Lore Lodge ADMITS HE PLAGIARIZED And GETS STOMPED In Debate HE PAID FOR!!! 

And then he mald saying he wasn’t rich later like bro is so confused

Bragging about your money is one of the easiest ways to get me to stop listening to someone trying to prove a point. Sorta like if someone just drops from nowhere "Well, I'm a double-secret ultra black belt, and that's why I don't (fill in the blank)".

@@aegea4661 an insightful comment, thank You!

Yes.

Legendary.

@@PuppyFromTheAltbecause he doesn’t do his research. Duh.

shit got me howling bro weakest insult a guy who's single could hurl

Source: "I'm married" will never not be funny

Whatifalthist "Don't read anything published after 1935" energy.

He’s talking about genuine citation styles but he’s not using them correctly in the video. You can just put citations in the video as you talk, it’s not hard. Have it pop up as you go or put up a little number that corresponds to a bunch of end notes. And no just slapping a bunch of sources at the end isn’t going to cut it, they need to be directly tied to arguments and facts stated in the body. The video needs to be able to stand on its own out of context; and people should be able to see where the information came from the video alone.

​@@coreyander286 Yeah, he seems like a guy who has a lot of "this is old, thus better, but don't ask why or think about it" outlooks.

Fiq's here. Glad someone's seeing this.

What is this a crossover episode???

Wow, FDsignifire is here. Awesome.

Love you, FD. Just finding out how dirty LL is, and it's uglier than I thought. Never trust a whyte xtian.

Channel hate goes hard sometimes

It's funnier because Chicago was made to help things flow. It literally goes from an introductory statement leading into the quote which is then quoted, followed by a footnote or endnote which will either be at the bottom of the page or the end of the chapter. It's meant to be out of the way so you can just keep reading and if he just put a 1-x number on screen with the corresponding source in the description it would've been fine and not interrupted the flow at all.

people who steal don't like crediting because if you do credit everything people will quickly realize how little of it you actually put together yourself. I stole this from hbomberguy.

@@OlgaZuccatiOh man, THE Tommy Tallarico is here? Tyler’s mother must be so proud.

The problem to me is it’s not a link of sources and endnotes. It’s a while ass article of the subject that I don’t want. I just want the bibliography and the citations. Aiden Mattis seems to consider the article the same thing as the video essay he did when they are not the same and need separate sources.

How mutch of the 46 pages where sources??

Yes, this would have been easily remedied this way, but Lore Lodge has a gigantic ego and Tyler exploited that heavily.

best part is, after the debate they ninja'd in a sources section into their killdozer vid description that wasn't there before, which you can see at 35:35 in tyler's og reaction

I really have to dig out my Chicago Manual of Style because I must of glossed over the section on how you can just do whatever if you’re a historian. 😂

Funny, since I just watched "the Korean War by indy neidell" and he always makes it clear when he's quoting sources. Same with cynical historian. I guess someone needs to inform them about lore lodge's secret technique.

Was he trying to? Aiden is like a walking Christo-fascist billboard

im confused what would have happend if he said he was jewish like would he call him a slur or would he call him greedy im confused what response to that wouldnt be horrible antisemetic

@@violetdesiree601 im sure his intent was to basically say "If you aren't a Christian or Jewish then you are not allowed to talk about the Bible!" but he's so antisemitic that it seeps into his very being.

heck, most paywalled articles put their sources outside the paywall. I'm pretty sure you can just grab any random research paper off of Google scholar and find out.

The cope posts people have shown me from their community are brutal lmao

Doubtful, dudes like him tend to be paypigs too

I've paid more for less

Even better if he just said "oh yeah you're right I should have been more clear with my sources" then he would have posted them and everyone would see just how much is plagiarized.

Yeah, as a Historian I just assumed he skipped all actual classes on historiography he may have had in his undergrad

The word he used was historicist/historicism - not that that makes a difference to his need to cite sources

Hbomberguy ended people's careers over this exact issue, while also using proper sourcing. And it was recently. So these people have zero excuse to not at least have a clearly readable, clearly accessible sources list, even using Chicago style citation. Just put a number on the screen that matches the number in the document, and do it every single time. It's not hard.

