Talking About Paper Mario Has Become Kind of Awful 

I've had someone refer to me as a member of the "TTYD Nazi Party" led by "Arlo Hitler." They were being completely serious.

"Twitter is exclusively my social media presence" Well that was your first mistake my friend

Trying to have a civil discussion on Twitter is futile regardless of the subject matter.

The comments of this comment section contains: 50% of people talking about opinions of Paper Mario 35% of people talking about how Twitter is a bad platform 15% of people talking about how they haven't heard of GameFly in forever

I haven’t heard from GameFly in like 5 years. I can’t believe they randomly sponsored Arlo. Edit: Apparently my comment was sponsored by GameFly as well. Thank you?

There are three topics that would likely start a heated argument: 1. Politics 2. Religion 3. One's opinion on the Paper Mario games

"I like going online and complaining about games I haven't played." - Francis, Super Paper Mario

You don't even have to imagine that Splatoon scenario. Just think if Federation Force 2 was announced instead of Prime 4.

Arlo: If I like less than half of the games am I a true fan? Monkey Ball Fans: *sweats nervously*

I don’t understand how he makes this puppet so expressive, like honestly, “If I don’t get some new games to play I... will... Die.” The eyes peer directly at you even tho they don’t move. I don’t get it, but I love it

So essentially the Paper Mario fanbase has become Anakin; "If you're not with me, then you're my enemy!"

Discussing Paper Mario nowadays is like discussing politics.

Everybody: *talking about Paper Mario* Me: "... Gamefly is still relevant?"

Arlo: "So they roll by just long enough to call me a whiny, entitled-" RU-vid Ad: "-LETTUCE!"

You’d think assuming a neutral stance is the best stance to take in this situation, but nope. Instead of having both the critics and supporters at least understand with the points you make, you instead get flack from both parties. This “if you’re not with me, you’re against me” mentality really needs to die, but sadly it isn’t going to anytime soon.

"You're not a real fan if you like the new games." "You're not a real fan unless you can accept ALL the games." My experience with the Crash Bandicoot fanbase in a nutshell.

Twitter is suffering, return to the real world friend we miss you.

You can like The Origami King You can not like The Origami King You can still be a fan of the series regardless of the games you like. Just stop throwing insults at each other. Color Splash years were terrible, we don’t want a repeat of that.

SMH everyone knows that Paper Mario is OBJECTIVELY a game. EDIT: You're not a _REAL_ fan unless you enjoy one or more of the games!

"The era of the internet" made it so every opinion is now a sports team, where you defend it no matter what at any cost because you tie your identity to it, if someone doesn't like what you like or disagrees wtih you they're personally attacking you and everything you believe in and you have to stand up for what you know is the real and only option! Happens in meaningless things like sports or fandoms and happens in more important things like politics, there's no room for middle ground or room for nuanced conversations. So pick your teams and have fun fighting everyone else who clearly choose the wrong one.

> Twitter is where I have most of my discussion There's your problem, Arlo. Twitter is just a cesspool of crap, it's short message nature is not conducive to long form, thought out discussion. At best, it's good for snippy hot takes that ruffle some feathers, but also get people thinking and talking. If you want to actually discuss things, do it literally anywhere else. *EDIT:* Some people are fairly pointing out that it's not something that is limited to twitter, so I'll elaborate a bit: Twitter is a breeding ground for toxic behavior because of the nature of the website. Yes these problems happen elsewhere, and arlo addresses most of the core concerns of that in the video. I'm just pointing out how using twitter, especially *exclusively,* is exasperating the problem.

Arlo: “Talking about Paper Mario has become kind of awful.” Me: looks over at Aramaru, Dave Mathew, and Mr. Hater. “You have a point.”

the best part of this, is this can be applied to ANYTHING involving a debate.

One thing nobody mentions about the Paper Mario games: They have amazing translations. I'm Spanish, but I prefer to play most games in English nowadays. Except for Paper Mario. This doesn't have much to do with anything, I just thought I would mention it

I'm seeing a lot of people accuse me of making generalizations about "supporters," but I think a lot of you are forgetting that I'm not talking about REASONABLE supporters in this video. As with the "critics," I'm talking about the most extreme, fanatical examples. Obviously lots and lots of TOK fans have played the old games, and many of them are being super civil. But I personally rarely (if ever) see a fanatical, anti-TTYD supporter say they've played the old games. Heck, very often they haven't even played TOK, they just like to fight with people they think are being annoying. Point is, if you're having a civil discussion about any of this, you're not the kind of person I'm talking about in this video. Also, it's come to my attention that the audio in this video is a little quiet. Sorry about that, must have been some kind of editing mix-up we didn't notice. Honestly, based on past experience, there is a 98.3% chance it was my fault, LOL.

