Let's Talk About That Disturbing Origami King Interview... 

“Stories don’t fit Paper Mario” Paper Mario was named Mario Story in Japan Pick One.

Paper Mario: No, you can't have original characters. Now go fight Gooper Blooper for the 15th time. Mario Odyssey: Here, go help these living forks get the fat bird away from the volcano by becoming a piece of meat.

People: “The story’s good but the combat’s still weird.” Nintendo: “Got it. We’ll remove the story.” People: “What? No - “

Why do they act like an rpg is too complicated or inaccessible for "casual" fans? I beat Paper Mario 64 when I was like...10 years old.

Mario Odyssey: Full of original characters. Released almost three years ago. Luigi’s Mansion 3: Full of original characters. Released last year. Paper Mario: “It’s no longer possible to add modified or original characters to Mario.”

What bothers me is the conflation between "character" and "species." "Goomba" is not a "Mario character." It's a species of characters! Making unique Goombas with names and quirky designs isn't modifying a character, it's using a species as a template and creating a brand new character! It's not the same as using a full-on *character* like Mario or Bowser as your base.

As the saying goes... "if it aint broke, don't fix it" They went to fix it, and they broke it.

Makes me wonder if this is also why Toadsworth has practically disappeared, he's an altered toad design which is now no longer allowed

"We like to do something different every time." > Only allowed to use generic stock character designs

"We don't want to do the same thing twice." New Super Mario Bros New Super Mario Bros Wii New Super Mario Bros 2 New Super Mario Bros U New Super Mario Bros U Deluxe My apologies, but that's bullcrap. (made some edits due to nitpicking)

How can these people say "wE aLwaYs WaNNa Do sOmeThiNg NeW" but then limit themselves to never making new characters? Like wtf?

What they don't understand is that their dedicated fans started out as casuals once upon a time. The reason those kids grew into dedicated fans is because the games were engaging and imaginative. EVERYONE gets bored of something that never changes. It baffles me how out of touch Nintendo is.

"we don't want to abandon casual players" The first two games were extremely accessible. I'm not sure what's talking about here. If you want to make it even more accessible, add a function to auto assign badges or something? Add a difficulty mode where good stuff happens more often, like the crowd throwing health restores at you more? I don't know, it doesn't seem that difficult. Casuals will buy the game because it has Mario on the box anyway.

The way that Miyamoto phrased it is in the western world a suggestion, but when a boss makes a suggestion like that in Japan it's not really a suggestion. It's telling you how to do your job.

"I do hear the fans, I just don't care."

Ironically the series with “new” in the title seems to add the least new things in their games.

“It’s impossible to modify characters since Sticker Star” But it’s fine to do stuff like Dr Baby Rosalina, Pink Gold Peach, Dr Goomba Tower? Yeah seems fair

“We cannot modify Mario characters anymore.” Pink Gold Peach Dr Baby Rosalina/Peach/Daisy Dr Fire Luigi Gold Dry Bowser Gold Dry Bones Luigi (Classic) Rosalina (swimsuit) Wario (hiker) Mario (hakama) (breathes deeply) *OK NINTENDO*

“They don’t want to do the same thing again” **Meanwhile at Gamefreak**

"you can't make new characters in mario" also maro: dark souls dragon

“No matter what, they don’t wanna do the same thing again” Pokémon: 👁👄👁💧 Edit: omg I usually hate these kinds of edits but fucking thank y’all for 1k likes never expected so many people to like this🤣

"Do you listen to fan feedback?" "We know there is feedback. We don't listen to it"

Here's the thing about this whole "casual" thing. Paper Mario: Sticker Star and Color Splash aren't even casual-friendly games. Like, at all. They have bullshit unnecessary inventory management, counter-intuitive ideas where avoiding battles is actually beneficial, trial-and-error puzzles where you have to have a specific Thing which discourages using them in battle... And don't even get me started on the battle controls of Color Splash. These games are complex in their own weird nonsensical ways, which are much more of a turnoff for casuals than some basic RPG elements.

