Let's Talk About Demons in Frieren: Beyond Journey's End 

The Demons in Frieren are basically a different form of mimic: Instead of preying on human greed/curiosity, they prey on human empathy/kindness.

Not so fun fact: the demon that ate a child doesn’t know what “mom” means, so she must’ve heard it. She probably heard it from the child who was eaten screaming “mom” before dying, and that’s why she also said “mom”. And that’s really dark.

For the first time in *fuckin forever* Demons are actually just Demons. No matter how pretty, alluring, charming, civil, or nice they may seem they are Humanoid Predators. They are Demonic creatures, not just magical humans with minor aesthetic differences like so many more recent series have been making them. That is such a breath of fresh air, because as much as I like Misfit at Demon King Academy they just don't look like demons.

Short answer: The difference between Frieren and demons is that though both don't (initially) understand humans, Frieren does not actively kill humans and/or consciously causes them harm. Long answer below the cut: There's also an interesting detail about the nameless demon child killing the chief and kidnapping his kid as "a replacement for the child she killed": Remember before being taken in she'd killed a little kid and the parents were constantly glaring at her for as long as she lived there. Since she was spared by the hero party and taken in by the chief, she recognized the parents of the dead child as the only remaining threat to her safety. By that point she somewhat understood that killing kids was a no-no for humans, and (assuming she was honest about this) she said she wanted to live in peace, so what was the solution? She killed an adult instead. An adult who had a child of similar age to the one who died before, so that the family could take the new orphan in and hopefully stop hating her. It's a very metodical, even simple line of thought: "You hate me for breaking X, so I got a new X for you." She also realized that, from how the grieving parents reacted, killing the chief was a bad decision. But she didn't understand *why*, and it wasn't an act she could undo. Other demons displayed different emotions too, as mentioned in the video: Aura was terrified of dying. Qual was bewildered at Frieren and Fern using his own spell against him. Draht had a rather sadistic hint of joy in his face while he still thought killing Frieren would be easy. Lugner was shocked at Linie's defeat/death, and then outraged at Fern and Frieren hiding their mana. So it's not that demons lack emotions. It's just that those emotions don't weigh much on their actions and the way they understand the world around them is intrinsically different to how a human would. The difference clashes so bad against human values that even the smartest demons/kinder humans struggle to fully understand the other side, no matter how hard they try. Those who read the manga can attest, some demons *do try*, but they still fail nonetheless. Edit: Grammar & cohesion.

"I'd feel sad if a marine stomped a baby xenomorph." Now hold on there cowboy. That's some high heresy right there.

The contrast between the child demon and the adult demons is the biggest gave away here, imo. The child demon is more robot like, while the adults that are hundreds of years old has better human-like reactions, expressing pain and whatnot. Imagine the child demon in Aura's situation, would the kid have shed tears when it can't even mimic the expression of pain yet? Is it the demon getting better at copying humans or is it the demon becoming human because they ate too much human meat over 500 years? But lets also remember, Frieren herself is more than a thousand years old. Her bored expression watching Himmel and the others get tricked and cold demeanor when slaying demons is a product of thousand years of watching gamers preorder broken video games.

Whenever people feel bad about a demon being killed, it just shows how absolutely effective they are at what they do.

I don't know if it's been mentioned in the anime yet but the lack of empathy part boils down to biological differences, kinda like how a pitcher plant would not feel empathy towards the insects they lure and trap. But im pretty sure its been mentioned that they evolved starting as monsters that learned how to parrot the word "help" in the dark to lure humans like a pitcher plant evolved luring in insects using nectar. Luckily there is an arc in frieren that will tackle demons ability to coexist and if thats actually possible but I just find it funny that twitter people start to question the morality of killing demons once they look a lot more like cute anime girls regardless of the fact that they are surrounded in decapitated bodies they enslaved and have them serve till their corpses decayed.

9:18 - she's not bored, she's resigned. Because *she*, but *only she* knows what's going to happen next, but because everyone was set on ignoring her, she is just waiting for them to learn the lesson the hard way. Plus maybe 1% curiosity that maybe this might be an exception to the universal rule she knows.

3:00 What you mean We didn't feel much for Qual? He was a great genius magical inventor and despite his bestial look he had quite a calm conversation with Frieren before his final fight, his annihilation is a great loss, not only did he invent Zoltraak, but he instantly started analyzing the new defensive spells developed against it!

The main difference between Demons and Frieren, and Elves by extension, is that we are not in a Predator-Prey conflict. In the context of the series, Demons may be considered some big predators, but elves... are more like a big herbivore, powerful enough to be considered a menace to them and us. But as we do not place any danger or place in their food chain which is why it makes sense that they show this indifference towards humans because, probably, during their heyday elves could go their quite lengthy lifespan and never need to get in contact with a human so their society developed with different values than us but at the same time no animosity

Aura isn’t evidence of anything, because most creatures will react to dying. That and Aura is dying to her own pride, which is basically her eating crow. Frieren has been doing this for a long time, and she knows that Aura has been beheading people for a long time. To put it bluntly it’s hard to feel bad someone you know has been lopping heads off left, right and centre. That’s most of the issue with feeling for the demons, because we’ve seen it backfire. The little girl is pretty much the key example; she looked happy there, but didn’t compute how to live among humans. It’s not they don’t emote, but their emotional and logical reasoning is not the same. The difference is that Freiren is that she can be reasoned with, she did let the demon child try to live. She’s able to reflect and the entire premise is regret, and loss.

The difference between Frieren and Demons is that Frieren has empathy, in no moment is this clearer than when she realized that she had been wasting time that humans don't have much of and missed out on knowing a person who managed to know her in less than one one-hundredth of her life. She balls her eyes out like a child, and I can feel for her, my grandmother didn't live far into my childhood and when she left I balled my eyes out for the same reason... I, in a childish way had taken her presence for granted and hadn't bothered to know her while she was alive, only learning more about her from those who are left to remember her. Demons in Frieren have no such empathy and are thus in some sense not deserving of our empathy. Tough we can pity them with our capacity for sympathy.

