated someone else's writings. and translating is not plagiarizing.
when the general authorities condemned cock suckers and other such sexual activity for married couples, i fell off my chair in the bishop's orifice back in the 1980's when i was 2nd counselr in the bishoprick, and the bishop readd the letter from salt lake city.