A paraphrased quote from Ant-Dude. Edited for this context. "This game suffers from an identity crisis. It either wants to emulate what made the franchise great in the first place, or wants to make sure each *game* is different just for the sake of every *game* being different regardless if the *gimmicks* are *any good*. Spoiler. It didn't really work." But in this case, they're absolutely going for the latter.

These developers are so out-of-touch. Reminds me of when Junichi Masuda claimed that they don't make "jerk" Pokemon rivals anymore because due to the newer graphics, they don't have to have strong personalities to convey emotion. Like what on earth is that reasoning?

Funny how they dont want to focus on the story of a game that originally was conceived as, and titled, Mario Story.

Paper Mario: we don't like to do the same thing twice Also paper Mario: uses sticker based battles twice in a row. Does the same "fill in the broken/Uncolored world" mechanic twice in a row...

Disturbing isn’t quite a strong enough word. Nintendo wants to “always do something new” but then stifle creativity so hard at every turn and then seem confused when some games are received so poorly.

5:57 “What it sounds like he’s saying is-“ State Farm ad: “accidents happen.” That was the only time I enjoyed RU-vid’s midroll ads.

"It's no longer possible to modify Mario characters or create original characters." This is infuriating, uncalled for, and unfair to everyone

bro super paper mario's story, writing, and characters CARRIED it.

Here's my opinion on this interview: It is definitely frightening, but it is also a symptom of a real problem; Nintendo doesn't like how contract developers expand upon the Mario brand. Apparently, there was a rumor going around on twitter explaining that the reason why the Mario world has to be kept "consistent" was because Nintendo created a watchdog team in response to how many contract developers making games for the Mario IP were taking more creative liberties than what the Big N would like. Their purpose is to apparently railroad developers into keeping with already established Mario conventions for the world and that they are not allowed to take as many creative liberties outside of one-shot characters. As suspicious as this rumor is, I definitely believe for it to be true because of the demise of one company: AlphaDream. Prior to this team established during the Wii era, AlphaDream had expanded heavily upon the Marioverse with their games; Superstar Saga introduced the BeanBean Kingdom, Partners in Time introduced the Shroobs, Bowser's Inside Story expanded upon the lore of the Mushroom Kingdom and Dream Team (despite being a game developed post-team creation) established a lore involving dreams and nightmares in the Mushroom Kingdom. After these four games? AlphaDream made Paper Jam, which felt significantly less ambitious with its world and characters, and the next two games were remakes! Superstar Saga was a needed remake, but Bowser's Inside Story was not needed whatsoever, yet they remade it despite it being one of the worst ideas ever. But why? This is where the idea of a Mario Watchdog team by Nintendo starts making sense; after their development of Dream Team concluded, this team more than likely forced AlphaDream into either creating new Mario games with new guidelines or remake older games. That would explain why explain why this once thriving developer was forced into making mediocrity and ended up dying from it. Keep in mind that this team only goes after contracted developers working on specifically Mario-branded games. This means that Mario Odyssey is excluded because the core Mario team can freely expand upon the lore of the Mario games and games like Luigi's Mansion and WarioWare are excluded because they are not specifically Mario-branded games despite having Mario characters in them. It's all about Brand Protection when it comes to this team, and Tanabe's words allude to how the existence of such a team exists.

"Story doesn't work" So we're just going to ignore the first two paper Mario games, Super Mario RPG, the entire Mario and Luigi saga

I don’t understand why they’re cool with their in-house devs going crazy with new and weird stuff like Odyssey but post-2008 they seem to keep their second party devs/partners at gunpoint. They should be able to clearly see that people respond well and like when Mario goes unique and weird

“It is no longer possible to make good games.”

It’s like the guys in charge just hate everything that made Thousand Year Door great with a passion

They just need to be pressed on that specific line. I wish they did. "WHY is it no longer possible to modify Mario characters or to create original characters that touch on the Mario universe?" That's all I want in this world.

NO! Super’s story being absolutely balls to the wall insane was what made that game memorable, I remember Count Bleck, I remeber Dimentio, I remember the fucking desth of the universe.