9:20 Frieren's expression here appears in my opinion as "I know what you are, I'll sit this out, you haven't hurt anyone yet but I've seen how this plays out already". She has seen situations like this before likely and she's stoic about it but I'm sure she has no faith in the demon not causing harm eventually.

Gotta like how thousands of anime-only Frieren enjoyers asuming stuff about demons, thinking it is still a mystery up to debate, when the very next arc after where the anime ends tells you everything you need to know about demons. Frieren DOES feel bad about killing demons, except just a handful of them. This is not really a spoiler, because just from the anime alone its pretty obvious that she doesn't really treat demons purely as unreasonable pest like she said, as she at least resonate with them about the sense of time, and most importantly, their passion of magic, when she clearly shows interest talking about these topics more than she needed to, and replying more than out of politeness, when she fights Aurora and the inventor of Zoltraack, I'm not even talking about later encounters in the manga. The series is HEAVILLY emphasizing on characters acting differently to what they said regardless of the race/species of the characters. some characters do that out of kindness and thoughtfulness, some do it to deceive, either their brains are hard-wired to do so or they choose to do so; either to deceive the others or deceiving themselves to numb their feelings to do what they have to do, *"you gotta out-decieve the demons to defeat them".* Edit: spelling.

Frieren has one big, key difference from the demons she kills: she does not seek to kill demons. She spent a thousand years holed up in a hermit shack, living a peaceful existence, until Himmel showed up and pulled her into the fight against the Demon Lord. Every single encounter we see wit demons, they are the instigators and aggressors. Demons are always the ones who draw first blood I every encounter, and always are shown seeking to destroy humanity wherever they can. Frieren may be just as vicious and isolationist as the demons, but she is nowhere near as bloodthirsty. And that is the crucial line the series draws.

As fact a demons are also one of main reasons why Elves are going extinct. Elf are one of oldest sentient races in this world and also very powerful. After demons gained intelligence and started to form organized structures they begun from elimination of largest treat. And because Elves realized too late that demons are treat their civilization was wiped out and all remaining Elves are just remnants without means to restore their race.

My empathy for monsters in fantasy stops when it's in their nature to kill indiscriminately. They may have a desire to live, but they have an equal desire to kill. I also can't feel sorry for a species that weaponizes empathy. The demons are shown time and again to have been given a second chance, and they only use that to kill. There is a distinct difference between demons and elves/dwarfs/humans in fantasy. The elves/dwarfs/humans all coexist with empathy (there is always conflict, that's just normal). But demons have been shown to not be capable of empathy or coexistence. I guess it's a credit to the writer that you feel so sorry for demons begging for their lives. They do that to garner mercy so they can strike again later.

"Do you feel the same way when you're seeing Aura's death?" *Literally a batallion of people beheaded by her in the background*

3:07 hmm, nope. Nothing at all. The demons themselves explained what their nature is, and we don't only see them in the perspective of Frieren, the village flashback showed us that even Himmel (The most kind, gentle, understanding, sympathetic human we've seen) learns and understands this concept since he experienced it first hand with the demon that ATE THE LITTLE GIRL and only mimicked human behavior to extend her own life.

Without really spoiling anything, the longest arc in the Frieren manga explores this topic very broadly and gives us a much better insight to how demons operate. They bring up topics such as convergent evolution--wherein demons evolved from looking like monsters like Qual to more humanoid shapes because it was evolutionary advantageous for them to do so--as well as their inborn psychopathy--that, if they had the ability to feel empathy for their prey, they would go extinct. It's the best arc in the manga but unfortunately will not be covered within this first 28 episode season. I hope it is animated one day because it is a fantastic arc with very memorable and well-written antagonists.

3:21 fear is a self preservation mechanism essential for survival, you hardly find a linving being that can't feel it

Frieren is NOT like the demons, if we compare them both want something, demons power and frieren spells, frieren would never hurt anyone for to archive her goals, she dosent even overpowers the guards when she gets pinned not even infront of the thing she hates the most. Demons are unfelling and Freiren is desensitized, having hempaty for them is the human reaction and is exactly what they exploit, it speaks better of freiren showing her determination, resolution and how she is really wise.

9:10 I read Frieren's face as someone whos warnings have been ignored and is just waiting for the inevitable disaster to happen.

What gives Frieren the moral high ground ? Here's my answer to that. A key difference between the demons and Frieren is that, unlike the demons, she doesn't go out of her way to hurt others. She didn't mind spending centuries minding her own business before Himmel and his party arrived at her shack. Unlike the demons, she doesn't see the humans she interacts with as being prey. She's aloof around the humans she travels with, but she cares about them. She's just clueless about the best way to show how she really feels. Having empathy is an essential part of human hature, but there is a catch: if you're not careful, your empathy will be used against you. This is what demons do in Frieren's setting. In the real world, this something psychopaths and sociopaths do whenever they can. In fact, sociopaths and psychopaths are "defective" humans who not only have no empathy for others but also can't feel strong emotions, except for one: fear. Aura's reaction when she realizes she lost to Frieren and is about to die is very similar to how real life sociopaths react when faced with the fact that they're about to die. They get desperate and emotional because the only thing they care about, which is themselves, is about to be destroyed.

