@@bostao4216 well its true... i have no idea about the names of the items i got... and i finished bt and got that cool ilidan dagger etc.... but i remember every single one of my wow friends... it just sucks that abortions are not done where they should instead of being done by thots who still want to ride the carrocel...
Corrupted Ashbringer? Try doing Deadmines for 5 hours and a mage getting butthurt he didn’t get the caster ring so he Needs on Smite’s Hammer and you’re a Retro Paladin
Mak'gora System is Best System. Whoever wants one particular loot, strip down to your undies, pound your chest, and punch each other until only one remains. He gets the loot.
@@JAdHum Same here. My only prio as of phase 3 is crossbow of smiting and Prestor's talisman. If I want anything else that other classes can use I'm at the bottom. Hunters had equal prio as rogues and warriors on Ony head though. I don't mind honestly, it makes sense.
Very true yeah, remember the same from Wotlk. Now in classic with my healing priest I dont care about loots or even joining mainraid over altraid, as i started bit later with raiding, but been like that from day 1 and now 6 months later im pretty much best geared heal priest, only classleader bit better maby, i passed allot of the BiS for him first that got me allot of credit which helps me get gear now allot. We use loot council (mc/ony) combo with epgp (bwl) fairly happy with that system
What else are you supposed to work towards once you finally get the thing you've spent months farming for from the last major raid of that expac? That's pretty much the as close to a finish line as you can get
You know what really grinds my gears? Doing the same instance over and over again, just hoping for a specific item to drop, and then boom! That sucker drops on the first run with your alt who has no need for it...
I caught that fish in ironforge on an alt on like the 15th cast fishing. I got the legendary drop from Ulduar on my hunter back when I was soloing it a few years ago.
Perhaps you could have specific set prio, regardless of literally any other factor for specific drops. Everything else is decided by loot council, with input from class leaders who do things like check logs and have even meetings with people from their class. Also in logs, you don't compare so much parses or damage done, but rather things like casts and positioning. If people are trying and coming to raids and doing stuff outside guild be it gathering resources for flasks or just helping do dungeons, quests etc, that should be taken into account. My idea would be that each class member is tight with their class. They understand different specs and gear that people are interested in. They give a recommendation to the loot council on who their "pick" of the week is, taking improvement and activity as a big part of consideration rather than raw damage. Loot council ultimately makes decisions, but they absolutely take into considering recommendations on things from class leaders, or just anyone who comes forth with an argument in general. Listening to the guild and being transparent would be key to a good loot council, and redistributing a lot of the work to the class leaders to understand who needs what and why and who hasn't gotten something in a while but has been seriously trying to improve. More than just raw damage should always be considered. And also having good dialogue. Like say someone simply can't come a certain raid day, but otherwise are doing just as well as the others. It's about finding a balance for what will make your raid better, and also peoples efforts. And here's the ultimate thing. If people in your guild don't want to raid unless they get loot, you are screwed anyway. People should want to come first for the fun banter, hanging out with people they like and hopefully getting a nice upgrade. That said though, no system is perfect. There will be someone or someones who cause drama, but that's why instead of involving the whole guild, they talk to a class leader first and explain their position. If a mistake is actually made, you try to rectify it with the next drop.
I was very sceptical of LC before classic, but we've run it now since day one with no drama (to me, im no officer so im lucky) but rather fair distribution and everyone has gotten geared fast enough. And thats coming as a bear, who through MC phase gets basically nothing except some fire res and eventually accuria.
My first progression EQ guild had loot council. It, honestly, was incredibly fair. The GL and his wife ran the guild but they always passed loot to who needed the biggest upgrades. We ended up being top 3 on our server for Velious, Luclin and Planes of Power. It was great
Madseason, it’s honestly amazing how every bit of background footage is perfectly correlated with what you’re talking about. You have an art of putting these together!
Theres a lot of ridiculous loot systems. The new one I'm seeing is GDKP where you PAY gold to buy loot, and if you don't pay that night whatever is paid in is 'refunded' to the remainder of the raid. He can't cover every silly loot system out there.