The thing about making the games casual friendly is, I was eight when the first Paper Mario came out. Now I was TERRIBLE at RPGs, I couldn't even beat Mario RPG on the SNES until years later because I was so bad at it, and even Pokemon I had trouble with. But Paper Mario was so intuitive and well designed that even I could handle its mechanics and figure them out well enough to beat it on my own. Sure, TTYD was harder, but not by much and it had a lot more quality of life improvements that made it still accessible. How in the WORLD is that not casual friendly?

"We can't exactly do the same thing that's been done before" Press F for F-zero...

“Am I out of touch? No. It is the fans who are wrong.”

This made me realize a game like Super Mario RPG would never fly in this day and age. Forget Paper Mario and Mario and Luigi which modify a few enemies and added a few unique species, Super Mario RPG just started the game with a talking sword falling into Bowser's castle, a superboss ripped straight from Final Fantasy, and basically almost all original enemies and bosses.

“We don’t want to use the same things twice” *continues to keep the fixing holes in the world mechanic*

If it’s no longer possible to make a good Paper Mario then it’s no longer possible for me to buy Paper Mario games.

I kinda read that line as being "Weeeeeeell I hear you, but bosses say we can't do that, so uh, please enjoy stuff they do allow us to do"

It’s almost like the Devs REALLY want to make the games so good but they’re being held back... something is wrong

I would pay money to have a seat with these people and gently, but directly, debunk their claims.

What Nintendo Says: “No, We can’t make a cool story, or create new and lovable characters because it would make things too complicated in the Mario universe.” What Nintendo Means: “Yes. We can make an interesting story, and create characters that people will love and remember... BUUUT... that doesn’t mean we SHOULD.”

I love the implication that experience points aren't casual friendly. Ah yes, defeating an enemy to fill a meter is so hardcore, definitely not casual friendly at all. Pokemon is regarded as a kid's game. Exp is the most important thing in that game. So intense. So hardcore.

Tanabe: We at Nintendo are always striving to try something new. Also Tanabe: It's not possible to do anything new with Mario.

This might seem sad or disturbing to some, but it's oddly relieving to me. It's confirmation of what I already knew, that 64 and TTYD era Paper Mario games are never coming back. I can stop holding onto the vague hope that "maybe this one will be different".

7:45 ... .... Paper Mario has traditionally been *an RPG series* . How do you move the game away from its RPG roots and then tell people not to think of it as an RPG game? We already have a Mario adventure series, *it's the Mario series* . If you're going to have a spin-off series, *leave the RPG alone* .

The inability to create unique characters is soooo stupid.

So basically the moral of this story is that Nintendo is afraid their second party studios will make something as great as Odyssey instead of them and fears Mario having depth.

This guy must really hate JRPGs if he wants to make everything appeal to the casuals. This only makes people feel less and less about the Paper Mario series.

I'm starting to believe that TTYD was just an accidental success that happened by complete chance..