"Nope, you're nitpicking and biased. I win, bye bye!"

Having a civil discussion on the internet is so dang difficult. I really hate the culture we have developed. It's not great

TTYD is one of my favorite games of all time, and I still love Origami King. That is all.

I'm a simple woman. I see "Paper Mario", I click.

Pokemon,Star Wars and Paper Mario are the franchises that aren't fun to talk about anymore

"obviously at the end of the day none of this matters too much" Pretty much sums up all yt drama

Arlo, I think the problem isn't necessarily people, its because Twitter is an awful platform that encourages people to act like this

I'm... very shocked Gamefly is still alive o.o

I really hope people don’t misread the title and miss the first two words.

Fans of the Sonic Adventure and Hironobu Sakaguchi Final Fantasy games: "Welcome to the club, Arlo."

To tell the truth if they just changed the name of Paper Mario when Tanabe took over it wouldn't been an issue, because like Teen Titans, I don't think it's reasonable to compare the originals to Go!, seeing they have both different story styles and audiences. The fact that Tanabe said the series ORIGINALLY is all about the paper, means he fundamentally misses the point why the original game was made. And if you remove a fundemental the blocks on top will already be flawed to those who have the same fundamental belief as the original games. Think about it: if they kept the WarioLand name for the WarioWare games, which has a different gameplay and more focused on select characters than an explorative world typically with only Wario, I wonder what the conversation would be.

The people who didn't watch the video are the people who need to see it the most.

I haven't watched the whole video but the Splatoon example, holy shit now I get how much bothering is for you damn, I'm sorry you deal with such big bummer

This video aged like a fine wine after the Steve in Smash reveal, and everyone's doing the EXACT SAME THING

Fanbases for inappropriate and violent games: happy and peaceful Fanbases for kids games: war,criticts and defenders

8:11 "Here's sixty bucks!" ...t-that's one hundred and eighty-six bucks...

For me a line is crossed when "Objectivity" gets thrown into the mix and used as a weapon. In general, I've come to despise that term because people assume it automatically validates them. Just saying something is objective doesn't make it so, and to me when people claim their take is "objective" it actually invalidates their argument a little bit. I firmly believe that games are art, and like any art design philosophy is subjective and will never please everyone. Disagreements are inevitable. Some people just want to see the same formula refined to higher quality. Others want a radically different experience every time. Some people don't even like any of the games. Any fanbase is like this, and it usually stems from a singular title that is considered the "divergence point". Elder Scrolls has the argument of the series dumbing down since Morrowind. Smash Bros has the argument of the series being more casual since Melee. Final Fantasy now has a divergence since the games are usually action-oriented and no longer turn-based. I myself give every game a chance, even if I have a favorite. This is another problem I see: That unless the golden standard is surpassed, a new game is trash. Some people enjoy Origami King but will say they like TYD better. For the vocal minority, however, it's all or nothing. I mean, if I can't enjoy something that exceeds my best experience that I would never enjoy another 2d platformer because I still thing Yoshi's Island is the absolute best in that category. What I can respect from you Arlo is that while critical of the new game's direction, you will still give credit to aspects that are actually good and enjoyable. That's what we need more of; people that will be honest with not only others, but themselves. The "flawless or garbage" stance is too common in discourse, to the point that I also get grouped into an extreme category even when I often stand in the middle on something.

The internet for DECADES now is just one big case of the loudest angriest people turning it into the ultimate example of “One bad apple spoils the bunch”. Ugh.

In summary: The problem isn't about the critics, or the supporters. The problem isn't with one side of that line. The problem is with people on either side who are taking these views to the extreme and lashing out in hatred at anyone who doesn't immediately agree with them entirely. Sadly, this isn't unique to paper mario, or even video games. Almost any major controversial topic being discussed on the internet will have something like this going on

"you're just a ttyd fan" Me, who likes spm the most,: ah yes, ttyd

People need to learn to allow people to dislike games, I even liked sticker star but I don't get frustrated whenever anyone says they don't like the game because there's an actual reason for and most people aren't hating just for the sake of hating

The word "objective" should never be near anything artistic. Things that are objective are things like "2 + 2 = 4" or "water is liquid". How we perceive anything is not objective, because none of us look at any given thing the same. We can all look at the same picture and have radically different feelings about it. When it comes to design philosophies, there's nothing objective there either. They're stepping stones that we made up that should theoretically make something more enjoyable. And they work, for sure, but they're definitely no formula for making something objectively good. A game could be the most objectively well designed game ever made but I could still dislike it because the setting is medieval fantasy while I prefer modern settings or sci Fi or something like that. Even beyond that, sometimes things just don't hit you the way they should, or sometimes they do when they haven't for many others. Especially true for videogames where everyone has a different experience

