The Marines Malevolent were Death Guard, Crysos Morturg a loyalist Death Guard member called his company the Marines of Malevolence. It's pretty blatant.
The death eagles chapter are officially recorded as raven guard descendants but might actually originate from the emperors children. From the lexicanum: "The 34th Millennial of the Legion, also known as the Death Eagles, remained loyal to the Imperium during the conflict while retaining the purple and gold colours of their Legion"
Reboot Gigabyte: "Those Sons of the Phoenix dont seem to be sons of my brother Rogal. Explain that, Magos!" Belisarius Cawl: "Shall i also explain how the Black Templars behave way more agressive and impulsive than "normal" sons of your brother?" Reboot Gigabyte: "alright touchée. i allow them to exist." 😛
Not to mention that the Soul Drinkers are probably descendants of one of the Lost Legions :) 1.Imperial Fists was one of the Legions which ”accepted”battle brothers from the II and XI legions after their deletion, long before the Heresy. 2.Soul Drinkers are officially Imperial Fist successors, however they don’t carry the Imperial Fist geneseed and Dorn isn’t their primarch. (Soul Drinkers:Phalanx)
Soul Drinkers were also one of the few chapters who rightly said Screw The Imperium, and also rebuked Chaos. It led them to their deaths but they were right.
I personal don’t think they are traitor gene seed, I think they are related to the blood angels, but instead of drinking blood they drink “souls”. A lot of it comes down to their special ability being when they eat the flesh of their enemies they can see their memories (all space marines can do it they just do it better). Granted they don’t have the red thirst (or do they? Seems sus to me, gata get that information), nor the black rage and they don’t have retractable canines, but there are other chapters who have gotten rid of flaws in their gene seeds or manifested new ones. Lastly their iconography is a chalice (like the holy relic the blood angles have) and they got their name from the soul drinker spear, and rogal dorn wasn’t known for using spears but sanguinius was. And on top of that what imperial fist would wear purple. Alternatively it’s been suggested that they are alpha legion, and that the soul drinker is actually the pale spear of alpharius or a piece of it, and that as the information gatherers of the imperium the emperor gave them the ability to gather info even from the dead and with far more clarity then other legions. However that’s just a theory since we don’t know the flaws in the alpha legion gene seed if they have any and the only evidence is that the pale spear might be the soul drinker.
Kasati Nuon was a teran-born Night Lord who left and joined the Raven Guard, and was a commander in Corvax's scouring army. Upon their return Corvus disbanded the force, and it would make sense that Kasati, with his terran Night Lords, along with their raven bros, started the Carcharadons
Not exactly a Space Marine chapter, but the 55th Alphic Hydras is a regiment of the Tempestus Scions. They have a very good relationship with the Ultramarines, have multiple bases set up in Ultramar, and the chapter even recruits from them time to time. Their name is a variation of the world 'Alpha', and their symbol is a Hydra. Nuff said.
There's a theory running around that the Storm Wardens (the "Braveheart" chapter FFG created for the Deathwatch RPG) are successors of the World Eaters/War Hounds. A lot of it comes from the combination of their homeworld (feral world with tribal warrior culture, which the World Eaters loved), which the 88th Company of the War Hounds was operating very near to during the crusade, combat doctrine (combined arms with heavy preference for close combat) and chapter culture are quite similar to pre-Angron XIIth legion. Also there's (apparently) a little passage in one of the Deathwatch books where they have visions of a traitor Primarch questioning them on their lineage. And they buried their chapter's history after a little problem with an Enslaver infestation in M.36...
The quote was of a psyker looking into the future of the TSons Corvidae cult: “The Ravens. I see them too. The lost sons and a Raven of blood. They cry out for salvation and knowledge, but it is denied!”
@@indrickboreale7381 Because BR doesn't practice sorcery as the Thousand Sons did... Everytime Magnus tried to fix the problem the mutations only become worse and worse... Well that's my headcanom
@@georgevanderslice9720 The Rubricae only affects Thousand sons Marines who doesn't have any magical potential. Also, the Ravens were create after Ahriman's spell
You forgot the Death Eagles. They've been around since Rouge Trader, had a near identical colour scheme to the Sons of the Phoenix and were named as Emperor's children successors in one of the Horus Heresy black books.
the thing about the silver skulls is before the return of guilliman there was a great discrepancy as to their gene seed. a couple of run ins with the inquisition included. after Gman showed back up he confirmed them as ultramarines. now if Bobby G secretly kept back some gene stock for the loyalist iron warriors he accepted into his forces and they continued as a second founding chapter, I'm sure he would love to eliminate any doubt by confirming them as his sons. just a thought.
