Live testing with Amy the Spark

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Following on from our unboxing and dead testing, this last episode in our three-part mini drama sees us using the TIS MFT Eco for some live testing shenanigans.
Chapters:
00:00 Ze
03:33 Zs
11:44 RCD
16:47 Other tests
17:06 Help screens
Errata: At 2:07 we record the fault current (PFC) taken as part of the Ze test. The PFC should be measured with the main earth reconnected to the MET of course as you do want any parallel paths included. Parallel paths have the potential to raise the fault current by reducing the external impedance.
A typo on my Excel schedule of test results: the IR column should show MΩ as the units, not Ω.
At 12:30, I say the RCD tests should be run for Type AC and Type A if you have a Type A device, however BS7671 only requires verification of the AC function and that's the result to be recorded. If you use an MFT to run other tests beyond what 7671 requires (Type-A, Type-B, Type-F), the numbers may come back differently, however that may be permitted depending on how the MFT performs the test and the product testing requirements of the device. If it passes the AC tests but appears to fail under different testing functions, seek advice from the manufacturer support line before writing the device off as a failure. More information on this can be found on eFixx here: • TYPE A RCDs ❌ Why does...
This video is subject to the same lengthy disclaimer that can be found in video 2: Dead Testing.
Links:
Amy's video showing two-lead no-trip testing with the MFT Eco:
• Testing with David Savery
Related videos:
Part 1: • MFT-Eco unboxing and m...
Part 2: • Dead testing with Amy ...
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Опубликовано:

5 июл 2024

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Комментарии : 86

@stupot_64 2 года назад

Nice of you to give the tester to Amy.

@dsesuk 2 года назад

It needed to go somewhere it would be used.

@NivagSwerdna 2 года назад

Warms the cockles of your heart. Good one. (I bet he never would have given Nige one)

@darrenb4253 2 года назад

So kind of you David! Not only Giving Amy that MFT but most importantly giving the future of our industry "us youngsters" a piece of your wealth of knowledge... Albeit dry and... waffly. Thank You once again!

@rsdelectrical 2 года назад

Touch of class Dave giving Amy that tester you can see how much she appreciated it 👏🏻

@Andrewausfa 2 года назад

That was great, I only play with old radios, oscilloscopes and stuff but I always watch your videos as they're very useful in the understanding of your side of electricals. Amy looked well chuffed with her present, nice one.

@melodious1750 2 года назад

I was so hoping you would give that tester to Amy and you did, what a guy, hats off to you.

@conlon861 2 года назад

Absolute legend dave, you would make a great electrical tutor with the knowledge and humour 👍

@n4thb4dc0 2 года назад

Dave what a great guy, giving Amy the tester, your a legend

@Tomoose1985 2 года назад

Another great couple of videos Davo! So nice to have Amy along too. Great stuff, thanks for taking the time, we really do appreciate it! 👍🏻

@Gazdavies6 2 года назад

Another hour and half gone listening to you twaddle on!! Very well put together and helpful as an adult apprentice as a bit of reference vid. Very kind of you to give Amy the mft. Was hoping you would. Good man. Coffee on its way to you sir.

@cranefamily 2 года назад

Kind Soul ,great video everyone needs a leg up at sometime, I am sure Amy will do the same for one of her apprentices in the future 😊

@blahh397 2 года назад

Soft round of applause Dave - well done. Lovely set of videos and what an excellent way to finish. I look forward to seeing Amy using it in her videos too.

@richardhennessy7684 2 года назад

Terrific gesture at the end there mate and passing on some brilliant tips along the way top man 👍👍

@chema_lopez 2 года назад

Hi Dave , always looking forward to watching your next video! Regards. Chema

@matthewdale956 2 года назад

Nice gesture to give Amy the tester at the end…..fair play 😊

@tomgriffin286 2 года назад

Absolutely fantastic of you Dave to give Amy the tester.

@johntaylorelectricalservic8045 2 года назад

Well done Dave, Amy was really touch by your generosity 👍

@Dog-whisperer7494 2 года назад

Brilliant, David you and Amy work well together, great to see you sharing your knowledge with Amy 👍👍👍👍👍👍❤️⚡️⭐️

@henrybartlett1986 2 года назад

These are really useful. Thanks for posting.