3:21 "Who is she trying to deceive anyways" Allow me to present the concept of "Shapeshifter's swan song", is a trope when a shapeshifter is about to die to turn into everything to try and find a way out, you can find an example in terminator 2. In the same way Demons may be trying to use anything at their disposal to try and survive, is not logical move, is a desperation move, in the hopes it may save them in some way. 9:18 she is waiting the inevitable conclusion. What makes Frieren different from Demons? Demons left alone will search humans to kill them. Look at Aura, she could have lived without that city, Demons don't need to kill humans, so going there and devicing the whole plan to lower the barrier is just a pointless effort to kill humans, again something they don't need to do for survival. Frieren left alone will live 1000 years in a forest doing barely anything. RIght now Frieren is not moving around with the goal to kill all Demons, she goes to places she knows there is a problem that will arise soon (Quaal, Sword village) so she can clean up before there is victims, or target demons she finds in the way, but not going out of her way to find them. I'm sure if Demons stop killing humans and lived in their own corner of the world most humans wouldn't care, kinda like how we know there is dangerous animals across the world but they aren't a danger to normal people. But since they are an imminent danger that will seek them out, they need to be dealt with. Demons have emotions, that is not a question, but have a blue and orange morality, the have no concept of good and bad as humans, they cannot comprehend humans, they only have a might makes right mentality, and they all consider humans to be weaker.

You have to keep in mind some details are lost in translation. For example, the very well-defined separation between "mamono" (monsters) and "mazoku" (demons). There are actually many terms to signify monsters and demons in Japanese, but this show is very consistent in that demons are always mazoku, and monsters are always mamono, and they are two very different set of creatures. Mazoku are humanoid and can speak human language. Mamono can have many forms, be it animal-like or vegetable-like or even humanoid, but they can't speak human language. That's a particular trait unique to mazoku so that's how you know we're dealing with a demon rather than a monster. Because the translation is not always accurate, there have been some cases where monsters are called demons or the other way around. That might make viewers believe monsters and demons are basically the same thing when that's actually not the case at all. In fact, some enemies you yourself called demons in this video are actually just monsters. Anyway, the point is, always keep in mind that demons and monster are totally different things, and that what defines demons the most and sets them apart from monsters is their ability to speak human language. As for the topic of the video, demons are pretty complex creatures. Yes, they don't only speak to deceive humans. That was a mistranslation too (there are many mistranslations in this show). But that's not really important. What's important is that they're brains are just different from humans, so there are emotions they simply can not feel. Not all emotions, obviously, just some of them, but unfortunately, the emotions they lack are exactly the ones they would need to be able to coexist with humans, like empathy or remorse/guilt. They can kill children and won't feel anything at all. Also, while they are intelligent creatures, they do have an strong instinctive impulse to kill humans. They might be able to hold back for a while, but eventually they will kill. They just can't suppress that urge forever. They are ultimately very tragic creatures.

I would say the difference is in direction. Frieren learned to be cold and antagonistic towards demons through experience, while demons are born that way. And when not around demons frieren does display genuine empathy.

The difference between frieren and the demons is that one group is an aggressor and the other is not. It's pretty clear cut

I think you can sum up the shortcomings with your argument like this: Feeling no empathy for a psychopath does not make you a psychopath!

4:41 Precisely, that's the problem with your approach. Demons aren't a humanoid race, they're monsters that have taken on a human appearance. And it's this nuance in particular that makes all the difference. Aura isn't crying because she's afraid of dying, but because as a being made of pure individualism, her ego has taken a blow. Frieren deceived her and forced her to kill herself (something she used to do to the people she killed, by the way). Demons can feign empathy but not modesty, because that's how their hierarchy works. It's just the strongest's law. And in addition to their unabashed individualism, they have overinflated egos. Not having empathy for them doesn't make you inhuman, but it does make you someone who knows what he's dealing with.

If you see a glimmer of humanity in the eyes of a tiger, then all you see is your own reflection in the heart of a ruthless killer.

The demons in Sousou no frieren are just psychopaths with horns. Frieren did nothing wrong

@Roaming Trend has been charmed by the demon names Aura.

Frieren's depictions of demons are probably the most refreshing they've been in a while in anime. Demons by the most original sense are creatures of deception and corruption, dating back to the olden times were their origins are seducing people to sin. Modern anime kind of just makes demons humans but with horns with no real reason why they'd look like people while not being humans in the first place. In Frieren it's established that they look like people in order to garner sympathy and advantage, after all you won't show mercy to something that looks like a monster, but you will show it to something that looks and sounds like a person. That one scene with the demon saying "mother" while having no concept of family was really cool, since it plays into what would be a stereotypical thing to say in times of hardship being used as a shield instead by an enemy. In future arcs too, El dorado, it gets even better with their origins and psychology and physiology as demons plays into how they are more thought out than one might think.

3:10 Maybe, because I desensitized from watching a lot of stuff. But for me, its like see a smug serial killer that has been taunt everyone finally getting caught. So I basically feel nothing out of it. 3:50 About the "Their kind uses words only to deceive humans", I think the manga say it better "Words for them is means to deceive humans". Well yeah, sure they use it to communicate to each other still because if not we the audience won't understand what they talking and living being need a way to communicate after all. Plus "Deceive" doesn't mean you can't be honest, demon deceive human that mean in a way they will do anything to deceive them even say some truth to understand the human to deceive them. If someone able to deceive someone by always lying, I believe its not even possible. I think the morality problem can be thrown aside when all demon see every single humankind as "Prey". If we not kill them, they will be the one killing everyone.

I honestly like how demons have been portrayed so far in this show. Their behavior reminds me of that tale about the scorpion and the frog. The demon child should have waited until the party left and then it could kill the humans as it pleased. But in the end it couldn't wait and ended up killing the village chief. And due to the lack of empathy, they couldn't even understand why the "peace offering" was rejected. I hope this topic gets explored more in the show.

The show doesn't seek to make Frieren human. In fact, it goes to great lengths to show she isn't human. Yet you're trying to imply that someone who can outlive the entire world seeing patterns and trying to stop unnecessary bloodshed is somehow wrong to do so. She's easily persuaded not to do the things she wants to. She's not disagreeable. She simply does what she feels she must, and what the story shows is consistently necessary

I think the read on a bored expression on the Friren's face, when she looks at the demon girl go about her business, says: "I've seen that a dozen times. It's only a matter of time until it ends badly"

OH you will love the Golden Lands part, about a demon who one day wonders how empathy works.