Sizukun That’s actually a great system in certain situations . It makes sure everyone gets something for raiding, even if it’s gold. The problem is that some hardcore no-lifers can grind gold forever and starve everyone else.
@@madseasonshow The downside is that some people will sit at the top of the list for long periods of time while waiting for THAT ONE PIECE to drop. Then everyone gets obsessed with keeping their spot so much that upgrades start getting disenchanted. No system is perfect, though.
The guild I am a part of does a combination of Free for All rolling and with a few caveats. First, you get two "premium" items and one "premium" weapon. Once you have your items, you are locked out of rolling until everyone in your role (tank, caster, healer, etc) has their items. Tier stuff is distributed based on rolls, but also trying to get people to meaningful bonuses. So if a t2 priest item drops, they favor people who already have two t2 items since the three set bonus on priest is a massive upgrade. So far it has worked out, but I think it's party because everyone does seem to more or less want everyone to be at their best.
@@k3daevin My guild runs the same, the only way it can be abused it people waiting out on MC premium to they can get a big bwl item. We have it set though that if you are locking everyone else out of loot, they will give you the item and force you to take a premium point as long as it is considered an upgrade for you (class leads make that call). Example is waiting out on brutality blade for maladath or CTS while all other people that have +1 cant roll because they took that or viskag in the past. Welp, sorry not sorry, we are upgrading that krol blade and giving you a premium point if you like it or not because they will still be able to roll on the next premium weapon. Im looking at you guy in my guild who refused to roll on 2 brut blades and vis kag.
Loot council has caused the most drama with me, I prefer rolling. Personal loot was nice change. In pugs of modern wow I get nervous when it's not personal loot.
druid here in a loot council guild, its been feeling like hell lately I get the impression im literally last in priority for everything despite making good numbers in more fights with what I have. the last druid (and officers) got 3 pieces of Stormrage in 1 night including chest and gloves, I got none, he ended up maining a warlock next raid and those pieces have not dropped since. Im not mad but im feeeling increasingly crushed the more time goes on... I dont feel like I have any control over getting anything ever
i was in that same spot a few months ago. warlock in a LC guild and i did great dps and always helped the guild. was dead last for everything. seemed the officers and then every other person were going to get geared before me. I quit for 2 months then came back transfered to whitemaine and started joining ms>os+1 runs and now im in full t2 gear... don't be in a LC guild you are getting screwed and used. trust me there is a better way.
It’s because everyone treats druids as a meme class despite being more valuable in dungeons, pvp and questing. You’re treated like a god until you start raiding. I main a Druid and plan on getting a 40 man Druid raid going to get some respect. I’m thinking about transferring servers since there aren’t enough max lvl druids on my server and I’m gonna hit 60 over the weekend
What about Suicide Kings? My classic guild is the first guild ive been in that used it, but its the best loot system I've been a part of. Everyone goes on Wep / Shared /Tier lists. When an item drops, the top person on the list can take the item, then get moved to the bottom of the list. Each list is populated by each person rolling. Your roll with dictate your original spot on the loot list. And of course, each item is given a prio. Corehound Tooth prio goes Rogue then Warr/Hunter. The only drama that has really come from this is some raiders thinking themselves better than the rest and getting butthurt when a Drakefang Talisman goes to the 3rd best warr instead of the best warr (in terms of parses).
Well and the downside of people having to "wait" to hope for their big upgrade, so if they want an upgrade at the end of the raid and they are at the top of the list, they are afraid to drop down, when its about to drop. So people dont roll and people lower get free stuff since you want your "big" upgrade.
I was in a SKG guild in Wrath and I honestly kind of liked it. Never seen it since. Not being at the top didn't always translate to having to wait an eternity for an drop because of people at the top shopping for something specific.
I agree, seen it first time in SWTOR where it shined and I cannot imagine simpler and impartial system. Whenever there is a decision making who gets loot eventually drama arrives.