I’ve seen some of the fights going on in the comments and want to say this: part of the problem is that when companies make something that is part of a series, the intent is to cash in on the fact that there are fans of the others. For example: if “The Last Jedi” had not been apart of a previous series or continuity, or had been framed as a possible future and not the definitive events that followed, there would have been way less backlash. I think that if TLJ had not been sold or marketed as the continuation of Star Wars and as it’s own thing it would have been a better movie without the backlash. I think the same could have been said of any series that takes a drastic turn. From Paper Mario to The Legend of Zelda. It also doesn’t help that Nintendo seemed so good at listening to the fans back in the mid 2000’s. When fans complained that TLZ: Wind Waker was childish and not what they wanted, they made Twilight Princess. One game was complained about a little bit and Nintendo made a game for the fans that was more like what they wanted. I’m just saying that the fan’s shouldn’t be blamed for not liking something when they don’t like it, but should be held accountable for scaring people away from a franchise or series they love because they don’t like a part of it.

Arlo: “This video is sponsored by GameFly” Me: “Haven’t heard this name in like 6 years”

“Let’s say you love splatoon” You know me too well.

12:44 HERE. THIS. THIS RIGHT HERE.

Don't forget the fact that it always devolves into a "You're immoral" finger pointing fight. One time I was expressing that I wasn't exactly upset about Mario 3D Allstars being limited, and when I explained my thought process I was told that I was "blaming the consumer" and there was one guy who thought he was a master of logic and flipped everything I said back onto me to try to "disassemble" an argument I wasn't even making in the first place. All I did was express how I felt and I was immediately demonized by people I didn't know. It was pretty funny.

Stuff like this has actually become the main reason I stopped using Twitter, the place is such a cesspool of arguing that it just stopped being fun for me.

This is the kind of political news I like of hear.

Yeah let's just forget about toxic Paper Mario and instead talk about Sma- *Steve gets revealed for Smash and divides the community* Oh god dammit

Here’s the truth, like it or not: ALL criticism is subjective, whether they want to admit it or not. Once you realize this, life will get a lot easier.

As a splatoon fan, your example was truly terrifying

8:11 Arlo: "Here's my 60 bucks!" Also Arlo: sticks out $186

I hope the Origami King supporters give Thousand Year Door a chance. As an Undertale fan, I know that a fandom can completely turn people away from playing a really good game, and that's the last thing I want to happen to anyone.

Loving these videos coming up again since PMTYD remake was announced. Super excited to finally have an opportunity to try this game that has been held up high. I have no idea what the story is about but still super excited. As for the argument: "¿Porque no los dos?"

You need to watch CGP Grey’s “This video will make you angry.” It explains why this stuff happens and knowing why has helped me deal with these kinds of people.

This is what always happens with "internet discourse." You can't expect reasonable conversation when virtually anyone is able to chime in.

I belly-laughed at the end when Arlo said "nothing will compare to the storm when the review drops...". The silent gaze off to the side was just too funny. I really hope people can calm down and listen objectively to your opinion for both sides of the argument. And also I'm really looking forward to the upcoming Origami Review. Just finished my own review and I'm excited to compare my opinion with whatever your opinion may be!

Same with Sonic. Right now I'm being told off for liking forces and supporting the split timeline on the sonic fandom. Stuff sucks man.

As a huge splatoon fan, the analogy was really good and now I'm scared

Me: **Has an opinion** The internet: “Splish splash, your opinion is trash”

Fun Fact: The biggest RU-vid reply chain I've seen was on a Paper Mario video.

I love the nostalgia blind argument since I actually played TTYD after Origami King and yeah, that game provides a fond experience Origami King just refuses you. Also I'm not on Twitter but I wonder if it's still anywhere as bad as it was 2 years ago.

It's honestly not just the Paper Mario fanbase...it's a major social problem in general. Identity politics is becoming the new norm and "us vs them" is too common a mindset in every facet of life, whether it's who you think should be president or what video game you like. It's honestly so sad that this social unrest even permeates into something as casual as a video game fanbase, lol. I try to be better by being an example. Be the kind of person who can have civil discourse and hope that others learn from you. It's really the only power we have, except maybe voting.

Arlo: Shows Gamefly Me: *has Gamefly commercial flashbacks*

We have healed

Honestly, I want to play all the Paper Mario games, because I’ve only played Origami King and Super, because I don’t have a Wii U.