@dannyboisparky 2 года назад

Nice testing series with Amy. I like most TIS stuff but not a fan of their mft, mainly because of the strap as I do have my tester around my neck. I’m a Fluke man myself but will soon be getting my hands on the kewtech kt66, the spec on that looks amazing

@davidcross30 2 года назад

Loving the series. Another great one thanks again Dave and Amy 🤙

@davidcross30 2 года назад

And a great ending to the vid too 🥰

@dsesuk 2 года назад

@@davidcross30 Cheers David!

@jonhosier356 2 года назад

Another great in depth video. Nice touch at the end. Proper legend 👍🏻🍺

@haydnhenley6553 2 года назад

That was a really nice touch David! thank you for another informative vid too! I've always stuck with Fluke MFT's...you keep making me question if i should diversify lol!

@dsesuk 2 года назад

It's often best to stick to the brand you're comfortable with, or at least try-before-you-buy if you are switching into new and unfamiliar territory! That said, for too long there has been this whole Fluke vs. Megger thing like that's the black-and-white choice you have when there are actually many other brands out there all with fine instruments for consideration!

@matthewbolton4063 2 года назад

real quality touch to end that episode giving away your tester like that, top bloke ! your electrical knowledge is crazy good , think you got the likes of thomas nagy and artisan beat lol and that takes some doing !! their top notch sparks to say the least.

@stevieb8990 2 года назад

Nice touch on the tester, keep the vids coming, keep it real Dave :)

@gino2465 2 года назад

what a great guy you are , helping people fantastic.

@riklowe 2 года назад

Top man - great gesture - well done

@sstorholm 2 года назад

Very nice of you to give that MFT to Amy! One thing I’ve always wondered about, how does the meter go about measuring the loop impedance? If I’ve understood things correctly, the prospective fault current is just calculated, but it still has to drive quite some current to essentially measure the impedance all the way to the transformer windings and back, especially if you’re on a TT? It would be very interesting to connect two multimeters and see what voltage and current passes out of the MFT while the test is run. Another thing I also started wondering about, how would you measure the equivalent in an off grid setup, say a solar inverter?

@swirlingmurk5342 2 года назад

also, something absent from the model form 'schedule of tests' (I write down if it's a complex installation); a box for the upstream OCPD that's protecting the supply coming in.

@davidwinch57 2 года назад

Hi Dave Always look forward to your post. Would you know when twin and earth changed from white to grey red and black Thanks

@geraldelwood9660 2 года назад

I thought the need to satisfy the tabulated Max Zs values had been dispensed with provided the circuit is protected by a properly functioning RCD and the circuit has suitable overload (LtoN) protection. i.e. TN systems are now treated the same as a TT system.

@RichardArblaster 2 года назад

Great video 😎

@muzikman2008 2 года назад

Dave Savery...Hard on the outside...soft on the inside...top man! 😎👌

@tavislucaso 2 года назад

Just in time for my 2391

@gd-bq7em 2 года назад

Hi David can I pick your brains question about the old main head incomers The one I have seen is green its old and there was no security tags on it so had a look it looks like it has a kind of 3036 fuse inside How do you go about a consumer unit change and certification because it has no type or fuse size written anywhere on it. Are they still okay to be left in service or do they need changing by the dno. Thanks

@qwertycat741 2 года назад

pfft that thing doesnt hold a candle to my maplin voltmeter

@pwaelectricalltd29 2 года назад

The max circuit Zs values on the forms being shown at 95% from the Regs book, rather than 80% from the On-site Guide is just another IET stupidity, along with several others that you pointed out in this video.

@mbinstallations3484 2 года назад

The metrel mi3152 also has the auto test like the TIS nice bit of kit if you can get your hand on one to have a play it also throws in an IR test on the L-PE and N-PE at the end (there is a pause so you can disconnect at the board first) it has way more functions on this tester than I will ever use!

@dsesuk 2 года назад

That Metrel looks like a good high-end instrument (and therefore not one I'll ever be able to afford!) You really need to choose wisely when shopping around for a tester I find. It's that balance between not paying for features you'll never need and not buying something that lacks a function you may find you later require. A lot of the new machines have EV functions - something the new firmware of the MFT Pro offers that my older model won't support which is why the nice TIS chap was offering me a swap-out, but EV isn't something I want to go into. I may regret that if I did decide to add it as a string to my bow!

@mbinstallations3484 2 года назад

Yeah made the mistake of buying a 2nd hand tester that didn't have Al the functionality I wanted and regretted it within a week, ev is something I'm intrested in and liked that the metrel can get firmware updates for new features, almost got the TIS but your video about the test button being on the right made me think twice but it was a toss up over the 2.