I like the simple rolling. I've seen loot pass me by, mage blades, and other, then I eventuality won my mage blade and it was such a memorable experience. I won't forget it, it was so exciting waiting for that super epic piece to drop and hoping you can win that roll. All my gear, but TOEP, all other pieces came from pug's, and it was really fun and exciting winning loot this way. Loot doesn't make me agree, it makes me super happy. You have to have the right attitude.
I never played vanilla before classic, however when we started out i ended up joining a guild that seemed pretty cool, they talked about how they wanted "casual raiding" which sounded neat in my ears, however when we finally started hitting 60 they all of a sudden decided to go loot council, put 1 guy who only played for raids and gave himself all the gear "because im the main tank", and another guy who would threaten to kick you out of the guild everytime you said something he didnt like (while he would always be talking about how much of a b*tch his wife was in guild chat), and when i asked why tank were first to get head of onyxia (didnt now, never played vanilla) i was told to "STFU and accept our loot decisions", after which i questioned it i was kicked from the guild. people get weird over ingame bling man.
This sounds like the guild havoc on rattlegore us server. A guy named blackening rogue is 100% like that. So yeah don't join that guild if you on the server
I was in a guild with a loot council and admittedly I was probably very lucky. From vanilla to lich king we very very very rarely had people disagree with the choices. Like you said, it kept people engaged and in the guild longer. Every raid, for the most part, everyone got something they could use.
What you do, is say oh let’s say netherwind robes drop off nef ok? So the guild master looter goes and does a raid warning saying oh netherwind robes dropped mages roll. Everyone gets a chance to get everything. The thing is that the only people that get into that BWL are the active people that are really nice and stuff. It’s an amazing system and I love it, there is also a wishlist system for MC because at this point most people want 1 or so things, so they immediately get it if it is wishlisted and they roll on it if there is more than 1 person who wishlisted it. It’s very nice because our guild is just a group of casual really nice people. The people that aren’t nice, and are hardcore hate our raids and that’s good because we don’t want people to get pissed over not getting something.
Konfer Suicide Kings is a pretty satisfying system. Round robin to eligible/prioritized roles. Highest bidder? Bottom of list. Get loot. Miss three weeks of raid? Bottom of list. Every item that is won cycles the KSK list. You can get an item last week and be 20/44 by the next week. Highest spot? You win the next high prio item. Mix this system with a few key items being LC via a defined loot table, and you have a reasonable system.
I don't think I'd ever join a raiding guild where a rogue is raid lead or guild master tbh, unless I already knew them really well. Hard pass based on the typical personalities of rogue players
I much prefer the loot distribution in modern wow (one of the few better aspects). Personal loot that's tradeable makes so much more sense than letting the guild officers make everyone else mad with their corruption.
the only issue is if the LC decisions arent well explained because i would give all the pally healers Asuresong mageblade over mages because its a massive upgrade for them we ended up having 4 mages quit because of just giving 1 paladin the mageblade instead of a mage and i play a mage so i understood the frustration, we ended up switching over to EP/GP when BWL dropped
@@Bobis32 is a bigger upgrade for dps cause if you down a boss faster you dont need to heal that much. upgrades for healers agains dps are always secondary
@@Mahmmed-1997 All you need to find is an open and transparent loot council. We already have a list of the most desired items in each raid, with a layout on who's on track to get what piece of gear next, and keep it updated with recent loot for that player as well to make sure no ones getting ignored. Also, the discussions for distributing loot are talked about where anyone can listen and raise a question/concern if they have it. Theres gonna be drama no matter what your loot method is, but I've seen less from this than any other and the loot ends up in the right hands 100% of the time.