You missed the Reclaimers of Dorn, according to records, their geneseed comes from Perturabo, but they were told their Primarch was Dorn so they woudn't feel ashamed of their heritage
We Sons of the Phoenix are TOTALLY of Imperial Fist stock. I mean think about it! Imperial Fists ignores cover, our super loyal noise marines ignore cover. We're like one in the same!
People have GOT to stop equating armour color with geneseed. SOTP are a homebrew of one of GWs mini designers that was made Canon. If he says Imperial Fists, they're Imperial Fists.
Interesting thing about the Shadow Wolves; they were created by the author Aaron Dembski-Bowden for his wife Katie, after she read the first 3 Horus Heresy novels, as a homage to the Pre-Heresy Luna Wolves whom were her favourites. Though their gene-seed is still listed from Rogal Dorn, and the wolf motif is more of a homage rather than a confirmation.
Somewhere, somehow there exists a parallel universe in 40K where the Iron Warriors and their successor chapters never were insufferable assholes, kicked ass and were good boys who chugged beers with the Imperial Fists and their BFF primarchs Dorn and Perty. I can dream about this all day and no one ever can take that from me. ;__;
And on this universe, the Emperor’s Childrens understoods the fact that nothing will never be perfect with the help off theirs Iron Hands cousins and also make them understand the point off Ferrus Manus about the strenght off the flesh and so make both their dads proud and happy with their legions beeing like the 2 faces off the same coin. They also let Rylanor on a bro-trip with Bjorn
BFF primarchs Dorn and Perty. I can dream about this all day and no one ever can take that from me. ;__; --- Fanfic Fulgrimean Heresy: Death of Unity. With chapters consisting of 5000 and not 1000 marines. However the catch is that both Dorn and Perturabo died. One on Terra, another on Olypmia fighting against an invasion of fallen Ferrus Manus.
I'm convinced cawl made ALOT of primaris "traitor" geneseed space marines. I mean why not? Its stupid not to and it opens the door for so many possibilities lore wise
@@MrJara1018 even before they got the nails they were known for being very brutal and savage when they met their primarch and got the nails they just got worse.
I don’t know why all these idiots are saying they’re Iron Warriors. That comment is from 6 years ago, and not even spoken on by GW. The current lore is that they’re chimeric, aka they’re taken from every gene stock available. Traitor or not
I think it's been confirmed that Carcharadons are descendants of Corax and the Terran Raven Guard and the more vicious aspects, the Gun tribes? From modern day Polynesia. They were part of the exile fleet which is what they refer to constantly
Yes, and one of the last things the exile fleet did before heading for the outer rim was raid the night lords home system and steal a load of geneseed. Hence why people believe they have a mix
The Lamenters are successors of the Blood Angels, due to the red thirst/blackrage. As for Marines Malevolent, I'm not sure what they are. They may be sons of dorn but I'm unsure of that
I like to think that the marines malevolent are a smarter version of the angels vermilion who nullify there red thirst and black thirst through brutal slaughter. However rather than doing the blunt noticeable once every 50 year ritualistic butchering of nearly all of a group of planets they as a release valve fir both the curses they do it on a smaller scale by being brutal and well malevolent constantly in combat. It would be cool to see them like a dark counterpart to the lamentors
Sons of Antaeus - Part of the cursed Founding which had strong Chaos involvement. Known to be super resilient, even by Astartes standards, leading many to consider them to be of possible Death Guard genestock Exorcists - Heraldry shares many similarities with the Word Bearers, and their initiation rites involve possession like the Gal Vorbak, only they cast the daemon out, rather than assimilating it Brotherhood of a Thousand - Their heraldry is a giant M on a white circle, like a single eyeball... Storm Wardens - They mysteriously sealed up a huge chunk of the Chapter and purged all records of the Chapter's Founding. Blue and white heraldry, an obsession with duelling
The case of exorcists is debated if it was an attempt of Grey Knights 2.0, although nothing is clear about that, buttheir clear relationship with the daemonic, their unknown primarch and first and foremost, being mainly deployed angaist demons suggest that
Given the history of the Minotaurs along with their traditions and beliefs I would definitly see them as iron warriors. Also, that moment at 3:54 was hella badass.
My headcannon has always been that the Carcharodons were remnants of a lost primarch who fled into the depths of space, still loyal to their Emperor but ashamed of their primarch.
The Death Eagles; at the time of the Heresy Emperor's Children loyalists, currently presented as Raven Guard successors. Possibly chimeric? I can imagine as the Heresy drew to a close and then during the time of the Great Scouring gene seed vital to the survival of the 34th Millennial could have been drawn from remnants of the Shattered Legions and Blackshield warbands to be combined with Fulgrim's own.