Demons speak primarily to deceive humans. That's a fact. That's the main reason they're gifted with speech. That said, when demons' pride is challenged and they don't understand something, they may do something other than deceive a human when speaking to them. This doesn't mean, however, that we should empathize with them. Because if you do, they'll find a way to exploit this flaw to deceive you. It's precisely because demons are masters at playing with people's empathy that a character like Frieren will never be fooled by them. Emote even an ounce of empathy towards them and you risk putting your life in danger. It's not worth it, and you'll be putting the people around you in danger too. Demons may be intelligent, but they're similar to the goblins in "Goblin Slayer", hurting humans by instinct when they don't even need it to survive in the first place. They're not a humanoid race as you might think, they're monsters that have naturally taken on human form.

The difference between Frieren and the demons is that she doesn't have the desire to eat people. Which is a pretty big distinction. Now is it possible to educate demons to not do that and survive off something else? Probably, but I personally wouldn't bet on it really working.

You mentioned that Frieren takes demons down "promptly", but there's an important caveat to that: she holds off on killing them as long as they are useful to her (and not hurting anyone else, etc.). Even in the example you gave, with her fighting Draht in the prison cell, she could have chosen to kill Draht at literally any moment after he stepped in. She chose to have a conversation with him and even let him attack her to see if he would reveal any useful information, which he did. Then as soon as he outlived his usefulness, she killed him. The same is true of Qual (using him as a tool for Fern's training) and Aura (Frieren played with the scales like a mana-powered fidget spinner for several minutes before finally launching Minecraft). Fern, whose views on demons are clearly heavily influenced by Frieren, also held off (briefly) on killing Lugner for similar reasons.

It's hard to get angry at the demons, since they aren't malicious, they are just amoral, they have no sense of morality. They completely fail to understand humans and just care about self preservation. It's like getting angry at a lightning strike which kills someone.

I think there's a point to examining the different reactions to dying of the demons. Lugner was very proud of his magic and valued it over all else, so he died in anger due to losing against someone who 'cheated' in the only thing he cared about. Aura was a demon general who had an army and had survived the hero's party. She was proud above all else, and felt invincible with her auserlese. Frieren completely overwhelming her with the one thing she had dedicated her whole life toward made her feel small and insignificant again, making her feel fear likely for the first time since 80 years ago (Aura was said to have run away from the hero's party after being wounded by them). Qual created the first piercing magic zoltraak which would go on to kill almost all human mages in the region that he was deployed in, he was an absolute unit in his time, and could replicate defensive magic the instant he saw it used. Imagine an engineer in real life that can build a car after seeing it once, that is absolutely unreal amounts of genius. He couldn't be beaten by the hero's (unlike the literal demon king), but was later oneshotted by frieren by his own spell. In his dying moments he is simply shocked he could be overwhelmed so easily, and that he was beaten by his own creation. Out of these Lugner started out decieving humans but also spoke honestly after his cover was blown and he was confident he could beat his opponent without deceit, Aura and Qual were simply confident in their abilities or knew their opponents beforehand so they didn't even try to lie. It can be assumed that all three were somewhat genuine in their reactions when fighting to the death with the cast. And finally the demon girl in the village. She is the most interesting because after failing to deceive the humans she says that "mom is a magical word, because it keeps you from killing us". Even though she never casted a spell the relation is there. Each of the demons talk about magic when dying, and being creatures composed entirely of mana it makes sense. They are more akin to a force of nature or wild beasts that are simply the apex predator for humans. A wolf is not evil when it slaughters an entire flock of sheep to eat only one, it's simply its nature. If the wolf was intelligent it would have killed only to feed, but being a beast it feels the need to hunt, even when there is no benefit to it. The demons in frieren are similar. Qual says that the appropriate reason for killing Frieren should be revenge for the demon king, meaning he didn't really care what reason it was he just wanted to do it. Lugner says he was happy it turned out this way after being exposed, because then he can kill everyone in town. The demon girl also doesn't even understand that humans see killing other humans as a bad thing, and thinks it's a great solution to just kill the chief so that the mother can have the daughter back. She also gets to devour the chief as a bonus of course. The demons simply work outside human morality, it's very tolkien like. There is no evil, just the absence of good.

Honestly am I the strange one here? As soon as I was given understanding of where these creatures descend from the idea of empathy was lost and I mostly just pitied them as creatures of instinct who would sabotage themselves.

For me its quite easy not to feel pity for Aura in the shot when she beheaded herself and in all scenes where she was shown there are behind her tens of humans . men who cannot find rest for her magic tool . endlessly serving her . without rest . its quite easy you know

It is shown that demons can actually ""learn"" to feel human emotions and some even seek out to try it themselves. However, they are not capable of truly understanding what the emotion or feeling truly is. Inside the demon's head there is only logical thinking, sorta like an AI where it mimics human thoughts randomly based on patterns and information. This is most prominent in the next arc (in the manga only by the time of this comment). On a side note, Frieren is also shown to be capable of understanding human emotions, though it just takes her super long to process them. Elves in the show are portrayed similar to demons in that they are apathetic. However, we have seen Frieren express humanly traits such as sadness, compassion, and even love. Frieren in her mind really loves Himmel, however she does not understand that feeling for a very long time. Her adventure with Fern and Stark is also partly derived from her love for Himmel (this is mainly my interpretation). SPOILERS ALERT: One of the seven sages of destruction: Macht tries to force himself to learn human emotion, even forcing himself to put on a bracelet that will kill him if he shows any malice or dark intentions. Then after Match turns the entire city to gold, he still is not slain and has continued to spread the gold further beyond the city boundaries. This shows that demons are quite literally incapable of learning or even attaining some human emotion or aspects, they only see things as black and white, sorta like what Frieren sees demons like. It is also interesting that Macht still remains loyal to his human master even to the end, despite turning him and his city into gold.