didnt have this issue in vanilla and didnt raid much beyond the starter raids in BC but I remember loot drama in Wrath. Our guild leader was the guy who thought he was a hardcore progression raider but our team was fairly casual in the beginning and a 10 man team. So he would try to get into 25 man raids by networking with other guilds. Of course this culminated in a 25 man ony fight at one point. The other guild was more or less the "host" of the fight since they had the majority of players present. They had a weird number system where they would deduct points based on performance, but the percentage was based solely on everyone magically performed equally. If you looked at it from a certain standpoint, it was designed to make the rich richer and the poor poorer, since the better gear you had odds were you would perform better thus anyone rolling against you would automatically start at a disadvantage when rolling. which in the end, the people with the better gear would get upgrades, widening the gap more each run. Which was fine, it was their run, their guild, their rules. The drama started when the 2H sword drops, and its between me and two warriors. Needless to say I was "under-performing" compared to them since we didnt do much raiding in the higher group numbers so their gear was definitely better than mine. Of course the drama started when, regardless of all the handicaps they placed on the loot rolls, lady luck shined on me that day and I rolled one of a handful of exceedingly high rolls which was 90+. The other two had pitiful rolls which left me the clear winner in the end. Shit straight up hit the fan and emotions ran high, with them claiming I didnt deserve the sword because I didnt meet their lofty standards, and like "they are a pug" so it should go to a "guildie". This went one for like half an hour. By their own rules, I won the sword fair and square, so it would be shitty of them to rob me of acquiring it, and my guildmates backed me the entire way. Eventually the raid leader just dropped the sword in my bags. Probably to avoid the possibility of them getting a reputation of going against their own stated loot rules. In the end, I had the 2H sword and my guild paid for all the upgrades which I do believe it had gem slots along with the berserking enchant. I still have that sword sitting in my bank on Antonidas to this day on my draenei paladin.
You are only as valuable as your word. I told in all the other hunter that i was ready to get tier 2 first and let them get the first bwl crossbow. NONE of them answer back . Now i said the same thing in discord when the gm was present with the 2 other hunter and they were suddenly very happy . Why do you think that ?
Couple of additional points I think you could have put in; With any point system that rewards activity outside of raid, what can start as a good intention to reward activity can turn into a "daily quest" type grind, either through donations or having to run dungeons. Plus dungeon running can just become a "daily" within a clique that actually only benefits a small group and not the wider Guild. Loot council can suffer some drama just from RNG. If you raid for 12 weeks and only get one TOEP drop, you're going to have some mad casters even if the "right" person wins it. Even if it isn't personal it can definitely feel it. Great video though, loot drama remains the hardest content in Classic WoW
The hardest part about being on a Loot Council in classic is figuring out whos in it for the long haul. If a good weapon goes to a weaker player, you can shrug it off because it's still an upgrade. But when it goes to someone that quits a week later, or gets poached by another guild, that's bad feels all around. I've never actually seen anyone leave because they ran out of loot to win, they just start chasing parses at that point.
Only time people will leave a guild that is doing their best to progress is if the player feels the raid makeup simply isn't skilled enough or have enough sit awareness to beat a roadblock boss; if it happens all the time you run a big risk of losing players to a diff guild that is clearing that content.
I was my guilds main tank through cataclysm (blood dk) and I remember a new recruit Ret paladin threw a shit fit when heroic akirus the worm breaker dropped, he had the heroic axe off Cho’Gall and I still had a heroic blue dungeon weapon (just horrifically unlucky with weapon drops) and my guild master our main healer and everyone agreed I should get it, the guy literally screamed and cried over vent over that weapon... strange times...
My first dkp guild i joined years ago.. I raided a new raid since my old guild fell. There was no upgrades or then i lost because i had no points. But i watched how the system worked. Then there was gloves that dropped and nobody else needed.. GM told me to bid max. I asked why. He told me to just do it... I did watch and learn how the system worked and bid 1. I got the gloves but was kicked recently after that. Left bad taste for dkp :/
Oh... that is actually how the old system worked, I think. Once you bid you lose all DKP. It's why I looked down on it for ages. Nowadays my guild uses an addon and it's just used as normal currency. However, every item has a minimum bid so you can't just bid 1 DKP for it (unless it's something low-value like ZG rares). I think it works well and I've yet to see anyone abuse it too badly. There is always some cases where people bid a little too much for an item just to make sure their competition has to use DKP for that item and won't be able to outbid them on the next.