I kinda like Iron Warrior have many alleged loyalist chapters… it speaks to their culture, their practicality and military prowess… meshes well in Imperial ideology.
The Iron Warriors had several units within the Heresy that outright refused to join the traitors… and one Grand Battalion that switched back to the loyalist banner mid-battle. Hilarious.
I've done homebrew chapters made from Traitor Gene-Seed, most notable I've done is the Steel Spectres which were Iron Warrior loyalists that their ship had to make an emergency stop out of the Warp, but it cause so much damage to the ship the survivors had to go into emergency stasis cells to wait for rescue. They didn't get found until during the time of the Dark Founding.
Well now I'm hoping Perturabo gets that daemonhood rewrite. It doesn't make sense with his current arc for him to be a daemon primarch. What would the Minotaurs do when faced with their genesire? The Space Sharks are descended from the Terran marines who were anti-revolutionary and used brutal terror tactics I believe. The ones that were too set in their ways were exiled by Corax to crusade outside the galaxy.
@@totallynotalpharius2283 Have him being the only "mortal" traitor primarch would be awesome. Or unlock his full potential like Corax did when he hunted Lorgar.
Another few primaris traitor successors are the Covenant of Fire (Word Beares but swap faith in the God Emperor for the Promethean Cult) and Necropolis Hawks (a supposed Raven Guard successor with those mutations but known for loving melee combat, *pragmatic* brutality, and relentless, if carefully measured, aggression (sounds a lot like pre-Curze Night Lords). They also had a short story in Vigilus where a squad of reivers were joking around as they slaughtered genestealer cultists, and if any chapter is known for its humor, it is the Night Lords.
Yeah I agree my custom chapter background is.. Made from the Dark angels that were sent home with Luther to recruit but remained loyalist. And since they had little experience over time. Over time they are nothing like the current Dark angels chapter successors.
Interesting tidbit about the Iron Warriors, possibly before their reunification with Perturabofrom, from one of the Horus Heresy black books. During the Crusade they were one of the few Legions who could be counted on to listen to the orders of baseline humans.
I’m making a loyalist marine chapter with iron warriors geneseed. The difference with this one being that they’re generally nice people. Marines who want to be nothing like their cruel primarch and founding legion, or even the other successor chapters with the iron warriors genestock. Off battle, they’re as humble as the Salamanders, but on the battlefield, they are every bit as iron as their founding legion. They’re the hardened shield for the people of the Imperium, the bolstered defenses for the Imperial Guard, and the unbreakable force for any enemy they deem as an enemy. And may the Emperor help you if you kill one of the civilians they protect, because nobody else will.
I don't think the Blood Ravens are descended from Magnus' gene stock, as the main problem with that is that the Blood Raven's gene seed is known as a fairly stable one, while that of the Thousand Sons suffered from the Flesh-Change. So, as all Blood Angel's successor Chapters have problems with the Black Rage and the Red Thirst, one can think all "successor Chapters" from the Thousand Sons would suffer from the same ailment. I personally think that the Blood Ravens' Primarch is Lorgar, as the thirst for knowledge is not unique from the properines, but also shared by the Word Bearers. Also, Lorgar's gene seed is faurly stable, as is the one from the Blood Ravens.
- you forgot that the blood ravens motto. "knowledge is power" words uttered by Magnus . and the fact that they are probably loyal members of the Corvidae . which literally means ravens.
I really like the idea that Sons of Antaeus are loyalist Death Guard. I know it's just fan theory since I haven't seen it anywhere official, but there's the idea that part of their augmentation causes some of them to exhibit bony growths that burst through their armor. Also would not be surprising if Cawl is using all the geneseed available to make new marines, including traitor and even the lost legions, since that's just a very logical (and thus VERY techpriest) thing to do when you need to bolster your forces to such a massive degree. I just hope it doesn't lead to some lame plot twist that he's secretly a heretek or just wrong and all the geneseed is corrupted, or something along those lines.