That Splatoon analogy.... really got to me. If it _wasn’t_ obvious, I’m a Splatoon fan, love it to bits. I think of myself as civil and an open discussioner, tried to have a discussion with a friend about Origami King, but he kept putting words in my mouth when I was just playing devil’s advocate. I understand both sides, even though I’m a critic. To see the series you love change for the worse and continue to stick to what’s not working while constantly criticized and insulted for liking how it originally was......... sounds like hell. To be shunned because you care about it and want it to be the best it can.... god it sounds horrible. I’m not a huge Paper Mario fan, but I am a Nintendo lover and I know and care about nearly all of their IP’s. A series I _was_ a huge fan of, one that brought so many amazing, unforgettable memories for me, was the Mario & Luigi series. It... it’s really important to me for so many reasons, so I can understand how others can have that same feeling towards the Paper Mario series. I want Paper Mario to truly embrace its past, make Mario Story 4. That’s what I want, and I think many others. I don’t want another Mario series to disappear... this is the biggest one left..... Love what you love, and be civil when discussing your opinions

You know who's a REAL fan? Air Man from Megaman 2.

Twitter once again proving that it's the worst, most vile, and trashiest place on the internet.

When in Arlo accidentally makes a Paper Mario metaphor for US political discord in 2020.

"this is elementary school yard level pettiness." Yup! that sums up most adults nowadays as well

“a company that’s abusive to its employees” *activision & blizzard logos on screen* DAM RITE ARLO thank u for calling them out haha

As a fan of both the old *and* new games, I have to agree. I've stayed away from any and all public discussion of it because there's always someone who takes it way too seriously. It's tiring and frustrating and just needs to stop.

This topic sums up Twitter arguments as a whole

“You’re not a REAL fan!” The phrase that keeps all reboot lovers awake at night.

Arlo is essentially trying to say "some just want to watch the world burn."

I'll keep listening to your Paper Mario chats regardless and I'll respect yours and any other person's opinions. Love the original trilogy, love the modern trilogy, hate the originals, hate the moderns, that's okay. I just like listening to Paper Mario stuff.

As a Sonic fan, this situation seems disturbingly familiar....

From what I can tell from the thumbnail, talking about Paper Mario is like the discussion of Star Wars nowadays.

I've never related to a a title less because 99% of my paper mario info and discussion comes from Arlo videos, also known as dopamine machines Now that I've watched it I wish this video was required viewing for absolutely everyone on the internet

Shock! SHOCK! That a platform like Twitter, that literally has a character limit that necessitates overgeneralizations and "hot takes", should result in polarized discussions where neither side is able to engage in subtlety or nuance... (Pssst! The medium IS the message...)

I think this video can be applied to many arguments I see online. With the internet its very easy to put your opposition into a generalized group and essentially ignoring their arguments instead of having a conversation. Your Splatoon example was amazing and would happen without a doubt. I think this is more of a problem with how the internet works, and how easy it is to stay rooted in your own opinion as long as you have others that share it. On the flip side it's extremely hard to openly change your opinion without being scrutinized by all the people you once talked to on your old side.

As someone who loves both TTYD and Origami King for their individual merits, this is a heavily relatable video.

Anternate Title: “Twitter”

This is how i feel about the Luigi's Mansion series. I love three and all but I kind of just want a game more like the first one. With the creepy atmosphere, one mansion, one theme, etc.

Here's a compromise that I'm sure everyone can agree on: *everyone is entitled to their opinions.*

"You're blinded by nostalgia" is such a cop out argument, how about you criticise what I've actually put forward rather than disregarding my opinion entirely

The moral of this story is to not spend so much time on social media.

I've only played Paper Mario: The Origami King, and yet, I'm still on the side of the critics. I'm not blinded by nostalgia, I've heard a lot of classic Paper Mario fans talk about the issues with the new games, and them talking about what was great about the old ones. And I'm genuinely interested in getting the old games. It's not like I'm the only person like this, there are probably hundreds of people who only played the new ones but are more interested in the old games.

"The Pokémon fanbase is NOT toxic." Me, who gets harassed by Pokémon fans almost every single day because of my opinions on modern Pokémon: (screams with derisive laughter)

The one thing I’m tired hearing from critics (and you even said it in the video) “You like the new games? You must have not played the old ones, or you played the new ones first.” I see it so much, anytime I want to talk about them, I always preface how I started with The Thousand Year Door, it’s one of my favorites, and how I enjoy every game in the series. Being a fan of all of the games can be hard, because people want to keep throwing you into on group or another.

So what you’re saying is that both extreme sides of the argument boils down to “Nope, you are nitpicking and biased, I win, bye bye”

Everyone: at war over the games Me who likes all the games: :I

I stand by voting with one's dollar. I've not bought any Paper Mario's past the first 3. Once they stopped world building and decentivised combat, I made a decision to watch Nintendo more closely and stop purchasing things blindly. So, I've not bought much lately. That's just poor game design, plain and simple.