@@Wyzai yea. Not huge fan that you need to tactic around loot like that. I like loot council with fair council which I've been lucky to witnessing or just rng cause then you can just complain the rng... no need to complain about a person. :D
@@hamppuhannu and i'm the exact opposite viewpoint. Whether you get loot or not from the boss is already an RNG in itself (ask people who farm Onyxia for months for a headpiece) and you want to add another RNG on top of that? Big nope. Loot council means I will have other people deciding whether I can have the loot or not. Also nope. DKP means if I raid actively for two weeks with no loot, I get maxed out and can have whatever item I want. That's a sweet feeling.
@@Wyzai I can respect that opinion. Its just experiences and such I think. And hey, thatswhy we have all the systems and different guilds to choose from what we like: :)
Your first point about "who is more active" doesn't really makes sense to me personally. Honestly, if a player who never spoke a word or who doesn't play 10 hours a day makes sure that he/she comes every raid night and performs just as good as (maybe even better than) the main tank and gets the roll, you can bet your sweet ass im giving him/her the loot.
Hey MadSeason, Big fan of your videos man.. I have a request I think a lot of the community will back me on. Prior to classic releasing you made a class guide.. Could you please make an updated video for the classes for TBC? Changes, new spells, main specs, what to expect kind of thing? Thank you brother! 😀
i remember my cata days that when i was over geared for the raid, i just helped other ppl just for fun. and past time i was punishing fresh dings in pvp xD and when it come to loot. if there is some one that is rolling on the same item and its bigger upgrade to them ill pass it for them
EU Horde has a Tauren tank that transferred from another server already geared, got TF on our server and moved to yet another server within hours. I am sure that list will grow in time. xD
The timing of this video couldn't have been more perfect. I just quit yesterday due to Lootcouncil and Loot (T2 Hunter Helm). Last night I lost the Cross-bow from BWL because my roll didn't show up and only two hunters were allowed to roll. I said since day 1 I will pass all loot to Hunters for the Cross-bow. I wanted it for PvP since that's what I do. I raid to help the guild but that didn't matter. I've been farming the T2 Helm for 7 damn months. 15 Raids I was the only Hunter and it didn't drop. 5 Months ago I lost it again to Lootcouncil Need(PvE) vs Need (PvP). The Cross-bow was the last nail in the coffin. Truth is I won't waste another 7 months to farm a fucking T2 helm and a Cross-bow in a game. I will wait for TBC where I can get my gear from Arenas and not let others decide for me. See you in TBC Boys :)
You sound like a whiny little flower. Been the only druid to all my ony runs since september except the one where it dropped and the pug druid won the roll. One piece of gear isn't going to make me quit
@@Fantax92 the worst part is that there is still ZG, AQ and Naxx to be released so the buffoon leaves because he didn't get the Drop before getting to do the best Vanilla Raids
In our guild a BIS item = -50% DKP. (BIS = Best In Slot) Non-BIS Main Spec get to roll then everyone else including off-spec. winners pay 100 DKP or 50 gold to bank. works well.
This is it! Players can literally fight over their loot. Engineers may get an egde over others but that proves the fact that engineer is more valuable unless you are guild crafter/skinner which should get you a special treatment.
In my past years of playing, I've never really seen a scaling roll used based on eligibility or status for loot. Maybe its a bad idea? But an idea non-the-less. Where-in if something drops, those who can use it can roll normal. If you already won something, then you can only roll /roll 1-80 for the next item you want. Win again and now you can only /roll 1-60, vs those who roll 1-100. Or maybe main tanks or raiders get to roll /roll 1-150 to get a bonus vs those who are invited in. Still provides the randomness/semi-fairness of rolls, but higher probability for those who need/deserve it more
Seems like a hassle. The +1 system is already a thing: If you get loot, you have low priority. That means if someone else who doesn't have +1 rolls for loot you lose by default. Then, when everyone already has one item from that run, you roll normally. Second win the whole thing starts again.