‘We don’t want to do the same thing twice’ *cries in nsmb*

EDIT 2: Thanks for reading my absurdly long comment, y’all. I just wanted to post a big reminder up here that it’s all speculation at the end of the day. I've also come to believe that there are likely many other factors beyond just Miyamoto's involvement. As a side note, the Iwata Asks archive isn't actually "broken" as I originally thought and the "treatment of Bowser" quote is actually something Tanabe said in the Sticker Star I.A. So the Dream Team stuff is pure speculation on my part. Apologies for the mistake. Original comment follows: It’s Miyamoto. It’s always been Miyamoto. At least, there’s copious evidence for it. This will be very long, but if anyone cares to know why things went the way they did with Paper Mario and the Mario RPGs in general, I believe I have a pretty solid evidence-based theory (and clearly too much time on my hands). The Sticker Star Iwata Asks interview makes it pretty clear cut how much Miyamoto “persevered” with the series, as Iwata says, and what he wanted in terms of characters and story (and this is Miyamoto, these aren’t just “suggestions” when the man is treated like a god at the company), but in an interview about Color Splash with Game Informer from 2016 (“Afterwords-Paper Mario: Color Splash” if you want to google it), Tanabe reiterates how he is just respecting Miyamoto’s wishes when asked about the generic character designs. The “no longer possible” phrasing is scary, but I think it’s just a translation thing and his meaning is likely the same as “no longer allowed”, or basically just another reiteration of the "rules" except not throwing Miyamoto under the bus with fans this time. But it goes much deeper than that. If you look at the timeline of Mario RPGs and Mario games overall, there is a very clear turnover when things started to take a turn for the more homogenized and less varied and creative, basically after the success of New Super Mario Bros. and Super Mario Galaxy, the latter of which, while very creative in a lot of ways, was also the 3D Mario to bring back a lot of familiar classic aesthetic elements after the deviant Super Mario Sunshine. After this point, the main Mario series went from being almost as diverse as the Zelda franchise to largely a series of derivative sequels and nostalgic throwbacks until Odyssey breathed some much needed life into it a decade after Galaxy first hit the scene. Then we have the RPGs, typically always where Mario could be free to really get weird and different, but that also began to change after Super Paper Mario in 2007 and Bowser’s Inside Story in 2009. There was Sticker Star in 2012 of course, but then there was Mario & Luigi: Dream Team in 2013, a game with plenty of new characters and non-standard elements, sure, but *spoiler warning if you haven't played it* also a very awkward shoehorning of Bowser into the story, where he uncharacteristically steals the spotlight from the game’s original antagonist instead of the other way around, as had been par for the course for the RPGs up to that point. I recall reading an interview at the time (probably the Iwata Asks for Dream Team, which I’d confirm but the Iwata Asks archive seems to be completely broken these days) where the developers made a comment about Miyamoto being critical of the way they’d treated Bowser in the past, perhaps alluding to the RPGs' long history of tending to treat Bowser like a joke or an afterthought, or alternatively as an anti-hero, which perhaps Miyamoto didn't like. Fast-forward to 2015 and we have Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam, an instance of Sticker Star’s influence *literally* invading the Mario & Luigi series, and while admittedly a game I never played because of how bland it looked, seemed by all accounts to basically be the “Sticker Star” of Mario & Luigi games, featuring a homogenized cast of characters, the Koopalings, bog-standard environments…all that stuff many of us have come to know and loathe. Afterwards we got "cleaned up" remakes of Superstar Saga and BIS, which make alterations to the more novel character designs from the original games, homogenizing the toads and giving certain enemies like the Hammer Bros. their now standard design. Games like Super Paper Mario and BIS might have just gone too far and felt “not Mario” anymore to Miyamoto, deviating too greatly from the way he envisions the world and characters he originally created, and as Tanabe put it, leading the games “away from the Mario universe”, so he reined them in. There's also the fact that Miyamoto has on numerous occasions demonstrated that he really doesn't think Mario and involved stories mix, and apparently even when it comes to the RPGs, so just the very instance of a Mario game having a story at all might be seen as getting "away from the Mario universe" to Miyamoto. He might have also just wanted to simplify and homogenize the whole Mario family to keep things neat and simple. Miyamoto seems to like simplicity to an extent, and mainly seems to focus on game mechanics to an extreme degree, so anything that doesn’t underlie those mechanics in some way or draw their “form from function” as has been discussed in the past might seem extraneous and contemptible to him. I’ve long had a theory that for the last decade or so perhaps only the core Super Mario series (games like 3D World and Odyssey) have been allowed by Miyamoto to introduce original elements, or perhaps Miyamoto simply trusts Yoshiaki Koizumi and his developers with the brand, whereas Tanabe broke that trust with the previous Paper Mario weirdness he got away with. So Koizumi gets to have New Donkers and Steam Gardeners and Tanabe has to strain to make a sea of identical toads stand out. Maybe I’m going too far into the realm of speculation now, but at the very least it does seem that Paper Mario *uniquely* has to play it safe at the moment. It's possible the Switch era marks a change in this policy, and perhaps at this point the PM series is just stuck in a rut in this regard that Sticker Star put it in...Miyamoto might not even actively be requesting generic characters anymore, but Tanabe and company might just assume or are used to this way now. Look, I know people love Miyamoto and it might be hard to accept that he might be the main reason why one of their favorite series drastically lost its way, and I don’t want to start a hate train on Miyamoto with all this. The man is a legend, and deserves plenty of respect, but I’m of the opinion that series like Mario and Zelda have grown beyond him, and now have a variety of people that can be called their “creators” in a sense. *Especially* a spin-off like Paper Mario, which Miyamoto ultimately probably had little actual creative involvement in by the time of TTYD and SPM, when it really established its unique identity. In addition, I don’t think that the problem is that Miyamoto is a terrible meddler with terrible ideas, but rather he’s an eccentric creative mind that like all creatives can have good ideas and bad ideas. The real problem is how much power he has, and how often he’s gone unquestioned due to the enormous amount of respect he garners at the company. Any time one person has this much creative power in this kind of situation, it can lead to trouble. So basically, while I’m sure Tanabe certainly has a good amount of say in the direction of these games, he far from deserves all the blame (not saying that’s what Arlo is doing, for the record, just speaking generally). When Tanabe says “the elaborate story led the game away from the Mario universe” and immediately follows it with “personally, I like games with stories” (note the *personally* here), to me that sounds like, “look, I liked the more involved storytelling too, but my hands are tied here”. That said, he does seem to genuinely have a ton of respect for Miyamoto, so he may be content with working within these restrictions, for better or worse (…for worse in my opinion, obviously). Also, in addition to everything I’ve discussed about Miyamoto’s role in all this, the simple fact that the staff making Paper Mario now is mostly entirely different than the original staff of the first three is a major factor that many people are either unaware of or frequently ignore. For me, the Mario series should be a creative canvas open to pretty much anything, which is exactly what it used to be, so I am strongly opposed to any kind of muting of the series’ creativity in these ways, but I just wanted to offer some possible, reasonable explanations as a longtime, somewhat jaded but still passionate Nintendo fan who can’t help but see all the patterns after following all this junk for so long. For now, I’ve personally made the decision to just not buy these new PM games if I still see these frustrating restrictions in place. Origami King looks pretty cool in many ways and a definite improvement from SS and CS in terms of characterization, storytelling, and environments from what I've seen and heard, so I’ll try to pick it up used at a discount much later, but the most effective way to really tell Nintendo I’m unhappy with the fact that the developers aren't allowed to alter a toad or make an original character design for flip's sake is to just not give them my money, even if the impact of such might ultimately be minute. If you actually got through all this, thanks for reading. And please join me in now taking a much-needed break from the Nintendo bubble for a little while. EDIT: I found another important, potentially illuminating detail. It might not be solely Miyamoto to blame, but rather a "quality assurance" team (that likely includes Miyamoto) assigned to keeping tabs on the Mario series. This comment is already too long for youtube, so I had to post the details of this discovery in the comments below this post.