The thing about the Demon Girl is that she could do anything else. She could have run away, lead other demons to the village, kill everybody while they were sleeping, etc. But she chose to stay, and chose to try to "fix" what she understood as wrong: "I took a girl from that human -> i can sense that human's bloodlust -> I will give her another girl so she calms down". It isn't even founded in cold rationality because she couldn't even understand that her "fix" would ultimately be more dangerous to her than the angry woman. Don't get me wrong, it's still monstrous, but to me its a clear indicative that the Demon Girl found confort in her life in the village and sought to keep it (albeit in a pretty fucked up way). All things said, while peace may be possible (instead of total anihilation), i don't think coexistence can be an option.

Some demons are more aware than others and some demons care more for their time being alive.

Well, even in the future story, we'll see a demon, a strong one that has a desire to understand human emotions, he tried to learn it for decades, living closely with humans in a town, actively interacting with them, and having a friend that willingly helped him understand it, knowing the possible danger the demon could bring to his town. but in the end, the demon still fails to understand human emotion. The townfolks he had been living with for decades ended up being cursed with a spell he casts.

Well these human points makes us humans. The reason you don't feel anything when they are killed vs the human looking ones are something that's hardwired in us. To humans letting someone similar to us who shares same looks and values to us is far more beneficial for survival than a snak horse mix creature. I like how this show pointed out the human psychology and how empathy works. A similar thing you can see in the game Undertale but there the message is more about you than the entire world. Example I absolutely broke into tears when i saw the player killing goatmom in the destroy everyone run on RU-vid. Because in the beginning of the game she showed is love like a mother to her child.

While the demons in Sousou no Frieren are capable of selfish emotions (like Aura not wanting to die), it is still true that they are basically antisocial predators of humans. The scene with the demon child is a good example of this, as while she appears weak in that moment, she is actually powerful enough to effortlessly slaughter an adult man, who by all appearances would be stronger than a supposedly "weak and injured child". If Frieren and Himmel weren't there, that one demon would probably be able to singlehandedly massacre the population of that village. I read the flashback scene as Frieren using the lives as innocent bystanders as a tool to teach Himmel not to trust demons, which was pretty bad in its own way.

"How exactly is Frieren different from demons" - She genuinely cares about those around her. She comforted Fern when she was sick, she cooked steaks for Starks birthday, heck the reason she's on the adventure in the first place is because she regrets not getting to truly know Himmel. The demons in Frieren wouldn't be able to understand any of these actions and decisions because they fundamentally can't. Every action that the demons take that would garner sympathy for them are copied, Lügner copied Graf, Aura copied the soldiers she made commit self-die, and the demon child copied the child they ate. They only copied these actions because it would preserve their own life, not because they truly were grieving or afraid.

While I agree that they certainly play up how deceptive the demons are at every moment and every turn, I think the way they portray demons in frieren is far more interesting than if they were some kind of morally grey villain. Yes, they feel emotions. Yes, they use language to communicate. But it is also clear that they do not feel these things the same ways that humans do. They feel no connection to the people (or demons ig) around them. Some examples: In her fight with frieren, aura asks her why she isn't using flashy spells and destroying the suits of armor like she did 80 years ago. Frieren says it's because himmel scolded her not too, since it is disrespectful of the dead. Aura says that that's all the more reason to destroy them, since himmel isn't there to scold her. This makes it clear that while aura understands the want to not be scolded or reprimanded or whatnot, she doesn't understand that there is a moral and emotional obligation to not do those actions anyway, since they aren't just. Demons don't have any morality, all they want is to survive and become more powerful. Frieren takes this as proof that demons are just as monsterous as she thought. Another example, the flashback you discuss in the video. The young demon may have truly wanted to live in the village in peace. However, she has developed no attachment, no debt, no love for the man who was between her and death. She couldn't understand how the parents of the girl she killed felt, that she couldn't just replace their child with another. Neither did she understand that the chief's daughter loved him, and that it would bring her unfathomable pain to know that her father was killed. We see multiple times that many different demons will use words to bargain their way out of dying. The little girl calls out for 'mother' right when himmel and frieren are about to deal a killing blow, because she knows that it makes humans not want to kill them. And in that way, she views that word as magical. The guy who tried to assassinate frieren while she was in the jail cell makes a last ditch effort to talk to her, calling out "wait!" right before frieren blows off his head. When lugner is surrounded by granat's guards and hasn't yet gotten what he wants yet (the spell to the barrier around the town so they can take it down and decimate the city) blatantly lies about having a father because he knows humans are emotionally connected to things like that. While not every word that comes out of a demon's mouth is meant to be trickery, they most certainly do use it to try and get out of unfavorable situations. There is this whole arc in the manga that goes into depth about the feelings, or lack thereof, of demons when they interact with humans. They are not 'evil' in the traditional sense because they can barely comprehend the idea that the their actions might be considered 'evil' to humans. They absolutely have self preservation and feelings like fear when that is threatened. That is true of even animals. Aura looking frightened when she's about to cut her own head off is because she's scared of dying. It's also said that demons only have love for magic, and spend their entire lives trying to perfect a certain subset of it. They most certainly have emotions and goals, they are a sentient race after all. But they feel absolutely no remorse when killing people because it's not possible for them. Super interesting stuff!

There a grand total of 3 demons who tried their absolute damnest hardest to understand and coexist with humans, let's just say it did not go well.

To answer your question, here's what I thought when Aura was forced to kill herself: "Get fucked, scum." Frieren did nothing wrong.