My guild lootcouncils, and it's a guild that has been around for years before I joined it in Classic. They seem to heavily favor loot to their old members, two of their old guildies came along months after we started raiding, rolled locks and they started to get pretty much all loot, and have passed me gearwise now. They both got Neltharion's Tear first as well.
Dude same here- I’ve seen 4 Tears as a warlock and lost all of them to loot council BS. I even left my last guild and joined one with friends thinking I’d get a tear this time. NOPE. I feel your pain.
U dont get somth, u are mad, u switch guild... in this guild u are new, why ever should they give you something with prio when u left the last guild because of this? Btw i do lootcouncil in our guild.(i still wait for a wep for my warrior cause i gave them to the other warriors first, first dft got our feral, which also has hand of rag ;)) Ppl like u get red flagged and kicked if they cry about loot they think they deserve more. other ppl maybe raid longer and did more for the guild. U dont join and demand something lol
In my book the loot council favors players that know things for the most and minmax. Exactly how it was in private servers as well. Warlocks need tear first over mages because they may not get next drop in months when new main raid drops out and as lock you are put in tanking twin emperors with shadow resistance gear and a little spell hit.
DKP also has to be implemented in such a way, that it gives good points for attending progression raids, and learning new bosses. If not, you'll suddenly find that a lot of members are "busy" on those raid nights. Then once you are close to beating the boss, everyone wants in again. And those who were there, for all those nights of wiping, might just find themselves get shifted out for people who just happened to be "busy" in recent weeks, with the excuse "Could you sit out tonight please, so Sunderpants can play, he haven't had time to raid in weeks".
I was always lucky in this regard. We had all been friends for so long, and had only a trickle of drama until the end. Just little things. But, people would always pass, based on need or even performance. We did end up splitting because of “extra farm days” after everyone was burned out in Sunwell. My WoTLK guild was super casual time wise, but kicked serious ass. And had only one or two trouble makers and burned out after server first Algalon. I was tiring of the game at this point and that was that. I trained up a replacement MT and said goodbye.
There is another system, the 'soft reserve' system. Before a raid, when you sign up, each raider can 'soft reserve' one item from that raid. If that item drops, only people who reserved it can roll on it. Highest roll wins. If you are the only one that reserves an item and it drops, its yours. If an item drops that has not been reserved, then it's a MS>OS free roll.
Nah, it takes away something imo. I played with dkp in vanilla and for some time now in classic. Then when we merged with another guild we decided to go with LC. Our lc take attendence, performance, current gear among the pool for each item, if a player only has a few loots they will need on because not going for tier etc. Example, if a shaman decides to stay 8/8 earthfury to gear other shamans and at the same time keep the setbonus, mabye he can get prio on certain offtier items. For us i feel it works pretty well, though transparency could be better sometimes so everyone knows why the "other guy" got the item instead of you.
We've gotten 1 mace from Nefarian after 5 (or was it 6?) kills...it went to a boomkin since we use DKP. I've never felt so conflicted over a game for a week straight in my life, but I guess there's always a first...
So i am playing on a german server and i think we have one of the best loot systems and people should do it that way too. Each class has an own teamspeak channel and before the raid everyone discusses who should get it next. So many people are just pissed because they are not cummunicating. Also we got an item list for each class and for items which can be useful for more classes. Everyone has the mentality that when something is a bigger upgrade for someone he should get it. We are 120 members and i think in the last 2 months 2 people left the guild who where actively raiding. Also we got a forum where everyone gives in their item wish and priolist. People are forgetting what it means to b in a guild and care for it. They were helping me to farm brd drops hand of justice and the chest for 2 weeks straight everyday and they were just happy for me i got it. In return i help them out if i am not pvping. ❤️
In the first months of classic, my guild had a ret pally who was fun to talk to in discord. We liked him so we let him dkp bid on bonereaver's edge (there''s a lot of talk about changing loot for BWL). He beats our raid leader and suddenly gets real opinionated on how loot is distributed. Like we shouldn't help our raid leader make Hand of Rag. That money could go to lion heart helms, and he would obviously get one. His hypocrisy gets pointed out and he a few weeks later he quits the game saying its too easy. Fortunately my guild has gotten 2 more Bonereavers, but ret pallies have been a hard no ever since.