After this interview one thing becomes clear: Olly did nothing wrong.

And this moment. The second I saw this specific response that it's "no longer possible to create new characters". I currently have given up on paper Mario as a whole. Y'all can enjoy the games. I'm not stopping you. But for me they will never go back to exactly what made people like the series in the first place.

Here's a giant piece to the puzzle I want to add to your discussion Arlo - Nintendo EPD is VERY likely the division who is enforcing this rule. Like you mentioned, the games from EPD are not under the rule of using only pre-established characters, like we see in Super Mario Odyssey. Not only do Nintendo EPD make games and consoles, they also manage and license properties, alongside producing and supervising development for contracted studios. It's basically the "Nintendo" we think of, when we say Nintendo. And one of the rules they made with all their "contracted studios" was only using pre-established Mario characters, MEANING characters from EPD. That's why Intelligent Systems not only can't make new original characters, but also why they can't use old characters outside of EPD, like for example from Super Paper Mario or The Thousand Year Door, since those are games not made from Nintendo EPD. This is the EXACT line that has been made. That's also why you don't see other characters from outside EPD in Mario Sports games like Mario Aces. It's all old characters from EPD. It kinda makes sense if you think about it. Nintendo EPD probably wants control over one of their most valuable IP's, and don't want people to think the Mario world is any different than the way they imagine it. And they are of course not going to put the restrictions on themselves. That's why they can make new characters, whereas others can't. And in situations like mobile apps and theme parks, this rule MAKES SENSE. Letting other people control your universe can be scary, and could potentially damage your IP. But in the case of Paper Mario (and other games) it's really sad, because it hurts the games. And I think it ironically damages the Mario IP more, than it protects it.