@@Skelethin agreed

@@Skelethin hell, I barely learned how to properly format my citations once a classmate showed me a web resource that you can just fill in the blanks of the source and it spits the citation back out in Chicago, MLA APA formats all at the same time. It’s been easy for years, the only obstacles are stomaching a little necessary tedium & dodging sloth.

Iconic? 😂 you clearly don't know get out of much

@@potted-mint 🤓

@@potted-mint "get out of much"

Oh that would be absolutely amazeballs

Doubtful that Shad has the balls. Sellswords tried to reach out to Shad to settle their "dispute" like adults, because Shad's fans kept flooding his comments with threats and Shad absolutely refused to talk to him(because he knew he'd have to admit being wrong).

It just gets worse

His cohost/editor is 1000 times more professional and even admitted his mistake. Shame he attaches himself to garbage.

(Honestly editor dude, you'd be setting yourself up for success by standing on principle here and saying you want to work at a higher standard or not at all. That'd be a reputation builder.)

God I want his professor to say it’s plagiarism too.

Are you the editor guy?

@@TeagueChrystie Nah. This is a copypasta from the Discord.

@@TeagueChrystie no, it’s the new copypasta from LL in Tyler’s discord pure gold

​@@Dryym 😂👍🏻

Alright@@user-oj7uc8tw9r , I’ll just be straight up with you. You accused me of legal threats. We did not threaten legally. We came to you in good faith to try and explain the issue. If this doesn’t stop, we have to go the legal route with a cease and desist as this constitutes defamation with intent to cause material harm. That’s the last I’m saying. Next time you hear from me, it’ll come from a lawyer.

The bibliography is a part of the essay. This guy thought it was a good idea to earn money TWICE for the bibliography! I have never seen a RU-vidr take the EA approach with his sources. Something that was supposed to be part of the base game was removed and sold as DLC, what the fuck!?

Also he really should have said if he used standard or modified Chicago, many of the editions have like half a dozen modified versions at least.

I'm sorry, what's happening here? I'm a little lost

@@He-who-wakes Dude plagiarizes and steals lots of other people's work on his "documentaries"

@@EphemeralCreature0 ah

Funny thing is that I think I’m subbed to Lore Lodge since I like paranormal and supernatural stories, but after this, he’s lucky if I simply unsubscribe and not stick around to annoy the living heck outta him for how bad he looks here.

@@He-who-wakes Basically, Lore Lodge is the laziest member of the Wendigoon circle of video essayists, and his research largely consists of reading wikipedia and watching previous youtube videos on the topics he cover. His videos then largely consists of cheap licensed B-roll footage peppered with screenshots from other videos, in this case a documentary called Threads. In the case here, Tyler was about to watch the Lore Lodge Killdozer video on stream until he stopped ten minutes in due to frustration with the lack of sources for both footage and claims. Then somebody linked him the documentary that Lore Lodge had harvested footage from, and Tyler reacted by going on a rant about the problems of plagiarism and bad sourcing on RU-vid. Now, Lore Lodge came across this 3.9k view video somehow, and while the editor of the duo had a reasonable response of "oh yeah, maybe we have been a bit lazy about putting sources on screen instead of just in the script, my bad", the scriptwriter and primary host of Lore Lodge went bananas and spent hours in the comments and then on Discord arguing with everyone how this wasn’t plagiarism because his Patreon subscribers had access to the sources from the script. Eventually he deleted some of his more egregious comments and challenged Tyler to a debate via donation. That debate is this video, where basically relies on Tyler not knowing much about historiography since he had a different degree, then basically claiming his academic background made him cite sources badly because of style rules.

bore lodge🔥calling him that from now on

It’s such an overstep and overestimation for his relationship with his professor, Imagine thinking a recommendation paper means anything other than a professor helping his student is weird.

He thought he'd get to be Wendigoon vs IPOS but no one jumped in to back him up

It's so strange that they seem to be trying to sell things that aren't actually there own. The citation and this seems strange it make me think what else they could be reselling as if its there own property

Yup. He's trying to say that historians don't use direct references. Meanwhile, all history style guides require METICULOUS explanation of each statement being cited and referenced.