If I ran a guild I'd ideally like to just use need before greed. Id only recruit mature, decent people who should be trusted to only need stuff they genuinely need. its a shame people are so scummy.
Loot Council is about the classes (for me, I was playing a Rogue) So we had a thing called WISHLIST for each class, I swear to god this was so good. You made a spreadsheet and the person next on that item that dropped, gets the loot. OMG its so fucking simple and I loved it. Now in a guild with /roll and EPGP, don't ask its confusing...
I had the extreme fortune of joining a Classic WoW guild with plenty of RL friends in it, and many of them were Officers/Loot Council in our guild. You'd think this would be ripe for abuse, but it was actually the most fair loot council I've ever seen. There were barely any issues and we had one of the most tight-knit groups of 40 people on the server. It created a great raiding atmosphere where a lot of times people would pass on items they won because they thought it'd be better for someone else, and everyone was cool with it. Unfortunately a lot of them burnt out, but we had an amicable guild dissolution. It was a great 6 months.
My semi-casual progression guild is loot council on set pcs. and dkp on everything else. So far it's worked out great! However we seem to be lucky being a daytime raiding guild and having older members. All of our classes seem to work closely on the needs to each and try to obtain what they want. Even the rogues and warriors work together on specific pcs. Nice world compared to when I originally played.
Pretty unfortunate I lost motivation to play due to guild drama/loot drama. Can't even clear MC around 2 hours due to too much people having drama and talking shit on Discord lol. Grind to 60 was more enjoyable on my warrior than trying to gear him up.
My guild runs a loot council and drama emerges because half the council wants to distribute loot equally to reward everyone while the other half wants to reward effort and put loot where it does the most good.
I liked Loot Council back in my vanilla days... My guild had a system of seniority where the most prolific members would generally get new tier loot first, but after they got something they'd immediately be put on the back burner and someone else in that class would get the next item if they wanted it. Everyone essentially had a list of items they specifically wanted and anyone with the item on their list had immediate priority over those who didn't, unless the upgrade was significant enough for everyone to feel it was for the greater good to go elsewhere. We actually didn't have too much drama over it, so we might have gotten lucky.
I feel like the best way to go about looting is just making it random. If you find a sword on a raid boss, round up all of the people that can use said sword, then randomly pick between them all. Whoever wins, take them out of the rotation until everyone has gotten one
As criticized as it is, personal loot has been the end of loot drama and a boost to raid speed. Of course, progression Guilds got the short end of the stick because they can't strategize loot distribution. My proposal would be for personal loot to stay and for legendaries to become a temporary item (sort of buff) that Guilds can plan about, farm, craft and distribute on raid nights to roles/players they see fit.
we just whispered the Raid leader GM our Dkp bid and he would announce who won lol I got Deaths Verdict 25 blew all my dkp on it was like Kyeema WTF you better increase your Dps
This whole discussion of loot's value just reminded me of that scene from Isle of Dogs. Dog 1: 'Is it worth it?' (Pulls back cloth, revealing Corrupted Ashbringer) Dog 2: 'Yup. It's worth it.' (An entire pack of dogs begins tearing each other apart)
My WoW guild uses a Prio-based Silent DKP Bidding system, where we put in a single bid and it goes against everyone else's for the item - only the loot master sees the bids. Some items always have Prio for certain classes, like Slavemaker always going to Hunters before Stat-stick rolls are taken into consideration. Nobody knows who is bidding on the item, so 'passing' items just straight up doesn't work. I can always bid higher if I really want/need a piece of gear. The only issue I have with it is that I get anxious for how much I should bid, but it's very fair.