I mean the original games were already simplified RPG experiences... Accesible to all people

After watching this I am absolutely shocked we’re even getting a Thousand Year Door remaster These quotes are insane especially the last one

Why is it that instead of more obscure Mario characters and enemies, we get office supplies?

If Intelligent Systems is not allowed to alter any of the mainline Mario baddies, then why can't they use a new variety of Mario universe baddies than just the traditional Goomba and Koopa? The directive was that they can't manipulate any of the existing models but that doesn't mean they have to constantly use the same models over and over again. We have Piantas, we have Broodals, we have forks and spoons, we have Lumas. Tanabe has got a buffet of options here for NPC's but instead he delves back into the same ol' Goomba and Koopa well.

Whoa, whoa, whoa...people didn't like Super Paper Mario's story? Its arguably the best part of the game. Also, PLEASE leave Metroid Prime out of this. You guys are starting to worry me about MP4.

Funny thing is that Bowser Jr's Journey even added new and original characters into the game while still giving amazing development to Jr and the Koopalings. I actually felt bad for them and Kamek quite a bit.

Them coming to the conclusion that people didn't like SPM because it was too complex is insulting.

I would like it if they made a “Mario Story” franchise in the same style as the old Paper Mario games.

"It's impossibly to modify existing chara-" TAKE A KOOPA. GIVE HIM THE OVERLY 90S AESTHETIC. RADIKOOPA. BAM. NEW CHARACTER. "Impossible"? More like "Excuse".

"noooooo!!!!! You can't have original characters in your new games!!!!!" "haha funny fork people going byoingg"

This interview solidified my opinion on any future paper mario games. They dont want to make the game I want. Therefore I'm not interested anymore. I'm not gonna buy their games, they dont get my money, it's fine. At least we have Bug Fables and Scrap Story. I'll just buy those games instead.

Do you listen to fan feedback? Tanabe: “Yes, but to those people I say, there’s so much new stuff in these games. That should be enough for you. Stop complaining about old stuff, k thanks bye.”

Nintendo has a love-hate relationship with us: We love them, but they are doing their best to make us hate them.

This interview confirms that classic Paper Mario has been laid to rest by Nintendo. With the new stipulations regarding character design and story that Tanabe claims the series has to adhere to, I do not think they would even be able to remake/remaster PM64 or TTYD without completely marring all of its uniqueness - sort of like how the Superstar Saga remake made all of the original Mario characters and enemies generic.

Paper Mario creaters: "hey umm w-would it be ok if we can have original chara-" High level Nintendo employee: *N O*

What really frustrates me with nintendo's persistence on accessibility is that it can be easily solved just by adding a difficulty option, its literally that simple. Easy mode for casuals and normal and hard mode for everybody else. So many AAA titles already do this so its all the more baffling that nintendo willingly chooses to compromise the entire gameplay experience when the solution is right there

Nintendo: You have to have new ideas if you want your games to sell. Intelligent Systems: Can we make new character designs so that enemies don't stay bland? Nintendo: No.

I have to praise the interviewer, because that are some really good questions.

No exp, no badges, no partners, no return to an RPG format, no new Mario characters, and no complex stories. While this is sad news, I am glad they decided to be transparent about this, as we can now adjust our expectations. Now we know Paper Mario will never be good again, so we don't have to be dissapointed again and again every couple of years. They have made it clear that they will no longer be catering to, nor acknowledging the existence of, the original fanbase, as they have learned they can make more money by catering entirely to casual newcomers. Always remember that Nintendo is a major corporation, they don't care about you, they care about sales.

The funny thing is, as a "casual gamer" who really only plays life sims and farming games... these new gimmicky Paper Mario games don't appeal to me at all.