Cawl perfectly understand that Abaddon with his succesfull crusades damaged Imperium so badly that Astartes need rapid replenishment. Primaris marines are ideal and using traitor genes is very usefull. More marines the chance of Imperium survivability will be increased (although I am a bit pessimistic. Chaos wins 13 times in a row because Abby being a brilliant strategist and he somewhat acted like Russ. Pretending to be a failure but in reality he just winning battle after battle. Cadia aside from 13th Crusade is never been a primary target but a diversion to not allow cadians to reinforce sectors where Black Legion is operating and pursuing their goals which worked cadians being deluded from false victory but eventually when Abby's 12th target achieved. He fully ready to strike Cadia because it was the final target in Obscurus to destroy)
Gday there - I've been binge watching a bunch of your great RU-vid videos recently. Thanks for all the work you do to put them together. I've been building a squad a traitor astartes to join my World Eaters, starting with Chapters of known dubious origin. Your videos really helped me identify which Chapters - Lamenters and Mantis Warriors from Badab, Dark Wolf, Storm Lord (as per Lord Zhufor's old Chapter) and Sons of Gulliman. Would love suggestions for others - I'll need 8 eventually of course! Maybe Doom Legion next? thanks again for all the great content :-)
Something that was brought up in a couple of the Horus Heresy books was that the Raven Guard inherited the loyalist Night Lords since their tactics and gene seed were similar. These loyalists also changed their armor to represent their adopted chapter. So it would make sense for the Carcharodon chapter to be either or both since the Apothecary's would have saved the gene seed of any fallen loyalist which would have been incorporated in the new initiates during the rebuilding.
My head cannon for the Carcharodons is they are the remains of one of the lost legions. Think about it: all their battle gear is older weapons and armor patched together with newer stuff, their legion could have been exiled for the extensive mutation the marines show, and then there's Tyberos. He is huge, even bigger than the new Primaris marines! On GW size charts the only astartes bigger than Primaris and custodes are Primarchs. It was also mentioned in one of the Horus Heresy novels that Sanguinius was worried about what would happen to his sons if their geneseed continued to mutate, meaning something bad had already happened to another legion because of it.
The Blood Ravens are a Word Bearers successor. Always seeking knowledge. Hailing from the sub-sector or Aurelia and a recruiting world of Cyrene, lots of psykers and stable geneseed. Flimsier connections about other chapters of unknown founding have been made with greater effect. It's a much more interesting story than Thousand Sons successors.
I'm not sure if you would count the angels resplendent/penitent. They were marked as a blood angels successor but were free from the black rage until they changed their creed and suddenly started getting the black rage again becoming so bad they started a death company. Always seemed fishy how they could do such a 180.
Think that was because they used to be very artsy and zen/spiritual which kept the rage in check as soon as they stopped the black rage kicked in with a vengeance.
When I was considering rejoining 40k, I was planning to make a chapter of Primaris Marines using the Raven Guard rules called the Deathstalkers who were of Alpha Legion stock. Instead of a Chapter Master, they were going to be lead by a council of Chaplains hand-picked from older chapters with explicit orders to watch out for corruption and if need be, destroy the chapter if things started to turn ugly. Pretty much everything I was going to field would have either been in Phobos armour or have the ability to Deep Strike.
Thats a good candidate. Personally i think all chapters with “unknown” geneseed are either altered/mixed or are/contain traitor legion gene seed. Also a hole in the blood ravens = thousand sons theory: a squad of thousand sons that were spat out into the future from the burning of prospero were struck by the rubric when they stepped through the portal to reality, even though it had been millennia.
I love how every time a Loyalist Chapter is filled with callous and destructive jerks, everyone automatically assumes they must be related to the Iron Warriors. If we didn't know the Iron Hands came from Ferrus, I'm 100% certain everyone would've assumed they were Perturabo's estranged sons.
The problem with the blood ravens = thousand sons is this: There was a squad of thousand sons who had been fighting space wolves on prospero in a bunch of portals/pocket dimensions, and then popped out a few millennia after the rubric, and they got zapped and all but one of them became a rubric. The rubric hit the whole gene seed and will get them, even when they are cast out of time.
How about the Covenant of Fire (supposedly Salamander Successors, but possibly Word Bearers)? There's also an oddball idea that the Black Templars might have World Eater geneseed.
You missed another Horus heresy story with the bloodravens when Kharn captures one investigating the damage on prosperous. At the end they even use the key phrase "knowledge is power".
A note on the Red Scorpions. The Word Bearers actually also had extremely stable geanseed, like to the same level as the Emperor's children. I think it's also worth noting that the Red Scorpions are one of the few chapters that hold the fanatical belief in the Emperor's Godhood on like the same level as the Black Templars. They are also even more slavishly devoted to the Codex then even the Ultramarines, almost as if they are trying to compensate for something with Guilliman. Also, their armor is the same color as the pre Chaos Word Bearers. I am not saying they are for sure Word Bearers, but it would explain their huge number of apothecary's, if I was associated with Lorgar I would never want to risk anyone getting hold of the evidence of that in the form of unrecovered geanseed.