In frieren, it's explained that demon's were beast's that at first doing things based on pure instinct, but then they're gradualy have some intelegences, sense of coordinations, and later some understanding of some emotions, but they lack's understanding of many basic's human emotions and understandings

One thing that shows the difference between Frieren and demons from episode 7 is in how the help the merchant. When asked why she doesn’t just fly the cart over the landslide she replies that it wouldn’t help the next people using the rode. Demons up until this point only care about themselves, not even caring about their own kind. Frieren has shown time and time again to do extra work because it is beneficial to others who she won’t even meet.

From what the show says, demons are beast that are capable of communication. I think the way I saw it is as they are animals, and if you're willing to kill a lion for attacking you then its the same thing as killing a demon for existing.

I actually view Qual with greater empathy than the more human-like ones. Qual was more interested in learning than the actual act of killing humans. Still hella evil ofc, but he could have laid another golden egg with his brilliance.

If you feel bad about a demon dying, it shows that you have empathy. What demons lack.

I think the difference between Frieren and the demons is that Frieren and those like her ARE capable of feeling and understanding the same range of emotions as humans, however due to her long lived life span she and those like her don't feel it the same way humans do. Fieren has lived so long that 50 years to her seemed like a weekend however once she realized that she wasted 60 years she could have used to get to know her friends better, she ended up breaking down in tears after realizing her mistake. So she is clearly capable of feeling regular human feelings, she just feels them differently. Demons on the other hand don't seem to understand human emotions at all and seem incapable of feeling anything at all for humans much less each other and whatever they do understand they've been shown to mainly use as a manipulation tactic and have even self admitted that they don't actually understand the things they are saying but say it anyway since they know that it'll have an affect on the humans. They clearly have goals outside of survival, if they didn't then why did they go out of their way to try to take down a magical barrier protecting a city and later invading it with an army of the undead? Clearly they're not innocent creatures who just want to live their best life and Frieren has lived long enough and has seen enough to know that.

I totally agree with your point here. Killing demons is a necessity for survival in Frieren's world, but that doesn't make it wrong to feel bad for them. Demons are the agressors in this conflict, and it seems impossible to reason with them, but that still doesn't mean feeling empathy and/or sympathy for them is wrong. Demons may be classified as pure predators or parasites but they're still intelligent creatures and seem capable of enjoying life and as well as fearing to lose it. That is enough for me. They may be complete sociopaths one and all, but it's not like I believe sociopaths are underserving of life. Life just happens. Nobody deserves it and nobody is underserving of it. Humans are absolutely in the right for trying/wanting to kill all the demons. Demons are incredibly powerful and dangerous with worldviews that seem utterly incompatible with humanity - or at least we've yet to see one in the series so far. That won't stop me from feeling bad for all creatures that experience suffering.

is like a group of Flies decided to feel bad for the Venus Flytrap when they die

They have pride, anger, and fear, but dont have empathy, you gonna have good treat when the story enter gold demon arc (if madhouse make the season 2, but you can always read the manga)

It's always easier to say demons should be killed when viewing the story from a 3rd person view. (And I believe some people just want to say "hah I know more about this than you get owned!!") What I loved about later plots in the original manga, is how the sotry progressively shown us more about the demons, not just the "evilness" of the specie as a whole, but how their individual motivation, and the difference in reaction between human and demon on the same situation.

Be emphatic with the other humans and for every demon you purge you are saving countless humans!

Theres a lot of people praising the story, thankful that the demons are demons and theres no moral thinking they have to do to kill them. I think thats an insult to this work of art. It forces you to interact with a harsh reality of differing perspective of things nothing like you. And the room for empathy in that conversation. I feel some peoples willingness to through empathy away at there convenience say a lot about the place empathy actually holds in their hearts. Demons kill to survive, like a coyotes kill chickens to survive. Feeling bad for that coyote is human but doesn’t necessarily stop you from shooting it. Because you also need to survive. We both share the same terminal goal of self preservation, and you had to end that animal pursuit of that goal. That is enough to feel something. Because our role in this universe is to feel for a universe that cant do it for itself

Speaking of Gandalf. Yes, he told Frodo that profound speech about Smegarol. But did he hesitate to kill the orcs, goblins or trolls they met?

Hmm maybe a lot of the complaints come from my fellows who are updated on it in the manga, so have met other demons and have been exposed to more info and lore on them. So I think it should be fair for those who follow the story with the anime to make conclusions on their own to the info we got there. I won't divulge anymore lore about them, but I understand your point. Doing something right (or wrong) is different from feeling something about it (whether right or wrong), and to be fair...even in the manga so far (in my opinion), the author still does not promote any value judgement on the demons, just that they are perfectly evolved to lure humans to be eaten, and that they are a completely atomistic species (as already shown in the show with their lack of empathy and familial relations). It's just an infortunate circumstance of nature.

In the Ender's Game Quintet, Orson Scott Card introduces the idea of a "Hierarchy of Foreignness". Part of the hierarchy is the Varelse. This is a group who may or may not be sentient, but for whatever reason meaningful communication cannot be established. That's the way that I see the demons in Frieren's world. Part of their nature is a psychopathy that prevent MEANINGFUL communication. You can talk to them all day long, and they do not have the ability to understand our concepts. Because an understanding cannot be reached conflict is inevitable.

I agree with you and I agree with many of your points and so are the same I have but If I'm honest I didn't feel anything when frieren killed that lil demon or Aura.