@dsesuk 2 года назад

@@mbinstallations3484 That test-button-on-the-right thang doesn't bother me too much. I presume mine had the button-probe lead originally and it got lost by the time I bought it second-hand. If I'd have had that, chances are I would have got used to using it and relied on the button built into the instrument a lot less. But it doesn't really slow me down.

@Swwils 2 года назад

@@dsesuk surely you will have plenty of messed up EV installs to fix soon enough.

@andrewcadby 2 года назад

10.00 Besides App.15, we have 433.3.1 (ii): A device for protection against overload need not be provided: (ii) for a conductor which, because of the characteristics of the load or the supply, is not likely to carry overload current, provided that the conductor is protected against fault current in accordance with the requirements of Section 434. In the case of a double socket, I believe the load is not expected to exceed 20A for any length of time (supposedly BS1363 double sockets are tested to take a steady 20A). As long as the cable is rated to take =>20A, and it meets adiabatic requirements (which a 1.5mm, or even 1.0mm CPC will for a 32A 60898 breaker) then the cable is considered protected for both overload and fault current, at least by regulations. I guess it might be possible to put a nail through both line and neutral in such a way as to cause a weak fault that mimics an overload, but it's unlikely, and I doubt it would stay that way for long. After nearly 80 years of spurs on ring finals, I'd say the arrangement has been well and truly tested and we'd know by now if it was a problem.

@dsesuk 2 года назад

Yeah, the problem comes not with the socket on the end, but when this arrangement is used to supply power to the new extension, outbuilding, loft conversion or whatever. Even if you fuse it down at the far end to supply multiple outlets, once that cable is buried in the fabric of the building the old nail thing becomes a risk. I dunno, I just don't like it. It goes against the whole OCPD must be lower than the CCC thing which every other circuit is required to meet.

@andrewcadby 2 года назад

@@dsesuk I'm not sure how such a fault could exist for any length of time David, even if you created it intentionally. The fault would have to be between L and N only (E fault would trip RCD), be of high enough resistance that it didn't disconnect in 4600W concentrated in a point the size of a nail head, or the heat from 92 50W halogen GU10's. And we all know how hot those get ;) I can't see such a fault not self destructing one way or another, PDQ

@soyebmankda8387 2 года назад

Legend I'm waiting for the video with Jordan and Cory from Artisan with Nige aswell Sparks fly it'll be lingering smells

@alunroberts1439 2 года назад

What was the brand of battery's you was speaking about.

@dsesuk 2 года назад

Eneloop Alun: amzn.to/2Ws9nzr - really rated and made by Panasonic.

@alunroberts1439 2 года назад

@@dsesuk thanks for that I will buy some.

@peterrobinson850 2 года назад

Hi David and Amy, from an old spark from the 60's. First of all that was two really enjoyable videos and that was really generous of you to give Amy your tester, Amy will make good use of it and she's very dexterous with the old cable cutters seen Amy on her channel. This purely an academic question just to keep my old brain cells functioning, regards the 10 ohm resistor across the E-N, I've been trying to workout how it passed more than 30mA to trip the RCD beings it's on parallel with if my maths are correct resistivity of 9 metres of 1.5mm is 0.10 ohm with 0.65A from your 150w lamp, beings you a cleaver chap you may be able to but my mind rest, obviously it did but I just can't get to add up. Peter.

@dsesuk 2 года назад

Crikey, I'm not sure my brain cells are up for this either Peter! You'll have to catch me without a hangover I'm afraid. The ten Ohm resistor was the result of some trial and error to find what would allow a fan and low energy lamp to run, but not a 150W load or higher. You pass 0.65A down line and though a load of 353 Ohm (the 150W lamp). On the neutral side, the current flows down the neutral wire to the head where neutral and earth are connected together. That neutral wire has a low resistance, say 0.10 Ohm, but in parallel with that you have a 10 Ohm resistor also on the neutral and getting back to the same head via the CPC - so let's call that 10.10 Ohm. That's two resistances in parallel after the lamp, each path taking a different current with the majority flowing down the lower resistance path of the neutral. Can't say I've done the maths, but what are your numbers adding up to?