I still think Carcharodons being chimeric is what makes them so powerful, in fact I think they might be the most powerful chapter when at full strength. The reason is the fact they combine elements of fast attack with surprise and incredibly vicious close combat. In Red Tithe Night lords claim that they have never witnessed astartes who fight with such ferocity in close combat, but show utter discipline and self-control as well.
The Necropolis Hawks are another chapter that comes to mind. They're apparently Raven Guard but they *looooooooove* melee and they look like pre Heresy World Eaters/War Hounds
Way to lay out THE TRUTH brother Chapter Master! The Sharks are pure Night Lord. They don't reflect any of the shadow melding seen in Corax's sons. The way that they maintain their ships is very similar to the 8th legion.
At this point I'd be really disappointed and somewhat annoyed if the Blood Ravens turned out to NOT be descended from the Thousand Sons. Not only do I think the whole idea of loyalists from traitor legions being rolled into loyalist chapters when everything broke down, when the bread crumbs are laid out like that and they're all red herrings, that's effin lame.
Ive seen some other lore/hints that points the blood ravens to being word bearers. All the naming and characters etc from the dawn of war games is word bearers. Also theres not a single son of magnus NOT affected by the rubric of arhiman in the entire galaxy. So for me the fact they arent dusty bois is evidence enough they arent thousand sons
I thought it wasn't just Gene seed that get passed down but tactics. Which would explain why iron warrior successors are so brutal, because their fighting doctrine of their progenitor is.
Everyone knows that the Blood Ravens primarch is Trazyn the Infinite. Also, I reflavoured my personal "Birds of Paradise" space marine chapters as two seperate chaptes descending from Alpha Legion, instead of two descendants of Slamanaders.
Another point on Blood Ravens and Thousand Sons descendants-throughout I think 2 of the books you fill a the transformation of a neophyte into an astartes. Once his surgery is complete he meets with Angelos but his hands have mutated into wierd tentacle things shaped like hands...flesh change...?
Exorcists are totally Word Bearers in my opinion. Not only are they red, but they are covered in ruins and they have a chant in "dark languages" as their battle cry, they also like to play with daemons. If you didn't tell me you were talking about a loyalist chapter with that description, I would think you were talking about the best Legion, aka The Word Bearers
Personal I still want to believe they are successors of the Grey Knights but if not they are totally from loyalist Word Bearers the Imperial Fists picked up
Blood Ravens being descendants of the Thousand Sons, even though that would be kickass, as a son of Magnus myself, I think it would be a bit too far fetched. The genestock of the Thousand Sons was notoriously pretty much unsavable from their flaw, the Flesh Change, which saw battle brothers turn into screaming masses of tentacles at random, decimating the chapter, only undone temporarily by Magnus the Red more than likely making a pact with Tzeentch. Even moreso, recent lore implies that Ahriman's Rubric, the ritual that turned most of them to dust and made Rubric Marines, actually reaches into the future and past for all Thousand Sons Marines out there, meaning that Thousand Sons Marines that died in the Great Crusade, or even those that died on Prospero, and likely any marines that get made with Thousand Sons geneseed, will/were turned immediately into dust, and into rubrics, and that they can be pieced back together and serve the Thousand Sons Sorcerers. Even some crusade rules say that the Thousand Sons are undertaking missions to go out and reclaim Rubrics that were lost for millenia.
Regarding the mutations and the rubric: Wasnt there a story in the HH where the emperor offered magnus a new legion, but he had to reject his current one? It could be that the blood ravens are those new marines the emperor offered to magnus, of at least the descendants and they turned out to be immune to the rubric because of whatever the emperor did
It’s called Fury of Magnus and the Emperor implies that “you’re new legion is on Titan” meaning the Grey Knights we’re originally meant to be Magnuses new kids. Pity the Emperor didn’t understand how much the OG thousand sons meant to Magnus, even if they were undergoing the Flesh Change
I personally believe the Atlantian Spears are Alpha Legion. They're secretive. Nothing about them resembles Blood Angels, and they didnt come to the defense of Baal when Dante called. The color scheme is AWESOME, but most Blood Angel successors have some red in their scheme. The Symbol of the Trident and the name of Atlantis brings to mind Imagery of the SEA, where legends like the Leviathan and Hydra Originate.
I like idea that the Silver Skulls being Ultramarines , but some of the founding fathers of chapter where loyal Iron Warriors…… they just didn’t pass on geneseed to initiates ……. So Sliver Skulls culturally are Iron Warriors but generically Ultramarines.
I'm kind of surprised that the Imperial Fist enthusiast didn't mention anything about the Exorcists. They may be officially be of Dornian stock, but we all know that they have Word Bearers written all over them.