Bruh these comments are wild. From what I've listened and read from this video and its comments, I think that @RoamingTrend and the people in the comments trying to refute him are saying the same thing in the end. The "born a psychopath" people that are trying to nail this info into Trend's head is dumb, he already acknowledges and knows that. Trend just says that he "felt bad when he saw a demon girl forced to slice her head off", and people are taking this to the extreme by saying "Trend is actually just tricked by the very demons!". Like, what? Trend points out that it is okay to feel bad for creatures that don't know that they should feel bad or good for themselves. (example, the xenomorph analogy). In my opinion, that is one factor that makes us humans. Trend makes it clear that what he rejects isn't the morality of killing off these demons for the sake of humanities survival, but that dehumanization in general should not be taken lightly. In my opinion, if this were to happen in a more realistic world with a predator that looks basically human, it wouldn't take much for a sadistic dictator to compare and generalize actual groups of humans (yet alone elves or dwarves) to these monsters, and lead a dangerous slippery slope into actual dehumanization of actual people. This is what I believe Trend was trying to get at. "to look at both sides of the conflict... an existential one". In order to stop dehumanization, we shouldn't only look at these demons as monsters, but creatures that are equal to humans, and why they see frieren as the monster aka "slayer" (yes i know it also has a double meaning in Japanese). Trend recognizes the value of portraying the demons in the way the anime does, and I enjoyed his analyses and insight on SouSou no Frieren.

This is actually a great analysis video, not lots of creators who does analysis videos really analyze the subject. I observed most of them just usually share their opinions and feelings towards the subject matter in a subjective manner therefore making it subjective analysis, no wrong in that, it's just that onjective analyzation helps the viewers better into comprehending the deeper layers of the subject matter's lore, foreshadowings, symbolizations, etc. Well done! Im subbing, sir! :)

That was a great analyzation. The quote from Gandalf about morality of life and death, as well as a wider knowledge of Tolkien fantasy is a great stage setter for a philosophical and metaphysical argument about the value of morals versus existentialism. Great video and editing. I hope your channel skyrockets in views and subscribers because you deserve it. Keep up the good work!

13:20 c'mon that is a big stretch

Also, I am only using the info in the Anime. Once season 1 ends I will pick up a manga and see if that changes some of my opinions.

The Demons are more interesting than people give them credit for, because there is a hint of redemption within them that is very, very subtly touched upon. In the fight with Aura, even Frieren was searching for an out to be merciful: "Aura.. it seems I must kill you here, after all." "You demons are monsters after all." Not even Frieren is immune to the propaganda that is another intelligent being talking to you. That demon child still haunts me - because she's a clear case positive that maybe the plight of demons *isn't* so clear cut. She didn't kill the chief's child, because that child truly, wholly embraced her.. and on some level, she understood that she committed a grave injustice against the people whose child she originally ate that she has to reconcile. She simply doesn't comprehend a way to forgive that crime, except by giving them a new child. And, obviously, the chief disagrees.. which is probably how they were killed. As a race, demons have self-propelled themselves with a cycle of traumatizing violence all in the name of survival. Where humankind is collective, demons prioritize individualism above all else, as the only one you know you can truly trust is yourself.. *not even your own children.* They abandon them soon after birth, leaving them to learn that nature is cruel and uncaring; until humans begin to intercede at that point and teach them the potency of collectivism and family, it's likely nothing will change. That demon child was also probably older than many of the people in that village, too. They live as long as elves. She isn't going to change her outlook on life because this one family was nice to her for a while.

My heart strings were initially tugged by Aura, but they're supposed to be because demons very effectively prey on empathy. Frieren is an interesting anime to me in the way it asks the audience to look past words and see actions, specifically the impact on the background characters most narratives ignore. The treatment of demons is a direct response to the greater fantasy and romance genre's attempts to humanize monsters. The narrative points out the suffering that's ignored in the place of blanket forgiveness. The narrative states this is a very natural human thing to do, and shows how doing so minimizes the suffering of secondary and tertiary characters who vocalize their pain less eloquently. Using the right words (the demon saying, "Mom.") makes the aggressor more palatable, more like us, and therefore more worthy of protection than their victim. Worthy of protection from their victim in fact. The expressed vulnerability doesn't match with what we saw happen. We can't comprehend why someone who looks so much like us would do this, so we create excuses. The defense of every domestic abuser everywhere. "I just didn't understand what this meant. I'm so sorry I hurt you. It was a mistake. I'll do better next time." Then the abuser behaves the same way, the cycle continues, and the people in the community defend their actions at the expense of the victim. The narrative carefully depicts how language, appearance, word choice, and perceived familiarity ensures some characters matter more than others. We see multiple human characters be taken in by this predictable pattern. A great example here is Aura. You describe and then dismiss the soldiers whose souls she enslaves as minions. You honed in on the scenes where she's crying and afraid, not the scenes where she gleefully subjugates others. Aura is cute and attractive. Our instinct is to humanize Aura at the expense of her victims. Frieren doesn't. Sousou no Frieren specifically juxtaposes a cute demon girl against the faceless, empty armors behind her and tells us which side Frieren is on. Frieren mentions she recognizes some of the armors in the crowd of so-called minions, meaning some in that army had been enslaved for at least fifty years. Aura is shown to take enjoyment from her victories. She takes satisfaction and pleasure in the torture of the subjugated person. None of the people she uses are there willingly. The soldiers aren't people to Aura, but even if the body decayed to dust, the soul remains and the soul suffers. What Frieren tells Aura to do in the end is in fact lesser than the pain Aura inflicted on the human knights whose souls she enslaved. Yet some in the audience become angry with Frieren for not demonstrating the appropriate emotion/contrition for her actions or providing Aura with a death that meets heroic standards. We feel bad for Aura who does show these emotions. Despite the pattern repeating itself, we sympathize with Aura for showing vulnerability because our expectations for her are different as a villain. We see her being recognizably like us by reacting the way we'd expect a "good" person to respond, and in our sympathy/empathy we dismiss the suffering Aura's caused. Which is, honestly, very interesting.

You made a really great argument. Thanks for your insight, I never thought that deep on the subject of feeling empathy towards the demons in this story. The character and shot analysis in the video beyond general observations was very nice to hear too.