This whole thing sounds like corporate talk at it's worst and that is really sad.

That last quote is kind of disgusting

"I'm sure if you've played Paper Mario: The Origami King, you'll understand just how many ideas we've managed to pack into one game." Does it matter if those ideas suck?

Random interviewer on the street: “At it’s core, what are the paper Mario games to you” Literally every paper Mario fan ever: “a really fun RPG” Tanabe: *WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*

It’s disappointing to hear what is quite possibly THE OPPOSITE of switch era game development.

Plot Twist: Tanabe has a very young grandson who's first game that he ever played was Paper Mario: Color Splash, and to this date it is his most favorite video game ever. The bland story and characters were just enough to keep up with his 7 year-old mind and the use of Paper gimmicks inspired him to get an A+ in his art class. This led the young boy to be very close with his grandfather, whom he loved even more than his own parents. Just before the time another PM game was to be released, the boy said "Are you making a Color Splash 2 this year?" Tanabe didnt know what to say, he was already overwhelmed by Color Splash's horrid sales and the constant backlash and hate he received from it, but he didnt want to dissapoint his grandson. He thought for a while, wondering what he should do, and he eventually gave up to his will and decided to make the game the way his grandson wanted. The End.

Nintendo 50% creative artist 50% soulless corporation

I think this points to the issue with the "bringing something new" argument. Mario Odyssey brings new ideas and mechanics, but it unquestionably plays like a sequel to Mario 64. SS/CS/TOK don't feel like they're sequels to 64/TTYD. The problem isn't that the games aren't "TTYD clones," it's that they don't even feel like they're part of the same series anymore. If you like that change, that's fine. There's nothing wrong with liking the new games. But people don't want a TTYD clone. They just want to play a game that feels like it's part of the same series.

14:09 _Gee, I wonder WHY Bobby is so popular. Could it possibly be that they have a somewhat unique design? Or that there was a genuinely good story, that almost flawlessly leads to a genuinely good character arc for them? ...NAAAAAHHHHHHHHH_

The weirdest part is the first two games in the Paper Mario series seem pretty casual friendly imo. Outside of maybe Pokémon they’re like the most casual friendly RPGs I’ve seen.

Let's face facts: Nintendo is out of touch with fans and they're think we're stupid little idiots who don't know good game design at all

13:42 Paper mario: *is paper because its like a story book* This dude: "I like stories but Paper Mario doesnt really fit with stories."

There's a broader discussion regarding the character stuff in the greater context of Mario Spinoffs in general. There's even a lot with how characters are portrayed. Mario Strikers Charged probably cannot exist in the same way after roughly the release of Mario Galaxy which is where they started to have a tighter grip on the Mario Brand.

“We don’t want to ignore casuals.” So that excuses your actions to ignore and ultimately betray your long-time fans? “We wanna do ‘new’ things.” Your other series don’t do this and you’ve repeated the same mistakes with this series THREE times, now.

Being stubborn and self contradictory hurts brands and franchises....

Miyamoto has doubled down on rules that are the antithesis of the innovation that commanded my respect for him in the first place while at the same time mandating that the wheel be reinvented in ways that effectively prevent it from rolling. He needs to seriously reexamine his own preconceptions of where brand integrity and gameplay evolution are respectively needed before he issues any more orders from above to Tanabe and anybody else with hands on Mario or Zelda. Otherwise, he's doomed to have his life's labors end up in the same dumpster fire that George Lucas's did.

The worst part is that we don't even have the Mario & Luigi series to counterbalance the death of Paper Mario anymore.

Nintendo: we always want to do something new and original! Also Nintendo: we are no longer allowed to add new and original characters. Wtf Nintendo, do you want to be original with your games or not?

Nintendo RPGs really aren’t doing so hot. > Mario RPG is dead > Mario & Luigi is dead > Paper Mario is no longer an RPG > Pokemon lost its charm after the DS games On the bright side, people reminisce on the good times with Mario RPG and Mario & Luigi and people finally appreciate Super Paper Mario and Gen 5.