Man, Loot was always drama. I do admit, we all have been younger…. In my chase, i was about 15 years old as it all started. Gold was hard to come by and no one had blue items. Even the pro guilds looked like freaking garbagebags. Seeing blues or purples turned the coolest dude into an moron. Even in guilds. It was not uncommon to get your Loot through DKP or Council and quit the guild seconds after…. Even rejoining was a thing back than. It was wild. Talking your guild down for gold donations (first Mount) an „iam out“. It took me months to pay back my depths for that reason.
As a former hardcore player on pservers (I've been raiding with Salad Bakers and Rising which you may have heard about) who's also been a member of the Loot Council (in Rising) we've always been using this way to distribute loot because it was the fairest and most efficient way of handling it. As long as the Council isn't corrupted (which'd be a death sentence for "known" guilds on those pservers). I'd still prefer it up to this day. Edit: This is a very niche problem but what'll also occur with DKP-like systems of handling loot are the 4 Horsemen in Naxx: You best get 8 warriors to 4/9 T3 ASAP to get that hit bonus on taunt. Furies likely don't want to spend their DKP on off set items they're using in 1 fight only.
Loot Council or bust. DKP is trash. I've been in so many guilds over the years in various mmorpgs that used DKP. Always resulted in people colluding. It's not a matter of "If" they will collude, THEY WILL ALWAYS COLLUDE
I mean yeah this other tank who sitting home and playing whole day might think that he deserve the item more ... But is it fair im not sure . What if this other Tank dont have the time anymore he had to go to work and give his free time to his family and he has to be punished for that ? Hmm dont think so ... DKP System is sh1t , EPGP System is Sh1t And for Loot Consil plz bro you know that sh1t that all the GM friends and There alts will be geared before you gear 1 Hero ... DPS system is trash because GM's can give free points to his friends and he will i asure you ... One night i was just playing battle grounds while message apears : Gringo gain 50 DKP because he is sexy ... I mean come on dude ... People go and farm raids to be able to take some piece of loot and they believe in this retarded system mhm sure ... And some guy thinks " Hmm i farmed 35 DKP last raids i should be able to get something next raid . And when he go there the GM Friend take the item because he has more DKP because "He is Sexy" yeah very fair system for sure . Same think with EPGP Prioritets and Loot Consil . Hmmm i wonder if GM friend need the Dagger from Molten Core or you the random member of the guild . What the GM will do give the item to you or his friend .... Yeah LOOT CONSIL SO FAIR !!! or Prioritets , When GM tell you hey you wasnt on 1 raid you have less prio on this and i will give it to Steve he is allways here for us ....bla bla bla .. And you Tell him but Steve was not on last two raids ... And GM start yelling at you to not tell him what is right and what is not ... This is just bullsh1t system's made from ashole to make Ninja Loot Legal .... ( The Loot Consil Can only be fair if you are 25 -30 friends with no new members in(witch is immposible)) so yeah thats it.
Loot council blows. Only world first guilds need LC. Every single LC guild I've been in on private servers eventually broke due to loot drama. We have an all-in DKP system so you know going in you don't get rewards for being a guild master, class leader, flasking, #1 parse, getting every world buff, etc. Its a modified version of suicide kings. The system leans heavily towards each individual knowing what gear is BIS. We free roll if nobody spends DKP with a limit of one per raid. Hoarding DKP is really treated harshly so not worth it unless your class has BIS in 5/10 mans or PVP. Gear distribution is amazingly equal and we don't have attrition from one person getting all the loot. Thankfully classic is much easier than pservers so you can do fine with once-a-week logins. Even meme specs are fine and treated the same as everyone else.
Tank loot is WEIRD. With the release of AQ, i got prio'd all the tier-pieces, and had everything i wanted from AQ40 within 3 weeks. Then i raid with my guild for months without any loot from AQ at all. At least the stuff from naxx will be a little different, since the dreadnought tokens aren't undisputably the biggest upgrade the raid can recieve, like the conqueror's pieces are.