@peterrobinson850 2 года назад

@@dsesuk Hi David, Thanks for indulging me in my bit of fun, I've just had a couple of cans of amber nectar also. I got parallel resistance of 0.099 ohms a voltage drop of 0.065v across the cable resistance of 0.10 ohms giving my leakage current of 6.5mA through the 10 ohm, That what stumped me I couldn't find the 36mA there must be something I've missed. Peter.

@UberAlphaSirus 2 года назад

@@peterrobinson850 The higher the load the higher the shared current. So the resistor will leak proptional to the load applied. I have also medicated myself.

@peterrobinson850 2 года назад

@@UberAlphaSirus Hi, Yes I know that, the problem was where did that extra current come from, I did some thinking in bed and dismissed inductance and capacitive reactance due to inductance self cancelling due to current flowing in both direction and capacitance due to not being open ended, but was left with the possible extra current from the surge of the incandescent lamp on initial switch on, the only way to prove it is to fit a dimmer and see. Peter.

@dsesuk 2 года назад

@@peterrobinson850 Good call - likely a surge current as you say Peter. The resistance of the cold filament will be lower than the rating when running at operating temperature. I suspect, as you say, use of a dimmer to gradually crank it up would keep it under the trip threshold.

@Marco-mg9tv 2 года назад

Hi David I bought the TIS eco tester on the back of this review having had my tools and megger 1720 robbed from my van. Now I thought the 1720 no trip Zs test was slow but it’s paaaaaainfully effing slow on this thing. I’ve tried searching for reviews/info on MFT speed to do a Zs but inconclusive. Have you/any others got a view on a the fastest ? The Kew tech 64/65 etc looks quick but I think you have to wait 5 seconds before you can start the test while it stabilises. Itself. I had a fluke years ago which I’m sure was much faster than the megger or TIS

@dsesuk 2 года назад

Sorry to hear of the disappointment old chap. To be honest, I've not experienced a tester with a quick no-trip as both my Pro and Metrel take their sweet time. It's been so long since I used my old Fluke/Megger from back in the day, I can't recall how quick they were. I've no experience of the Kewtech, although I have got access to a 17 series Megger and an updated Metrel which may be faster. I'll have to check. Mind you, they're probably twice the price.

@Marco-mg9tv 2 года назад

@@dsesuk thanks mate. That’s Cov for you. I’ve actually got an old Robin 3 piece test kit and that thing with D- lock is pretty much instant. However it does trip some RCd’s so not much use. Fortunately the tools insurance coughed up with no hassle - is added to my PL/PI insurance with Simply Business - sounds like a plug I know but honestly they were spit on with sorting out once I’d spent a few hours uploading receipts etc.

@dsesuk 2 года назад

Bastards robbing a working man. Did they bugger up your wagon in the process?

@Marco-mg9tv 2 года назад

@@dsesukit’s a pick up they did the passenger window. The pick up areas of these things not exactly IPx4 so tester and hand tools in cab. Probably now lobbed into a hedge. Luckily power tools were in house. Scummy f@ckers

@michealplater9007 2 года назад

Higher the fault current, the bigger bang for you're buck

@swirlingmurk5342 2 года назад

wouldn't you test the L-N PFC on a high loop. Normally higher then L-E

@dsesuk 2 года назад

I must admit, we left the PSCC test out, but yes, that should have been included here. Really not sure why it wasn't. This was at the end of a long day in a very hot room which is also why we called it quits on live testing the ring and light (although when you've done one Zs test, you've kinda done them all and Amy shows the two-lead Zs in her video).

@swirlingmurk5342 2 года назад

@@dsesuk I was kiddin around, you commented on the not doing high loops on the tester :D love the videos mate, keep it up!

@davidmarsden8868 2 года назад

Poor Fluke left on the shelf again

@jessknowland102 2 года назад

I could not hear you even with the volume up all the way. However, I really liked your video and Amy is cute as hell.

@dsesuk 2 года назад

Sorry Jess, the audio issues weren't noticed until editing and despite some level tweaking, this was as good as it would get!

@jessknowland102 2 года назад

@@dsesuk No worries, thank you for responding back.

@RichardArblaster 2 года назад

Next time you're with Amy stick a giggle count on the video 😆😆😆

@dsesuk 2 года назад

A cackle-count!

@AndyK.1 2 года назад

Oww the hidden video 😀

@dsesuk 2 года назад

Lurking in the background until tomorrow evening!

@carl190379 2 года назад

Bit baffled about that multi tester your using, definitely not for me fluke is alot lot user friendly if you have all the right extras, but good video and all that.......