I interpreted frirens smile as pride or satisfaction in knowing her friends can handle the threats in front of them and they don't need her to hold thier hands even if they don't quite believe in themselves.

I like how they depict demons on Frieren...I'm tired of monsters being put on a grey morality., specially just because they're humanised. Especially when the demon girl answered frieren that it only used the word "mother" coz it taps into our weakness. But I also love how Himmel instantly decides the final blow.

Demon in that world is not just evil incarnate..it is simply an entirely different species, and the fight with demon is not a fight to eradicate evil power, it is a matter of survival of humanity against the demon race

I fully agree that demons have emotions. There's only so much you can mimic before you realize that you can't tell the difference. The fact of the matter is that demons in the show are not peaceful creatures that deserve our empathy. The only goal they have for understanding human emotion is how they can use it to kill more humans. The only reason we feel bad is because they look like us, but there are real humans that do heinous acts like the demons and we can agree that they deserve the worse thing coming to them. So even if they have emotions, it does not mean they deserve our empathy. I also don't agree with the idea of dehumanizing them (even if they weren't human to begin with). It gives them the priviledge that all animals have; and that is operating instinctually for the sake of survival. These demons are fully conscious, logical and aware of what they are doing, they prey on weaker creature to satisfy their pride. They are evil to the bone. My point is we are allowed to feel bad, it shows that we empathy but f*ck 'em anyways

The fight against demons in Frieren is inspired by Judeo-Christian theology: "There is no dialogue with demons." Precisely because demons are not a race, to discuss whether they are good or bad, but rather an adjective that defines what is already bad. In this case Frieren is archetypically the perfect exorcist and that is why this anime is so good, because it visually portrays the true spiritual battle.

You're right but for a complex analysis of the psychology of demons it is necessary to read the manga (the anime is an amazing transposition but it is not yet far enough into the story to give you enough data to make a complete and correct reasoning). The big difference between Frieren and demons is that Frieren is activly triyng to understand human's emotions and feelings ( icant say muchmore beacuse it would be a spoiler but demons are not simple and plain human killing machines...)

I appreciate the nuance. Knowing an opponent's tactics makes them less effective but not ineffective. Even if the demons are irredeemably evil, I don't think it is wrong to feel sympathy for them. Even if you know you can't let that emotion prevent you from doing what must be done.

13:30 The difference is obviously she wants to change the fact that she is bad at forming relationships and developing herself in that sense not only for the purpose of surviving but in the other things they have many similarities

It's not just them begging for mercy. But rather their apparent inability to change themselves. Powerful and highly intelligent yet all of it is deficated to their own survival.

"you have no enemies, we can all co-exist together" said the demon "No Zoltraak" best among elf replied. Frieren = Based.

you know after's Himmel's death Aura first invaded the outer skirts villages near Graf Granat's Domain after that tried to kill all people inside the city but she can't because of Flamme's barrier so she just blocked the supply roads and then after that the previous lord marched to kill Aura with his greatest knights but failed to kill Aura and his subordinates and this war lasted for 30 years. and since the city is tired of fighting and losing precious supply they tried for peace talks which pretty much the end of the city if frieren didn't showed up and btw Demons on this world doesn't need to eat anything they just like to eat humans or torture humans because they like it

They're worse than wild beasts. They're *thinking* beasts. They are probably without a doubt, evil monsters. They eat humans, they learned human speech to better eat humans. As to why Aura was crying at the end, my guess is cause she lost. And she lost bad. We know demons can feel pride, it's one of their main emotions it seems like. And Aura got *humiliated* by a mage using, in her eyes, underhanded tactics.

This discussion reminds me of a scene from Star Trek: The Next Generation. When chasing an entity that lays entire planets to waste, with no discernable motives or seemingly ways to communicate with the humans it devours, captain Picard says: "... the sperm whale on Earth devours millions of cuttlefish as it roams the oceans. It is not evil; it is feeding. The same may be true of the Entity." And I suppose the same goes for the demons in Frieren. Do they deserve to die? Maybe not. Fighting for survival is not an evil act. However, I think you put it well near the end of the video when you said that when co-existence is impossible because the survival of one group is in opposition to the survival of another group, killing becomes necessary. The way I interpreted these episodes, and the way Frieren acts towards the demons, is that this is something she has long since internalized - be it out of vengeance for her family, out of survival, or care for those around her.

As if showing fear in the face of death, which every sentient being does, is an endearing trait xD

I love the way you break down scenes/angels.

4:03 No, it's not a translation error. Frieren's words are "覚えてない" "oboetenai" -I don't remember "あいつらは言葉で人間を誑かすんだよ" "aitsura wa kotoba de ningen o tabarakasundayo" aitsura - those guys kotoba de - words ningen - humans tabarakasu (誑かす) - deceive, seduce, trick, cheat. Maybe the "only" word is a translation flourish, but her words are, literally in Japanese, "Those guys use words to deceive humans"

17:34 - Actually they have a semblance of loyalty. Qual, right after knowing that the Demon King died, his first instinct was to avenge him. His top priority wasn't his own self-preservation, but to get revenge on the one that killed his king. Solitar, while disagreeing with Macht's beliefs that humans and demons can someday coexist, still aided him and even defended him when Frieren accused Macht of being a threat to mankind. Not exactly what would you expect from a race of psychopaths.

Frieren’s emotion in that scene was likely just boredom of having to wait for what she knew was going to happen, happen

What put me in the "no compassion for Demons" camp was how effectively the series showed how worthless are the words of Demons. When you showed a method of judging worth of Demons words, it humanized them back enough that I can feel compassion back for them. Beings that you can not comunicate with don't feel like people. When their words sometimes actually mean something they stop feeling like a rouge AI and start feeling like just psychotic killers. I still believe that Freiren has moral high ground in exterminating the Demons due to the fact that Demons being willing causes of every problem, and even Freiren occasionally veryfing if they will choose to go "full evil".