MamaMax situation all over again.

@@Jolis_Parsec except LL is openly a libertarian... all I'm saying is check his hard drive

100%

​@@disregardthatlook man he's just asking questions about the age of consent /s

It’s not weird, really, just very dated. Comes from the German Empire before WW1. No real reason to use it in the modern day, it’s like a doctor saying he doesn’t believe in germ theory and prefers humour theory.

He said he used Chicago

​@@thebigshepeven then, the only way Chicago works for a video (unless you're popping up an author/date reference on screen every time you source something which seems wildly impractical) is to have a bibliography but that's kind of a moot point when he paywalls the damn bibliography.

Historicism is a 19th century theoretical framework for history research. Basically it is seeing history as a hard science with strict rules and no overarching narratives besides the ones borne out through deductive observation. It’s a predecessor of historical materialism which in turn is a predecessor of postmodernism, which in turn is a predecessor of the current neohistoricist framework popular in Europe and China. American academia is still overwhelmingly postmodernist though, so I wouldn’t be shocked if he decided on historicism purely because he thinks postmodernism is too woke and materialism too pinko or something.

I doubt it. Lore Lodge seems to be the incredibly defensive type.

It entirely depended on how the host responded. Tyler was pretty chill with the few words he had with the co-host

Aidan is a malding lunatic and hyper sensitive about his image. There's no world where he stayed chill while I called him out and I prepped for that. Who else freaks the fuck out about bible quotes lmao

The only professional part was when Aiden's friend was actually talking and professionally admitting he should have done better. Tyler was actually listening to the friend but Aiden couldnt have his friend speaking because of his ego and just had to butt in and release more stupid

I feel like if the friend/editor was the primary person speaking, the conversation would've been a lot more professional and calm. Even Aiden admitted that his friend was a lot more level headed and you could absolutely see the shift in behavior from Taylor in how he treated the friend vs Aiden. Really the fact that Aiden kept going after passing the convo to his friend, who was already trying to take control and calm Aiden down, just makes him seem foolish and really let Taylor win the fight as his(Aiden's) ego was so clearly damaged.

right winger essayists don't cite shit

Wtf is happening

Evolution, Tyler. Evolution.

Exactly, because it's the crappiest, most low effort citation method imaginable.

@@user-oj7uc8tw9r I don't think it's crappy or low effort, but it's something that historians made for historians to standardize how we write. Because it's made for historians, there's no reason for anyone else to use it.

@@glanlotiel7471 Yeah, that was probably an exaggeration on my part. I just remember you get away with "author, date" using that method for in-text and I never liked that. I liked "author, page" because it's much more specific which is what MLA does. However, for history, it probably makes more sense because letters are often cited and they dont have page numbers really and the date would matter more.

@@user-oj7uc8tw9r Author Date is awful haha, my professors always guided me away from that and scolded the use of it. I was disciplined on footnotes/endnotes.

@@user-oj7uc8tw9r You use author an page only after the first time you cite the source. The point is all historical works have a source list at the end, so you are supposed to crossreference the name there. Chicago is used because historical research is incredibly source heavy, there can be dozens of footnotes on a page.

Thanks for reading!

Arrogance, mostly.

He’s a BA, I’m not shocked. More surprised he insists on being historicist in writing when his channel is so far from being grounded in scientific rigour. I had expected him to make some sort of hermeneutical methodological claim but he made none at all.

@@luxborealis My degree was also a BA. It's just not what was taught in any of my classes. He should in theory possess the skills necessary to do citation correctly. I think it's just some defense he landed on in the moment and hoped it would stick. He's probably just lazy. That or he got his BA at a school that shouldn't be accredited.

@@alslayer18 I suppose. It’s just that as someone who has been through the educational gamut in history through to a lectorate, I learned pretty soon into my first master’s programme that even if you ace a baccalaureate faculty exam, you’re only like a quarter of the way there at best when it comes to theory. So much of the historian’s craft comes from the interplay between hermeneutics, theoretical frameworks and ethical frameworks, that it can change your thinking about source material altogether. That being said, a BA should be able to cite properly, you are correct.